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Old 01-06-2005, 11:31 PM   #31
iebnn
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urban75: I took a lot at mo:blog. It uses just as much screen space as I do. I take 2 lines of text out for the top bar and the 2nd bar, and mo:blog takes 2 lines out for the title bar and the snippets/tool bar, it just arranges it differently. Ok, it takes slightly less space for its title bar at the top, but the text field has some unused space at the bottom, so the difference is moot.

The code snippets in PHTML will be via the menu bar, or under the Insert button. I think that the Insert button will have subcategories like Tags, Snippets, and other things I haven't determined yet (other wizards? Javascript and dhtml wizards, with preset scripts?)

The buttons to its right will have the commonly-used wizards, like link, img, css class, etc.

Why did you think that mo:blog used less space for its interface than the PHTML interface demo, though? Would it work better to move my toolbar (the Insert and wizard buttons) to the bottom of the screen to create the illusion of more field space? When I replace the tabs at the top with a dropdown selection, its height can probably be decreased as well. Maybe I'll try out this arrangement and post a demo PRC for discussion.

Thanks again for all of your help, people!
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:34 PM   #32
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Ok I measured it, mo:blog has a few extra pixels for the height of its text field. But it doesn't make use of these saved pixels, as they're not enough for another line of text.

I'll make up for this loss though by using a dropdown selection for the open files rather than a tab control, which requires more height. And I built in smaller fonts which can make use of the extra space. (I will have the option to use the normal fonts too though)
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:28 AM   #33
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Please give PHTML hires+ support. CodeDiver can force it to go full screen, but doesn't display the menus correctly.
It's all about full screen!

Keep up the good work. I love the small font.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:39 AM   #34
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enderenya: I will definitely have hires+, and possibly the landscape hires+ as well.
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:44 PM   #35
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It would be nice to have one tab for inline elements and another for block level. That's how I think about these things. Tables and forms/elements would be different tabs in my mind. Doc types would be nice but not necessary.

Also, it would be nice to have control over autoindent (at least on/off and keyboard tab and shift tab support) and text wrapping (no wrap, wrap and restart at edge, and wrap and restart at indent (particularly for hires landscape).
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:33 PM   #36
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billegal: I'm not sure what you mean by doc types?

I can already fit most commonly-used HTML 'wizards' on the one bar, so separating inline elements from block level elements with a tab would be unecessary. And that would mean more taps and a more confusing interface.

I'll look into adding autoindent. I'll have a feature for selecting a block of text and indenting the block though.

I'd like to be able to change the size of the tab character, but I don't know if that's possible.

I would love to be able to turn of wordwrapping, but unless I code my own text field, it's not possible. I might be able to use a workaround in the meantime by making the field much wider than the form is, and having a scrollbar move the field back and forth, but it wouldn't be able to dynamically resize as you type longer lines, and eventually it would wrap if you reach however wide I set the field to be. It's a little messy, but I think I'll include it in there as an option.

I'm looking for contactors to write a new field for me, but if I can't find any for a reasonable price, I might work on it on my own at a later time. It's a large project though, and wouldn't be in the next version.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:36 PM   #37
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Just to update people on progress: I almost have the File Open/Save dialogs completely done (and pretty nicely I might add). It's an annoying amount of work and not very fun to code. I wish Palm would include such dialogs in the system.
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Old 01-12-2005, 11:09 PM   #38
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Another progress update:
File Open/Save is fully done (and very nicely).

Having multiple documents open simultaneously is done. It's using Tabs now, but I will change this to a popup list at a later point, since it makes better use of space.

Snippets are almost done.

I have a while to go... but development is speeding up Too bad university starts again in under two weeks, but I'll still have a lot of spare time to work on this (hopefully). I'm going to Europe this summer, and definitely need to have this done and released well before that time, to help with my lack of money

There hasn't been any discussion here lately... Please, if you have any ideas, suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc., let me know in here! If there's something you'd like to see in the next version, and you tell me about it, chances are I will add it.

PS I am considering changing the name of the product to DragonHTML. However, I would also like to eventually market this as a general text editor. If anyone is good at marketing please give me some ideas on this. Should I split it into two separate products? Have the 'html' part as an add-on? A lot of people will probably see this wanting a text editor, but not get it because its name says HTML. But if I name it as a text editor, then people won't see it as an HTML editor as well. It's already an incredible text editor, as it has multiple document support and will have regexps and such. And unlimited file length. VFS support, etc.

Thanks again for all your help people.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:14 PM   #39
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Good observation. I am not a marketing expert but it probably would be a good idea to title it as a text editor... on the MAC I've been using BBedit for the longest while, it is an amazing TEXT editor that does programming code, html, etc...
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:57 PM   #40
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Well it could use some improvements before being marketed as a general text editor. The HTML stuff would get in the way a little bit currently. But I think down the road I might add features to it so that it can be used for more general things more easily, and possibly other programming languages, if there is a demand for that.

But I'd also really like to market it as an HTML editor, since there are only basically 2 HTML editors on the market for Palm (including mine). It's a bit of a dilemma.

I like the idea of DragonHTML though. It's unique, Google turns up next to nothing, and it shows what it is. It's not generic like something along the lines of "Pocket Web Editor" or "Mobile Web Developer" or something like that. Maybe DragonEdit could work as just a general text editor.
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:26 PM   #41
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How about something like TravelEdit, PDAEdit, HandHTML, Pocket Web Edit, WebEdit PDA, TextCodePalm, TextWeb Palm Editor, HandTxT...?
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:02 PM   #42
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urban75: Thanks for the ideas, but I think that DragonHtml (or DragonHTML) stands out pretty well. I'm happy with this name for now. I also like the name DragonEdit, but I'm not sure how to market this as two kinds of products. This is something for me to work on later though.

I've been away on vacation, but I got a lot more work done. Here's the status so far:

File operations are done.
Snippets are mostly done.
File searching is mostly done (including regular expressions, and searching multiple files)
Multiple document support is done (it's in a popup now, instead of tabs)

I'm working on CSS support now. It's coming along nicely, but it's going to be a lot of work. I'm basically writing a full CSS editor into DragonHtml, a combination of Dreamweaver's and Coffecup HTML's CSS wizards. You'll be able to edit existing CSS elements, add new ones, remove them, etc. It will be very nice
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Old 02-15-2005, 04:26 PM   #43
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just checking in on how the development is going... there have been about 3 applications I have been waiting for... I just downloaded the landscape app for my th55... this is next on my list!!!! (the other is life@hand organiser)
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Old 02-15-2005, 04:40 PM   #44
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There's still quite a while to go on the development of DragonHTML. I'm still working on it

I have it so you can type < and it will pop up a list of all tags. As you type the tag, it will narrow the results. I'm working on doing this for typing space within a tag and having all possible attributes appear. This isn't very difficult, just tedious and time-consuming.

I'm also working on letting users open files of any size. I plan on having this in the first release now. It's a good amount of work. When you open a file off the memory stick, it will copy the file into a Palm database, splitting it up into smaller records. When you edit the file, it edits the database. When you save, it saves to the memory card. When you close files, it deletes their temporary databases. This way you can have as many files as you want open at a time, with the only limit being available RAM, not available dynamic heap space. And files many megabytes in size. I'll add DOC support to this in the future.

I'm probably going to later market this as two different products, DragonEdit and DragonHtml. DragonEdit is DragonHtml without the web editing features, and with a different interface. If you purchase either, you will receive a coupon code for the other product (since they're so similar). DragonEdit will probably be around $9.95, DragonHtml will probably be around $17.95. Do you think this is reasonable? I may offer a discount if you purchase the software through my site using Paypal, rather than through PalmGear or Handango.

I'm getting work done on the CSS editor too. This is also a lot of work. But you will eventually be able to add, edit, and remove CSS attributes. This is a combination of the best parts of the Dreamweaver and the Coffeecup HTML editors' CSS editors. It should be very nice

Please, if you have any feature ideas, LET ME KNOW! I will most likely include them.
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Old 02-15-2005, 08:12 PM   #45
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Here's my free advice:

Keep it to one product. There is not enough differentiation in the feature sets. One will always be viewed as crippled. You will have fewer headaches with one codebase in the long term. Plus, anyone who wants just a simple editor on the Palm can already have that, so the DragonEdit product would also be hard to distinguish from the competition, let alone the companion product.

Then, drop the price to $14.95. That seems to be a real sweet spot.

For features, think preview in NetFront/Palm Browser, import from NetFront/URL, upload via FTP (preferably SFTP), CSS editor. Those are what will make it stand out and seem to be what people are clamoring for. (I'd like syntax highlighting too, but I can understand how difficult that may be.) These are head and shoulders above the competition features.

Set up your own site to handle PayPal purchasing (they can accept any credit card) and make sure it ties into your password registration system and sends the password based on the email account or the device name. Be clear about what upgrades will be free. Since this is a business tool, feel free to only offer bug fixes for free. Serious customers will want to see an improved tool and will pay for upgrades that have some meat to them.

Finally, think about whether there are some good companion programs to your product, e.g. HTML, CSS, PHP Palm references, an email client that wants HTML editing, a photo editor/uploader, blogging software, and get them interested in your product as a component to theirs or as part of a bundle. There is SFTP software that might work well in a bundle if you can't include this. It'd also be nice to see interactivity in these. Maybe people who sell Palm Wifi cards might be interested in a bundle or less feature rich program such as a trial. Since you can sell this on your own, they really need to add some value to be of interest.
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