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05-15-2008, 10:40 PM
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#1 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
 |  1SRC Podcast 181
This week we cover Palm's Merrill Lynch presentation, Astraware Platypus gets revewed, the new Windows Mobile Minute, and more! Listen to 1SRC Podcast 181 now! [ details] | 
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05-16-2008, 09:15 AM
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#2 | | Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 302
| Supply problems in the upcoming CDMA Device?!?!? Did he mean the 800w??? And the "System Software Core" part worries me. What about the window managers? I'm anxiously awaiting the new OS  | |
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05-17-2008, 06:52 AM
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#3 | | Registered Nurse
Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Pablo City, Laguna, Philippines
Posts: 318
| Platypus is a great game, reminds me of the old nostalgic games that I used to play before when I was a kid. The Treo 800w is a gerat device on paper, but based on the pictures that circulating around the web I don't like the build quality. In my opinion Palm should continue using the material that they used on the Treo 750 and Tre0 755p, or make a device that is glossy like the Blackberry 9000 bold that will make it look modern in todays standard. | |
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05-17-2008, 07:27 AM
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#4 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal
Posts: 230
| 800w is coming, ok, final (I hate Windows Mobile), whats next? Why doesn't Palm do some different like make a 800pw, with both systems (WM and Palm), PalmOS doesn't cost and money, its theirs. People could this way have a choice and they save some money and use the same hardware buying more hardware at better prices. This way they also can have something competitive that no other can have. Look at the Mac they were out money years ago, then they fought back and today I'm using a Mac with Windows, Linux, all running at the same time as one. If Palm can do this, no one could beat them (because PalmOs is theirs) and when Palm Nova was done, they could have Nova virtualize PalmOS and stick a Windows Mobile in there too. They have to use what they have that no one else has. The 800w could come with Styletap installed and make hoysync work with it.
Oh by the way Palm has had 320x480 for years now and people think its new from the Iphone or even from the Blackberries now with the bold. Why not stick a 480x320 resolution in the next Centro or Treo or 800 something, or just reuse the 500v hardware with PalmOS at 480x320, 500p. Its not that PalmOS doesn't support it, the Tx has it and software have had years to adapt, not like the Blackberry Bold that people have tested it with old apps and there not working well. Wake up palm, please. I'm still a Treo 650 and I love it and the way I have tweaked it up for me (people when they see may setup don't know what I have but they like it) and I want to stay with Palm.
Last edited by danceman : 05-17-2008 at 07:29 AM.
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05-17-2008, 08:52 AM
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#5 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal
Posts: 230
| Just remembered another thing, in a new palm device that could come out, stick PDAreach support. Palm users have had Mobile Companion for years PDAreach and LapLink (I think there are others). And they are cheap, just in install in any windows computer, maybe the eeePC, there you go a Foleo. More cheaper than a RedFly and the Foleo (if it came out), and you got yourself a mobile companion.
We are in a era of Buzzwords by the media, everyone goes with the flow. The Iphone was the first with touchscreen, lol, Mobile Companion RedFly, lol, just a piece of plastic keyboard and screen, the secret is the software, its been done before. Blogs, ipods,podcasts,tags,keywords, we have had all of this way before theses buzzwords. Ok things get better, of course, but they are the same thing with a nice word attached and media support. The Iphone browser, wow, to bad it was first use by Nokia and the engine was made by originally by KDE team, KHTML which then was forked to webkit engine which is now used in lots of different browsers, Nokias browsers, Safari, Konquerer, etc...
Sorry for this buzzword thing, but what I mean is Palm has to go with this flow, lots of companies earning money not by innovation but by Buzzwords and media and carrier help. Palm to make in the world today has to go with this. You don't have to invent a hardware feature (but it helps, example slide Tungstun T and T3), look at HTC Diamond, nothing new, but it is well rapped up and good media converge and software innovation. This last point was one of the special things of Palm, the special sauce, but its not working anymore (thread messaging, search on the today screen, pictures on the today screen is everywhere now). If the 800w doesn't come out with something different, not hardware (they almost put everything, but still a bad camera, no speedometer, the screen is inside the case, etc..), but has to make something stand out from other WM devices, thats what HTC has been doing. Take the media and software innovation of HTC, Nokia's hardware (mostly the best cameras and lens 5mp, vga output to a screen, pick out a webkit open source project), Apples device style and elegance (and glass screen) and marketing and palm may have a winner, the special sauce. Not the zen, thats still with PalmOS  (WM still needs way to much clicks and backs and fronts, I'm lost feeling).
Got a idea, make a Palm Butler keylaunch for WM, they still don't have nothing the same (Samsung came out with a start key press in the i780 but still not the same)
Last edited by danceman : 05-17-2008 at 08:56 AM.
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05-17-2008, 10:31 AM
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#6 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by BaDZeD Supply problems in the upcoming CDMA Device?!?!? Did he mean the 800w??? |
No. The component supply problem is with the CDMA Centro *only*. Knowing this, it kind of makes sense why we haven't seen the VZW Centro yet.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 10:35 AM
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#7 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by Daniel The Treo 800w is a gerat device on paper, but based on the pictures that circulating around the web I don't like the build quality. |
Some things are best left to a visit to the store. Given the option of having the soft touch paint on the Treo 750/755p vs. the paint from say a Centro, 700wx, or a TX, I'd rather have the dull soft touch paint.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 10:49 AM
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#8 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by danceman 800w is coming, ok, final (I hate Windows Mobile), whats next? Why doesn't Palm do some different like make a 800pw, with both systems (WM and Palm), PalmOS doesn't cost and money, its theirs. |
That trick might work for power users who read 1SRC, but you are giving most consumers way to much credit with regard on knowledge of how to use their phones. If moderating the Palm Help Forums has taught me anything, it is that people don't want to read manuals, refuse to use the search feature (many questions are asked over and over and over again), and only use a small portion of the device's overall capabilities. Making a Treo or Centro smartphone dual booting would be a support nightmare. Dual booting or using a VM manager like Parallels to run another OS on a Mac is a little bit different. I do expect that Palm OS II/Nova will be able to emulate Palm OS 3/4/5 to ease the transition. As a matter of fact, today's Palm OS 5 devices *already* emulate Palm OS 3/4 thanks to PACE. Quote: |
Oh by the way Palm has had 320x480 for years now and people think its new from the Iphone or even from the Blackberries now with the bold.
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I know. I own all of the 320x480 devices. And all of the devices that Palm designed, (Palm didn't design the Treo 500v) have touch screens. Quote: |
Why not stick a 480x320 resolution in the next Centro or Treo or 800 something, or just reuse the 500v hardware with PalmOS at 480x320, 500p.
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The Centro is popular because it is almost as small at a regular T9 feature flip phone. Putting in a larger screen will add to the size of the device, which would go against why the masses are buying the Centro in the first place. Palm didn't design the Treo 500v, they worked with an ODM to develop it look like the Centro. Palm's management team, I believe it was Ed Colligan and/or Andy Brown, have already said that the Treo 500 wasn't coming to the States and would remain a GSM Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition device primarily in Europe.
Palm has diverted almost all of their internal resources to working on Palm OS II/Nova and the next generation Treo hardware that Palm OS II/Nova will run on. The first device is still probably 9 months away.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 10:58 AM
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#9 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by danceman Just remembered another thing, in a new palm device that could come out, stick PDAreach support. Palm users have had Mobile Companion for years PDAreach and LapLink (I think there are others). And they are cheap, just in install in any windows computer, maybe the eeePC, there you go a Foleo. More cheaper than a RedFly and the Foleo (if it came out), and you got yourself a mobile companion. |
I suspect that if Palm were going to take another run at the Foleo, they would build the transfer support into Palm OS II/Nova and then use either Bluetooth or Wi-Fi to transfer data. No need for third-party software. (The last time I used LapLink was 1989-ish.)
With regard to buzzwords and all the rest...we know Palm's marketing department is the pits. Hopefully, the arrival of Lynn Fox from Apple will help kick things into high gear.
I don't expect the 800w to be a breakout new features device. It will bring Palm up to par with everyone else with the addition of WM 6.1, built-in Wi-Fi, and built-in GPS. It will be the innovative applications that Palm develops on top of this hardware that will get people to buy the device. Palm can't afford to be the same as everyone else. The company is too small.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 11:09 AM
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#10 | | Registered Nurse
Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Pablo City, Laguna, Philippines
Posts: 318
| Yes Palm excel on their ability to offer tight integration between the hardware and the software. This is one of the reason why Palm OS has been very successful specially the Treo, with its thumbkeyboard and suite of PIM, and powerful applications, | |
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05-17-2008, 11:23 AM
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#11 | | Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 77
| Is this true that palm has the rights to palm os nova not garnet?
If this is true maybe palm will support it like it like they use to
Last edited by lclark2074 : 05-17-2008 at 11:45 AM.
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05-17-2008, 03:41 PM
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#12 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal
Posts: 230
| when I was talking about the 480x320 resolution, I was say something like the centro but with a rectagular screen to support this. If you notice all WM stardards have com with a rectagular screen. The new blackberry bold also is rectagular. Like I said there would be no software problems cuz the PalmOS already supports it, Its just a hardware screen like in the 500v. | |
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05-17-2008, 06:23 PM
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#13 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by lclark2074 Is this true that palm has the rights to palm os nova not garnet?
If this is true maybe palm will support it like it like they use to |
Not exactly. Palm wrote all versions of the Palm OS. A few years ago, Palm spun off their software division. PalmSource became responsible for the OS. PalmSource didn't do so well on their own, and ended up being gobbled up by a company called ACCESS. ACCESS failed to meet their contractual obligations with Palm to deliver a new operating system. As a result, the following has happened:
1. Palm can now use Palm OS 5.4.x in their devices royalty free until the end of 2010.
2. Palm has purchased a perputal (ie: never ending) license to the source code of Palm OS Garnet. (The Garnet source code starts with Palm OS version 5.2.1 through 5.4.9.) Palm can use any portion of Palm OS Garnet in any current and future device without any restrictions.
3. Palm has begun to develop their own version of Palm OS based on a Linux kernel as an alternative mobile operating system to Windows Mobile and ACCESS Linux Platform (ALP).
Palm is being intenionally tight lipped about what Palm OS II/Nova can do and when it will be ready. The only details we know are that it will be finished by about the end of this year (12/31/08) and that devices using that new OS will be on sale by the middle of next year, if not earlier.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 06:27 PM
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#14 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,801
| Quote: | Originally Posted by danceman when I was talking about the 480x320 resolution, I was say something like the centro but with a rectagular screen to support this. If you notice all WM stardards have com with a rectagular screen. |
Oh, right, rectangular screens. Hate 'em. Thats part of the reason why I like Palm's gear. The Treo screens are square and Palm OS handheld are either square or tall. I'd reather see more vertical data than horizontal. I guess that is a personal choice issue. Without the sales figures or customer survey data, it is hard to know what percentage of Palm's customer or potental customer base would want a horizontally rectangular screen.
Alan G | |
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05-17-2008, 07:54 PM
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#15 | | Detective
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Are we there yet?
Posts: 1,403
| Quote: | Originally Posted by Alan G
1. Palm can now use Palm OS 5.4.x in their devices royalty free until the end of 2010. |
Not exactly, Palm purchased a perpetual (never-ending) license to the Garnet OS. Palm have amortized this purchase on their books (accounting records for the non-accounting/non-finance readers) through 2010. Included in the perpetual license is permission to use any portion of Garnet as Palm sees fit.
What is implied by this amortization schedule is that there will be no Garnet devices sold by Palm after 2010.
Here's the multimillion dollar question. OS5 devices were shipped before the spinoff of PalmSource was finalized. What, if anything, did PalmSource deliver to Palm before they were acquired by Access. Remember, the original Treo 650 was branded Handspring and the T|T, T|2, T|3, T|E, T|C, Zire 21 and Zire 71 were all Palm branded.
We know the extended PIMs were Palm's doing, as were the enhancements to Desktop 4.x.
As to PalmOS II/Nova, the perpetual Garnet license allows Palm to use any part of the OS as they see fit. Given that these are the most robust PIMs of any mobile device OS, I am going to assume they will be carried over feature-wise, appearance may be different. | |
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