squeff

I’ve been a happy DateBk user since 2001. The product is solid, fast, and is very configurable. However, with the release of Agendus 10, I decided to take a look.

What I found was an application with features and a look-and-feel that I liked better than DateBk5. While many people appreciate the “philosophy” behind DateBk5, I saw enough in Agendus 10 to warrant an evaluation.

What I found was a terribly unstable piece of software. Regular crashes, calendar items disappearing, and significant data loss accompanied the 10.0 release. Worse, no manual was made available to explain how to use the new features. Users of Iambic’s “User to User Forum” reported similar problems. Forum moderators blamed users, telling them that they were impatient, expecting too much of Iambic, and saying that there had been a beta test (presumably it was the fault of the beta testers). Beta testers replied that they HAD reported problems during the very short beta test, only to find that some issues were not resolved.

Shortly after the 10.0 release, Iambic did release a 10.01 release which fixed a decent number of issues. However, not all reported issues were resolved and additional issues were reported. The 10.01 release was still not ready, at least for some users (like myself) who need to rely on stable software to manage our calendars, to-do lists, and contacts.

Users because more vocal on the forums, with moderators and Iambic’s “Adriano” (aka “the Jedi Master”) continuing to defend Iambic. Instead of apologizing to users, they continued to blame them for being impatient. It seemed like the moderators and Iambic staff were surprised that users would expect their software to be high quality.

A 10.02 release is promised and has been since 10.01 was released and shown to be buggy. It keeps being delayed – actually, the forum moderators aren’t privy to release dates and yet they keep posting hypothetical release dates – because there are so many things to address. Kudos to Iambic for taking the time needed to fix the bugs and do some real testing. However, forum moderators and Iambic staff still maintain that 10.01 is stable and high quality. I, for one, am not sure why there needs to be a huge 10.02 release (that’s currently scheduled for release more than month after 10.01) if the software is so good. Makes you wonder, huh?

When asked about their policies regarding providing users free bug fixes, their Jedi Master, Adriano posted the following:

“Unfortunately fixing bugs for us is never free, not even for minor updates. Nonetheless we do pass minor updates (which often also have functional and usability improvements) free of charge to all same-version customers.”

It’s nice to know that Iambic is so kind as to fix SOME (but not all or even most) reported bugs for free. What this points out is that Iambic views delivering quality software as a burden. Users should not be surprised when Iambic releases buggy software because their management views quality as a cost and not an imperative. They also expect users to be grateful for any scraps that Iambic decides to throw their way.

Will Iambic fix reported bugs? Adriano apparently does not think they need to. At least not always for free. And certainly only on the schedule that Iambic feels. If it means delaying their next big release (a source of new revenue), then adding new features comes before quality.

Looking at Agendus, I see a product with a lot of potential. While it could stand a few tweaks, it’s well thought out and provides a powerful product. What kills it is that it’s not to be relied on due to bugs. If you don’t care if your calendar is correct, that your Palm data/programs are kept safe, or that alarms will go off when you set them, then Agendus is a good product. If you actually rely on your Palm to keep your life together, then stay away. It can’t be trusted. And given the attitude of Iambic towards quality, I wouldn’t expect them to address all known problems (even some very serious ones) any time soon. Maybe they’ll get around to fixing a problem when Agendus 11 comes out. Oh, but you’ll need to pay for that.

If and when Iambic decides to actually care about quality and release software that I can rely on, I’ll go to Agendus because, as I said, I like it. However, given their quality issues and their view that customers are burdens, it’s not likely.

DateBk5 may not have seen any big upgrades in years, it may not have pizzazz, and it may be lacking some nice features… but at least we know that when Pimlico Software releases something (even in a first beta) it will be of the utmost quality and can be trusted. And you know that Pimlico won’t charge you for bug fixes. Never have.

If only Pimlico’s lone developer/tester/documentation writer/customer service agent could take his talent for high quality development and team with Iambic’s inventive designers and graphic artists… you’d have a terrific piece of software.

I’ll post a more in-depth review once 10.02 comes out – assuming that it’s of a high enough quality that it can be used.

Brjlk

You can use version 9.06 which is very nice too. I have been using it for several months with no problem at all.

John

squeff

Thanks. It's good to know that Iambic is capable of delivering a solid version.

blues

I am so surprised to hear that so many people are finding version 10 so unstable. I have been using 10 since when it was in beta, and haven't come across any unstablity at all. Granted, I haven't really used alot of the advanced features that are probably causing all this, but Agendus 10 hasn't crashed once on me. Not once.

I remember when the Treo 650 came out. I read so many users on this forum, mostly others, say how unstable it was. I almost considered not buying it. Now that I have owned it for a few months, I know it's not as unstable as most people have charged. Is that's what's happening here?

Yes, I've been over to iambic and read alot of the posts there. The first version of a big upgrade like that would expect flaws. Especually within all the newly implemented stuff. But what about the basic functions? Are you experiencing problems doing the same things that DateBK can do? I'd like to see if I can reproduce some of these issues on my device.

__________________
"The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in."
— George Washington

iPod Classic 80Gig - Sony PRS 505 - Sony PRS 700 | Pa!m IIIxe - Kyo 7135 - Tungsten T3 - TRE0 600 - TRE0 650 - Tungsten E2 - TRE0 700p - Pa!m Pre

squeff

It shouldn't be a surprise that new features have problems. And I expect this. However, there's been a lot of stonewalling on certain items.

That said, here's a few "bread and butter" items that I'm personally having problems with:

* I have alarm preset turned on. In 75% of the cases, when I create an event/meeting, it doesn't come with a preset alarm.

* It takes 7-10 seconds to start. Given that a datebook/contacts program is often used to quickly look something up, having to wait 10 seconds is too long. This doesn't happen for everyone, mind you, but Iambic has admitted that this is a bug and will be fixed.

* Some entries randomly disappear. Can't say why or under what conditions.

* The trip functionality is new, but it's got several problems.

* The OTA (over the air) updates cause hard crashes, causing data loss. This appears to be specific to certain devices, but I've heard it happens to devices from both Palm and Sony.

* The Agendus Mail program crashes when deleting messages from the server. This appears to be related to Yahoo!, but the fact that it crashes (and requires a "paperclip" reset) shouldn't happen. Iambic has put on hold fixing AGM problems until they are over the hump on AG issues. There's been the suggestion of a major upgrade, so I'm hoping they'll fix this problem before they release the major upgrade ($).

* There have been several UI changes which, while most are quite good, others are head scratchers. For example, there's been a lot of complaining about the change to the time picker. Mind you, this isn't a bug. Just an unpopular design decision.

* Alarms, even when set, don't always go off. Sometimes, when they go off, they keep the device from "falling asleep" when done.

* Preferences don't always stick.

* There's some real goofiness with repeating events. Try editing an event that's in a repeat and you'll get prompted several times (Current/Future/All). And it doesn't always work. If you don't edit repeating events, then you likely won't have these problems.

Frankly, if they fixed the startup performance, the alarm preset issue, and the mysterious "gone missing" events, I'd have higher confidence. There are some design decisions which, as I said, aren't really bugs, that also need to be addressed. The OTA crashes need to be fixed, even though they may only affect certain devices, since this is critical to making 4 different functions (albeit nice-to-have) extra cost items work. Plus, losing all my Palm data is not acceptable.

wellsjs

I agree with "blues." I'm using 10.01 and the only noticable "bug" is the delay in program start, which iambic developers say has been/will be addressed in 10.02. While there is certainly room for improvement in the rollout/implementation procedures that have historically plagued iambic, Agendus Pro has been and continues to be the most useful, fun, and innovative application on my TH55. What more could you ask for than two (or more) $9.95 upgrades a year that aren't stable until X.03, but that you can't live without? At least it keeps ownership and use of a PDA interesting!

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PDA "trail" > Sharp Wizard OZ-750 > Palm M100 > Visor Deluxe > Visor Prism > Sony T665C > Sony NX80V > Sony TH55(2) > Palm Treo 700p

squeff

He He.

To answer your question "what more could you ask for?"

Well, I paid $25 (give or take) for DateBk3 in September, 2001 (4 years ago). I've received DateBk4 and DateBk5 without any additional cost (yes, they currently do charge $10 for 3-4/5). I've received bug fixes and have never had a bug that wasn't fixed before the end of a beta. Can't say what DateBk6's upgrade cost will be, but speculation is that it'll be less than $25.

If I buy Iambic Standard, it'll be $30. Then, it's another $15/year for upgrades (assuming they actually release an upgrade in a year). So, in 4 years, that'd be $90. Or, if I choose not to buy the upgrade, but to pay the $10 single-upgrade charge just 2 times, that'd still be $50.

$50 for 4 years of Agendus vs. $35 for DateBk. True, I'd get more features in Agendus (although, some of the better features are available only in Agendus Pro which ups the 4 year price to $60-$100).

My point is that Agendus costs more. It provides more features, no doubt (which is why I really want it to be stable enough to use). But at a lower quality. I guess it depends if you want (as you say) "fun" or you want a program that actually works. What more can I want? A program that provides both, without me hoping that the vendor has their hand out for another $10 so that I can get a bug fixed. Y'know?

Agendus Standard is

blues

One thing that I do agree with you about is the high price. Agendus does cost a fortune.

But I can't try to replicate or You don't have any examples that start like:
Go here, then do this, and then do this, then this bad thing happens.

Hey, we're all here to make our experience better. And if there are bugs you can post, do it. I'm sure that people at iambic are listening, especually if we have something to say. That's what will make Agendus better, and this site better. That's good for everyone.

__________________
"The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in."
— George Washington

iPod Classic 80Gig - Sony PRS 505 - Sony PRS 700 | Pa!m IIIxe - Kyo 7135 - Tungsten T3 - TRE0 600 - TRE0 650 - Tungsten E2 - TRE0 700p - Pa!m Pre

ackmondual

what's the footprint for Agenudus? Close to 2.5MB? Can you customize the installation like with Documents To Go (lose the enhanced todo or address portion of the suite)? Datebook5 is around 730KB, but better to up it to 800KB for the icons as well.

If the footprint for Agendus 10.x is even bigger than that, then that would be another consideration.

blues

I think that's an awesome idea. Agendus is extremely bloated and needs to be able to be customized like you suggested. Uninstall Manager reports it to be 2Meg on my Treo 650.

Come to think of it, I really can't stand palm installation programs like what Agendus has implemented. You can't see what your installing until it's already there.

__________________
"The reflection upon my situation and that of this army produces many an uneasy hour when all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in."
— George Washington

iPod Classic 80Gig - Sony PRS 505 - Sony PRS 700 | Pa!m IIIxe - Kyo 7135 - Tungsten T3 - TRE0 600 - TRE0 650 - Tungsten E2 - TRE0 700p - Pa!m Pre

squeff

No, it's all or nothing. Actually, that's not totally true. You can use the Standard edition or the Pro edition. However, I believe (although I'm not positive) that they are just the same code. Standard just turns off the Pro features. Caveat: I could be wrong.

You don't have to use the mail program.

But, in general, you can't strip of parts of the program.

Also, I should note that the large footprint is Iambic excuse for a 10 second start-up. They claim that any program this big should take a while to start.

squeff

* Start the program from the launcher (or from a button, if you have it mapped). Count 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississippi...

* Tap "New" icon. Tap "Meeting." Enter "Test." Tap "No Time" and enter a start/end. Tap OK. Note that there is no "alarm" icon. Confirm that alarms are turned on (Options, Preferences, Alarms, Agendus handles alarms in checked, Remind Me Twice, Play Every 5 Minutes). Confirm that preset is on (Options, Preferences, Meetings, Alarm Preset is checked, 5 minutes).

* Options, Preferences, Auto Update, Every 12 hours, 5:00pm, Confirm unchecked. Wait until 5:00pm. Device wakes. Trying to connect window appears. Clie TH55 WLAN light does not light up. Eventually time out. Gives error. Wait a few seconds. Devices resets and (sometimes) ends in endless loop. Only wait out is to reset device, erasing everything.

For example...

mcapehart

Some of you will recognize me as a proponent of Agendus. I'm actually one of those "Mods" squeff refers to.

I see many, many issues with Agendus posted. At least 90% of the time it is either software conflict or a lack of knowledge of use from the user. There are a lot of poorly written applications on the market. Agendus is built as a "one place for everything" application. It has come very close to being that.

When I say that I use Agendus, along with the Desktop application and other apps daily with very little errors or issues, I say it truthfully and without bias. It all depends on what other software you have installed and what expertise you exhibit in using it. Agendus, as great as it is has a big learning curve. With this sometimes comes unwanted, unintentional errors

Granted, many of the bugs are legit. And as Adriano said, this is true for any application. I know for a fact that bugs are being addressed immediately. Also, in addition to bugs, iambic tries their best to implement all valid Feature Requests that users come up with.

The Executives and developers at iambic are EXTREMELY concerned with Customer Service. In fact, it is their number one priority. Of course, revenues are important. Aren't they important for any "for profit" company? However, it will never replace Customer Service. They recognize that without Customer Service there will be no revenues.

One area, however where Customer Service takes a back seat is when someone goes to the company's forum and flames the company and it's employees for the sake of making an invalid point. You have no business in a public forum of this type. Your anger and accusations do nothing but make you look childish. Anyone who takes what you have to say seriously are being greatly misinformed. We welcome anyone to the iambic forum who has a valind need or even a valid complaint, but not character bashing. That's not welcomed anywhere.

If anyone has valid issues with Agendus I will gladly help you work through them.

mcapehart

Doesnt' happen for me, even on a slow LifeDrive.

Same thing required if setting up a meeting in Outlook. Maybe try setting up Templates.

Not happening for me, even with a slow LifeDrive. Maybe your Network connection is not set up properly.

For example...