louiscorpio

Just to confirm you mean, Kinoma player 3 ex can play files coverted by IC 1.5/2.0??

Zork

Junglemike, yep, you reencode all your useless XviD and DivX to MPEG 1, 2 or 4 cause you cant watch them otherwise on your MPEG hardware (like for example your DVD player). The problem with all this wannabee codecs which arent used at all is that they arent standardized (beside the lame quality of the wannabee codecs which is proven (check the awards MPEG 4 already got. Where is there something like 3ivX ?)). You cant play DivX, XviD or 3ivX on anything beside your PC or Mac. The playback on Palm or PPC is useless cause with every new codec or codec version things become incompatible again. So thos players for PDAs are completely useless cause they cant bein optimized the way Kinoma is optimized for MPEG 4 playback. DivX, XviD and 3ivX are nice toys. But with Kinoma we have a stable, optimized player which plays back for the first time industry standard movies (and for daver : The codecs you mentioned are all way worse then MPEG 4. So its useless to support WMV or any other antique codec which isnt used any more when you got the newest industry standard codec. So what you meant is nothing else like "Who need Blue Ray support when we got datasette and floppy disk support on all other systems" ).

And one last one : You really quote the posting from the PPC freak ? He even mentioned that he play back DVDs on his PPC unconverted. So where did he insert his DVD at the PPC ? And wheres the point of playin back a format which never were made for portable usage cause with its original bandwidth is way too large for such a purpose. And the quote were even more useless cause he compared with the old Kinoma player !!!!!

So sorry to tell you, but there is nothing comparable with Kinoma Player 3 EX on any other portable platform. The best industry standard video codec out there is supported and you could play back for the first time on any PDA all the iTunes and Apple Music Store songs avail. And yep, Apple Music Store songs could be played indeed too. Simply download the needed tool from http://hymn-project.org/ . And this is not useless reencoding (which would mean loss of quality). Its simply a removal of the consumer hostile DRM part of the Apple Music store songs. So they could be played back on your Palm w/o any problem (another PDA Palm premiere).

archangel

I don't have 2.0 to test, but the full version works perfectly with files converted with IC 1.5 on a non Sony device.

Its also nice to know I can play itunes store files too if I want. Thanks for posting those links.

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Some_guy

I totally disagree with you Zork, MMplayer is faaar way better than Kinoma Player 3EX, MMplayer supports more and better formats than kinoma, Xvid uses high quality video on a very small space, I managed to get a 1h 27min video with super quality on 123megs (almost 1.5 meg per minute) and guess what, it plays even on a Tungsten T1, the same video with similar quality and resolution converted with kinoma producer 3 (using mp4 format) produces a almost 200 mbs video, the quality it´s not that good and it doesn´t even play on my Tungsten T1, it plays on a T3, but skipping many frames.
The only setting I´ve found that works with Kinoma 3 on my Tungsten T1 is encoding with a 160x160 resolution and 48kbps of bitrate, yes it suc*s!!!
That´s just for the video, the audio is what is even worst!!!
You´ve to convert all your mp3´s to AAC, that´s a tedious process and AAC audio is almost the same as mp3´s, MMplayer plays mp3 and ogg (my favorite)
Also, Kinoma player crashes on my Tungsten T when I try to play a file in native format, it rarely works and when it crashes, it resets itself, but errases all my apps.

Zork

Some_guy, I got a 2 hour within 220 MB with Kinoma 3. And I got on my Zire 72 an amazing framerate of 30 fps (!!!). Thats cause Kinoma 3 is perfectly optimized for the Palm, while MMPlayer is just some fun project. And Kinoma 3 indeed also works perfect cause its a commercial product. And come on : Comparing MP3 with AAC isnt even lame. Noone out there claims that MP3 comes even near AAC. And thats even with smaller sample rates. AAC is the commercial standard out there. I still use MP3 for usual songs (RealOne plays them perfectly fine). But fact is, that the only format which you could buy and play on your PDA is AAC. And it could be played only on Palm and only with Kinoma 3. And BTW : AAC is the codec which is used by iTunes Music Store. The one which got almost two third of the complete online music market. And you dont even have to buy an iPod anymore to play your songs on the road. Awesome is too little for this update. Its simply breakthrough in terms of vieo and music playback.

same_guy

Kinoma 3 may be a comercial product, too comercial btw, they just want to satisfy people with new palms and they dont care if their products behave well in old palms (like a Tungsten T1) and they know it, they know that kinoma 3 wont play a 320x320 video on a Tungsten T1, but do they tell us that before we buy their products???
Of course not!!!
While, on the other hand, MMplayer works with every os5 device out, also, it gets udpated more often than kinoma.

tempest929

Um....except for the .MOV format, Betaplayer for the ppc can already do this...and at VGA resulotion.

And Zork....what's that, nothing compares with kinoma? Your right! No other player that I've used has video quality that bad! Yup, nothing else does compare to that proprietary piece of crap. MM player is still the best video player for palm. And your bragging about iTunes?....thats funny

Zork

tempest929, Betaplayer is a piece of fun project. Same as with MMPlayer on the Palm. Its of no real purpose, cause there is noone where you could direct your complains too. And both of thos players arent supporting real wolrd formats (beside MMPlayer with MP3. Every other so called codec is just a toy with no real purpose). And BTW Kinoma supports .mov since years, cause all of the Kinoma used codecs are simply Quicktime codes . I used Cinepak since Quicktime 1.0 and MPEG 4 (the real, industry standard complaint one) since Quicktime 4 or 5. So if you talking bout industry standard complaint, best quality and even most stable player out there, there is nothing beside Kinoma Player 3 EX on any PDA.

But if you like to use a non standard, buggy, no support player with absolutely no purpose you are free to use Betaplayer . Its fine that PPC users dont have any other choice then continue to use the worst players out there. But if you like to play MPEG 4 movies, which offers simply the best industry standard quality out there for pocket devices you have to use the Kinoma Player 3 EX. And if you like to hear your online bought songs on your PDA ... again, get a Palm and Kinoma Player 3 EX. Thats the simple truth. Theres no point in havin a collection of codecs where the only real competition is in which got less purpose for the movie watching audience out there. What matters is the quality, the support and the fact that it uses the most recent ndustry standard codecs avail. And while there is no MPEG 5, its simply MPEG 4 right now. Perhaps thats why Apple choose to use m4a for iTunes and m4p for their Music Store, which is used by almost every online song buyer out there. And if you would complain bout the fact that DRM is nonsense I would be right with you. Thats why Hymn helps you, so that the iTunes Music Store songs are the one and only online music store songs out there which you could use with your PDA. Sorry, but thats completely impossible with every DRM WMA out there (even if reencoding or CD burning is allowed (which isnt with most DRM WMA offerings out there) cause you have to reencode your songs at least, which means horrible loss of quality (usin 2 destructive codecs for one file)). If you dont like that simple reality, check the complains bout users which fallen to DRM WMA tricks and now lost their money and didnt have the smallest chance at all to use their bought (!!) songs on their PDA. Thos are real problems and not whining bout the fact that the Palm is the only PDA movie player out there thx to Kinoma Player 3 EX. If you would stop bein jeaulious you would realize that this tool is simply a breakthrough for everyone of us and nothing to whine bout. There are still small probs with it (Kinoma Producer 3 and MPEG 2 on Mac is a dont ), but I never even dreamed bout getting a real player solution on any PDA (be it Palm or PPC), cause we all know the unsupported, non commercial trials you already mentioned too well.

archangel

You guys bragging about MMPlayer crack me up. That is the buggiest piece of software I have ever used on a PDA. Kinoma 3Ex is not perfect but it is very stable and works with the Sony IC converter so its way ahead of MMPlayer for me. I've tinkered and tinkered with frame rates and bit rates and I can not get the smooth playback I'm getting with Kinoma. For the Palm OS Kinoma 3EX is a very nice option and no one is saying you can't use it along with MMPlayer. I have paid for the full versions of both.

I use iTunes as well so getting to play AAC files is a nice plus. Pocket Tunes has more options though so Kinoma is not a better music player it just has AAC support. MP3 quality doesn't compare at all to AAC. Only Ogg can output at the kind of quality that AAC can in smaller file sizes and Pocket Tunes does support that so I may still use Pocket Tunes for music. It is nice to have options though.

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tempest929

Zork,
Have you ever used beta player? You say thats it unsupported, and that there's no one that you can direct your complaints too. Try this...its homepage: http://betaplayer.corecodec.org/

I have a T3 and a VGA pocket pc. I would agree that MM palyer is buggy, and thats why I don't use my palm for video. The alternative would be Kinoma which looks like crap compared to beta player, pocket tv, or even windows media player. You say that iTunes is the most popular online music store....well sure. But honestly, where do you think the majority of music on peoples computers come from? I don't recall anyone ever asking for an iTunes player on a pda prior to this.

I see that you are obviously a palm enthusiest, and that's fine. Just don't make statements that are obviously untrue. ppc video players including beta player are very stable, and quite honestly wipe the floor with any palm video players that I've used. You think that this new Kinoma player is going to make ppc users druel....that its going to make them rethink their purchase? I'd say your dreaming.

troydl

Whew i thought this advertisement for Kinoma would die out in a day or two











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Junglemike <<-- you're right, last post on this

AWS

I just wanted to enlighten you...
The whole point about iPod/iTunes and AAC is the well established fact that the AAC format is superior to MP3 for a given bit rate (in other words, a 128kb song in AAC is much better than in MP3). With iTunes you don't have to concern yourself with MP3 at all. You can convert MP3s if you want to convert an older library, but for any new rips, you wouldn't want to bother with MP3, just rib to AAC and enjoy the better quality.

Having explained that, Kinoma 3 EX now allows those of us with libraries of unprotected AAC files to use them on a Palm device. This is a great benefit for me as I never bought into the MP3 craze as the file size vs. quality were not too appealing. When the iPod/iTunes made the AAC format available I spent weeks doing painstaking comparison tests and I was convinced that AAC was finally an ACCEPTABLE choice. I got an iPod and ripped over 200 CDs to AAC and have been quite happy with the result.

The only thing lacking was a means to listen to my AAC files on my Palm whenever I did not want to carry along my whole song library on my iPod. Now I can take a few hours worth of music on my Palm and leave my iPod at home connected to my entertainment system for my wife to enjoy.

AWS

daver

haha, couldn't have said it better myself.


I didn't know that, at all. But I'm still going to stick to my CDs. IMO, an iPOD (even the 40 GB one, which i think is the largest capacity right now) still can't hold all of my WAVs; I've got a 200 GB and 80 GB hard drive holding only MP3s. don't want to sound c0cky, but i never settle for anything less than WAV (which at the moment is the best quality file that Winamp version 2.90 can handle without plugins). If anyone knows of any better file format for music that doesn't compress and/or compromise quality for size, please tell me because my collection seems to be growing a little too quickly.

I know, i know, i'm pretty stupid for using only WAVs. What can I do? I love music

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Spiral

you can use monkey audio or lossless wma (of course I wouldn't be likely to use the latter). Both compress the music, but once decompressed, is identical to the wav in both sound and the data. The size will still be big, but saves a lot of space. Usually I rip my cd's to 192 kbps mp3's, because that's good enough for me, and there's a lot more good mp3 sorting software (tagscanner) and mp3 is the most standard music format.

Btw, what Zork said in November on PDArcade

I've heard a few reports of low frame rates from high quality mpeg4 on Kinoma 3 EX myself. Of course MPEG 4 isn't a "real PDA codec" according to Zork because it'll take up too much space and have low quality. Then Kinoma 3 supports MPEG4 and Zork does an about face. MPEG4 is now the best PDA (and video) codec.

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