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Old 10-07-2004, 09:48 PM   #1
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Sober reflections on T5. What is forgiveable/unforgiveable...

I posted this over at PIC and figured I'ld do the same here:

IMO, the ommision of certain features are forgivable, while other are not. First, the forgivable features that are ommitted:

-NO Cobalt: You really can't blame PalmOne if rumors that Cobalt really wasn't ready for prime time are true. The T5 was probably in design phase for a long time, and the decison to use Garnet is excusable in this setting.

-No Palm Universal Connector: Really, PalmOne could have avoided this whole mess if they hadn't called it "Universal" from the beginning. PalmOne had supported the PUC for 3-4 years now, and it is understandable that they would want to move on from this legacy interface. I know alot of PalmOne users are pissed b/c they accessories will no longer be compatible, but I can accept this decision if it means more variability in the choices of peripherals in the future.

Now the Unforgivable features that are ommitted:

-No Voice Recorder: WTF is up with that? For $400 bucks, this should be a default feature like it is on almost any other pda in this price range. How can P1 market the T5 as a "business pda" and not have an integrated voice recorder or mic? The explantion that 'oh, most users don't use a vc anyway' is extremely lame. What kind of rationalization is that? PalmOne has to realize consmers will be comparing spec sheets and this ommision has to be glaring. Why are they removing features that is present in they lower end pda (T3)? Shouldn't the T5 as their flag-ship also have a voice recorder?

-Lack of Vibrating Alarms: This is another massive failure of this device. Again, how can they ommit such an important feature in a deice supposedly marketed towards business users? Don't business users need vibrating alarms to notify them of meetings? The ommision of this is just retarded. And again, I don't want to hear that crap about "users don't need that or they don't use it" nonsense. What next, do they want to remove the audio-out b/c most users use iPods instead of pdas to listen to music?

Now finally there is the question of wifi. I didn't list it as an 'unforgiveable' ommission b/c it squarely has to do with the price and naming of this device. To put it succinctly, if PalmOne was smart enough to name this the "TE2" instead of the T5 and priced it ~$100 bucks cheaper, then no one would really be b!tching about the lack of wifi. But it isn't and now PalmOne had a marketing catastrophe on their hands. I still think the T5 can be a successfull device for PalmOne, but they will have to quickly and drastically cut the price of the unit to do so imo...

Finally, from the various previews posted, it's nice to know that T5 case isn't as cheap looking as the TE. Too bad the internal specs don't live up to it's outward appearence though! : Any thoughts?
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Old 10-07-2004, 09:58 PM   #2
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-No Cradle: My Gosh!! All previous Tungstens have had a cradle!!! What's wrong with P1?
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:17 PM   #3
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There's too much negativism about the T5.

I know I never use the Voice Record function, and the vibrating alarms don't add much in my opinion. I did use the button to launch Hi-Launcher, though.
The lack of a slider is also alright, I don't have an opinion one way or the other.
I love the internal flash drive, and the ability to use it on other computers. This is obviously the big selling point, and is something that I haven't seen on any PDA previously.
The use of plastic instead of metal isn't a huge problem, as long as it's sturdy. My NX73V was plastic.
Obviously I would be thrilled to have WiFi. The fact that it lacks it is definite disadvantage. But I don't think it will be the death of PalmOne as we know it.

They are obviously modeling it after the Tungsten E. I don't blame them, that is their best-selling model.
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poissonsouriant
They are obviously modeling it after the Tungsten E. I don't blame them, that is their best-selling model.


Then they should price it like the TE!
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:35 PM   #5
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I just can't believe we waited a year for this plastic toy. Indeed, the casing feels and looks very cheap. It will get scratches all over it in no time at all, like the TE. They promised Cobalt, but it's not included. It has bluetooth, but nobody wants that, it should have come with WiFi. The universal connector has gone, so your hardware that uses this goes to the garbage bin. No voice recorder... no camera... guess I'll stick to my Sony TH55 though it's not perfect.
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Old 10-08-2004, 06:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clie Patra
I just can't believe we waited a year for this plastic toy. Indeed, the casing feels and looks very cheap.


How do you know what it feels like?
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Old 10-08-2004, 09:38 AM   #7
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Seeing as they called it a T5 i.e. a implied next step in the Tungsten line, I'm having a really hard time figuring out what $399US buys over a T3?

They removed:

- voice memo
- vibrating alerts
- universal connector
- slider
- cradle

They did not add:

- OS6 ( I guess it's just for simulator users and press releases)
- a substantially faster CPU
- any more useable RAM i.e. for programs to be run from, still 55MB
- a better screen (OLED)
- WiFI
- Better BT
- Dual SD Slots

From a hardware perspective all that I can see they added was a better battery, and built in a USB 160MB drive

If they had called it the TE2 or Palm XRG I'd be ok with it

Last edited by matrix42 : 10-08-2004 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 10-08-2004, 10:25 AM   #8
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[QUOTE=gfunkmagic]I posted this over at PIC and figured I'ld do the same here:

IMO, the ommision of certain features are forgivable, while other are not. First, the forgivable features that are ommitted:

-NO Cobalt: You really can't blame PalmOne if rumors that Cobalt really wasn't ready for prime time are true. The T5 was probably in design phase for a long time, and the decison to use Garnet is excusable in this setting.

-No Palm Universal Connector: Really, PalmOne could have avoided this whole mess if they hadn't called it "Universal" from the beginning. PalmOne had supported the PUC for 3-4 years now, and it is understandable that they would want to move on from this legacy interface. I know alot of PalmOne users are pissed b/c they accessories will no longer be compatible, but I can accept this decision if it means more variability in the choices of peripherals in the future.

Now the Unforgivable features that are ommitted:

-No Voice Recorder: WTF is up with that? For $400 bucks, this should be a default feature like it is on almost any other pda in this price range. How can P1 market the T5 as a "business pda" and not have an integrated voice recorder or mic? The explantion that 'oh, most users don't use a vc anyway' is extremely lame. What kind of rationalization is that? PalmOne has to realize consmers will be comparing spec sheets and this ommision has to be glaring. Why are they removing features that is present in they lower end pda (T3)? Shouldn't the T5 as their flag-ship also have a voice recorder?

-Lack of Vibrating Alarms: This is another massive failure of this device. Again, how can they ommit such an important feature in a deice supposedly marketed towards business users? Don't business users need vibrating alarms to notify them of meetings? The ommision of this is just retarded. And again, I don't want to hear that crap about "users don't need that or they don't use it" nonsense. What next, do they want to remove the audio-out b/c most users use iPods instead of pdas to listen to music?/QUOTE]

Yes.. of course... if everyone used an ipod, what would be the point of leaving audio in?... And yes, if P1 polls showed that no one used the voice recorder, of course you take it out! Why would you leave unused functions in any product?.. (a good example is cigarete lighters in cars... more and more new cars have moved the heating coil from lighters in cars leaving just the 12V out socket to power goods).

Personally i dont use the voice recorder, but I expect others do.. What i would question is where P1 got the information that said no one uses voice recorder. If that info is legitimnate though, then yep, get rid of the function.

You know there are soo many negative posts about the T5, yet this device is bound to do well and i expect P1 will make good money on it and the people in these forums will be eating their worlds..

Funnily i am already seeing people that last week were cursing and puffing about the T5, all seemingly changing their tune now about the device.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 10-08-2004, 10:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clie Patra
I just can't believe we waited a year for this plastic toy. Indeed, the casing feels and looks very cheap. It will get scratches all over it in no time at all, like the TE. They promised Cobalt, but it's not included. It has bluetooth, but nobody wants that, it should have come with WiFi. The universal connector has gone, so your hardware that uses this goes to the garbage bin. No voice recorder... no camera... guess I'll stick to my Sony TH55 though it's not perfect.


Your sticking with your 'plastic' TH55?.. or is the TH55 metal?

How long did you want them to keep the UC?.. another year?.. 5 years?.. 10 years?.. 50 years?.. Times change.. the fact that the connector lasted so long is suprising.
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Old 10-08-2004, 10:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Yes.. of course... if everyone used an ipod, what would be the point of leaving audio in?... And yes, if P1 polls showed that no one used the voice recorder, of course you take it out! Why would you leave unused functions in any product?.. (a good example is cigarete lighters in cars... more and more new cars have moved the heating coil from lighters in cars leaving just the 12V out socket to power goods).



A better car analogy would be cruise control, which is something that nearly everyone uses on a car, but only occaisionally. What is the perceived value of an option that you seldom use, but is nice to have if you need it?

You see two cars on a lot, both have the same price, style and engine. One has every option under the sun (including the cig. lighter), many of which you feel you will never need.

The other one is stripped down.

Which one do you choose? Keep in mind, they are the same price.
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Old 10-08-2004, 12:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmhiker
A better car analogy would be cruise control, which is something that nearly everyone uses on a car, but only occaisionally. What is the perceived value of an option that you seldom use, but is nice to have if you need it?

You see two cars on a lot, both have the same price, style and engine. One has every option under the sun (including the cig. lighter), many of which you feel you will never need.

The other one is stripped down.

Which one do you choose? Keep in mind, they are the same price.


Good analogy, but when do you see it?.. If we stick to cars, you might see that sort of a comparison between say a mercedes and a ford... the ford having every know gadet to cars etc... I'd go for the merc every day of the week and twice on sundays.

Plus, whilst evry car model in the states may have cruise control, in europe, only the top of the range cars of each model have cruise control... Either than or its an expensive option, because not many people use it.
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Old 10-08-2004, 12:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gero
Your sticking with your 'plastic' TH55?.. or is the TH55 metal?

How long did you want them to keep the UC?.. another year?.. 5 years?.. 10 years?.. 50 years?.. Times change.. the fact that the connector lasted so long is suprising.

The TH55 is made of a better quality plastic. And the universal connector still has a lot going for it, not only the fact that a lot of people have expensive addons that use it. Times change, that's true, but usually ahead, not reverse.
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Old 10-08-2004, 12:59 PM   #13
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Brass tacks: The T|5 is not bad. It's just not particularly good.
I consider the T|5 a typical Palm evolution from the T|3.

Out of curiosity, can anyone remember how much the T|3 was when it first came out?
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Old 10-08-2004, 01:41 PM   #14
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The TH55 employs the same connector as the NX series. My NX-70V cradle doesn't fit the TH55, but the AC chargers and sync cables are interchangeable.

In my mind the greatest sin of the T|5 is the omission of Cobalt. At Fry's 128 MB USB flash drives cost $20 and 256 MB drives run for $30.

BTW, no one knows for sure how well the T|5 will sell. My hunch is it's simply too expensive for the target market. It's 100% more expensive than the T|E, not just 25 or 50%. If the T|5 bombs many here will say we told you so. That assumes we get honest sales figures from Palmone.
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Old 10-08-2004, 02:00 PM   #15
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The omission of OS6 is not a massive deal breaker IMHO.

Frankly, I'm very skeptical of OS6 atm - The thing I'm most concerned about on my PDA is it's functionality. When I went from a T665 to my (kickass!) TH55, moving from OS4 to OS5 broke a bunch of really handy utilities that aren't maintained any more. With the TH55, the gains outweighed the losses but, from what I have heard, OS6 will be even worse in terms of backwards compatibility, and on top of that I'll probably loose even more cool stuff this time going to a PALM device from a Clie! (I'm 99% certain I'll loose Decuma, PicselViewer, the Flash player, Graffiti 1 (<- This is a BIG BIG loss for me!!!), and I reckon most if not all of my Desk Accessories and all of Sharky's cool apps will get broken by OS6... gah, I don't wanna think about this anymore, it's too scary!!)

I intend to judge OS6 on it's own merits, not as a PalmOS, because the only thing PalmOS about it is it's looks and the fact that it has a POSE emulator built into it. You could do that on a PPC if the POSE source was available!

I do wonder why Palm dumped their UC - I wasn't aware of any show-stopping limitations with it...
Admittedly I haven't seen this new USB connector it has in action yet, but if I was them I woulda introduced the new connector with the OS6 device - If you're gonna break compatibility, better to do it all in one go than piece-meal!

Sony had the right idea - Standardising on a single connector (i.e. the T-series one) was definitely the right way to go!
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