zhamilton1

Meet my friend "napm" (User name) he helps me not in the programming as he told you but rather in management and he is doing a good job in that. (:
I met him where I do my public service instead of the army... whoo... (:

I found a limit in my current OBS implementation. I found an alternative but boy is it complicated. The limit is the record limit in a database. That means I could only have a maximum of 64000 objects (excluding forms, controls and other items).

Q: Would it ever get that high? Does anyone have more than 64000 files? Would they never need that amount? This is talking about all "common" cards in thier possetion...

The OBS keeps locally information of "common" cards and keeps temp info on non "common" cards. Common cards are cards you useally keep which is basicly a timer. If not used for a long time, the data is deleted. If used once the timer is reset. (:

My new design does not edit memory in place but rather in dynamic memory. You modify it as much as you want and then write it back. This allows it to be compatible with cards. It also allows encryption and compression capabilites (not in the first version!!!). However I will not implement this if the object limit is reached.

Why dont I span onto multiple databases, because I want the OS to be as clean as possible, At the moment I have cut it down to 2 files the main prc and the main db, nothing else...

The programmers is the key to the OS success, therefore we (me and napm) are thinking on different ways to make it attractive. Thanks 'iebnn' for the ideas. (:

I have got rid of the draw component and merged it into the form component. This is because its useless to have draw functions seperate since forms dont have off-screen windows. Therefore when a draw needs to be done, a message is sent to the application to draw the custom controls. Normal controls are drawn by the system.

I have solved my on-screen graffiti issue. My new way is to only supply the feature when needed for example editing fields. Therefore when you click on a field, it grows and uses the large font (easier for selection). When this happens, any drags are converted to graffiti marks unless all the strokes are in the field itself which then it converts it to selections. if you click outside the field, it grows back to its original size and on-screen graffiti is disabled. What do you think?

The first version will not support backgrounds on forms, but will support a background on the "home" form (desktop in pc-terms).

Screens uses the standard 22x22 icons but does not use the small icons. They are too small to identify and therefore waste space.

There are now 3 main components for me to write:
Chunk Manager - Deals with allocation/free of memory chunks
Form Manager - Deals with all form related functionality including controls.
Message Manager - Deals with multi-tasking and calling functions from outside of the OS (instead of libaries).

I'll be going now.... Keep updated...

__________________
Zakai Hamilton
Screens Environment Designer+Coder
MSN+Email: zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk
Blog: http://www.screensenvironment.blogspot.com

iebnn

I personally would not like growing and shrinking fields when I'm using an application. Also,, what are you going to do if another control is almost immediately below the field? Programmers aren't going to want to have to code things to move controls around when fields are selected, and it might look funny to have overlapping controls. People already select text within fields of a normal size, and I haven't heard any complains about it, so what is the problem?

Make sure you add a color themes option, people really like to be able to customize things. Have lots of customization options. (think of zlauncher)

What about the hires icons? Please support these.

Have you thought about making a large database and using the file streaming functions etc to code your own database functions that work with over 64k records? Not sure if it would work, but maybe.

And I don't think that users would mind having a few databases created by your OS (seeing as they're not PDBs that they have to install themselves, but are created by your OS in the background. It only affects them if they look at a list of databases on the device, since it would just list a couple extra for your application). You could even make them hidden, so the standard delete etc dialogs dont show the extra databases (but better file managers still will). Just make sure you don't sacrifice usability/speed/etc just so that you can have your OS contained in 2 pdb/prcs, because it's not worth it.

As for graffiti -- what about the shortcut graffiti stroke? People don't do that in fields.

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zhamilton1

It's really a pop-up, the form does not actually shrink or grow. The idea is that it only grows a bit, you can still click on the control above and below.

I will make the pop up an option. Nearly everything is customizable in the OS. I am personally counting on it to be. If there is a flag, I'll supply some GUI to change it. I don't want any secret options however easter eggs are a favorite... (:

The OS allows to customize colors, save them and beam them to other users easily.

HiRes (known as High Density) Icons are included but only on HiRes devices. There is no point on low-res devices to have HUGE icons. Do you agree?

I'll be working on the chunk system for the next couple of days, and I'll post here when it's finalized. Speed and Space are my requirements for the manager.

I am also working on my menu system. The / stroke might be implemented in a different way on-screen although on the silk graffiti the command stroke will still work.

Thanks iebnn for your input, its been very helpful (:

__________________
Zakai Hamilton
Screens Environment Designer+Coder
MSN+Email: zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk
Blog: http://www.screensenvironment.blogspot.com

iebnn

Please don't have the popup be on by default then. I really don't think its such a good idea. People are already able to select text alright with the regular font size.

Have some good builtin color themes, since some people aren't as creative with colors or don't feel like taking the time to find a nice combination etc.

I agree on the point of the icons. However, it may be nice to include it as an option?? If the person categorizes their apps a lot, then large icons may be okay.

Is your OS going to support full themes? I think this would be a very nice thing to have, even though it does not add functionality etc. One of the reasons I use zlauncher at the moment is because it supports the background image and has a bunch of nice graphical themes. Being able to skin the entire OS would be really cool. You could do it similarly to zlauncher and have the (large) theme databases be optional, and default to a standard type of theme that is built into the OS for those who want to save space.

I'm sorry but I'm not clear one something -- will a user be able to have multiple windows open at the same time? This could potentially be very useful, for things such as a type of desk accessory (having a calculator open while typing a word document). How about somehow being able to open multiple instances of the same application? This could be useful with browsers, irc clients for multiple servers, etc etc. Also, how are you going to show which form is active? Dim the colors for non-active ones, change the title bar color?? Have an option for either?

As for beaming... are you making it seamless so that a user can use bluetooth, wifi, irda, etc for the same thing depending on which he has available or which he chooses to use? Perhaps check if another bt device is in range, and if not check for irda, etc and if multiple devices are in range, let the user select which to send it to?

How will sending messages to other applications be handled? Just by using some launch code, the same way we've been doing it?

Will app icons be automatically organized or will we be able to choose how they are organized (their order, position on screen)? Are they categorized? Do you use some kind of cascading menu similar to windows?

Will you have support for forms of non-standard dimensions? Will the user be able to resize certain forms that developers add resize support to (for example, in a jpeg viewing application)? This would be useful if you have support for viewing multiple forms at the same time.

How about WAV (or some other kind of format) sounds (or midi to save space) for different events?

What will your OS do with the virtual graffiti? Maybe change it to suit your OS better? Have it so that developers can interface with it (like for an email app that can display notification of new mail in your graffiti area, or possibly the status bar)? You could make the standard one a lot nicer.

Once you get to the stage of developing a music player, I have a lot of ideas for you

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zhamilton1

First of all, I am very happy to know that you are active in the project. (:

I have had a meeting with napm (wont desclose his name for privacy issues) and we have solved and answered most most of your questions so here I go...

1. Youre right about the popup issue. Users do not like things jumping up all the time. I will not even include the feature in the first version.

2. I am planning to include alot of color themes. Users just like me love customizing and that is the feeling I want to give.

3. I will include the HiRes icons option for low-res devices however the default will be disabled.

4. One of the problems with theming an OS is that things are not fixed like ZLauncher. However things that are fixed like controls looks and the system bar look will be themeable. I will try to make it as easy as possible to add new themes and might even include a few.

5. Yes, Think of the OS just like MS Windows desktop system. You can have multiple windows switch between them in a tap and move them around and size them. Full powered but designed for a small device. (:
Forms have bold title text when active and normal title text when non-active and have color changes.
Multiple instances of forms is also supported.

6. Apart form IRDA support the first version will not include bluetooth, WIFI support yet. However I DO plan to make a big shake with the wireless world by adding peer to peer networking.

7. Applications not only can send messages to each other (using the multi-tasking system) but can plug-in to forms and add functionality easily.

8. As to the way icons are I cant answer that since I have not designed the launcher part just yet, but I will release details when that part is reached. (:

9. Yes, programmers can set forms to be transparent which does slow things down (since the background forms have to be redrawn). If a programmer includes a size control on a form, the size feature is done automaticly.

10. music will not be supported in the first version but rather as a very close update after the first version. The idea is to release the OS with what is neccessary.

11. The first version does not modify the virtual graffiti however will use the extra space for a higher resolution...

I have to go, so I'll visit tommorow... (;

__________________
Zakai Hamilton
Screens Environment Designer+Coder
MSN+Email: zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk
Blog: http://www.screensenvironment.blogspot.com

cbulock

I love the idea of having resizable windows and such, but how this this work with current applications? Will they have fixed sizes (like 160x160, 240x240, 320x320)?

__________________
-Cameron

zhamilton1

The OS does not support existing PalmOS applications without modification however it does close the OS to run them as normal therefore not becoming a barrier between new products and old ones.

The way I have designed the size feature depends on how the developer draw his form. Each control can be positioned from one corner and end at another (no size to a control just a start and end point). Each position can be calculated from a certain corner.
Therefore when you size the form the positions of the controls are recalculated.

I have to go now, I hope this answers your question... (:

__________________
Zakai Hamilton
Screens Environment Designer+Coder
MSN+Email: zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk
Blog: http://www.screensenvironment.blogspot.com

iebnn

Ah I forgot, you're doing away with the virtual graffiti area for applications that run within your OS? What about the FITALY people, or the QWERTY people?

Is your avatar a screenshot of your OS?!!! If so, those are ugly colors ;-/ :P. The scrollbar looks like it takes up a bit too much space though (too wide). And the border on the left and top is larger than the border on the right and bottom.

Thanks for answering my questions and concerns
Definitely try to add WAV/etc support to your OS for at least things like events as soon as possible after the first release. Maybe a custom alarm system that supports multiple WAV alarms?

As for the task bar you have.. please let developers interface with it! (something like a systray??)

I'm just so excited about coding for a multi tasking-esque OS, I've got so many ideas.

And I can't wait until I get my damn X-forge SDK for the helix ;/
How about support for rotating the screen? The helix can be used with a rotated screen, and would work nice with your OS.

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iebnn

Oh and...

please send an SDK and possibly a beta version of your OS to developers as soon as possible. It does not matter if everything is implemented in the OS (obviously it is not ready yet though), just enough so that apps can run and do everything possible. You can send it before finishing the OS interface, themes, colors, etc though. This is critical, since no one will be too excited about downloading it the day it comes out when there is no software for it yet. Give developers a couple months (hopefully), and tell them an approximate time it will be released so they know when they should have their product ready by. Have an NDA so that they cant go around telling people about the approximate date (since it is only a guess) etc.

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napm

Iebnn: Because of the low resolution required for an avatar, it's hard to tell that those aren't scrollbars, but 'option boxes' (not their real name). When tapped, they pop-up a helpful display for that particular editbox. For example: a 'Date' editbox would pop-up a calender, and a 'Number' editbox would pop-up a numberpad which would include low-level calculation abilities.
Neat, huh?
Just thought I should clear that up.

napm

I've finally succeeded in convincing Zakai: Let's give 'em a peek!

http://www.geocities.com/zhamilton1/SL-5-11.gif

Please keep in mind that this is VERY preliminary, and that we would appreciate your input.

zhamilton1

Remember to do Save as... and not Open. (:

Please tell us your thoughts...

Answers for iebnn:
Users can use either 320x320 or 320x480 therefore leaving the virtual graffiti or using its space to expand the workspace of the OS.

The wav/midi support will be very close after the first version however beeps are included. (:

And yes, the system bar interface is changable. For example: when a new file is recieved another icon is displayed in the bar. Tap it to view all new recieved files which you can choose to accept or decline multiple files. (:

Gimme, Gimme ideas... PLEASE!!! Yummy!

I dont know about the rotating bit but I will include it if there is need for it (using 480x320 instead of 320x480).

That's all for now... (:

__________________
Zakai Hamilton
Screens Environment Designer+Coder
MSN+Email: zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk
Blog: http://www.screensenvironment.blogspot.com

iebnn

Wow, a screenshot. I'll comment on that later.

As for virtual graffiti: if you're leaving it in there, please consider making your own. You could do a lot more with it and make it a lot better, since there are probably either a lot of redundancies or some useless things on it. There is a lot of wasted space too. Maybe get rid of it and have it not come up, but have your own little kind of keyboard built into the OS, and have it possible for develoeprs to add keyboards to it (or other input methods). Have it floating so you can move it to wherever on the screen you want, and maybe make it out of vector graphics somehow so you can resize it? Maybe not the last thing though.

Developers will be able to do stuff with the bar at the bottom right?? Please make this flexible!

Please tell me you'll make the buttons in that window skinnable. The buttons, title bar, etc. And maybe even support different color themes for each skin. I think skinners could have a lot of fun with this. It's a lot more interesting than skinning something small and single-shaped like zlauncher.

Maybe have a border (optional? depending on theme?) for text fields? single pixel

I don't like the color choices at all, but that's probably just a test anyway ;/

have it so that you can tap on the speaker icon, and keep holding down and drag up or down to change the volume. or if you let go without moving more than a few pixels, then leave the volume meter open and let them change it (in real time as they move it) without it disappearing until they tap elsewhere. also have a mute option in it

tappingon the battery should also bring up more information. maybe have it so that you hold down to get the info, and it goes away when you stop holding down. or have this optional

maybe an optional analog clock for hires devices? this would give more space on the bar, and looks cool

make the size of the star thing variable depending on the theme

how are you going to fit 10 open window titles into the bar?

icons on the "desktop"?

underlined letters in command buttons so that people can use their keyboard to navigate around. have good keyboard support! see if you can support alt f4 etc

the button for Index is larger than the text field (height)

the border on the left and top is still larger than the border on the right and bottom

have a set of standardized bitmaps for the buttons so if you change themes, it changes them in every app (except for their customized bitmapped buttons of course).

please show me more things in the os in screenshots.

also I'm not sure I like the menu bar button in the top left of each window..... maybe there is a better place?

What about minimize buttons in the title? And a roll-up button so only the title shows (and minimize the width of the window once it is rolled up so only the buttons and title show, and not blank space)?

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iebnn

napm: very neat.

also, maybe let users put the bar on the top as well. and add bars like in linux.. where you could place little applications made just for the bars, and move them around and choose where to put them on which bars (straight from linux, at least in kde, I havent used linux a whole lot but I liked that a lot.). "Gadget" type things.

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