PDAngry

For a consumer product that's supposed to make my life easier, it sure is becoming a pain to get this T3 to do what I want to do. Okay, so maybe I only paid $350 dollars for it, but I still don't expect to be nickle & dimed in $20 intervals just to get basic functionality. Why can't I have the same contacts entry in two different categories? Why won't the SMS program tell me the name of the sender, rather than just the phone number? Why wasn't I initially able to directly manipulate files? Why do I have to pay twenty dollars for AOL IM when it's free on my PC? Why did I just pay $15 for a media player that won't even let me skip ahead in audio files, save playlists, or even display the ID tag info for ogg files (I'm talking about MMPlayer). Why doesn't the photo viewer zoom? ZOOM?! How basic is that? What is going on, here?

Shrink

Maybe you should've done a little more research. Sorry about your disappointment.
alan

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lesliefranke

Why did you not ask? In all seriousness, for most tasks you with to do with your Palm you can find a open source or freeware program that will do the job just as well. You just need to do some more searching.

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kennyd

I do have to agree that the development of the Palm platform has become far too dependant upon third party software development. I have been using palm devices for three years and have felt like Palm has failed to support OS enhancement on a more universal scale. I feel like the palm community has built its base on the function and development of software on the devices, not the core OS. My first palm device, the Visor Neo, had placed an OEM version of DtBk+ in the rom. Sony and Palm began adding some office suite options. Sony on the TH has developed a PIM suite for the TH. Some internet suites have also come packaged on some devices. I think that some of these steps were in the right direction, but I feel like it would have been wiser for PalmSource to have taken a bigger step of leadership in providing more enhancement's as basic and universal offerings as a part of the os. Users could take it or leave it, but an offering of better software as a basic os priviledges would have made a big difference.

For example, the majority of Palm users immediately upgrade the pim functionality. Consistently you see trends that gravitate toward DtBk5 or Agendus. I think that what users are saying by the majority of purchases is, "the oem PIM suite is defficient for effective use". Palm would have done well to have been more aggressive in recognizing the feature needs of users and including the solutions as an OS priviledge. I don't think that it was a bad idea for hardware developers to add some software titles to hardware purchases, but I think that Palm should have provided a better software model for ALL palm device packages. From this point any other additional software is only further breaking the bounds of current functionality.

In short I am trying to communicate that I feel like Palm should have been more aggressive in providing better software for what has become evident as the most basic uses of palm devices. In my opinion these universal offerings should have more sensitive the needs communicated by the software development and enhancements that are most widely utilized by end users.

PPC from the begining has offered a much more powerful OS base. Palm has stayed ahead only by means of third party software development. In the early years there was a lot of free offerings as the community sought to enhance the function of the device. Palm themselves should have been just as agressive as the community was in enhancing functionality on the software base. Palm's slow pace in this area is now taking its toll.

Do the math. Purchase a PPC with BT, WiFi, and large battery capacity. Now purchase a palm of equal hardware functionality (oops there isn't a new palm on the market with that functionality, pretend there was so add $100 to the T3) Now start putting as equivelent software suite together that is basic to ALL ppc's. Compare the functionality and cost of each basic unit including how much it really cost to make them equivelent. PPC comes out ahead and has been there in the basic unit for quite some time. Palm has followed PPC in terms of VG (that aren't universal on palm devices), office suites (that aren't universal on palm devices), internet suites (that aren't universal on palm devices), multiple input methods (that aren't universal on palm devices), outlook integration (that aren't universal on palm devices), hand written notes (that not only are not universal on palm devices but ppc has built in function that can't even be utilized on palm devices anymore, that being TealNotes), image viewing software (that aren't universal on palm devices), video software (that isn't universal on palm devices)...I know that there are some freeware offerings for Palm out there that might take care of some of these issues, but the point is that much of these have found a majority enough need that there should have been more aggressive development on Palm's part to make these offerings robust and functional.

I really like Palm, and love my Zodiac, but I have spent a lot of money on software to make my device consistently effecient and effective. I might have had an office suite on my T3 though limited, but to have it on my Zod I had to purchase it. I might have had an internet/email/sms suite on my T3, but to have it on my Zod I had to purchase it. I'm happy with my product now, but I wish I just would have started with ppc which is were in a couple of years I'm sure I'm going to be anyway. I would have spent less money in the long run.

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TMann

I have a couple of thoughts on this issue...

First of all, I think we should all remember that those of use who post on this website are power users and that for most users, the standard apps seem to work pretty well. Isn't there some oft quoted statistic about how 90% of Palm users won't install any 3rd party apps at all...ever? Now I don't know if that figure is really accurate, but I am guessing that it is the case that most people don't need to add a lot of extras to use their Palms.

After reading this thread, I actually looked at my own Palm device, a Tungsten T3. I have purchased a lot of third party applications, but none of them were the ones that the original poster mentioned. I still use the standard PIM apps, the supplied music program (Real Player,) e-mail program (VersaMail) and web browser (WebPro.)

The other problem that can arise if a company starts bundling too many programs with their device is that it puts third party software developers out of business. Who's going to buy Agendus, DateBk, SmartListToGo, etc. if the Palm starts bundling one of these apps with their device. As a real life example, I wonder how the sales of WordSmith have done over the past few years, as DocsToGo has been bundled with most of the recent Palms.

So I guess I would have to say there are many of us who are quite satisified with the current bundle of software that Palm has included. It won't satisfy all of the power users out there, but it works pretty well for most of us.

TMann

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Vidge

I've been a long time Palm user, going back to the original Pilot 5000 in 1996. My T3 is my 10th Palm OS unit. IMHO, Palm has come a long way in terms of functionality built into the OS that was previously only available via 3rd party software. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of applications that were rendered useless by their inclusion in the OS:
- SwitchHack - this simple program allowed users to swipe an area and bring up a list of recently used programs. The user could then select one and go to that program. On my T3, I tap and hold on the home icon and get similar functionality.
- MenuHack - another simple program that allowed you to tap on the menu bar at the top of an application to bring up the menus. This is also included in the OS now.
- CardExport - program allows you to mount the SD card as a drive on your computer. Sony implemented this first as MSImport. Palm now has implemented it as Drive Mode on the T5.

In looking at the PIMs on my T3, Palm has done a tremendous job of adding functionality, as well as some eye candy that folks have been clamouring for. I now can have more than one address per contact. I can have birthdays. I can use a Today-like screen in the datebook and assign colors to events. I can have the location of the event. On the newer units, I can assign backgrounds on the launcher screen. The memo pad has been expanded from 4K to 32K.

As I look at the third party applications I have on my T3, most I would not have wanted as a part of the OS, simply because I doubt most people would use the same applications that I use. Sometimes, people move to third party software without even trying the builtin applications. I gave serious consideration to using the buit-in Calendar application when I first got my T3 but my needs drive my use of DB5. I don't want the OS to be able to do all the things that program does, simply because the OS would be so bloated.

Finally, for me, a lot of the added functionality that folks want built in is something I'm not willing to pay for as a part of a base unit. I don't watch videos on my PDA but if I did, Kimona works. I only occasionally listen to music and the Real Player works just fine. All the images I want to view I can view, and my T3 works with Outlook out of the box. I prefer QuickOffice to DTG, just as I prefer PlanMaker and TextMaker to PocketExcel and PocketWord.

One thing that drives the cost of desktop PCs is the bundled software. I don't want to see the bundled software drive the cost of PDAs out of sight for things I don't want or need.

edit - one thing I forgot to mention. I would like to see Palm units have built-in Wifi. I can honestly say that I have appreciated having it on my PPC and would like to have a option to buy a Palm unit with it built in (and without a keyboard - no TC here). But that's hardware, not OS.

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GadgetGuru

Media Player: Kinoma (Bundled)
Audio Player: Real (bundled)
File management : Filez (freeware)
AOL IM: Free on AOL UK site (at least it was last time I checked - last week)

You are out $0 thus far. Most PPC save the high-end ones comes with basic photo viewer and no SMS app to boot. So software wise, I feel it's about equal out of the box.

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kennyd

Most devices that I have owned do have added software that does come with it. I am just addressing the fact that the base palm os that is consistent between hardware mnftrs does not include any of the features that I mentioned in my post "universaly". Some manufacturers provide this software some do not, and there is not consistency as to added software between manufacturers.

I might be wrong, but in my opinion Palm has not been aggressive in developing "as" effective software in their base distribution as what PPC distributes with there's. The point that many do not add software to their device is kind of the point I am trying to make. When users look at a PPC vs a palm on the floor of a retailer they will see a lot more on the PPC consistently between devices than what they will see on the palm. I think people are wanting a more robust unit off of the shelf.

The issue with consistency found in the ppc software bundles relates more to upgrade fanatics than others. ie someone may love working with the TH55 enhanced pim's but they will never find that on another device. Someone may have liked versamail on a palm but they will never use that on another mgrs device. On the ppc they will.

Like I said I may be wrong about consumers preferences, but when you look at the market palm is dropping the ball somewhere. I obviously can't be too dogmatic on this. But I would imagine that there is a difference on an ovrall money spent on addon's from the palm to ppc community.

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Vidge

It still depends on what add ons you need. Unless you get TextMaker & PlanMaker on the $11.11 sale, they are pretty pricey. And DTG comes bundled with most Palms. You can ignore Sony for now since they are out of the business.

And while *some* people want more "robust" handhelds out of the box, I don't think they are the majority. If that were the case, why does the Zire21 and the base X30 (no wireless) sell well?

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TheRealZero

coughwarezcough

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kennyd

I'm discussing more of the software end of the device than the hardware. I only say that most seem to prefer more robust than what is provided for two reasons.
1. The amount of people that I am aware of who spend the money for more enhanced pim's. There is a very large crowd who covers the Agendus/DtBk5 spectrum. There are some consistencies between these two applications that are not accomodated in the built ins.

2. PPC's that are equiped universally with a more robust system are selling better than palms. And considering having to pay extra for more out of the box system. PPC's are cheaper than palms and come with a more robust system. If users don't like more, then they do not have to use them. But all users are enjoying the priviledge of a more robust out of the box software options. Again, I know that some devices do provide added software, but not all of the palm devices do. It is up to each hardware developer to provide added software, it is not a priviledge of the os (palm providing less than ppc out of the box)

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madkins007

If PDAngry logs back in, my questions would be...

1.) Why would you assume that a basic device, either the Palm or the PPC unit, would fit ALL of your needs out of the box? Did your computer do this?

2.) Why would PalmOne or any other company pre-load their devices with the software you mentioned when most of us would not pay the extra fees such would require. These are what YOU want, not what the entire community wants, although that is a common mistake, even in forums like this.

3.) The Palm was ALWAYS designed, from the beginning, to use third-party programs to customize the device to the end user. Heck, even Palm Desktop was supposed to be supplimented or replaced by other options. This is actually one o fhte biggest strengths of the platform.

4.) I can sympathize with the 'nickel and dime to death' thought. Sometimes, I add up everything I have spent over the years and get alternately ticked and depressed. On the other hand- the vast majority of Palm software is dirt cheap compared to Windows stuff and a LOT of it is free (and quite a bit of the free stuff is GREAT!)

I am sorry you feel gypped, but I would not give up my T3 for a PPC unless PPCs got a lot better.

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stevejohnson460

Hmm. I don't think I was surprised by the "added costs." It seems the same in the PC world: you CAN use notepad and paint, but you're probably going to want a little more muscle.

BTW, I also have a stable of third party software, yet still use the built-in PIM.

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WVOz1970

I'm gonna have to stand up for my T3 here as well. I've been a Palm OS user for about 4 years now. In those four years, I can probably count on one hand the times I've had a "catastrophic" crash requiring a hard reset. It's also rare that I have to do soft resets. Usually when I install something in the wrong way.

Contrast that to PPC... it's really only been in the last year or so that the OS seems to have become more stable (At least that's what my PPC user friends tell me). They've told me tales of resets/freezes and the like that make me just cringe.

I also find that even though I'm more of a power user, I've probably only bought 5 or 6 programs in my Palm career. I've usually found freeware or been able to use what was already on the machine. My most recent purchase was MMPlayer and I love it (OK... actually my almost 3 year old loves it). I've been condensing all of his DVDs down into DivX and putting them on my SD card so he can watch when we're travelling or otherwise delayed. Believe me... it was worth much more than the $15 to keep him occupied at any given moment.

I don't think I've ever spent more than $20 on software for my machine. Most PPC software seems to *start* in the $20 range.

Bottom line though... research what you're getting. Try it out. If you don't like it, return it and get what makes you happy. You're the one who's got to live with it. As for me... I doubt I'll be leaving the Palm platform anytime soon.