Jeff Kirvin

Say it with me: it's not "Palm OS or Windows Mobile," it's "Palm OS AND Windows Mobile." Also, Palm isn't a hardware company anymore. They're a VAR, a value-added reseller. They contract with companies like HTC to design and build the devices, they license an OS from ACCESS or Microsoft, then they tweak it all into a product with that distinctive "Palm" feel and usability. That's where the money is. [details]

Watcher

C|NET: "How Palm Lost Its Grip"
By Kent Pribbernow on September 27, 2005 02:57 PM

"When viewed in conjunction with the sale of PalmSource (a Palm spin-off that now manages the Palm OS) earlier this month, it's an acceleration in the demise of the Palm OS platform and final confirmation that its once-dominant position in the broader handheld market is gone for good," said Carmi Levy, a senior research analyst at Info-Tech Research Group.

Exactly what I've been saying for the past few months. PalmOS is on its way out the door. Palm's adoption of Windows Mobile for the Treo (and many more products next year) will serve as final confirmation to both end users and developers that PalmOS is a dying platform, actually speeding to OS on its way to the grave. A perfect self-fulfilling prophecy.

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archiv..._missteps_f.php

Jeff Kirvin

Wrong. Palm is an integrator. They can't afford to be tied to any one supplier. A lot of the misconceptions about this deal stem from thinking that Palm is a hardware company. It's not.

Robyr

Jeff, I think the problem is Palm has changed its focus so much these past years that its almost impossible to be serious about their future. They seem to be in the dying stages of a large company. If Palm isnt a software company, and it isnt a hardware company, what the hell is it. Resellers dont work in this day and age (dont point to Dell and HP and other major PC manufacturers, they atleast manufacture a bit of their product). If Palm is just going to be a HTC reseller, what the hell is the point in being Palm? I don't mean to be harsh, but most people see it like I do, as the beginning of the end.

Jeff Kirvin

They have other ODMs. Palm makes the Palm experience, more than the sum of its parts.

Robyr

Well yeah, but in the past the Palm experience was all about hardware design, coupled with a down to earth, PIM centric OS. Now they control NEITHER! Its just not a good position to be in, especially since HTC and others arent solely supplying Palm, they also supply its competition, which in all honesty, have more experience and clout.

loki2486

Jeff:

I think that the future of handhelds is going to be Windows OS. The Palm OS is suitable for a classical PDA, but handhelds have evolved beyond that. The classical PDA, the "Personal Digital Assistant" is a dying class.

The devices now can hardly be a classical "PDA", they have evolved into "mobile computing" devices (Gates used that term). Back in the days, the orginal Palm Pilots and Palm OS were intended to be electronic dayrunners. You noticed that the handhelds today are much more than a dayrunner, they are trying to mimic the functionality of a desktop computer.

Gone are the days of using your handheld mostly to check your schedule, look up a phone number. Now we using our handhelds to listen to mp3's, watch video clips, stream music, access the internet, check and sent emails, read/edit documents presention... pretty much doing everything your desktop or laptop could doing in a units that fits in your pocket.

IMO, for mobile computing purposes, the Palm OS may have reached a LIMIT, perhaps Palm saw that in the Palm OS Cobalt (perhaps SONY saw it last year). The Palm OS created for a "PDA" may not be as robust as the Windows OS in handling the demands of today's mobile computers. Also, for mobile handheldcomputers people may prefer a OS so that the transference of info. from handheld to desktop flows smooth without requirement any conduits like the Palm OS. You would want the OS of you handheld to be the same as the OS on your desktop.

IMO, the Palm/Access OS may be an excellent OS for mobile smartphones, but it's limits will make it undesirable for future evolutions of mobile computers. Palm will problably still make Palm/Access OS units in the next few years, but will make more and more Window OS units and gradually leaving the Palm/Access OS to smartphones.

I personally think that in a few years, windows mobile will just be a full power windows desktop OS with mobile capabilities. The offsprings to the OQO and Sony VAIO U71...

just my $0.02

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Loki:
Treo 650 with 2 gig sd and Sony VAIO U71P

Cyker

Aww man...

I was hoping Palm would pick themselves up, but it looks like they've just caving.
The future does not look good for users like me (i.e. the Clie and Zodiac crowd).

So Palm aren't going to build their own hardware or software anymore? Now their entire modus operandi is to make this 'Zen-of-palm' experience from third-party parts?

Not an optimistic view.

Palms have become increasingly more complex, less stable and less reliable and they show no signs of improving - Rather than try to fix that they pull a Microsoft and go for Marketting Features (4GB HD in a PDA? The Nano has 4GB!).

Their hayday was when they made both the software and the hardware - That level of integration was so tight and functional! People still fall back on their Palm III's and Palm V's when their Tungstens fail them!

Ahh, welp, lets see how they do anyway. As always, if they make something I want, I'll buy it. If not, I won't. Simple as that.

Robyr

I see a Zaurus in my future, as M$ WinMobile devices are notorious for not syncing with Linux, its just a matter of time..

PDAJah

Well I bought my LD in June, here in the UK, and 4 months later there are still no WM or Symbian devices like the LD at its price point (HDD or 4GB flash). It is unique and I find it really useful. The Treo has been in the top 10 sales charts at www.expansys.co.uk for as long as I can remember - because it is a well designed and attractive package. Again I can't remember a WM or Symbian Smartphone have such consistent sales (these are SIM free devices). Palm is good at what it does.

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Jah

JAmerican

OMG. Jeff what a thinker you are. Amazing podcast. It makes so much sense that Palm felt great about ACCESS taking PalmSource in that it released them from PalmSource in a way. I had a feeling that PalmSource was the reason Palm had not gone to different OSes. Since ACCESS is not apart of Palm and ACCESS probably won't give any leeway where licensing is concerned, I think it was a bold and smart move to go to different OSes so that you have options. Makes a lot of sense. Palm's input into the development of Windows Mobile is amazing in that it might just be that we can all switch between OSes and still feel like were still using a Palm just with Video Streaming, Multitasking etc 2 Thumbs Kirvin

JAmerican

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JAmerican

Handspring Treo 90 --> Royal RG135nx --> T-Mobile Sidekick --> T-Mobile Sidekick Color --> PEG-UX40 -- > PEG-UX50--> Samsung T629 (Returned) -- > Palm TX (SOLD)/T-Mobile Sony Ericsson T610(Defective) --> T-Mobile Dash(Broken Screen) --> ASUS EEE 1000H Black/Treo 800w/PEG-VZ90

Accesories: Transcend 16GB SDHC | 8GB Transcend microSD

Un_Impressed

Should Jeff be admired for basically being forced to change his views by external events? What happened to Garnet being good enough until tabletPC's replace them? And what happened to Palm being able to survive without Windows? Whats Jeff going to say in a year's time when no more POS Treo's are sold?
http://1src.com/?m=show&id=1161

Is Jeff loyal to POS or just Palm the company?

Jeff Kirvin

Hiya, Surur. Couldn't stay away, could you? How'd you mask your IP this time?

I'm open-minded. I make the best decisions I can based on the information I have at the time, and I change my views when I learn new things. It's what intelligent people do.


Neither. I'm loyal to me. I use the best solution I can find for what I need to do. Currently, that's a Palm Treo 650. That could change tomorrow.

Jeff Kirvin

It's all in how you choose to see it, I guess. I see Palm with the advantage here because mobile integration is what they do. HP and Dell are hardware companies and don't really seem to get what makes a great mobile device.