SamuraiCatJB

I am leaning towards a purchase of a flash unit for my Nikon D70 Camera. The primary purpose of which is cavern photography. Although I got better than common results with a built in flash (and lots of monkeying with exposure), it just never went far enough. That is a common enough problem in carlsbad caverns since most built in flashes are rated at about 30ft.

My choices are:
3rd party or Nikon
With Nikon I have two choices, SB-600 and SB-800. Most reviews downplay the 800 which has master-slave functionality (SB-600 can be a slave, but not a master) for multi-sync flash. This is actually an idea since I am considering eventually using a diffuser/bouncer on the brighter SB-800 and a SB-600 as a slave at some future time. I have liked what others have done with this providing good ambient wider diffuse light from the stronger flash and a direct SB-600 from the side. This tends to be a portrait flash mode for professionals, but a few caving photographers have used it well too and I liked the results.

I cannot afford both right now.... 9 of 10 reviews say get the SB-600 not the SB-800 and that no one would use the range difference (ISO 100: 98ft for SB-600 and 125ft for SB-800). To me distance makes the difference and I can always sacrifice to ISO 200 and add a third without having to sacrifice quality to ISO 400 or 800 as I did on my last trip to carlsbad (and throw away all but a few images).

I can go cheap now and maybe not fill the need, expand bigger later and the price will be less.... Or fill the need, maybe go "over" and give some ISO flexability back for creativity now and expand to the lower end slave later (which cheaper I wouldn't have to save as long, I could easily buy the SB600 on a whim after March).

Or I could scrap all that and go 3rd party which I could easily go on a whim, but flash load times and all but the most expensive don't match the distances (and it is more expensive than the Nikons). And scrap any future expansion ideas with all but a few (which don't quite match all the features of the Nikon).

My gut says go big now, it may or may not be more than I need, any extra can be considered extra flexability since my intent is long distance flashes.

http://www.blackrabbit.com/cave101.htm

I am even considering trying a timed photo and carrying the flash in a manual strobe essentially painting the cave with multiple flashes (possibly swapping colored gels in the process too). That is only on the SB-800 even though every review I ever read said you will never use a strobe mode and colored gels.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb800.htm

am I crazy? am I making excuses to play with bigger toys?
my gut says SB-800, but 9 of 10 reviews say SB-600. And actually most caving photography says multi-flash or bulb (and outflash even the SB-800). ( we won't even talk bulb pricing )

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

Gizmo

Samcrist the Pixel Cleaver,

I faced the same dilemma when I was considering a new flash for my 20D. The advice and reviews for the Canon flash sounded a lot like what you hearing for the Nikon, only in the Canon world the two models are the 430EX and 580EX.

The 580EX has a larger guide number and can act as both a master and slave. The 430EX has a smaller guide number and only acts as a slave. And as you mentioned, there are several nice 3rd party options out there such as Sunpak and Metz.

In the end I decided to go for it and I bought the 580EX. The two main reasons were: 1. You can always use the extra light, and 2. Canon build quality.

Nikon flashes are the best in the industry. If I were you I would be looking at the SB600 or SB800 as your main flash and not bother with a 3rd party brand (Except see below.)

And here is an alternative that you may not have thought of. Buy the SB600 and a cheap 3rd party flash, such as the Vivitar 285 on ebay (although Vivitar announced they are leaving the flash market so prices are going up) and then mount it on an optical slave. You will save some money and still have dual flash capabilities. I have used this setup many times and it works great.

Good luck with your decision. I’m sure you’ll end up making the right choice.

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

SamuraiCatJB

I actually considered that, but the iTTL has some light focus abilities based on range so the command pulse actually has information. That is the recommended setup for a 3rd party master slave because it is not compatible with the Nikon iTTL multi-flash system.

That was why I was thinking 800 as master, 600 as slave, because of the extra info on slave link. I could actually control the brightness of the flash in the entire setup rather than manually adjusting the slaves and master independantly....

And I could toss on some 200's in paired mode at the end of a macro lens later for expansion. hehehehe

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

Gizmo

That's a good point and one that I forgot to mention. With the Canon 580EX you can control the lighting ratios with other Canon slaves right from the master and its all eTTL II compatible on the Canon bodies that support it. Which is all the more reason I want a second Canon flash. Currently when I use my Vivitar with an optical slave I have my 580EX set on manual and I meter for the shot. It really isn't that big of deal in a controlled environment but a true master slave setup would be so much easier.


Now your talking! (What are 200's? That's not a current Nikon model is it?)

Edit - Nevermind. I saw a picture of them on Ken Rockwells site. Very cool!

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

Gizmo

Hey, SamCat. I just got to thinking. I thought I read somewhere that the D70's on board flash could be set to "commander" and you could use it to trigger an SB800 in "remote" mode and that it works with iTTL. Might be worth checking out. Then again, I might have dreamt it.

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

SamuraiCatJB

In TTL you can use a wire to trigger slaves, or you can use the light pulse of the built in to command others.

There is a SU800 (I think that was what they call it) which is not a flash, but just the master transmitter for slaves. That is common for off-center lighting. I debated on that, there are just times I want the flash on the camera for easy operation...

See this operation: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0511/0...konremotefl.asp

which also has the 200's, which are the smallest flash available for Nikon, no intelligence, but can be slaved, they started pairing them for macro lights.

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

Gizmo

I just bought this transmitter for mine last week.

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/co...41&modelid=8304

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

SamuraiCatJB

I'll just have to catch up with you.

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

SamuraiCatJB

well... I did it.... SB-800 on its way.... Look out carlsbad, Here I come....

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

Gizmo

Congrats!!!

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

Gizmo

SamCat, how is that new flash working out for ya?

__________________
Arrr...JackAxe's wooden leg has termites!!!
My Evolution:
Pilot
Palm Pilot
Palm V
Clie N760C
Treo 650
Centro

SamuraiCatJB

Pretty good! I managed to flash the trees across the street. I am still learning how to adjust the amount of flash. I'll tell you more after I secure my spot in a photo workshop... don't want anyone else to get my spot... but my timing was perfect.

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~

JackAxe

Did the tree press charges?

<]=)

__________________

I be a hearty pirate that plunders many waffles.

The Dread Pirate Monkey Gizmo has scurvy! :)

Nintendo DS and Wii, me gaming machines of choice.

SamuraiCatJB

No, but someone getting their mail gave me strange looks as I muttered to the camera and took pictures of a lone tree and a rock across the street...

__________________
And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the White Man. He needs your Wisdom, your guidance. You see, for so long, he has tried to destroy my people, and only feels comfortable when given power. Bless them, show them the peace we understand, teach them humility. For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children, As they have done so Mother Earth. I plead, I cry. After all, They are my Brothers.... ~ Prayer ~