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08-14-2006, 12:28 AM
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#16 | | Software engineer/hacker
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 5,061
 | Quote: | Originally Posted by I love my mom To be honest, I really like HB++. The only thing that kills me is the size of the apps made. It's impossible to make an app under 30k. The apps you make are massive in size. HB++ is actually 7x large in file sizes than any other language I've used. |
1,000 times biger then written in asm. :-)
see here: http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost...49&postcount=26
__________________ Annoying me is NOT an approved way of encouraging me to produce software My software:PowerSDHC, PowerDrive, nuRom, UDMH, warpSpeed, PowerDiGi, brightnessFix, etc... Get it all here:http://www.PalmPowerups.com | 
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08-14-2006, 12:34 AM
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#17 | | Software engineer/hacker
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 5,061
| Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 He wont/shouldnt tell you. |
which one is it? won't or shouldn't? Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 He knows how to make your handheld hard reset, |
yep Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 whitescreen unrecoverably, |
yep Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 send out enough wireless communication to crash your network. |
now there's an idea  Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 He could also make your handheld run 5x as fast, |
yep Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 keep unwanted programs off, |
yep Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 make it so you never had to register another demo program. |
PowerID Quote: | Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 Of course, he cant really release most of these things |
surely you kid me. nothing stops me from uploading the whole Z:\dev\palm\native folder to my site really.
__________________ Annoying me is NOT an approved way of encouraging me to produce software My software:PowerSDHC, PowerDrive, nuRom, UDMH, warpSpeed, PowerDiGi, brightnessFix, etc... Get it all here:http://www.PalmPowerups.com | |
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08-14-2006, 04:03 AM
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#18 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: PARIS
Posts: 17
| Hi,
Actually, it's not that linear. It depends on which classes and predefined functions your program use. Only those ones are linked into the final executable. The worse case is when you use ALL classes, ALL members of ALL classes, and ALL predefined functions (a very not realistic case, IMHO !). Then, the library takes up to 42 Kb in the first segment, and other 84 Kb dispatched into two other segments.
Executables generated with HB++ include support routines. Actually, HB++ works as a C/C++ tool chain. Your program is compiled into standard COFF object files, and those files are linked against a static library to yield the final executable.
The difference is that our runtime library is much bigger than a typical C/C++ library. There are many reasons for that. Mainly:
1/ HB++ is an object oriented language, and Palm OS does not provide any support for that. So, your prc will always contains about 20 kb of code to handle object allocations, late binding of events, exception catching, garbage collection, and so on.
2/ HB++ provides a higher level of abstraction than the native API. For example, you can use the same code to save a database to a VFS file, or to save it to a stream file, or send it over a TCP/IP connection. You can use the same code to draw onto the screen or into a bitmap. You can use SQL-like queries to handle databases. These features make programming with HB++ easier and faster than programming with C/C++. The conterpart is that your executable is bigger.
3/ HB++ automatically takes care of OS differences for you. Unless you rely on specific hardware features, such as high density screen or sound manager, your program will always work the same whatever the device it is running on. This makes our runtime library bigger, since we have to emulate some features when running on old devices.
4/ Palm OS forgot to provide some very useful features, such as converting a string to a floating point value, for example. Our library of course provides this function, but since we have to make it work for every possible case, even those that are unlikely to happen (localization issue, error handling, etc), our function is probably bigger than a similar function written for a specific program.
5/ Many Palm OS API are bogus. For example, the ExgDBRead and ExgDBWrite functions do not behave consistently accross all OS versions, making beaming of a database from an old device to a newer device almost impossible. Wherever possible, HB++ provides replacement functions for these bogus API. This also takes a lot of space in our runtime library.
You can also think of some features that make programming with HB++ easier. For example, an HB++ program can always uses its global variables and all its code segments, even if it is not launched with the sysAppCmdNormalLaunch code. This takes near than 1 kb of extra code, but isn't it really useful ?
Anyway, considering the available amount of memory on the newest devices, I don't think executable size is still an issue.
Regards,
JPA The HB++ team | |
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08-14-2006, 07:56 AM
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#19 | | Programmer by Grace
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,318
| Are any of you having trouble downloading HB? The link seems broken. | |
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08-14-2006, 11:43 AM
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#20 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: PARIS
Posts: 17
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08-14-2006, 12:15 PM
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#21 | | Tungsten T3 - The One
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lima, Perú
Posts: 744
| Quote: | Originally Posted by dmitrygr
surely you kid me. nothing stops me from uploading the whole Z:\dev\palm\native folder to my site really. |
Do it, please do it (:-)) - before you leave us for ppc
Ruben | |
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08-14-2006, 03:03 PM
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#22 | | Coder in training
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Herts, England
Posts: 239
| Quote: | Originally Posted by Sharkk717
don't forget that dmitry codes almost completely in ARM or Thumb assembly and in that sense is unlike 99.999% of the programmers worldwide...
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thats why i respect the guy. It also explains why he's a little cracked, you gotta be to deal with that.
i agree HB++ is a great buy to help kindle ones programming fire, thanks to it i got mainy of my palm ideas of the ground.
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08-18-2006, 03:05 PM
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#23 | | Programmer by Grace
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,318
| I still can't download HB++. The link doesn't work. Just keeps pulling up a cannot display page page. I can get to the link provided, but when I click proceed to download, nothing happens. | |
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08-18-2006, 04:37 PM
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#24 | | Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: PARIS
Posts: 17
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08-18-2006, 09:18 PM
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#25 | | Why Does Palm Disappoint?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,909
| Wow, thats for that elaborate explanation. I started programming for Palm via HB++, thanks to a referrel from Sharky. I did have a problem with reading the Sony MS name in my app but in v2, this issue has been addressed and fixed. Its also really great that you can talk to the devs of HB in a forum if you have any issues, so you get solid, working answers .
JAmerican
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JAmerican
Handspring Treo 90 --> Royal RG135nx --> T-Mobile Sidekick --> T-Mobile Sidekick Color --> PEG-UX40 -- > PEG-UX50--> Samsung T629 (Returned) -- > Palm TX (SOLD)/T-Mobile Sony Ericsson T610(Defective) --> T-Mobile Dash(Broken Screen) --> ASUS EEE 1000H Black/Treo 800w/PEG-VZ90
Accesories: Transcend 16GB SDHC | 8GB Transcend microSD | |
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08-18-2006, 10:15 PM
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#26 | | Programmer by Grace
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,318
| Already tried that download link too. Didn't work either. I can download other files. Not the fileid8 though. | |
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08-18-2006, 10:36 PM
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#27 | | Programmer by Grace
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,318
| Correction none of the files except the .zip will work. All the php's are no good. | |
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03-12-2009, 12:00 PM
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#28 | | Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
| WebService and HB++
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