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Old 06-01-2005, 08:01 PM   #1
Jeff Kirvin
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Post 1SRC Podcast TwentySix

USB troubles with the LifeDrive? Verification, please.

SharkCache, a new must-have utility for LifeDrive owners.

Tired of the same old look for your Palm? Liven it up with SkinUI. (Settle in if you're going to read the whole thread. As of this writing, there's 644 posts. We 1SRCers are a talky bunch...)

Cobalt phone shown at DevCon.

NicePalm? Is this the next Mobile Manager?

Is Graffiti 2 really slower than Graffiti 1? See this on the lag issue. [details]
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:43 PM   #2
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love the theme music
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:44 PM   #3
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Install Graffiti 2? Didn't you mean Graffiti 1? Just observing. I hate Graffiti in general and love thumbboards . I like the starting theme and the Outlook sounds . XEROX sucks .

Just some thoughts.

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Old 06-01-2005, 08:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAmerican
and the Outlook sounds


<sigh class="heavy" />

In order to get the theme music, I had to record via Stereo Mix rather than Microphone, so other stuff weaseled in there too...

I'm not an audio engineer...
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:50 PM   #5
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OMG. This is hieroglyphics...



Wow, get over it guys, learn Graffiti 2.



I agree Kirvin. Graffiti 2 is very easy to use. Graffiti 1 looks so confusing. Glad they made the switch.

EDIT: Here are some demonstations of Graffiti and Graffiti 2. Look...

Graffiti

Graffiti 2


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Old 06-01-2005, 09:42 PM   #6
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I also like graffitie 2. also More rumors? i just got over the last ones! why must palm, err Palmone, ahh Palm do this to me?
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:57 PM   #7
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I can definitely live with Graffiti 2 and I'm getting good with it, but I was really, really good at Graffiti 1. Don't know why exactly, but I picked it up and learned it very fast.
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:19 AM   #8
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I could live with G2, but I'd much rather use G1.

Actually, if I was forced to use G2 I think I'd probably use the soft-keyboard instead.

About the basic efficiency of the two, G1 is a lot faster simply because, as you say, it's better at lower-case, which is what the vast majority of text will be.
Unless you're writing C or Perl or something

Do people really find G1 that hard?
Most of the characters are similar to their real-life counterparts, and seeing as I managed to pick it up after a couple hours use I'm sure that most people could.

I still think Decuma blows G2 out of the water if you want more natural writing. G1OTOH is an (IMHO) perfect trade-off for efficiency.
G2 is sortof stuck in the middle - It's not as easy to learn as Decuma but has Decuma's problems, but doesn't have G1's speed but has it's problems.

I'm normally try to display less zealotry wrt G1, but I recently put it on a friend's T|E because he wanted to try it, and he picked it up very quickly.
He had some confusion with the different chars (As I did when I tried switching to G2), but that was soon gone and I think I've gone and converted another Palm user to G1

It's the little things like not having to interrupt your train of thought to wait for the damned 2-stroke system to figure out what you want. G1 lets me enter as fast as I want without having to do any major learning like I did with Fitali (Which is possibly the fastest soft-entry method available if you can learn it!)

When this stupid lawsuit gets thrown away again, I really hope at least the option is put back. It's really sad that Sony could add multiple entry systems with apparent ease - and have it user extensible too! - whereas for Palm it's apparently impossibly difficult...

Being a realist however, I doubt it will happen. I feel Palm's direction is taking them away from PalmOS - PalmOS has always been more focused on the little things that make life easier - Sony figured this out, and so did Tapwave to a lessor extent, 'tho nowhere nearly as good as Sony.
Palm don't seem to get it, and are definitely headed in a more PPC direction of Big! Features! And! Numbers!.

PPC's have always been easy to sell because they sound awesome; It's not until you actually use them that you get frustrated at the hoops you have to jump through to do stuff.
Palms have always been a tough sell, but the ease of use is such a big point for me and many others who've experienced the so-called 'zen of palm' that we favour these devices with their relatively slow CPU's and tiny amounts of RAM over the big flashy ones. Palm's best advertising has been word of mouth from satisfied users.

I had a quick glance at the article you wrote JK, and that word Ideology jumped out at me.
I think you might have hit the nail on it's proverbial... See, I remember when Palm (Then a piece of US Robotics) first appeared; Their whole design ethic from hardware to software was based around ideology of simplicity and efficiency, down to the tiniest details.
Palm don't have that anymore, and I think that's why they catch a lot of flak. They keep bolting on ever larger kludges onto what was originally a very lightweight OS, forgetting the details but focussing on the big things. This is a very MS way of thinking, and it isn't going to do them any favours in the long run. We've already seen the effects of such thinking in Windows...

If they want to keep their current core market, as opposed to competing with PPC directly or changing their focus entirely, they need to step back, take a breather and take a wide view.
At this point the realist jumps in to point out that they probably will change their focus, probably try to go more mainstream. This could net them a fortune or bankrupt the company - the mainstream is a fickle market
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:44 AM   #9
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Having now listened to the 'cast...

ROFL! Loved the theme music Darth Kirvin! Emperor Kirvin?
For a second I thought I told AP to play the wrong MP3 (Uh... not that I have the Imperial March on my TH55... nosirree.... *whistles*)

*ahem!* Anyway!

SkinUI - This is what I love about the Podcasts. I tend to skim over the threads, and somehow managed to totally miss this!
I'm trying it out on my TH55 and it's seriously cool!

More Graffiti (Sorrysorrysorry! ) - It's funny, when I got my TH55 I did a semi-trial of the input methods. I tried Decuma first, since this was the one I was anticipating the most, but even with teaching I found it too slow for normal use. However, I couldn't up the recognition speed because it often mis-interpreted the characters I wrote . Left it after a couple of days I think.
I still use it when I'm writing short sentences, and for other people when they want to play with it, but that's about it.

I went back to G2 - Must admit I was a bit prejudiced, but after a few hours I was thinking "Hey, I could live with this!" - Most of the strokes you could write G1-style and they'll still work (Mainly because a lot of the strokes ARE the same as G1...!), and I figured it was just a matter of learning the changed ones, in the same way I had to learn some of the weirder G1 chars (e.g. K, Y, and Q).
Went along like this for a few days, but I started getting 'niggles'. It's the delay for the two-stroke chars that really cheesed me off in the end. The worst was when I was on the phone and had to take some notes - I grabbed my TH the way I'd always done with my T665 and tried to scrawl down what the guy was telling me on the fly, but my text was getting so mangled because I was writing too fast for the recognition delay that it took me a good few minutes afterwards to figure out and correct what I'd written!
That was when I thought "Sod it" and put G1 back on.

I know it's just a small tiny tiny detail, but I just find the instant feedback and return of G1 sooo much more pleasent to write with...

Last edited by Cyker : 06-02-2005 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:28 AM   #10
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Thumbs up

I remember playing with g1 back when palms were young... and I too, much so for the need of one. I thought it was confusing at first but not rediculously so. I picked up most of it. Heck, I was just amazed I could write anything and have it converted into legible text. When I finnally got a palm o' mine own, it had G2. I picked it up, and wrote. It is very intuitive. I still can't get the stinking colon to work but, who's perfect. I do wish I could input the letters faster, but, people in the hot place want water too.

I certainly understand people's unwillingness to change. I hate change as much as the next man... but if I can make the switch from tighty whities to boxers... G2 will not kill them. G2 aint perfect, and you do have to change the way to write but it's tolerable, and having come from a corporate environment, P1 will never go back. That would be the same as admiting they were wrong about something. As we all learned from the american car industry in the '70's... We (consumers) will like what they sell, because they made it with their own best interests at heart. After all, it must be what we want, othewise they never would have made it, right?

Anyway, I really like these podcasts Mr. K. You just kept making me check my email! Keep up the good work.
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:12 AM   #11
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I've always had trouble doing the non-alphanumerics with G2. I've been using G1 since the Newton and I just prefer it. I don't see what the big deal is with Palm not making it available to us. They won the damn lawsuit!

I find G1 easier to write with accurately when I'm not looking at the device. I have a tough time doing the 2 stroke characters of G2 accurately while talking to people.

Is there any program that anyone knows about that can change the i, k, t, and x glyphs?
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Old 06-02-2005, 08:14 AM   #12
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I have to say I miss G1, but am not going to make a fuss. The people who cry foul at the loss of Gq are the some individuals that cry foul of Palms lack of marketing skills and inovation.

G2 'might' arguably not be an inovation on G1, but from a marketing standpoint I view it as close to do or die for Palm if they want to sell more units.

Us geeks who like G1 will find a patch, new users just want G2.

SharkCache sounds interesting, but I do not think it will change my mind on the LifeDrive (I returned mine after 2 weeks). I did not have an issue with lag times switching programs (there was a little sometimes but mostly it was fine). My issues with the unit were really 3 things.

1. I have been using a C and have gotten to like the built in keyboard. This is not a strike against the LD just a preference.

2. Seek times to open Excell files etc were at times frustrating. 10 - 15 seconds is not the end of the world, but when you are used to 'instant' on a palm it just was not for me.

3. I paid $499. I have an iPod and the LD is not an ipod killer (i have no problem with that, i did not expect it to be) BUT I thought I could use say 500mb - a gig of the HD for mp3's and so leave my ipod behind. For $499 I thought this was a fair desire... but mp3 playback on the LD was unbearable for me, hiss levels and constant skipping (or cut out might be a better way to describe). My Palm C does not do this, granted it is mono but fine for podcasts, and my older Tungsten T did not. I think this is unforgivable at this price.

NicePalm - ummm, lets hope not, that sounds like an AWFUL name to try and market a device with. My Pocket PC buddies will have a field day making fun of that one!

Adam
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Old 06-02-2005, 10:09 AM   #13
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I was thinking that NicePalm is the kind of name you'd get for a device in Japan
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:07 AM   #14
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I loved G1 and was quite proficient with it. When the announcement came about the switch to G2, I installed Jot on my IIIc, to give me a chance to learn the new style before I was thrown in sink-or-swim with whatever my next device may be. Well, than next device was a Zire 71, and I missed some of the customizations that were available with Jot, so I tranferred the program over. When my TH55 came in, I decided to finally convert to straight G2, without the extra Jot customizations (mainly for the letter T), and I've been happy with the switch.

My main aversion to G2 was for the commands, as was brought up when the change was first proposed. If you need to do a Command-K, it will recognize it as a Command-L. I guess that's been fixed, though, but I never use command strokes anyway, so I don't know what I was worried about.

Are you serious? The cut, copy, paste strokes are G2-only? They've become so ubiquitous in my Palm usage that I could have sworn they were there all along. If for no other reason, that's why I could never go back to G1.

Something else great about G2: crazy symbols. IIRC, there was no way to write a in G1. The symbol was there, but you had to type it on a PC and sync it over. With G2, if you don't remember the crazy way to write a symbol, you just shift, write the symbol as you would on paper, and unshift. And 99% of the time, it works perfectly.

Honestly, with G1, I used to use the long-upstroke to bring up Graffiti Help fairly often. Since G2, except during the transition period, I can't recall ever using it.

So yeah, to all you G1 Nazis, just give it a shot. You may even like it.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timepilot84
Is there any program that anyone knows about that can change the i, k, t, and x glyphs?


Yes, the full version of Jot will allow you to change I to the single downstroke (L then becomes cap L), change K to a cursive K (the kind that looks like a small cap R), T can become the G1 T (you lose apostrophe this way), or a joined + sign, and I don't think you can do anything about X unless you go with something like TealScript that'll let you fully customize.

Bad thing about Jot is that AFAIK, it still costs $20, even though its functionality has now been reduced to a G2 enhancement, rather than a full-out product. I inquired with CIC about this, though it's been about two years since I did.
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