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Old 10-05-2006, 02:16 PM   #31
Dick Tracy
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I'm not sure the world is ga-ga over smartphones; the advertisers, marketers and Hollywood are. The average Joes use whatever phone comes free or nearly free with their plan.
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:21 PM   #32
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The only reason for me to get a Treo now is to get a WM one because I already have a TX. To get a Palm Treo running 5.4.9 makes no sense. The only reason I've become open to more OSes is because of NVFS' effect on the Palm experience. To me, Palm OS has issues just like WM and according to Jimmie's comments on his WX, it seems like Palm has found out how to make their WM Treo run much more smoothly. I also want Multitasking, something I've missed since my Sidekick 1.

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Old 10-05-2006, 07:04 PM   #33
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Carriers need to get it through there heads that most people don't want the "content" they offer on the locked-down phones they offer.
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:38 PM   #34
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Clie cultist here held guilty.

Why is the Palm scene boring? Because Palm is the only one left on the field, and they are not innovating.

They tell us they are selling solutions, but they are not. Will they did make exciting devices several years ago, but after Sony backed out, they got lazy. Now, every handheld they release is a clone of either the T|E or the Treo 600. The difference is in price points and feature cuts: the less you pay, the more you lose. Even the LD, which was supposed to be a great media device was made into marely a T|E with beefed up features in a new fat case but rendered sluggish by it's HD. The Treos, speak for their selves: boring. The real latest Treo was the 600, nothing new after that.

You said that cultists exist because the devices aren't avaliable and more. I'd say it's becase the innvation is gone. Back then, Sony made solutions for concepts: UX for web, NX/VZ for entertainment, TH for better PIM. And they give you unique form factors and software packages for the specific uses. Garmin was close to that with their GPS model, alas they dumped Palm OS too. Now, it's only Palm, making clone after clone, with marely minnor differences. Boring.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:52 PM   #35
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BTW don't people see why WM gets more presence or comes first is because I think Palm is trying to expand upon WM and stretch out the time before they release another Palm device. Once ALP is available or "Palm OS II", then Palm OS and WM devices will be on a level playing ground. I mean if Palm released 5.4.9 devices all the time for Treo, TX/mobile-manager line and low-end devices, they won't make much money.

The difference between Palm and Sony is the way they sell their product. Palm sells new handhelds with the most up-to-date version of their OS. The OS could be iffy or certain components could be uncomplete (like WiFi in LD), but they will still release the device.

While Sony, uses a stable version of an OS (if it ain't broke don't fix it ideology) and uses different case designs to attract people. I mean the TH, UX and VZ all ran on the same version of Palm OS but with hardware upgrades and different look, you would not be able to tell. I think Sony and Garmin saw that NVFS was a joke due to its instability. Sony's last Palm OS device was a VZ running 5.2.1 even though it came out in 2004 around the time the T5 came out.

This is why people favored Sony. I mean difference in design while stable OS. That's quality. Palm is just stuffing new version of Palm OS in their devices and using the same mold and different colors to distinguish different device models. It saves money but causes people to loose interest. I love the slim design of the TX but would like to see a new looking TX. Since the Tungsten line is gone, get rid of the form-factor as well. Or at least show us some designs and let us vote or something to that effect. Test out a new sign and see the reception to a small test group. Etc.

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Old 10-06-2006, 06:45 AM   #36
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I finally got enough free time at work to listen to the podcast! Nice job you three... and thanks for the kind words. Sure, the audio quality dipped here and there but it's the flow of ideas that gives soul to a podcast.

To take off from that "soul" idea, I think it was Sony who had enough passion to design a Palm device that ultimately led to to a handheld that had soul. The last great PDA in my book was/is the TH55/E. Imagine that... a 2 1/2 year old Palm-powered device that's still ummatched. What we are seeing now with Palm, as intellidryad said, are merely clones of a primary design. I hope we'd get to see new designs and capabilities... not just capabilities. It's still my wish to see Palm hire the Sony Clie designers... then I'd get to see my dream Palm PDA.
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
I finally got enough free time at work to listen to the podcast! Nice job you three... and thanks for the kind words. Sure, the audio quality dipped here and there but it's the flow of ideas that gives soul to a podcast.

To take off from that "soul" idea, I think it was Sony who had enough passion to design a Palm device that ultimately led to to a handheld that had soul. The last great PDA in my book was/is the TH55/E. Imagine that... a 2 1/2 year old Palm-powered device that's still ummatched. What we are seeing now with Palm, as intellidryad said, are merely clones of a primary design. I hope we'd get to see new designs and capabilities... not just capabilities. It's still my wish to see Palm hire the Sony Clie designers... then I'd get to see my dream Palm PDA.


They should have picked them up as soon as Sony departed the Palm OS market. That would have been a smart business stategy.
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:54 AM   #38
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PodCast comment.

The Podcast content was pretty good. However, the audio was bad, and I am sorry to say you could have done without the "plugfest". It was more like let's pat each other on the back and say hi to mom if she is listening. and now lets all hug.. OMG it is great you guys are friends and community buddies but I had to turn it off about then. Listening to you guys plugging each other was getting bad.

But Seriously, I was hoping you would plug new applications or websites that we don't already know about that you have found recently. I think Palm Inc. doing a WM design is interesting. I still follow the Jeff Kirvin comment that "Palm doing WM will make them a lot of money at first but will hurt them in the long term." Now normally I don't agree with Jeff Kirvin. He changes opinions as often as I change the oil in my car. (3 months or 3000 miles).

I think Palm should setup the Treo/PDA device that you buy it and have a choice of what OS to install and use. Not this you have to go and buy a specific model with that OS. Then they would sell a ton of product. Palm is close to being able to do that. I do not believe any other VAR/Mfg is in the position to market something like that.

As for the Keyboard/Thumboard segment. I have a Treo700P. For the longest time I have used a two device soultion. I went to the 700P because it was the newest and rumor was Palm was not going to release a new PDA this year. I think the concept Treo800 I have seen would be a great device. It has the 320x480 and it's formfactor footprint is about the same as the new Treo's. If you need a thumboard you could install "Scotts Keyboard" and use it for texting and other input. I had that keyboard on my LD and thought it worked great with VeriChat.

But these are my opinions. Keep the podcast’s coming. Even though I don't always like them it's kind of like the Howard Stern show. I keep listening because I want to hear what you say next!

OrionNE

Last edited by OrionNE : 10-06-2006 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:08 AM   #39
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That would be cool to kind of have "BootCamp" on our Treo, so you can have Palm and Windows Mobile. You can kind of do this with Windows Mobile using StyleTap which lets you run Palm OS apps on Windows Mobile.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAmerican
They should have picked them up as soon as Sony departed the Palm OS market. That would have been a smart business stategy.


Here's why it didn't happen:

On Palm's side:
"We are a business solutions company, we only do boring yet professional devices..." (Duh, the RAZR could look profressional yet un-boring...)

On Sony's side:
From the interviews with the designers that Sony Japan posted on their sites from time to time, I got the feeling that they've got designers that pretty much design all sorts of gadgets, not having a real dedicated "team". Thus, the Clie designers are previous Vaio designers, and they might be now working on the next-gen PSP, Walkmans or Vaios. You could pretty much see hints of Clie-bits in PSPs (such as the use of IC2.0, the implementation of the memory stick with content specific folders, and even including Netfront as the built-in browser) and the Vaio UX (the form factor, and the telescoping "toothpick" stylus). So I think the designers aren't going anywhere, they just don't do Clies anymore.
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Old 10-06-2006, 02:25 PM   #41
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Agreed on the carriers

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Originally Posted by Drunkard
Carriers need to get it through there heads that most people don't want the "content" they offer on the locked-down phones they offer.


I whole-heartedly agree on the carrier situation here in the US. Verizon, Sprint, and Cingular don't just want to sell you a phone and service, they want to be inside your phone. I really don't want them touching my data. T-Mobile is a little better about that, but that's only because they're small in the US and have no content to really lock you into. That and their supply of interesting phones dried up years ago (unless you want a Blackberry).
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Old 10-06-2006, 04:05 PM   #42
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Your right intellidryad. But I remember Sony layed off some people due to their financial situation.

JAmerican
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Old 10-06-2006, 08:20 PM   #43
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Most of the people fanboying for Palm OS or for WM simply have not tried the other one out. And if they have, they have not tried the newest implementations of each. I have and after tested dozens of devices, I must say that it's much different to actually test devices than read about them.

1 thing to keep in mind:
2 OS's= weaknesses and strengths

Obviously, each OS has a set of assets for them. However, it is made out by debaters for both sides think that every aspect of each is good. To note, Palm users embracing WM are not Palm users; they are handheld/smartphone users. You cannot use both, like both, and support both and classify yourself as a Palm user. So what if you're not a Palm user though? I think it makes your judgment on devices that much better.

There are some saying that Palm will spiral far from its current OS. People such as Alan stubbornly insist that the extension of Palm's license is clearly indicative of Palm's commitment to Garnet. Even so, Palm expands its offerings of WM devices while the market share of Garnet based devices plummets. It's obvious to me that while Ed may say things to assuage the irate Palm wingnuts, there is no indication that Palm will ever return to using POS exclusively or even on a small share basis. In fact, there is no indication that new POS devices are even being made. Moreover, the exclusivity of the Garnet license means that only Palm can make them and that further deducts from POS's future as a viable OS.

POS users such as Alan often talk much too naÔvely about POS's future. It's not that they do not understand it, but it comes across as too comforting for POS users about the future of POS. WM rules over POS in all markets and familiarity with Windows essentially governs the market and pushes any hope POS has to make a recovery. Palm simply invented the market and you can trace back to the beginning when WM starts to take over market share. As a simple, fundamental rule of economics, Palm as a profit-driven company will never offer more of a product in less demand. It simply will not happen. There won't be a wave of millions of new people demanding POS. It will have to either die or be produced on a limited scale, much like Sony's UX series.

Communities like 1src are great for those who want to enjoy and share the goodness of POS, and that is perfectly fine. But don't get it confused. All OS's have benefits over each other and it's very important to be aware of this. Communities exist for WM and hybrid (see: Brighthand) that offer great advice and expertise in determining solutions for each individual. Many people on each side of the fence don't want to resign themselves to give in to the "disloyalty" of the "dark side." See both sides of the OS's before jumping to conclusions and keep in mind that while forums like 1src are excellent and have strong-knit bond in its membership, it's not the know-all place, and Palm OS is not the ultimate OS. I won't get into specifics on benefits because that is dynamic, but there are so many factors involved that it is impossible to determine a perfect OS.

My outlook for Palm is that it will continue to produce POS but only on a handheld basis. I seriously doubt that POS can keep up with the emerging technologies integrated into Microsoft's development. POS was not truly meant to take advantage of the blazing new speed of evolution that occurs in PCs (hence new versions every few years), and since Garnet is licensed to 2010, there won't be any new development in Palm for a new OS to complement this new development. Simply put, POS will stagnate where it is (which is still damn good).

And Vampy, I'm glad you pointed out that Palm does not do hardware. I believe I recall the Zire 72 was made by OneAndCompany, the same as the makers of the Pulsar 590a and the XBox 360. I want the Versa's.
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Last edited by Romeol : 10-06-2006 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 10-07-2006, 01:02 AM   #44
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About time someone attacks me. I been waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan G
Embarcing...wait a minute! Didn't you get a new PocketPC from HP? Let's take a look at the thread for the 1SRC Editorial: Size Does Matter...



Ya, I guess you did. And didn't you tell me to start a Windows Mobile podcast? Let's take a look at the thread for 1SRC Podcast 97...



Interesting. If you dislike Palm so much and went and got a PPC it must be really hard for you to use it because of the love-hate relationship you have with it. And I would have thought that you would have listened to entire podcast. Hmmm.

Alan G



Well it is about time someone caught on and thought about using that against me finally.

Like Ed Colligan, I am GUILTY as charged. With the difference that I respect and like Palm OS more than him.

I have always owned PPC and Palms simultaneously. I almost always only use my Palm OS devices for serious true life daily organization. The problem I have with Palm Inc is that it is not putting enough effort into handhelds and Palm OS.

I always flip flop a bit but usually always fall back onto Palm OS. Now mind you, it might not be possible for me to keep doing that forever if Palm itself decides to push me away by not selling good Palm OS handhelds.

Anyways, WHATEVER. Just keep doing your podcast and don't mind me.
YOU on the other hand have the mic and a greater responsibility to your Palm OS public. You should talk about Palm OS here and PPC in another podcast if you want to discuss PPC. Your choice, but I am willing to bet, like Palm Inc., your are pissing off a majority of your mainly Palm OS listeners.

It is bad enough Palm OS fans have to fend off attacks from within by Palm Inc, but when big names like Tyler Faux, and yourself start slobbering all over WM, it is bad.

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Old 10-07-2006, 01:18 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewah
I'm not sure about Vamp, but I still listen because I'm hoping to here of a big turn around. I still have my lifedrive but I'm trying out the Nokia 770. I'm sorry if I come off as a "wing nut" I'm just not sure how to get through to everyone. I just can't believe that everyone is so happy that all palm is doing are treo's and WM phones. I mean in the end why does everyone care about Palm, if they don't make a current product that we can use they fall into the who cares, next please category. So let me ask everyone who is pro palm. If Palm never again makes anything but a cell phone is that ok?


- The silent majority of handheld fans are waiting for a turnaround, like yourself and I.
- Not everyone is happy about the onslaught of Treos. Plenty of people are unhappy that mobile handheld experience is being watered down by the compromises made in the Treo ---> PHONE <--- (as in, not a computer).
- They care about Palm because of a) the good hardware designs b) the abundance + simplicity of software c) the online community d) the history
e) the specialization of Palm Inc, as opposed to Microsoft doing a bit of everything in every imaginable market.
- I am pro-Palm. But if they are to become WM + Treo centric, classic Palm does not exist for me anymore.
- And no its not OK for just a TReo world. There will always be handheld makers out there, question is who will be smart enough to get that market.
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