nestersan

I want to get a PDA to use as a portable gaming device, I do not want twitch games nescessarily, just innovative games that take advantage of OS5 and stylus, (sorta like Mario Golf on GBA, or Trauma Centre)

I realize however that Palm OS seems to have crappy word/puzzle games, while all the interesting, polished games appear on WinCE.

Am I wrong? are they any great games on PALM OS (not bejewelled 2)

Wince has Worms, Golf Games, Madden, Baseball games

all 2D with great animations and sound, I see nothing of sort on Palm.

Egyptian Prophecy on Wince looks amazing

Warfare inc on Palm Os looks like crap compared to Argentum on WinCE what is going on ?

ackmondual

wow. I've been playing vid games since the old Atari days back in '96, then Famicom (released in US as NES, tho not compatible with each other). I have NEVER heard of the term "twitch games" until now, even tho I've played many for Atari, and Doom/Doom2 for PC as well. The wonders of it all......

Anyways, to address some of your concerns....

Unfortunately, most pOS handhelds lack graphics processors for games. Certain Sony Clie's IIRC have graphics accelorators for smooth video playback, but it couldn't be used for enhanced gaming graphics experience. The Tapwave Zodiac had a custom 2d 8MB ATI vid card for some nice graphical effects comparable to what you'd find on a PS1 and mabye some lower N64 levels. Problem is Tapwave went out of business and even when they got started and into business, they had weak support from big game developers. Only chance to see more graphically nice games for Zodiac are if Tapwave releases the procedure to sign Zodiac exclusive games or the Zodiac user community figures out a way to make their own homebrew games w/o the ability to sign the apps. This would add more titles to the weak lineup (some good, but overall weak) of games that are available for the Zodiac. The newer Dell Axims have graphics processors for games and video, but unlike the Zodiac, Dell can aggressively market their PDAs to have more features for less $$.

I never played Mario Golf on GBA, nor Trauma Centre. Going by the screenshots for the former, while many of the higher end pOS PDAs may be able to produce those graphics, I doubt we'll see them as those games at such gameplay complexity and level of graphics is hard to produce for "ma and pa" pOS game devs, and only slightly easier for bigger devs. I'm farily certain that pOS and PPC to a certain extent can't match DS graphics, but that's only my speculation

The reason why pOS has alot of card/word/puzzle games is b/c dev for pOS is MUCH MORE difficult than dev games for PPC for the following reasons:

too many resolutions to support on Palm
For pOS, you have up to 4 resolutions to support. Low-res (160x160), hi-res (320x320), and hi-res+... aka HVGA aka half VGA (recall VGA is 640x480 so HVGA would be 480x320). Since the last one is a rectangular screen, there may also be support for both landscape and portrait modes which is 2 res right there. PPC only has 2 resolution modes to support QVGA (320x240) and VGA. Since VGA PPCs aren't widely adapted by PPC users, there's really only 1 res which needs to be supported and that's QVGA.

Back with pOS, as hi-res is becoming mainstream, low-res users still clinging to their older PDAs will complain about higher res's since they don't have the pixels to display it. Hi-res users will complain that having only low-res means they can't take advantage of extra sharpness or more game viewing area. HVGA users will complain that having only hi-res, they can't utilize the extra 160 pixels they paid extra for. Only few high-end pOS PDAs have HVGA, so it's not worth most dev's while to implement this

For QVGA to VGA, and low-res to hi-res, sometimes the dev can just make the graphics and fonts look sharper, and for hi-res to HVGA, use the extra pixels for borders or background images, but some of those implementations don't change gameplay at all or don't make that much of a difference.

PPC has better, more, and free dev tools
PPC dev tool kits have decent documentation, are free, and easier to understand. pOS has codewarrior which is superb, but costs $300 or so

PPC has better hardware
While PPC OS is more bloated, and pOS can get away with lesser processor and RAM since it and it's apps are more efficient, that doesn't always apply true with games

In short, card/word/puzzle games are MUCH easier to implement

.

There are some neat games for pOS (few of which are graphically spectacular). Off the top of my head:
-space trader - great gameplay, adventure in managing goods and making $$
-vexed - logic puzzle game
-bigTwo - great card game
-Legacy - well done RPG IMO. Good enough graphics, lots of hours of gameplay... like Diablo w/o the FMV cutscenes, but from a first person view instead of isometric overhead view and turn based combat instead of real time
-Gamebox Gems - graphically nice collection of puzzle games
-Shattered Worlds Space Combat & Planet Assault - space combat sim

I agree on Bej2. While it is a neat game, it's quite over-rated

I know for sure that pOS also has has Worms (in the form of RifleSlugs and Snails), Golf Games (ZioGolf, Pocket MiniGolf, Pocket MiniGolf Extra), Madden (football game for both PPC and pOS), and Baseball games (can't think of any by name, but surely it's out there)

"all 2D with great animations and sound, I see nothing of sort on Palm."
Super Miners is the only game i can think of for now. Like many games of this caliber, they came out on PPC and ported to pOS later on.

Games like Egyptian Prophecy , Myst (PC port), and such are easier to port to PPC from PC due to their similarity, the way things work, and again, the dev tools avaiable. Does suck for pOS

Argentum DOES look nice. Ppl who think Zap2016 and Warfare Inc looks good should check out Anthelon and Argentum respectively. Again, reasons for pOS lacking these sorts of games..... see above.


CONCLUSION:
As for me, i stick with pOS and its games b/c i alr invested in pOS sw and games. I won't deny that PPC games are better than Palm and better than ever, but frankly, many of the crappier looking puzzle and action games are good enough for me since i enjoy good puzzle games and some of the action titles can be ADDICTING (try Bike Or Die ). They keep me plenty occupied while waiting in line or during long commutes. If i want better games, I have plenty of those for PC and through emulators. Also, my main reason for having a PDA is still for productivity and organization, in which I feel Palm Desktop does better than M$ Outlook. I did buy a Zodiac just to try it out now that Tapwave has gone under. So far, some of the games optimze for them are much nicer for standard pOS and are worth it. I'll also getting more Zodiac exclusive/tuned games for sale. When i have extra $$ saved up, i may consider buying a high end PPC for gaming. There truly are some tempting/interesting looking titles for PPC.

As for yourself, for gaming, PPC may be the way to go for PDA+portable gaming, as yeah, u said it, PPC has the better graphics, sometimes cheaper, and improving selection over pOS. ONce VGA kicks into high gear, games will look even better and play better on new levels. If you're really into gaming, then you may wanna consider getting a GBA, DS, PSP if u haven't already got one. GBA has a huge library, many of them cheap and fun, DS has some neat innovations with the touchscreen and dual screens, while PSP has some great graphics.

nestersan

WOW, thanks for great info, it confirmed a lot of my suspicions. My problem is I am POS Biased. :-)

Plus I am a clie fan, so I want one device to rule them all. Camera/bluetooth/keyboard/MP3/Movies/Games. All of which except for gaming I can get on a Clie.

I dont mind 2D gaming one bit, because I play more hours of emulated GBA games than I do games like Doom3,HL2 etc..

So the 3D, alpha blended stuff, I can kind live without for now.

My problem with PPC though, is that I have used a couple, and I find them sluggish, (like using a desktop with a little bit of ram), and I see only one model with a keyboard, plus they have no camera's. M$ also seems to want to change to OS every year, which would leave me out in cold for newer games.

PSP too expensive for a single purpose machine. Well, it plays music/movies but you cannot enjoy the resolutions on your own copied movies that are found on UMD Media, as of now there are no good games that are not crappy ports. No God of War, no Burnout 3 etc.. till about Jan next year. Titles are also way to expensive.

DS stylus input is very cool, but no music, awfully bad 3D graphics, no movies. As a matter of fact, I think the US game devs are gonna abandon it, or at least give the system to the interns to develop for, unless it is a 2D title, while the PSP gets the cream of the crop titles.

As a matter of fact, it is kinda like POS and PPC right now !!!

I really cannot afford to own all 4 types of devices at moment, but my gaming needs must be fulfilled. Actually we have daily powercuts in Jamaica, and I need something to relieve boredom..
:-)

ackmondual

Yeah, unfortunately, the closest you'll get to an all purpose device these days is you Clie+PSP/DS/GBA/PPC/pOS.

If you can get around some of the myths and facts of PPC..... alarms not working, the interface not really suitable even for a VGA screen (but still should be left for desktop resolutions), Outlook subpar in comparison to PD, then PPC may be the all purpose device you'll be most satisfied with. The PPC gaming league surely has taken a few leaps into the future. We got a wide variety of 2d games with graphics and music equivalent to SNES and dare i say to PS1. Too bad most PPC controls are either meh or crappy, else it'd be a great device for emu gaming as well.

Else, you may wanna suck it up and stick with your Clie or new pOS device. Palm1 devices aren't as feature/function filled as Clie's so you'd be giving up even more convergence there. Some devs that make graphically good games like PDAmill, they come out for PPC and sometimes get ported to pOS. Otherwise, you're stuck with puzzles and action games that are so-so looking. Games like those from N.I. Games, Astraware, CrazySoft, and so on may not be as polished in graphics as those u pointed out for PPC, but they are polished enough on their own in terms of options and playability. The gameplay is just addicting on some of those games too.

As for PSP, $40 to $50 a game is where it's at now About the same price as new PS and PS2 games. Unfortunately with how great modern games look nowadays, critics are afraid that PS3 games, with their photo-realistic graphics, HD support, surround sound, and souped up gameplay will force devs to charge $70 to $80 per game

As for me, too many things depend on me getting more $$. I've alr bought a Zodiac2, guestimating that even tho Tapwave is done, the price will either remain the same or actually going up based on current sales of previous PDAs that have gone off the market. I've already ordered some Zodiac-tuned/exclusive SD card games that should arrive shortly. I'm also gonna try to see if I can buy any Zodiac games that only come in electronic format like Animated Dudes and Gloop. Finally, gonna load up lots of emus

Later on, I'll consider getting a PPC to try out as a supplemental or even a replacement PDA, but definately at least for the games, and maybe even a DS as well. I'd get a PSP, but I'd rather buy a PS2 and enjoy games at a cheaper price.

If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them. Good luck in your search for your "perfect" device and if possible, let us know what you end up getting

Pdaman

I think that you just insist too much. Remember that those are pdas, not real computers. However you are right that palm os has too much those word/puzzle games. But in my stand palm os is perfect for me becose i don't play with my th55, even those puzzle games. I use it mostly as organizer and music player. I don't even play my ps2 anymore or computer so... Nevertheless you should had checked from internet what kind of games palm os has offer before you did buy palm os...

__________________
Sony Clie Th55 = Simple as that, the the best pda what I have ever owned! However even it didn't keep me in the Pda world. About my gadgets, I'm now just using my psp, camera and cellphone. Maybe I will someday get a new pda, but it must to have phone cababilities so I don't need to use my regular cellphone anymore. And yeah, this means I won't be hanging in here 1src that much anymore. If someone want me to remove unfinished threads from 1src or something just pm me. Keep your gadgets running!

gyffes

whoa, Ack, get a life, dooood!

At least direct that poor Nester towards Legacy!!

__________________
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

-- Sinclair Lewis, 1935

ackmondual

On 2nd thought, some more graphically better looking games for pOS do include:

Magic World, Rayman, Stone Age, Stone Age+, Fedora (ithink it was called this... if not, it's about a tall, green troll who goes around some 2d side scrolling landscape pounding things with his club), Jack BBQ.

ackmondual

Normally, that would be advise well given, except when it's coming from a sarcastic gamer with a PhD in Legacy

Besides, If you read the post more carefully, u'll see I did do just that

gyffes

advice


That's the point, yer treatise on the State of PDA gaming overWHELMED me..

Legacy shoulda been the SUM of yer answer to his question. It's where Palm-based gaming Starts and ENDS.

At least 'til Legacy 2....

__________________
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

-- Sinclair Lewis, 1935

Cyker

SkyForce and FireHammer look pretty nice. Arvale and that other RPG who's name I can't remember ain't bad either.

All the best looking games were mainly Zod titles from what I've seen, but PalmOS was never a great platform for games and multimedia; It's designed to be a workhorse, not a toy.
While it can do games, PPC's tend to be waaaay better at it, esp. action games and heavy graphics.

PalmOS games tend to be more cerebral and less flashy/action; Just reflects the different types of users the two platforms (traditionally) attract.

<PLUG>
Donate money to the Transport Tycoon guys at esoftinteractive.com so they can bring out a Palm version of OpenTTD! (They already did a Zodiac one, which is fantastic and even has music now! )

mikle820forex

guys try these games they are all fantastic...

shark attack
sky force
medeival heroes
arvale
acedior
legacy (of course)
village sim
microquad

arson

http://www.daedalus3d.com/

Who says polygon overload isn't possible on POS? Graphically, this is one of the best first person shooter Doom style games I've seen running on a clie.

__________________
"Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat." -- Lily Tomlin

ackmondual

Another Con with pOS gaming is that it used to be that pOS had many exclusive games. It's still true now, but to a much lesser extent. The few pOS exclusive titles are mostly graphically simplier games, like Bike or Die and various other freeware and some shareware titles. The games on PPC are the graphically nice/polished games, some mentioned by nestersan. Some of these may get ported to pOS, but not many, and if so, usually after a long while.

A complaint some PDA user had about pOS games, and i think this also applies to PPC as well, tho probably to a lesser extent is that PDA games are too 'simple'. He commented how a $15 pOS puzzle game was also available as part of a GBA game for $30. The latter was a medium sized adventure game along with 8 or so mini-games within. One of the mini-games IS that pOS puzzle game.

nestersan

Hang on, remember I said that i do not mind 2D gaming, in terms of fun and innovation, nintendo is showing POS what should be done with a stylus.

Trauma Centre:Under the Knife is soon to be released DS game, where you play a surgeon, and basically use DS stylus as whichever tool is needed to fix patient, with cases ranging from pulling out a splinter and stitching up wound, to open heart surgery.
That is innovative!, why has no one thought of it before ?All you need is a good 2D sprite scaling engine and that is it, the DS version is not high res at all, but it looks like fun: http://ds.ign.com/articles/621/621911p1.html

ElectroPlankton is another: http://ds.ign.com/articles/618/618046p1.html

So frustrated....