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07-23-2005, 08:11 PM

Homie S

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ESRB changes GTA to Adult rating due to Hot Coffee mod

I'm sure you've all heard of this in one form or another, but I want to see what you guys think.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/0...ws_6129557.html

Quote:

After percolating for weeks, the Hot Coffee controversy has finally boiled over. Today, Take-Two Interactive announced that as the result of an investigation by the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB), all versions of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas will now bear an AO for Adults Only rating for "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, [and] Use of Drugs." Previously, the game was rated M for Mature.
he rerating comes nearly a month after the first reports surfaced of the so-called "Hot Coffee" mod for the PC version of San Andreas. After being installed, the widely available mod lets users play a bonus sex minigame as a reward for completing the numerous "girlfriend" missions in San Andreas.

After video of the mod was widely circulated, such figures as ardent anti-game activist Jack Thompson and US Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) blasted the game. Clinton went as far as to publicly equate violent games with cigarettes and alcohol as a hazard to America's youth. In short order, the ESRB launched the aforementioned investigation, which looked into whether the mod was included in the original game or was made by a third party.

In response to the PC mod surfacing and gaining wide notice, Rockstar Games, the Take-Two subsidiary that develops and publishes San Andreas, issued a carefully worded statement in reference to the mod. "So far we have learned that the 'Hot Coffee' modification is the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game," it read.

However, Rockstar's statement did little to extinguish the fires of controversy. Soon, reports began to surface that console versions of San Andreas contained code for the sex minigame. Late last week, GameSpot editors unlocked the code from a PlayStation 2 copy of San Andreas bought in October 2004, using an Action Replay Max device and a series of cheat codes. Since console games are written on unalterable DVDs and cheat codes cannot introduce new content, the fact the minigame was playable at all means it was included in the original PS2 San Andreas, albeit hidden.

The AO for Adults Only rating means that, according to the ESRB's official definition, the current version of the game now "should only be played by persons 18 years and older" and "may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity." This doesn't sound too far off from the ESRB definition for the M for Mature rating, which says games bearing it "have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language."

But while they sound similar on paper, the AO and M ratings have one very big difference in real life. Namely, most major chain stores, including the all-important retail behemoth Wal-Mart, will not carry AO-rated games. By contrast, M-rated games aren't even separated from games bearing the T for Teen, E10+ for Everyone 10 and older, and E for Everyone ratings. (Games rated EC for Early Childhood are usually educational in scope and are found in different sections.)

[UPDATE 2 and 3] It didn't take long for the effects of the rating to be felt. Late Wednesday, Target, and Best Buy issued press releases they were pulling all versions of San Andreas from shelves. Unconfirmed reports had GameStop following suit, and Wal-Mart told CNN/Money that it had issued orders to all stores to stop selling the game. "We do not sell games that are rated AO," Wal-Mart spokesperson Karen Burk told the site.

In its statement, Take-Two outlined its response to the commerce-limiting AO rating. "[Take-Two subsidiary] Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the 'hot coffee' modifications," it read. "This version will retain the original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the Company's fourth fiscal quarter." The quarter in question runs from August to October 2005. The company will also release a patch for the currently available PC version of the game, which will lock out the sex minigames.

[UPDATE 4] Wednesday evening, the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association (IEMA), the main game-retailer lobby, issued a statement in the middle of its annual convention. "Our members intend to immediately cease all sales of the game until existing inventory can either be re-stickered with an AO (Adults Only) rating, or exchanged for new versions of the game that has the hidden content removed and the original M (Mature 17+) rating intact," read the statement. "Though not a policy, IEMA members generally do not carry AO-rated games any differently than we do not carry X-rated videos or DVDs, thus it is likely that our members will be removing all copies of the current version and re-stocking with the updated version."

Take-Two braced Wall Street for the financial fallout of the ESRB and IEMA decisions. Its statement, which was released after markets closed, said the company was lowering guidance for its third fiscal quarter (which ends July 31, 2005) to $160-$170 million in net sales and a net loss per share of $0.40-$0.45. Take-Two also lowered its guidance for the fiscal year (which ends October 31) to $1.26-$1.31 billion in net sales and $1.05-$1.12 in diluted earnings per share. The news hammered Take-Two's stock, which was down $1.82 (6.72 percent) in after-hours trading as of press time.

While not good, today's news was not as bad as it could have been. Most industry watchers had expected a hefty fine from either the ESRB or possibly even the government. Some even speculated that the company would be forced to recall all copies of the game, at a catastrophic expense.

For its part, Take-Two stuck by its contention that the rerating was "due to unauthorized third party 'Hot Coffee' modification." The publisher reminded the public that "the scenes depicted in the 'Hot Coffee' modification are not playable in the retail version of the game unless the user downloads and/or installs unauthorized software that alters the content of the original retail version of the title, representing a violation of Take-Two and Rockstar's end user license agreement (EULA) and intellectual property rights."

Paul Eibeler, Take-Two's president and chief executive officer, also gave his personal thoughts on the matter in the statement. "We are deeply concerned that the publicity surrounding these unauthorized modifications has caused the game to be misrepresented to the public and has detracted from the creative merits of this award winning product," he said.

"The ESRB's decision to re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and anyone who distributes or consumes digital content," Eibler continued. "Rockstar Games is pleased that the investigation is now settled and they look forward to returning their focus to making innovative and groundbreaking video games for a mature audience."

[UPDATE 1] A Los Angeles Times story on the rating quoted Take-Two spokesman Jim Ankner as admitting that "there is sex content in the [San Andreas] disc. ... The editing and finalization of any game is a complicated task and it's not uncommon for unused and unfinished content to remain on the disc." However, a Rockstar Games spokesperson flatly told GameSpot that Ankner "was misquoted."

There was no misquoting Patricia Vance, president of the ESRB. In a sternly worded statement on the ESRB site, she said "we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox, and PS2)." She also had harsh words for Take-Two. "Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined," she said. "Going forward, the ESRB will now require all game publishers to submit any pertinent content shipped in final product even if is not intended to ever be accessed during game play, or remove it from the final disc."

Vance did concur with Rockstar's assertion that the sex minigames were "programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible. The material can only be accessed by downloading a software patch, created by an independent third party without Rockstar's permission, which is now freely available on the Internet and through console accessories." A Rockstar spokesperson said the company was considering legal action against Action Replay, GameShark, and other makers of console cheat devices that allow access to the sex minigames.

What do you guys think? I think this gives more incentive and more publicity than ever to buy GTA:SA for people now. Discuss!

07-23-2005, 08:28 PM	#2
jjesusfreak01 Custom User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 3,942	I think stores are pulling it off shelves, and it will be hard to find, because most places dont sell AO titles. I think it should have been AO to begin with. If ever a game deserved that title... __________________ Brad Green - Enthusiast Extraordinaire... Sony TG-50, Sony TH-55, Palm TX...TH-55 still the best

07-23-2005, 08:48 PM

Homie S

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01

I think stores are pulling it off shelves, and it will be hard to find, because most places dont sell AO titles. I think it should have been AO to begin with. If ever a game deserved that title...

I am in complete agreement with this. What makes me even more pissed off is that the MPAA won't release the rights to its ratings system, which (I think) would lessen a lot of confusion. If there's ever a game that would deserve an AO rating, this game would be it.

Another thing I find surprising, is that this game is known for it's abundant drug dealing, pimping, and cop killing, yet everyone gets in a hissy fit when they find out there's a sexual act OH NO SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

It's surely not the parents faults for letting this game go to their kids either, oh no.

07-23-2005, 09:06 PM	#4
jjesusfreak01 Custom User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 3,942	Its the parents fault for not being parents, and the ratings boards fault for not rating the game well in the first place. __________________ Brad Green - Enthusiast Extraordinaire... Sony TG-50, Sony TH-55, Palm TX...TH-55 still the best

07-24-2005, 07:40 AM	#5
Tam Hanna Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,853	Hi, I just wonder what it means if it is rated AO? Can then only adults bhuy it, or an still everyone? In Germany there is sth called Zensur. If sth lands on ther so-called index, iot an not be purchased unless you identify yourself with an ID card if the merchant is not 100% sure of your age. if he dosnt ensure himself, he pays a hefty fine... Luckily, there is no such censorship in austria __________________ http://www.palmfilefind.com - find files on your memory card Visit my blog at http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com to learn more about the PalmOS platform! TamsPPC-the PocketPC Blog TamsS60

07-24-2005, 10:40 AM	#6
Cyker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,188	It's all a load of crap. Frankly, there are games with worse stuff that have M-ratings, but because nobody's heard of them they escape the spotlight. GTA is a very popular franchise, and so a lot of politicians have jumped onto the GTA-bashing bandwagon to score brownie points with the largely uninformed populace (The same populace who let their 6-year olds buy these games in the first place!) But I agree with you JJF - A lot of games out there, this included, really should have an AO rating in the first place. (I find the apparent acceptance of murdering people and such in our society rather depressing.) To be fair on Rockstar 'tho, I think they did get a bit harshed; The stuff causing all the huff was not part of normally accessible code, even as a hidden easter egg, so to be judged on that is a tad unfair. OTOH, they really should have removed it in the final build, but I can understand why they might not have wanted/had time too - Apart from a few, most modern games contain some of the most badly written pieces of code you will ever see, and ripping out chunks will often break loads of stuff (I've seen some games who's executables were full of debug stuff; Presumable because the optimised build wasn't stable!). When you have deadlines, it's often easier just to bypass sections of code than remove them and risk breaking some obscure dependency. But again, IMHO, it should have been rated AO in the first place IMHO so this is just fixing what I feel was a lenient rating in the first place, but now it's being blown out of proportion. The article on Maddox's website was quite amusing

07-24-2005, 09:02 PM	#7
Ezikial Anta Mustangs and Supras Join Date: May 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,056	Well, to me, it deserved AO all along. I am really glad to finally see this rating being used, and hope that more games are placed into the AO catagory. Quickly, too. __________________ Geddy Lee's number one fan!

07-24-2005, 09:32 PM	#8
jjesusfreak01 Custom User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 3,942	Not to disagree Cyker, but it is totally possible that they left it in on purpose originally, with the idea they they were beyond reproach because the mod is not accessible through normal use. The company has time to do whatever they want. It is the most successful game ever to my knowledge, and if they spend two weeks cleaning up the code before production, people are still going to buy it. For some companies, the space on the discs is precious, and they do not waste space. If this is something that would cause problems if ripped out, it sounds like they are pulling a Microsoft. I have not seen this mod, and do not plan to look for it, but it is my opinion that something like this should be able to be removed without hurting anyything. We will have to see if they give further justification when they are SUED, which will probably happen soon. On the easter egg note, there are some things in programs that are made to be accessible only with software patches. For an example (from my ancient repository of knowledge), you can look at the original Pokemon games for Gameboy Color. You could get almost any character by playing the game, with the excpetion of one. I do not believe Mew could be caught ever. You could however have this Pokemon if you had the correct gameshark code. This particular character was actually designed by Nintendo to be software unlockable because they unlocked it for winners of some of their mall competitions. Thats just one example, but I am sure there are more of this type of "easter egg". __________________ Brad Green - Enthusiast Extraordinaire... Sony TG-50, Sony TH-55, Palm TX...TH-55 still the best Last edited by jjesusfreak01 : 07-24-2005 at 09:37 PM.

07-25-2005, 05:32 AM	#9
Tam Hanna Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,853	About Mew: I an darkly remember that Mew was given away at Nintendo promos with a Mew Machine.. __________________ http://www.palmfilefind.com - find files on your memory card Visit my blog at http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com to learn more about the PalmOS platform! TamsPPC-the PocketPC Blog TamsS60

07-25-2005, 05:42 AM

#10

jjesusfreak01

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Hanna

About Mew:
I an darkly remember that Mew was given away at Nintendo promos with a Mew Machine..

Exactly, thats what I meant by my next to last sentence.

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07-25-2005, 08:45 AM	#11
ydjk58 Jesus Geek Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 161	Perhaps we shouldn't forget about old Lesuire Suit Larry. I know that from just reading the reviews that the latest offering is pretty much just sex games. It still garners an M rating yet should have gotten an AO off the bat, yet it hasn't. perhaps because it is under the major radar right now and escaped the recent scrutiny. Hopefully this won't affect Halo 2 as it is one of the other most popular M rated titles. But I definetly agree that game ratings should be looked at again for certain games. I do think however that this may help yet hinder the sales of GTA:SA I'm sure there will be people who try and collect each one, the First M rated version, the AO rated version, and the second M rated version. However this will probably be a small niche as parents will probably stop buying this game for there children. __________________ James Whited, Reviewer, PDALive.com Last edited by ydjk58 : 07-25-2005 at 08:49 AM.

07-25-2005, 09:29 AM	#12
Enceladus Murderous Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 335	San Andreas was fine at it's rating of M which still says 17 years and older. The majority of people that age and older will not see or hear things they haven't already dealt with when playing that game. Politicians need to spend less time making a fuss over censoring animated sex scenes and get a bit more responsible with their time and power. But what else is new.

07-25-2005, 10:27 AM

#13

jjesusfreak01

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Enceladus

San Andreas was fine at it's rating of M which still says 17 years and older. The majority of people that age and older will not see or hear things they haven't already dealt with when playing that game. Politicians need to spend less time making a fuss over censoring animated sex scenes and get a bit more responsible with their time and power. But what else is new.

I personally agree that politicians need to keep their dirty hands out of it, however, just because kids are already exposed to such things, it doesnt mean we should let them play something that only further engrains these ideas in their heads. Anyway, I believe many stores will sell that game to younger kids (they are NOT legally bound to only sell it to 17+). Many large retailers do have this policy fortunately. I dont even think the majority of kids playing are 17+. The thing is that if the game is rated AO, parents might just take a second look and decide to not let their kids play that crap. The kids say, "Its only rated M", and, "Everyone else has it". M is the largest spectrum in the rating industry. In TV, M goes for just about everything with violence, though many channels give more detailed descriptions. In video games, it obviously spans a spectrum from games with just violence, to games with excessive violence and "sexual themes", or whatever they want to call it. The ESRB was under extreme pressure to give this game an M rating, probably because of its popularity, and the fact that they had in extreme error label similar titles with M.

I really dont know what else to say. This game should never have been sold at all to anyone really. A game that encourages civil disobedience, violence towards police, and horribly degrades women? 10 years ago if we told them that games would be like this, they may have reconsidered the home computer.

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07-25-2005, 01:01 PM

#14

Homie S

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01

M does go for a lot of things, and I think one thing parents should understand is that it coincides with R rated movies. M ratings say right on them: intense violence, blood and gore, and explicit sexual content. I don't know how else it can be put.

Quote:

I really dont know what else to say. This game should never have been sold at all to anyone really. A game that encourages civil disobedience, violence towards police, and horribly degrades women? 10 years ago if we told them that games would be like this, they may have reconsidered the home computer.

So you're saying the game encourages kids to go out and deal drugs and kill cops and have permiscuous sex? Please don't sound like that attorney Jack Thompson, I'm almost sure he was an orphan because I don't think he knows that parents exist.

EDIT: Maybe I'm taking this thread in places where it shouldn't go, let's just say I disagree with you flat out. Agree to disagree I guess.

07-25-2005, 02:01 PM	#15
Cyker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,188	I believe in freedom of expression, so I wouldn't condone banning stuff like that outright, but I do tend to lump games like that in the same section of society that the porn industry is in, in the sense that it promotes a fringe attitude. It's just that, for some reason, graphic violence is much more acceptable than the merest suggestion of anything sexual, so things like GTA tend to be more mainstream. I actually think GTA is a pretty good game; It is rather focussed on the 'dark side', but I was quite impressed at the scope of the game, in the sense of stuff you can do and choices - You can do almost anything you want, and that's pretty impressive. I mean, you can become a taxi driver or a friggin' ice-cream man if you want to!! lol! However, I definitely think kids should NOT be playing stuff like that, espescially since it rewards doing all the really bad stuff so highly. What really gets my goat is when parents sue games companies for stuff (e.g. post-Columbine) yet they are the ones letting their kids play the kind of stuff they're trying to get banned in the first place! Note, I'm not saying games, movies and rock music auto-magically turn innocent kiddies into larcenous killers - That's just ludicrous (Most of them are already vicious little buggers anyway (j/k )), but repeated exposure to that kinda stuff will desensitise you to it. If you compare our societies to a hundred years back, the limits of acceptibility have widened greatly. This is, as with many things, a double-edged sword. We have more freedom than ever before, but some people will abuse that freedom and this is something we as a society should be wary of. As it stands, governments are trying to erode these freedoms that we have, using the abusers as excuses and reasons, which makes it all the more important that we work towards shaping our societies to one where the freedoms we are granted are not abused so flagrantly.