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Old 03-19-2006, 10:27 AM   #46
tegodwin
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Saga of the TX digitisers

Latest on the continuing story of the Palm digitisers.

I have just had my third Palm TX repaired and back with a very accurate digitiser. However the screen is not quite right! Although the screen is physically centered in the case the display is shifted by about 3 pixels to the left. This leaves a blank unused column on the right (about 3 pixel wide) but a missing pixel column on the left of the screen.

It's either a hardware problem (but it's hard to see how a reassembly could produce such a symptom) or a video driver problem. Perhaps I have a new type of screen fitted as the returned Palm feels different - more rigid perhaps; and I need a new driver.

Has anybody else heard of this?

TEG
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:04 PM   #47
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I'm having the same problem with the digitizer on my nearly 1 month old TX. I have a thread going at:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/pa...7799#post527799

With video of the trouble here:
www.makarios.us/auctionpictures/IMGP0001_PC.avi
www.makarios.us/auctionpictures/IMGP0002_PC.avi
www.makarios.us/auctionpictures/IMGP0003_PC.avi

I'm waiting to see what palm will do. They've already told me to calibrate (no help) and hard reset (no help) - I didn't even sync or load any software on the TX after the hard reset and it's still doing it (that's how the videos were taken, after a fresh Hard Reset)
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:26 PM   #48
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The TX uses a resistive type of digitizer. This is very different than the capacitive type of some older Palms (I am not sure which ones though). But anyway, a resistive digitizer requires a certain amount of pressure on the stylus. The reason is that the pressur makes an actual electrical contact between two sheets of clear plastic. A value of resistance can be read by the processor to know where the stylus is.

The first of your videos shows exactly what to expect if the pressure applied is too little. However what the video does not show, obviously, is how much pressure you are using.

I measured the actual pressure required on the stylus to draw on the screen of my TE and my TX. With the 2 year old TE it takes 1.03 ounces total stylus weight (stylus plus added weights) to work reliably. With a ScreenGaurdz protector installed it atakes 1.06 ounces. With a Brando protector it takes considerably more at 1.52 ounces.

I measured my very new TX with a Brando installed and it took 0.62 ounces. I did not measure the TX without the Brando as I don't want to remove it yet.

Also, the TE took more and more pressure the older it got. The TX is now about 1/2 year old and it takes more pressure than it used to in certain 'well traveled' areas of the digitizer.

I used a very precise scale to measure the weight of the stylus including the weights attached to it. I devised a little jig of sorts to hold the stylus vertically, but with no upward or downward force, while dragging it around the screen. (Imagine pulling a wagon.... you don't add weight to the wagon by pulling it, only forward motion).

The TX stylus all by itself weighs 0.39 ounces. For weights I used clothes pins that weigh 0.22 ounces each.

So, now you can use a weighted stylus to find out how much pressure it is actually taking to 'make your mark' reliably and then we can compare. Anything short of using actual measured amounts of pressure really does not have any meaning. One persons "a lot of pressure" might be the same as another persons "very slight pressure". Gotta use numbers. :-)
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:30 PM   #49
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Sure, numbers are nice. But as seen in the video, a consistent (you'll have to trust my judgement/word on that) amount of pressure gives inconsistent results in consistently the same area of the digitizer. This, and the fact that many others have the same problems in the same area of the digitizer really does indicate a common problem with the TX digitizer.

I don't have the equipment, nor the desire to get too technical on the numbers - I know there's a problem because of the poor/inconsistent results I get from my Graffiti writing. I've been a Palm VIIx user for a few years and am not a Palm newbie. However that Graffiti2 is a little difficult to get used to.

I'm also not convinced that sending my TX in for repair or replacement will fix the problem, as others have had their TX replaced 3x with the same problems on each one.

Last edited by rkhanso : 03-22-2006 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:02 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkhanso
....... I've been a Palm VIIx user for a few years and am not a Palm newbie......


I am not certain about the VIIx but I recently found an article that says the V series of Palms use a capacitive type digitizer. If this is true of the VIIx then you can expect it to be significantly different than the resistive digitizer on the TX and all recent Palms. A capacitive type requires virtually no pressure, just a touch to the surface. The resistive type requires pressure.


The resistive digitizer will wear out, and faster if more pressure is used. As it wears out it requires more and more pressure. The area that gets the most use will wear out the soonest. That is why the lower case letters graffiti area is the first to go. A brand new digitizer will cure your problems but only until it wears out. It is sad that it is this way but it is.

My solution to the problem has been to use the Keyboard. I can't stand the
TX's regular keyboard (no audio feedback and incredibly poor visual feedback) but I use Prefs/Buttons/More... to select the old style Palm keyboard.

I believe that software could be written that could compensate for "missing" spots on a worn digitizer, at least to some extent, but as for the hardware, once it is damaged it reamains that way.

I did find something interesting when I was playing with my TE and its poorly responding digitizer. If I would put it in the refrigerator for 10 minutes or so, then take it out and write using graffiti, it worked very well. It would require very little pressure and operate just like when it was new. But once it gets thoroughly warmed up again it was back to crap.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:11 AM   #51
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TX and graffiti input problem

I have owned my Palm TX for a couple of months and I am more than satisfied with this PDA model overall.

However, I am disappointed that I am experiencing the intermittent input problem with my Palm TX that other posters have described here.

I will be monitoring this thread until the problem is isolated.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:19 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregte
My solution to the problem has been to use the Keyboard. I can't stand the
TX's regular keyboard (no audio feedback and incredibly poor visual feedback)


A bit of advertisement:

You might try the QWERTY skin for my myKbd program (www.zlthemes.com/Programs.php). myKbd has visual and audio feedback (the audio is off by default--it may slow down responsiveness). Of course, the ATOMIK layout (also included) is faster. :-) This way you'll have a keyboard in the keyboard area.
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For my shareware (FontSmoother, myKbd, mySkin, Accenter, FastLaunch and AtomClock) and freeware PalmOS software, go here: http://pruss.mobi
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:40 PM   #53
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Hello everyone,

Guess what? ...I am on my second TX since January for the same reasons as you all and my new TX (less than 1 month old) is showing the same problems again.

nice.

James.
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Old 04-22-2006, 03:01 PM   #54
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Red face How do you make the digitizer work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Em
I've had this problem off and on; I've always found that it goes away after a hard reset and then slowly creeps back. I just tried DigiE from the T3 thread, and it seems to have fixed the issue! So now I'll just keep that little app on my SD card and use it when the screen goes sloppy on me next.


I downloaded several digi-type programs to fix the calibration on my TX, but none come with instructions (I can't find if they are there).... so I end up looking at two lines that cross perpendicular, but I don't know what to do. I can't even figure out the digitest to see if something is fixed. Any ideas? I'm thinking about just getting the company to replace the TX (I bought the extended service for this reason because my old Tungsten E had same problem.... mixed with dead pixels).
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Old 04-22-2006, 04:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpaterno
I downloaded several digi-type programs to fix the calibration on my TX, but none come with instructions (I can't find if they are there).... so I end up looking at two lines that cross perpendicular, but I don't know what to do. I can't even figure out the digitest to see if something is fixed. Any ideas? I'm thinking about just getting the company to replace the TX (I bought the extended service for this reason because my old Tungsten E had same problem.... mixed with dead pixels).


Use your stylus and tap at the intersection of the two lines. For example, if it's like a + , tap at the middle of the + . Then, there will be another set of lines. Do it for that and if they're detected properly, you should exit out of the application automatically and the screen will work more responsibly. These apps are somewhat similar to the Palm digitizer app in the Prefs.

If not, you may have a hardware problem that will need to be fixed by opening it up.

Last edited by maceyr : 04-22-2006 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 04-22-2006, 08:36 PM   #56
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I really think this is software related because I've seen th issue migrate to different parts of my screen. Shortly after getting my TX I noticed it in the Graffiti are, I don't know what I did but it went away. At the time I was 'learning' the device and hard resets were common.

Now the issue has come back top middle of the screen just as others have described. If I use my finger (not putting much pressure at all) I can write easily in the affected area, it seems lik ethe pointed pressure of the stylus isn't being read but the area is functioning somehow.

If Palm isn't admitting this as an issue and it never gets resolved, the TX will be the last Palm I buy. I'll make sure to tell them that, I recommend more users let them know how this will affect thier bottom line.

I know the Treo 700 just got a software update shortly after it's debut, here's hoping they care a peice about the Palm PDA products as well.
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:17 AM   #57
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maybe is an issue with the screen protector, so why dont you try changing it? It happend to me in the Graffiti area but after putting the new screen protector everything worked nice!
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:22 AM   #58
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I'm not using a screen protector. This has nothing to do with a screen protector.
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Old 04-23-2006, 04:21 PM   #59
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Here's a pic of the current 'dead zone' on my TX. The interesting thing is I can use my finger to draw in this area; the wider surface area of my finger successfully and rather accurately draws just fine.

Again, this spot 'moved' as a. it used to be smaller and b. used to be in the Graffiti area but disappeared for a long while. It reappeared as seen below last week when I was trying to resolve some digitizer calibration issues. I've tried a hard reset and all the digitizer tools I can find. I'm pretty certain this isn't a hardware issue and seems related to the calibration process. It is a pain in the arse though


Last edited by braj : 04-23-2006 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 04-24-2006, 01:39 PM   #60
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I really think this has something to do with digitizer calibration, it seems to get worse when I try to calibrate the csreen. Is there any way to do *more than* a hard reset, or is there a way to 'hard reset' the digitizer?
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