Mini-Review for Agendus 10

[squeff]

I’ve been a happy DateBk user since 2001. The product is solid, fast, and is very configurable. However, with the release of Agendus 10, I decided to take a look.

What I found was an application with features and a look-and-feel that I liked better than DateBk5. While many people appreciate the “philosophy” behind DateBk5, I saw enough in Agendus 10 to warrant an evaluation.

What I found was a terribly unstable piece of software. Regular crashes, calendar items disappearing, and significant data loss accompanied the 10.0 release. Worse, no manual was made available to explain how to use the new features. Users of Iambic’s “User to User Forum” reported similar problems. Forum moderators blamed users, telling them that they were impatient, expecting too much of Iambic, and saying that there had been a beta test (presumably it was the fault of the beta testers). Beta testers replied that they HAD reported problems during the very short beta test, only to find that some issues were not resolved.

Shortly after the 10.0 release, Iambic did release a 10.01 release which fixed a decent number of issues. However, not all reported issues were resolved and additional issues were reported. The 10.01 release was still not ready, at least for some users (like myself) who need to rely on stable software to manage our calendars, to-do lists, and contacts.

Users because more vocal on the forums, with moderators and Iambic’s “Adriano” (aka “the Jedi Master”) continuing to defend Iambic. Instead of apologizing to users, they continued to blame them for being impatient. It seemed like the moderators and Iambic staff were surprised that users would expect their software to be high quality.

A 10.02 release is promised and has been since 10.01 was released and shown to be buggy. It keeps being delayed – actually, the forum moderators aren’t privy to release dates and yet they keep posting hypothetical release dates – because there are so many things to address. Kudos to Iambic for taking the time needed to fix the bugs and do some real testing. However, forum moderators and Iambic staff still maintain that 10.01 is stable and high quality. I, for one, am not sure why there needs to be a huge 10.02 release (that’s currently scheduled for release more than month after 10.01) if the software is so good. Makes you wonder, huh?

When asked about their policies regarding providing users free bug fixes, their Jedi Master, Adriano posted the following:

“Unfortunately fixing bugs for us is never free, not even for minor updates. Nonetheless we do pass minor updates (which often also have functional and usability improvements) free of charge to all same-version customers.”

It’s nice to know that Iambic is so kind as to fix SOME (but not all or even most) reported bugs for free. What this points out is that Iambic views delivering quality software as a burden. Users should not be surprised when Iambic releases buggy software because their management views quality as a cost and not an imperative. They also expect users to be grateful for any scraps that Iambic decides to throw their way.

Will Iambic fix reported bugs? Adriano apparently does not think they need to. At least not always for free. And certainly only on the schedule that Iambic feels. If it means delaying their next big release (a source of new revenue), then adding new features comes before quality.

Looking at Agendus, I see a product with a lot of potential. While it could stand a few tweaks, it’s well thought out and provides a powerful product. What kills it is that it’s not to be relied on due to bugs. If you don’t care if your calendar is correct, that your Palm data/programs are kept safe, or that alarms will go off when you set them, then Agendus is a good product. If you actually rely on your Palm to keep your life together, then stay away. It can’t be trusted. And given the attitude of Iambic towards quality, I wouldn’t expect them to address all known problems (even some very serious ones) any time soon. Maybe they’ll get around to fixing a problem when Agendus 11 comes out. Oh, but you’ll need to pay for that.

If and when Iambic decides to actually care about quality and release software that I can rely on, I’ll go to Agendus because, as I said, I like it. However, given their quality issues and their view that customers are burdens, it’s not likely.

DateBk5 may not have seen any big upgrades in years, it may not have pizzazz, and it may be lacking some nice features… but at least we know that when Pimlico Software releases something (even in a first beta) it will be of the utmost quality and can be trusted. And you know that Pimlico won’t charge you for bug fixes. Never have.

If only Pimlico’s lone developer/tester/documentation writer/customer service agent could take his talent for high quality development and team with Iambic’s inventive designers and graphic artists… you’d have a terrific piece of software.

I’ll post a more in-depth review once 10.02 comes out – assuming that it’s of a high enough quality that it can be used.

[Brjlk]

If and when Iambic decides to actually care about quality and release software that I can rely on, I’ll go to Agendus because, as I said, I like it.

You can use version 9.06 which is very nice too. I have been using it for several months with no problem at all.

John

[squeff]

You can use version 9.06 which is very nice too. I have been using it for several months with no problem at all.

John

Thanks. It's good to know that Iambic is capable of delivering a solid version.

[blues]

I am so surprised to hear that so many people are finding version 10 so unstable. I have been using 10 since when it was in beta, and haven't come across any unstablity at all. Granted, I haven't really used alot of the advanced features that are probably causing all this, but Agendus 10 hasn't crashed once on me. Not once.

I remember when the Treo 650 came out. I read so many users on this forum, mostly others, say how unstable it was. I almost considered not buying it. Now that I have owned it for a few months, I know it's not as unstable as most people have charged. Is that's what's happening here?

Yes, I've been over to iambic and read alot of the posts there. The first version of a big upgrade like that would expect flaws. Especually within all the newly implemented stuff. But what about the basic functions? Are you experiencing problems doing the same things that DateBK can do? I'd like to see if I can reproduce some of these issues on my device.

[squeff]

I am so surprised to hear that so many people are finding version 10 so unstable. I have been using 10 since when it was in beta, and haven't come across any unstablity at all. Granted, I haven't really used alot of the advanced features that are probably causing all this, but Agendus 10 hasn't crashed once on me. Not once.

I remember when the Treo 650 came out. I read so many users on this forum, mostly others, say how unstable it was. I almost considered not buying it. Now that I have owned it for a few months, I know it's not as unstable as most people have charged. Is that's what's happening here?

Yes, I've been over to iambic and read alot of the posts there. The first version of a big upgrade like that would expect flaws. Especually within all the newly implemented stuff. But what about the basic functions? Are you experiencing problems doing the same things that DateBK can do? I'd like to see if I can reproduce some of these issues on my device.

It shouldn't be a surprise that new features have problems. And I expect this. However, there's been a lot of stonewalling on certain items.

That said, here's a few "bread and butter" items that I'm personally having problems with:

* I have alarm preset turned on. In 75% of the cases, when I create an event/meeting, it doesn't come with a preset alarm.

* It takes 7-10 seconds to start. Given that a datebook/contacts program is often used to quickly look something up, having to wait 10 seconds is too long. This doesn't happen for everyone, mind you, but Iambic has admitted that this is a bug and will be fixed.

* Some entries randomly disappear. Can't say why or under what conditions.

* The trip functionality is new, but it's got several problems.

* The OTA (over the air) updates cause hard crashes, causing data loss. This appears to be specific to certain devices, but I've heard it happens to devices from both Palm and Sony.

* The Agendus Mail program crashes when deleting messages from the server. This appears to be related to Yahoo!, but the fact that it crashes (and requires a "paperclip" reset) shouldn't happen. Iambic has put on hold fixing AGM problems until they are over the hump on AG issues. There's been the suggestion of a major upgrade, so I'm hoping they'll fix this problem before they release the major upgrade ($).

* There have been several UI changes which, while most are quite good, others are head scratchers. For example, there's been a lot of complaining about the change to the time picker. Mind you, this isn't a bug. Just an unpopular design decision.

* Alarms, even when set, don't always go off. Sometimes, when they go off, they keep the device from "falling asleep" when done.

* Preferences don't always stick.

* There's some real goofiness with repeating events. Try editing an event that's in a repeat and you'll get prompted several times (Current/Future/All). And it doesn't always work. If you don't edit repeating events, then you likely won't have these problems.

Frankly, if they fixed the startup performance, the alarm preset issue, and the mysterious "gone missing" events, I'd have higher confidence. There are some design decisions which, as I said, aren't really bugs, that also need to be addressed. The OTA crashes need to be fixed, even though they may only affect certain devices, since this is critical to making 4 different functions (albeit nice-to-have) extra cost items work. Plus, losing all my Palm data is not acceptable.

[wellsjs]

I agree with "blues." I'm using 10.01 and the only noticable "bug" is the delay in program start, which iambic developers say has been/will be addressed in 10.02. While there is certainly room for improvement in the rollout/implementation procedures that have historically plagued iambic, Agendus Pro has been and continues to be the most useful, fun, and innovative application on my TH55. What more could you ask for than two (or more) $9.95 upgrades a year that aren't stable until X.03, but that you can't live without? At least it keeps ownership and use of a PDA interesting! :rolleyes: :eek: :D

[squeff]

I agree with "blues." I'm using 10.01 and the only noticable "bug" is the delay in program start, which iambic developers say has been/will be addressed in 10.02. While there is certainly room for improvement in the rollout/implementation procedures that have historically plagued iambic, Agendus Pro has been and continues to be the most useful, fun, and innovative application on my TH55. What more could you ask for than two (or more) $9.95 upgrades a year that aren't stable until X.03, but that you can't live without? At least it keeps ownership and use of a PDA interesting! :rolleyes: :eek: :D

He He.

To answer your question "what more could you ask for?"

Well, I paid $25 (give or take) for DateBk3 in September, 2001 (4 years ago). I've received DateBk4 and DateBk5 without any additional cost (yes, they currently do charge $10 for 3-4/5). I've received bug fixes and have never had a bug that wasn't fixed before the end of a beta. Can't say what DateBk6's upgrade cost will be, but speculation is that it'll be less than $25.

If I buy Iambic Standard, it'll be $30. Then, it's another $15/year for upgrades (assuming they actually release an upgrade in a year). So, in 4 years, that'd be $90. Or, if I choose not to buy the upgrade, but to pay the $10 single-upgrade charge just 2 times, that'd still be $50.

$50 for 4 years of Agendus vs. $35 for DateBk. True, I'd get more features in Agendus (although, some of the better features are available only in Agendus Pro which ups the 4 year price to $60-$100).

My point is that Agendus costs more. It provides more features, no doubt (which is why I really want it to be stable enough to use). But at a lower quality. I guess it depends if you want (as you say) "fun" or you want a program that actually works. What more can I want? A program that provides both, without me hoping that the vendor has their hand out for another $10 so that I can get a bug fixed. Y'know?

Agendus Standard is

[blues]

One thing that I do agree with you about is the high price. Agendus does cost a fortune.

But I can't try to replicate Some entries randomly disappear. Can't say why or under what conditions. or Preferences don't always stick. You don't have any examples that start like:
Go here, then do this, and then do this, then this bad thing happens.

Hey, we're all here to make our experience better. And if there are bugs you can post, do it. I'm sure that people at iambic are listening, especually if we have something to say. That's what will make Agendus better, and this site better. That's good for everyone.

[ackmondual]

what's the footprint for Agenudus? Close to 2.5MB? Can you customize the installation like with Documents To Go (lose the enhanced todo or address portion of the suite)? Datebook5 is around 730KB, but better to up it to 800KB for the icons as well.

If the footprint for Agendus 10.x is even bigger than that, then that would be another consideration.

[blues]

Can you customize the installation like with Documents To Go (lose the enhanced todo or address portion of the suite)? I think that's an awesome idea. Agendus is extremely bloated and needs to be able to be customized like you suggested. Uninstall Manager reports it to be 2Meg on my Treo 650.

Come to think of it, I really can't stand palm installation programs like what Agendus has implemented. You can't see what your installing until it's already there.

[squeff]

what's the footprint for Agenudus? Close to 2.5MB? Can you customize the installation like with Documents To Go (lose the enhanced todo or address portion of the suite)? Datebook5 is around 730KB, but better to up it to 800KB for the icons as well.

If the footprint for Agendus 10.x is even bigger than that, then that would be another consideration.

No, it's all or nothing. Actually, that's not totally true. You can use the Standard edition or the Pro edition. However, I believe (although I'm not positive) that they are just the same code. Standard just turns off the Pro features. Caveat: I could be wrong.

You don't have to use the mail program.

But, in general, you can't strip of parts of the program.

Also, I should note that the large footprint is Iambic excuse for a 10 second start-up. They claim that any program this big should take a while to start.

[squeff]

But I can't try to replicate or You don't have any examples that start like:
Go here, then do this, and then do this, then this bad thing happens.

* Start the program from the launcher (or from a button, if you have it mapped). Count 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississippi...

* Tap "New" icon. Tap "Meeting." Enter "Test." Tap "No Time" and enter a start/end. Tap OK. Note that there is no "alarm" icon. Confirm that alarms are turned on (Options, Preferences, Alarms, Agendus handles alarms in checked, Remind Me Twice, Play Every 5 Minutes). Confirm that preset is on (Options, Preferences, Meetings, Alarm Preset is checked, 5 minutes).

* Options, Preferences, Auto Update, Every 12 hours, 5:00pm, Confirm unchecked. Wait until 5:00pm. Device wakes. Trying to connect window appears. Clie TH55 WLAN light does not light up. Eventually time out. Gives error. Wait a few seconds. Devices resets and (sometimes) ends in endless loop. Only wait out is to reset device, erasing everything.

For example...

[mcapehart]

Some of you will recognize me as a proponent of Agendus. I'm actually one of those "Mods" squeff refers to.

I see many, many issues with Agendus posted. At least 90% of the time it is either software conflict or a lack of knowledge of use from the user. There are a lot of poorly written applications on the market. Agendus is built as a "one place for everything" application. It has come very close to being that.

When I say that I use Agendus, along with the Desktop application and other apps daily with very little errors or issues, I say it truthfully and without bias. It all depends on what other software you have installed and what expertise you exhibit in using it. Agendus, as great as it is has a big learning curve. With this sometimes comes unwanted, unintentional errors

Granted, many of the bugs are legit. And as Adriano said, this is true for any application. I know for a fact that bugs are being addressed immediately. Also, in addition to bugs, iambic tries their best to implement all valid Feature Requests that users come up with.

The Executives and developers at iambic are EXTREMELY concerned with Customer Service. In fact, it is their number one priority. Of course, revenues are important. Aren't they important for any "for profit" company? However, it will never replace Customer Service. They recognize that without Customer Service there will be no revenues.

One area, however where Customer Service takes a back seat is when someone goes to the company's forum and flames the company and it's employees for the sake of making an invalid point. You have no business in a public forum of this type. Your anger and accusations do nothing but make you look childish. Anyone who takes what you have to say seriously are being greatly misinformed. We welcome anyone to the iambic forum who has a valind need or even a valid complaint, but not character bashing. That's not welcomed anywhere.

If anyone has valid issues with Agendus I will gladly help you work through them.

[mcapehart]

* Start the program from the launcher (or from a button, if you have it mapped). Count 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississippi...
Doesnt' happen for me, even on a slow LifeDrive.

* Tap "New" icon. Tap "Meeting." Enter "Test." Tap "No Time" and enter a start/end. Tap OK. Note that there is no "alarm" icon. Confirm that alarms are turned on (Options, Preferences, Alarms, Agendus handles alarms in checked, Remind Me Twice, Play Every 5 Minutes). Confirm that preset is on (Options, Preferences, Meetings, Alarm Preset is checked, 5 minutes). Same thing required if setting up a meeting in Outlook. Maybe try setting up Templates.

* Options, Preferences, Auto Update, Every 12 hours, 5:00pm, Confirm unchecked. Wait until 5:00pm. Device wakes. Trying to connect window appears. Clie TH55 WLAN light does not light up. Eventually time out. Gives error. Wait a few seconds. Devices resets and (sometimes) ends in endless loop. Only wait out is to reset device, erasing everything. Not happening for me, even with a slow LifeDrive. Maybe your Network connection is not set up properly.

For example...

[mcapehart]

No, it's all or nothing. Actually, that's not totally true. You can use the Standard edition or the Pro edition. However, I believe (although I'm not positive) that they are just the same code. Standard just turns off the Pro features. Caveat: I could be wrong. You are. Different codes required.

Also, I should note that the large footprint is Iambic excuse for a 10 second start-up. They claim that any program this big should take a while to start.
Partially true, but it all depends on the size of your PIM databases.

[blues]

mcapehart,
What's your opinion about how big Agendus is?

I really like how Agendus manages my datebook and contacts. There isn't another application that even comes close, in my opinion. But the feature set is getting long. At what point is it too long?

Adding pictures to your contacts for instance. I could care less about that. It would be cool to be able to take that feature away, and reduce the application size.

The auto update feature is also another portion I could do without. What's your thoughts?

[SoS]

You can use version 9.06 which is very nice too. I have been using it for several months with no problem at all.

John

well, yes but has serious issues with the new deviecs (LD in particular) and these will not be fixed in a 9.xx version ie you will have to pay anothetr 9.95 top get bug fixes for a previous version. I use 9.06 on my LD and it is basically fine but I am not going to pay them any more cash to fix problems that were highlighted in the user forums before 10.XX cam out. They are playing an ugly game and Im not going to support it any more
:mad:

ps. think very carefully before you lay out your hard-earned cash for the program - I really think they are running a scam that needs to be crushed!

[mcapehart]

mcapehart,
What's your opinion about how big Agendus is?

I really like how Agendus manages my datebook and contacts. There isn't another application that even comes close, in my opinion. But the feature set is getting long. At what point is it too long?

Adding pictures to your contacts for instance. I could care less about that. It would be cool to be able to take that feature away, and reduce the application size.

The auto update feature is also another portion I could do without. What's your thoughts?
The photo feature is not a byte consumer unless you use it. The feature code itself being present is not significant. Same with the Auto Update. Not a real big byte maker.

BTW, these two particular features are a result of multiple requests by users for them.

Also, thes Auto Update is not present in the Standard Version.

[mcapehart]

well, yes but has serious issues with the new deviecs (LD in particular) and these will not be fixed in a 9.xx version ie you will have to pay anothetr 9.95 top get bug fixes for a previous version. I use 9.06 on my LD and it is basically fine but I am not going to pay them any more cash to fix problems that were highlighted in the user forums before 10.XX cam out. They are playing an ugly game and Im not going to support it any more
:mad:

ps. think very carefully before you lay out your hard-earned cash for the program - I really think they are running a scam that needs to be crushed!
Absolutely couldn't be more false. The fact that bug fixes appear in a paid upgrade is nothing more than coincidence. I assure you it wasn't done intentionally. The requests for new features is what pushed 10 out the door, not the ability to capitalize on bug fixes.

[squeff]

Some of you will recognize me as a proponent of Agendus. I'm actually one of those "Mods" squeff refers to.

I see many, many issues with Agendus posted. At least 90% of the time it is either software conflict or a lack of knowledge of use from the user. There are a lot of poorly written applications on the market. Agendus is built as a "one place for everything" application. It has come very close to being that.

When I say that I use Agendus, along with the Desktop application and other apps daily with very little errors or issues, I say it truthfully and without bias. It all depends on what other software you have installed and what expertise you exhibit in using it. Agendus, as great as it is has a big learning curve. With this sometimes comes unwanted, unintentional errors

Granted, many of the bugs are legit. And as Adriano said, this is true for any application. I know for a fact that bugs are being addressed immediately. Also, in addition to bugs, iambic tries their best to implement all valid Feature Requests that users come up with.

The Executives and developers at iambic are EXTREMELY concerned with Customer Service. In fact, it is their number one priority. Of course, revenues are important. Aren't they important for any "for profit" company? However, it will never replace Customer Service. They recognize that without Customer Service there will be no revenues.

One area, however where Customer Service takes a back seat is when someone goes to the company's forum and flames the company and it's employees for the sake of making an invalid point. You have no business in a public forum of this type. Your anger and accusations do nothing but make you look childish. Anyone who takes what you have to say seriously are being greatly misinformed. We welcome anyone to the iambic forum who has a valind need or even a valid complaint, but not character bashing. That's not welcomed anywhere.

If anyone has valid issues with Agendus I will gladly help you work through them.


Few things.

First, I want everyone to know that Michael Capehart is actually very friendly, very helpful, and does a good job. Most of the mods do. However, they are at a disadvantage in that they are simply users. I've assumed that they respond to questions, like many of us a 1SRC because we like to help, without any compensation (other than maybe free copies of the software). Michael, if this isn't correct, please let us know if you do receive payment for your services (you don't have to say how much :) ).

Second, I posted my comments here based on my experience. To be clear, I went around talking about how much I liked the functionality of Agendus 10, only to have dozens on people e-mail me negative comments. All of the comments centered on low software quality, having to pay to move up to a major release just to get a bug fix, and generally poor customer service from Iambic staff (no one, buy the way, criticised the mods). I've never seen such negativety towards a software product or company. Even Microsoft, which we all love to hate.

However, I persisted in saying "no, I'm sure you're wrong. Agendus is a good product." However, this only spurred dozens of further "warnings" about how Agendus would trash my data, how I'd spend $100 just to get software that was supposed to work in the first place, etc. I started to check out reviews of Agendus and found that many reviewers thought Agendus (in its various versions) was good and recommended it. However, there were sometimes followups that said "sorry, but I kept in on my device for a month before I totally gave up on it and went back to DateBk... it just wasn't stable enough."

As Michael knows, I posted these concerns and he personally answered my concerns, letting me know that Iambic doesn't believe it operating this way. That they have high quality software and good customer service. Basically, that I was misinformed.

I believed him and thanked him. However, in the next few weeks, I'd personally found that everything that I was told was true. It was clear that 10.0 had been rushed to market. It was clear that the rush was so great that the manual wasn't even finished. It was clear that 10.01 was also rushed out, to satisfy the outcry. And, what personally bugged me was the fact that some (but not all) of the mods and Adriano were posting responses to people that, to my mind were unprofessional because they (a) claimed nothing was wrong, (b) told the customer to be patient, (c) told the customer "it works on my device" and offered no recourse for the fact that the mod had a totally different device.

Michael, what would you do when you've heard about how bad a company is and then witnessed those exact problems on your own? You'd get annoyed and feel like the mods, who were nice, were just giving you a line. Wouldn't you? When your own eyes experience things that totally correspond to the rumors, is there any reason to believe that, this time, it'll be different?

I'm sorry if you were bothered that I was honest about things in the forums. It's clear that happy talk is what you all want, at least from your comments above. It's Iambic's servers, so they have every right to say "don't post that here." However, you need to consider if what I've said is exemplified by your saying "You have no business in a public forum of this type. Your anger and accusations do nothing but make you look childish. Anyone who takes what you have to say seriously are being greatly misinformed. We welcome anyone to the iambic forum who has a valind need or even a valid complaint, but not character bashing. That's not welcomed anywhere."

Your comments show a real problem. Pretend that a complaint is invalid, call someone childish, and them expect people to say "yeah, that looks like a company that puts customer service first."

I stand behind my comments, above. If the 1SRC mods feel that criticism of another company or product is unacceptable, then they have every right to delete my post. However, this is not Iambic's boards, so you have no right to say I have "no business in a public forum." I have every right to post my honest observations and experiences, including direct quotes from Iambic employees.

I'll let others make up their own minds. Try Agendus. If it works for you, wonderful. If not, then go with something else. Simple as that.

[squeff]

Doesnt' happen for me, even on a slow LifeDrive.

Michael, it's been acknowledged as a bug. I don't care what your LifeDrive does. I care if it works on my device. Several people have reported a 7-10 second startup and since one of the other mods already said it's a bug.

Same thing required if setting up a meeting in Outlook. Maybe try setting up Templates.

Also a bug (having alarm presets not work). Are you saying that Iambic was designed so that I have to manually set an alarm? The built-in Datebook auto sets alarms. Why would Agendus REMOVE such a feature. I think you may have misunderstood or I may have mistyped something.

Not happening for me, even with a slow LifeDrive. Maybe your Network connection is not set up properly.

Again, your LifeDrive is irrelavant. I appreciate that no one at Iambic has a Clie TH55 to test this on, but I've reported it. If you want to say "we're not supporting Clie devices," then so be it. But, please, don't go around saying that it works for you and therefore it's THE USER'S FAULT that it doesn't work right. I'd suggest that you go back to the Iambic forum and read the details I've posted about this.

For everyone else: all other wireless activities work. I have no problems with any other programs, including other programs that "wake" in order to do an OTA transfer. The problem is unique to Agendus.

What's more, it's AGENDUS that's crashing. Even if I had bad network settings, there's still a problem where Agendus crashes my device and causes the need for a reset.

Or are you saying that I should be punished for (a) not owning a LifeDrive and (b) maybe having a wrong network setting?

[squeff]

Absolutely couldn't be more false. The fact that bug fixes appear in a paid upgrade is nothing more than coincidence. I assure you it wasn't done intentionally. The requests for new features is what pushed 10 out the door, not the ability to capitalize on bug fixes.

Michael, don't you see... people don't want to pay to get a bug fixed. I appreciate that sometimes bugs are found months after a product is out. In these cases, when a new version is about to be released, it's most reasonable to include it in the new version.

However, when a bug was reported during the beta or during the first few weeks of a release, what's the excuse for not fixing it in a minor release.

Personally, I don't think it's a scam. I take Adriano and the mods at their word: developers just don't have time to fix all the bugs, so some of them just get delayed in being implemented. While this might be good for your developers, it means that users have to live with bugs.

Michael, do YOU find it acceptable? What about if it were another company? What if Ford told you that they're not going to fix your car and if you want a working air bag, you can buy a whole new model (you get NEW features!)? You'd be mad. Smaller scale, sure. But you'd say that Ford was being arrogant.

Maybe if you'd listen to customers who are making accusations and ask "how can we do better" instead of "how can we ridicule this person" you'd have something. Strive to do better! I know you can.

[bh77a]

squeff,

I am sorry to hear of your problems on your TH55. Bugs are frustrating. At the same time though, I can find at least one bug (or what I perceive as a bug) in every program on my TE (and there are a lot).

The start up time is a little slow... about 4-5 seconds on my TE. However, I cannot say that I am unsatisfied with Agendus... it offers more functionality updates that just about any other program on the market. I am willing to take the bugs and even pay for some of the fixes as long as increased functionality comes. If a point comes where updating isn't necessary for features, etc., I won't.

Overall, what I am getting at is that I am willing to pay a little and work through a couple of bugs in exchange for software that IS updated and has NEW features added to it regularly. I can think of a few programs (major ones mind you) that have basically turned in to vaporware... I am glad that Agendus isn't going down that road.

[wellsjs]

squeff,

You are obviously "one unhappy camper" in regards to your Agendus experience. No one is going to convince you otherwise. But it does appear that you are relatively alone (yes, there are a lot of folks with issues and frustrations on their forums, but they aren't "throwing in the towel" on the product). So . . . are you trying to convince all of us who are relatively satisfied to be as dissatisfied as you are? :eek: What's your agenda? What's your point? :rolleyes:

[SoS]

Absolutely couldn't be more false. The fact that bug fixes appear in a paid upgrade is nothing more than coincidence. I assure you it wasn't done intentionally. The requests for new features is what pushed 10 out the door, not the ability to capitalize on bug fixes.


I'm sorry but this is unutterable BS. Iambic have a long history of taking known bugs into a new version, requiring another 9.95 to fix. In any case, how can it be coincidence? You say yourself that bugfixes have been carried over so that smacks of carelessness at best. :mad:

[blues]

I just think that there are way too many consumers out there that can do nothing but complain. If the product is too buggy, or too expensive, people eventually would buy something else. The company would then loose all their customers and go out of buisness. I don't think that this is happening to Iambic. It seems like they are pretty successful.

I happen to think the program is expensive, but it's almost worth it. If it wasn't worth it, Iambic would realize this and lower their price from lack of sales. They must be doing something right.

[mcapehart]

I'm finished with this thread. It's a waste of time. The bottom line is I know how iambic feels about Customer Satisfaction and I know the accusations stated here are badly exaggerated.

With a product as powerful as Agendus and with so many users with multiple Feature Requests (all great ones, I might add), there are going to be some bugs during implementation and trial. Even I get frustrated many times because something doesn't work properly in Agendus, but that's not because the company took advantage of me and my money.

The only way to identify these bugs is to get the product in the hands of the users. The developers cannot possibly identify every bug because every user uses it differently. Every user has a different method of using the features. There are so many devices on the market that have different OS tweaks (and some devices that are no longer supported that are still out there). This inconsistency with user interface and the need to adapt to a long line of devices breeds so many different scenarios of possible bugs.

Regardless of what your experience has been, I am 100% certain that the mission of iambic is not to take advantage of its customer base in any way.

[squeff]

squeff,

You are obviously "one unhappy camper" in regards to your Agendus experience. No one is going to convince you otherwise. But it does appear that you are relatively alone (yes, there are a lot of folks with issues and frustrations on their forums, but they aren't "throwing in the towel" on the product). So . . . are you trying to convince all of us who are relatively satisfied to be as dissatisfied as you are? :eek: What's your agenda? What's your point? :rolleyes:

I'm sharing my experience. Others are free to evaluate the product and the company on their own and make their own decisions.

Is there a reason that you're against people sharing their experiences? What's YOUR agenda?

I'll be totally honest: the reason I'm so annoyed is that MANY people warned me about Iambic and Agendus. I defended Iambic/Agendus and got ridiculed. And then, it turns out, they were right. Iambic and Agendus are exactly what they said. I tried, I really did. And I feel ashamed that I defended them only to find out that the negatives I heard were true.

I am relatively alone? I don't think so.

Here are a few real quotes:

"Enjoy Agendus, and we will still be here when you come back to Datebook."

"It seems to me you are a person who likes glitz and glitter and new toys better than solid reliable workhorses that get the work done in an excellent manner."

"If it's buggy it is bad and poorly written by definition. Why would anybody want to use buggy software that apparently loses data?"

"After three or four months I came back to DateBk5. Bottom line: DateBk5 is more reliable, more elegant, and (in most cases) more powerful."

"A datebook replacement that crashes or exhibits bugs every two or three days simply isn't acceptable."

"90 percent of this newsgroup had you written off as a malcontent [for supporting Agendus]"

"If you think being a constant beta tester for an unresponsive company (I'm sorry, I've heard too many horror stories about Iambic to be at all swayed with your thoughts of 'responsiveness') then buy their product."

"Last month I had in Palm Agendus and tried to use it, but I moved back to
DateBk."

"Dewar is slower and more methodical, perhaps where as Iambic is more progressive in trying to get new features included into a new release..." (from an Iambic mod)

"I would prefer to go with Iambic because of there adding and updating their program with all of the new features. Even with a buggy 'history'." (from an Iambic mod)

"I liked Agendus when I first reviewed it, but now that I actually have to live with it, I find that it's much to prone to crashes to keep. I've removed it and gone back to DateBk."

"I posted a bug during the beta test and it was confirmed as a real bug. However, it wasn't fixed when 10.0 came out. What gives?"

[squeff]

I'm finished with this thread. It's a waste of time. The bottom line is I know how iambic feels about Customer Satisfaction and I know the accusations stated here are badly exaggerated.

With a product as powerful as Agendus and with so many users with multiple Feature Requests (all great ones, I might add), there are going to be some bugs during implementation and trial. Even I get frustrated many times because something doesn't work properly in Agendus, but that's not because the company took advantage of me and my money.

The only way to identify these bugs is to get the product in the hands of the users. The developers cannot possibly identify every bug because every user uses it differently. Every user has a different method of using the features. There are so many devices on the market that have different OS tweaks (and some devices that are no longer supported that are still out there). This inconsistency with user interface and the need to adapt to a long line of devices breeds so many different scenarios of possible bugs.

Regardless of what your experience has been, I am 100% certain that the mission of iambic is not to take advantage of its customer base in any way.

Michael, answer this simple question. If I report a bug on my TH55, will Iambic address it? Or will they simply say "the TH55 is not a current device, so we're not making fixing bugs for it a priority"?

The answer to this question matters, because it shows what I'm talking about.

Anyone notice how defensive Michael is? Instead of proving me wrong, he's avoiding the issues and calling me childish. This is EXACTLY what's got me so steamed. Had Iambic simply had people who could respond to my initially very calm comments, none of this would have happened. However, they chose to have volunteers (Michael, you still didn't confirm this) that put on happy faces instead of actually trying to give honest responses.

[mcapehart]

Michael, answer this simple question. If I report a bug on my TH55, will Iambic address it? Or will they simply say "the TH55 is not a current device, so we're not making fixing bugs for it a priority"?

The answer to this question matters, because it shows what I'm talking about.
Yes. Send me a PM and I will happily and personally address it if it's within my expertise.

Anyone notice how defensive Michael is? Instead of proving me wrong, he's avoiding the issues and calling me childish. This is EXACTLY what's got me so steamed. Had Iambic simply had people who could respond to my initially very calm comments, none of this would have happened. However, they chose to have volunteers (Michael, you still didn't confirm this) that put on happy faces instead of actually trying to give honest responses.
I'm not being defensive. I just don't have time to focus all of my energies on one upset, vocal person who is determined to bash the character of a company and its representatives. I have other users with CALM requests for fixes and requests to address.

Again, PM me and I will do everything within my ability to help resolve your issues. If I can't I will work on it until I do.

Now, can I finish with this thread?

[blues]

Now, can I finish with this thread? I think most unwarrented complaints are ignored. What else can you do?

I'm so glad I don't work in customer service.

[mcapehart]

I really don't mind continuing to help people with questions. I just don't want to continue the flame war.

I will be glad to assist with anything. Sorry for the misleading statement.

[wellsjs]

Is there a reason that you're against people sharing their experiences? What's YOUR agenda?My agenda is you started this thread with your "Mini-Review" (ha! ha! More like ranting and bashing! :eek: ). Then most of the responders here have disagreed with you, not entirely, but to a large extent, and yet you want to go on . . . and on . . . and on . . .

Maybe you should calm down, reflect on why it is you are so completely dissatisfied, when many users are relatively satisfied. Is the glass half full or half empty? ;)

[fanrat10]

...indicates to me squeff is obsessed with trying to find every individual possible who has expressed some sort of dissatisfaction with the iambic line of products. As mcapehart stated earlier, I often find issues with the product. Some are legitimate bug, some are Palm branded software issues, others could be hardware related. I don't jump to conclusions and point fingers, I work to address the issues to improve the product for both myself and other users.

If squeff could redirect the time and energy (and concern) which has been put into thet rants and dwelling on dissatisfaction into constructive input into bettering the product, the iambic community might actually be better off. However, this is not the case and that energy has been directed into a series of postings on the iambic and other forums in an attempt to give iambic a bad reputation.

If you read the threads to which squeff has posted, there are a variety of individuals who have questioned squeff's motives. In all of the threads, squeff has been offered individualized help and in all cases, squeff has not provided the detailed information to receive the help. It is as if squeff enjoys bashing the company and its products.

As such, I concur with mcapehart. There is not much more we can do to help squeff or change any of squeff's opinions. That said, all who read this and other threads to which squeff has posted, please take squeff's comments within the context of the entire thread.

[squeff]

...indicates to me squeff is obsessed with trying to find every individual possible who has expressed some sort of dissatisfaction with the iambic line of products. As mcapehart stated earlier, I often find issues with the product. Some are legitimate bug, some are Palm branded software issues, others could be hardware related. I don't jump to conclusions and point fingers, I work to address the issues to improve the product for both myself and other users.

If squeff could redirect the time and energy (and concern) which has been put into thet rants and dwelling on dissatisfaction into constructive input into bettering the product, the iambic community might actually be better off. However, this is not the case and that energy has been directed into a series of postings on the iambic and other forums in an attempt to give iambic a bad reputation.

If you read the threads to which squeff has posted, there are a variety of individuals who have questioned squeff's motives. In all of the threads, squeff has been offered individualized help and in all cases, squeff has not provided the detailed information to receive the help. It is as if squeff enjoys bashing the company and its products.

As such, I concur with mcapehart. There is not much more we can do to help squeff or change any of squeff's opinions. That said, all who read this and other threads to which squeff has posted, please take squeff's comments within the context of the entire thread.


Actually, Michael DID help me. We moved our discussion to PM and e-mail and he was very helpful. Kudos to him.

Fanrat, thanks for signing up to 1SRC just so that you could post your comments. I know this must have been important enough for you to make this your first post.

[fanrat10]

I'm glad to hear you took things off-line to get help. Michael is extremely knowledgeable with the iambic product line. In addition he is lucid and concise in his communication and advice. I trust you found his aid useful and, hopefully, mind changing.

I hope you will also have found iambic's initiative to provide quality customer service a reassuring factor in your future software decisions and commentary.

Best regards.

[StrikerRJ]

mcapehart,
What's your opinion about how big Agendus is?

I really like how Agendus manages my datebook and contacts. There isn't another application that even comes close, in my opinion. But the feature set is getting long. At what point is it too long?

Adding pictures to your contacts for instance. I could care less about that. It would be cool to be able to take that feature away, and reduce the application size.

The auto update feature is also another portion I could do without. What's your thoughts?

One idea would be to make Agendus modular, but I guess this would make the software MORE prone to bugs, and that is a trade-off I believe NO Agendus user is willing to make.

I will give my legitimate, user-geared, pro Palm-user and Palm website co-editor, ex-Datebk4 and ex-Datebk5 user, Datebk5-forum reader, CESD-admirer point of view:

- yes Agendus is "prettier" than Datebk5, way prettier in fact
- yes Agendus takes more advantage of my Treo 650 than Datebk5
- yes Agendus has more features
- no Agendus is not STABLE software, but seems to be walking in that direction
- no I am not having "lost data" problems in Agendus
- yes Agendus is resetting on me once in a while when an alarm is activated (although this issue is now less frequent - almost to the point of being rare - with 10.01)
- yes Agendus takes a few seconds to load on my Treo 650 (a LifeDrive is NOT a slow Palm, maybe you ought to check its CPU, dear Agendus-man :P) and I do believe it SHOULD do better - this IS our most important and accessed application (more than PHONE for me!)
- yes I have the "slow alarm screen" bug (90% of the times it takes almost 7 seconds to show the screen) - it seems to happen when I'm NOT running Agendus, if I'm using Agendus and an alarm sounds, then it's OK
- yes I will be giving Agendus more credit and waiting for the next releases to see if those problems are fixed
- yes I am waiting for Datebk6 and depeding on what is coming I will switch again
- yes Agendus having a desktop version has been a MAJOR benefit to me, I simply LOVE being able to FULLY manage my calendar in my notebook
- yes the integration Agendus offers between calendar and contacts is great
- yes the fact that Agendus smartly integrates PalmOne's contacts fields (like Birthday) in calendar pleases me
- no I do not like that Agendus relies on it's own "picture" contact instead of using PalmOne's (this is TRULY a problem for us Treo users)
- yes I find the "picture cropping" feature a SUPERB idea (one that should be implemented by other delevopers)

I think that's about it.

I believe it is very good for us, Palm USERS, when two great products are available and battle for our preference. I have been a Datebk user for a while now and only with version 10 did Iambic convince me to try their software. I am impressed and pleased, BUT issues - important ones - remain. So at this point it is up to Iambic (to fix their bugs) and CESD (to release Datebk6) to help me determine in which camp I will be staying... for now.

[StrikerRJ]

My agenda is you started this thread with your "Mini-Review" (ha! ha! More like ranting and bashing! :eek: ). Then most of the responders here have disagreed with you, not entirely, but to a large extent, and yet you want to go on . . . and on . . . and on . . .

Maybe you should calm down, reflect on why it is you are so completely dissatisfied, when many users are relatively satisfied. Is the glass half full or half empty? ;)

Well, if SOMEONE here is on an agenda, it is YOU, that's for sure, since you seem to be unable to post something that ADDS to the discussion, maybe YOUR review of Agendus, what you like and dislike, what bugs YOU have in your Palm with Agendus 10, etc...

Just follow MY example...

Or will you now say that in your Palm Agendus 10 has *NOT ONE BUG* whatsoever, is *BLAZINGLY FAST* and some smart comments like that?!? :)

Please... Your comments are SO biased they insult my Treo... :P

[blues]

Please... Your comments are SO biased they insult my Treo... :P Welcome to the discussion Striker. Nice to see that you've decided to join 1src.

But wellsjs has added to this discussion. He simply pointed out that squeff was in the minority, and he should reconsider all his negitive bashing. He said that because bashing is not constructive.

[wellsjs]

Well, if SOMEONE here is on an agenda, it is YOU, that's for sure, since you seem to be unable to post something that ADDS to the discussion, maybe YOUR review of Agendus, what you like and dislike, what bugs YOU have in your Palm with Agendus 10, etc...

Just follow MY example...

Or will you now say that in your Palm Agendus 10 has *NOT ONE BUG* whatsoever, is *BLAZINGLY FAST* and some smart comments like that?!? :)

Please... Your comments are SO biased they insult my Treo... :PThe most insulting comments (to you) are your own. I see this is your second post. Welcome to 1src. I prefer the opinions of seasoned contributors to this forum over yours, and I have had too many complimentary ones to pay any attention to yours. BTW, if you would read through the many threads dealing with Agendus here at 1src, you would find that I have provided much detail to this subject and many others OVER THE YEARS! Don't make the fact that you're lazy or can't read my problem! :eek:

Your attack on me is so unwarranted, I'm guessing that what really has you upset with me is what I stand for. Could that be your real issue? :rolleyes:

[mcapehart]

...- yes Agendus takes a few seconds to load on my Treo 650 (a LifeDrive is NOT a slow Palm, maybe you ought to check its CPU, dear Agendus-man :P) and I do believe it SHOULD do better - this IS our most important and accessed application (more than PHONE for me!)

It's a well-known fact that the LD has a short lag for loading any application. So YES it is slower than most devices without a Hard Drive. I was trying to make a point by using the LifeDrive as an example.

[vregan]

I'd like to support what Squeff has outlined in this thread.

I found this forum via the DateBK Yahoo Group, where I've been a member for a couple years. I'm a user of Agendus, Beyond Contacts, and DateBK5.

Agendus 10.0 and 10.01 are terribly buggy. Customer Service from actual Iambic staff does, at times, border on rude and seems to always deflect taking responsibility for their own errors and mistakes.

The pat response when the Iambic groups doesn't like what you've pointed out is to try to redirect you to provide them with details of what issues you have with their product. This allows them to try to remove the focus from their poor ways of dealing with customers and their downward spiral when it comes to their customer service reputation. If they want to know the details of what any user has reported regarding the product, they can easily pull up the users forum name and look at their posts. Instead they try to make users (Squeff and others) look like they don't have real issues by asking them to constantly repeat every issue they've already brought to Iambic's attention. That process (poor customer treatment and a company with a "we can do no wrong" attitude) have become the bigger issues for many people on their forums than the actual headaches with their product.

When their product works on a users device it can be one of the best products available--so it's not that they are incapable of good work. The larger issue (as I see it) is they are so bent on getting two major versions out each year that they've shortened beta testing (which should be longer with more devices on the market and more features on their products) in order to keep getting money in the door.

That said, when they do come out with an major release, they would do well to begin updating it every 2-3 days with bugfixes as needed. This idea of waiting a month to update the many bugs is really what has caused many to be upset with Iambic, many to not demo their new version, many to revert to other vendors products, and many to revert back to 9.06.

In any event, Squeff isn't too far off in his assessment of Iambic.

[blues]

I'd like to support what Squeff has outlined in this thread.....
...In any event, Squeff isn't too far off in his assessment of Iambic. Yeah, Agendus has some bugs. But to give Iambic the bashing that Squeff did is unfair. Agendus is extremely popular, and therefore will get a wide range of responces from their customers. They will not please everyone. Iambic has given the community an awesome application in Agendus. One of the most important and most used apps out there. They deserve constructive criticism.

People who can't give constructive criticism should find a better product elsewhere. Better yet, they should write your own app that's better!

[ackmondual]

Yeah, Agendus has some bugs. But to give Iambic the bashing that Squeff did is unfair. Agendus is extremely popular, and therefore will get a wide range of responces from their customers. They will not please everyone. Iambic has given the community an awesome application in Agendus. One of the most important and most used apps out there. They deserve constructive criticism.

People who can't give constructive criticism should find a better product elsewhere. Better yet, they should write your own app that's better!

Popular apps will definately have their share of unhappy sailors, but there's enough of it concerning Iambic to be taking heed.

[wellsjs]

Success and criticism go hand-in-hand! ;)

I definately understand the Agendus "detractor's" position. If a feature-rich, but somewhat buggy (early versions) PIM application does not meet one's needs, or agree with their fortitude, then DateBk is probably right for them. Iambic is innovative and aggressive with their Agendus PIM product. Yes, I think they could do a better job of quality control in their implementation processes.

I tend to thrive on the cutting (sometimes "bleeding") edge! :) So I would rather have the innovative features that Iambic takes risks on rather than tried-and-true dull stuff! So I CHOOSE to be forgiving of their shortfalls, but I do voice my displeasure to them, and frequently (if you check their forums). For those who CHOOSE not to be patient and forgiving, buy and use something else . . . it's as simple as that! ;)

[vregan]

I tend to thrive on the cutting (sometimes "bleeding") edge! :) So I would rather have the innovative features that Iambic takes risks on rather than tried-and-true dull stuff!.....For those who CHOOSE not to be patient and forgiving, buy and use something else . . .
Yes, but when you get used to the innovation in a working version like 9.06 it's hard to put your life on hold for 45-60 days in hopes that Iambic will get you back to a working version in 10.02. I guess it's the steps backward (for example, on my device you can no longer set meeting times with a treo 600 keyboard on 10.01--kind of important in a scheduling ap!) that make me wonder if Iambic really understands users.

[mcapehart]

Yes, but when you get used to the innovation in a working version like 9.06 it's hard to put your life on hold for 45-60 days in hopes that Iambic will get you back to a working version in 10.02. I guess it's the steps backward (for example, on my device you can no longer set meeting times with a treo 600 keyboard on 10.01--kind of important in a scheduling ap!) that make me wonder if Iambic really understands users. I agree with your first statement.

Regarding iambic "really understanding users,"...I believe everyone, except myself at iambic actually carry a Treo 650 for personal use. Of course this doesn't discount the fact that bugs still appear, but I assure you iambic does understand users, because they are users.

[wellsjs]

Yes, but when you get used to the innovation in a working version like 9.06 it's hard to put your life on hold for 45-60 days in hopes that Iambic will get you back to a working version in 10.02. I guess it's the steps backward (for example, on my device you can no longer set meeting times with a treo 600 keyboard on 10.01--kind of important in a scheduling ap!) that make me wonder if Iambic really understands users.I understand your pain. I guess this is what I struggle with, and have stated in so many words several times before: Iambic could have done like Landware (PocketQuicken) and kept 10.0 in development and even non-public beta for 8-18 months. In which case we would have no access to these aggressive new features until sometime next year. Or they could do as they have done, although I would recommend a little more restraint, and feel and have expressed that they released 10.0 too soon and should have had several more beta builds prior to that release.

But speaking strictly personally, I would rather have new features sooner rather than later, even if it means working through the pain of things not working perfectly. Landware came out with 2.5 of PocketQuicken, in my opinion, about 18 months late. If you check their revision history, there has been none! :eek: That means they worked out ALL the bugs prior to public release of the product. I would rather have had a hi-res version of PQ 18 months earlier, even if it meant living through a few bug fixes.

I have, with Iambic Agendus and other products, like Pocket Tunes currently, reverted to older builds until the next release because I could not tolerate a particular bug. Others may be able to tolerate them or they may have a device unaffected by that particular bug. PT 3.1.1 currently has a bug (acknowledge by NormSoft) and their recommendation, pending new release with a fix, is to go back to 3.0.9 (affects Sonys only, apparently). So, we see in the Palm world of multiple vendor hardware and OEM software proprietary coding, a very difficult environment for developers to work in to please everyone. So here are some things we can all do to help make things better for all:

1) Let those less effected have the code early.
2) Be helpful by contributing to solving problems on the developer's forums. It's sometimes appropriate to be upset and to vocalize it, but it NEVER helps to berate and rant, either directly to the developer, or in public forums such as 1src.
3) Patiently revert to previous build when confronted by an intolerable bug for your device. By all means let the developer know about your issue though.
4) Realize and accept that what is or isn't tolerable for you may result in a different experience for someone else. Respect that! ;)

[blues]

I don't know if anyone here knows already or not, but all you Iambic bashers out there can get Agendus 10 for a measly $9.95 with the following discount code. RAPPX000U at Iambic's website (http://www.iambic.com/agenduspro/palmos/buy.asp). And that's not even the upgrade price!

Is that cheap enough for you?

[applejosh]

I think Agendus is an ambitious product that certainly does do a lot. My main complaint is the bugginess of the software when first released. I understand there are going to be bugs and such, but from what I've read, many of the bugs being fixed after the official release were present (and identified) in the beta's. I would rather the beta be stable before releasing it to the general public, which will invariably produce more bugs given the wider audience. It just looks like iambic was willing to release a known less-than-perfect product to fill the coffers. Nothing wrong with making money, but I still would liked to have seen a little more thorough of a beta process before releasing. It would help settle some of the brouhaha surrounding initial releases. Obviously, ranting and screaming over the whole thing won't add up to a hill of beans if people still buy it, so no sense in complaining page after page about it. For iambic to really concentrate on the stability of initial releases, lots of people need to withhold their upgrade/purchase funds. Money talks. Everything else is usually background noise.

[ackmondual]

I don't know if anyone here knows already or not, but all you Iambic bashers out there can get Agendus 10 for a measly $9.95 with the following discount code. RAPPX000U at Iambic's website (http://www.iambic.com/agenduspro/palmos/buy.asp). And that's not even the upgrade price!

Is that cheap enough for you?

It would be if it worked. Instead, i'm getting:

"The promotion code 'RAPPX000U' has expired."

[blues]

"The promotion code 'RAPPX000U' has expired."
I tested it before posting that message, and it worked.
They must have changed it today.
Bummer...

[squeff]

FYI, 10.02 is out. They fixed a bunch of stuff and made two 2 UI improvements (making the "card" optional and changing the time picker).

Of the bugs I've reported, none has actually been totally fixed. The startup time HAS been decreased, although not enough. Several others have reported this as well (it's not just me) on a variety of devices. No word from Iambic on plans to continue addressing this problem or not. No word from Iambic is another minor release is planned or not to address the remaining issues that have been reported.

On a personal note, I requested a refund. When 10.03 comes out, I'll likely try it again and see if performance has been improved to an acceptable level and if the other bugs I've reported (including reproducable hard crashes) has been addressed. If so, they I'll repurchase.

Also on a personal note, I want to thank Michael. Since the earlier posts here, he's gone out of his way to try to assist me. However, he is not in a position to decide what bugs get fixed when (and I'm not blaming him for that), so it really didn't help decide to keep the software that didn't work for me.

If Agendus works for you, then by all means use it. For example, as Michael points out, the developers own Treo 650s, so if you have one of those, chances are good that you WILL have a solid program. For me (who owns a TH55), however, bugs remain and it's just not worth $40 for a program that doesn't work. I'm sure that no one here would disagree with that.

Good luck to others. Maybe enough people will buy Agendus that Iambic can afford to buy some other devices to do testing? Also, Iambic has started placing ads for other companies on their forums, so I'm hoping this is another fund raising effort to hire more staff, buy more testing hardware/software, and invest in their offerings!

[ackmondual]

Curious, Agendus 10.x is also geared for tr600 users as well right? So everything the tr650 does except in low-res, w/o BT, and compatible with the older Palm PIMs instead?

[mcapehart]

Curious, Agendus 10.x is also geared for tr600 users as well right? So everything the tr650 does except in low-res, w/o BT, and compatible with the older Palm PIMs instead? Yes. The Treo 600 will do exactly as you've stated.

[madmaxmedia]

I don't see why other people got so worked up about OP's post. This is a PDA user board, people post their experience with their PDA's. He listed exactly what steps caused what bugs, and has been pretty even in his comments.

If you've had better experiences with Agendus, then post your own instead of just criticizing OP. Then other people can read all the comments, and then draw their own conclusions.

[blues]

I don't see why other people got so worked up about OP's post. This is a PDA user board, people post their experience with their PDA's. He listed exactly what steps caused what bugs, and has been pretty even in his comments.

If you've had better experiences with Agendus, then post your own instead of just criticizing OP. Then other people can read all the comments, and then draw their own conclusions.
Alot of people disagreed with the op's comments because they were exaggerated. Why not have that debate?

[squeff]

Alot of people disagreed with the op's comments because they were exaggerated. Why not have that debate?

If you feel that I exaggerated something, please be specific about what is exaggerated so that I can either provide the source of my statement or apoligize. Without specifics, I cannot possible give a fair explanation for my comments.

[blues]

I already did that in post #8.

This has already been said, but Iambic chooses to be on the bleeding edge, rather than to be rock solid. They do that because that's what their customer's want. So why post a review ranting about how unstable their software is? They already knew about the few bugs you talked about, and the rest was just ranting. Some people like to listen to that, but I just didn't think it was helpfull.

Let's wait and see. But I doubt Iambic will change their ways and release updates that are more consistantly stable, and therefore less frequent. Their customers don't want that. I know I don't.

[squeff]

I already did that in post #8.

I just re-read post #8. You did not cite places where I exagerated.

This has already been said, but Iambic chooses to be on the bleeding edge, rather than to be rock solid. They do that because that's what their customer's want. So why post a review ranting about how unstable their software is?

You do know what a review is, yes? It's when you give your opinion about a product or company to let people, who care to know, about a person's experience.

The fact that YOU have already formed an opinion (which seems to comport with mine, by the way -- see below) doesn't mean that everyone has.

If you personally don't care about someone else's opinion, which seems to be what you're saying, then please just skip over the thread. There is no utility in you posting, unless you want to give YOUR experience. You are welcome to do so, if you wish.

Much has been said about people's agendas. What is yours? Why have you chosen to post here? Since you clearly don't care for people sharing their experiences, why would you even bother to give yours?

They already knew about the few bugs you talked about, and the rest was just ranting. Some people like to listen to that, but I just didn't think it was helpfull.

And, as I followed up, none of them were fully addressed in the 10.02 release, either. The only one that was addressed, although not fully, was the performance one.

Imabic chose not to fix reported bugs. That is their right and was clearly a decision to satisfy certain customers. It didn't work for me, so I got a refund. It think it's perfectly reasonable to let others know that there are reported bugs which have not been addressed nor is there any statement about IF (not when) they ever will be.

Let's wait and see. But I doubt Iambic will change their ways and release updates that are more consistantly stable, and therefore less frequent. Their customers don't want that. I know I don't.

If you don't think that their products are consistently stable, when in the world would you waste your time defending them? Your comments, although much briefer than mine, say the same thing: that Iambic has historically produced poor quality products in order to come out with new features. You see, Blues, we agree. The place we disagree is that you LIKE unstable products. I do not.

I'll say it again: If you're intested in Agendus, then please download the trial and test it. If it works for you, then buy it. If not, then don't. Just don't expect that if you buy it that it will magically get better. I've seen enough postings by other people to know that I'm not alone.

[ackmondual]

I already did that in post #8.

This has already been said, but Iambic chooses to be on the bleeding edge, rather than to be rock solid. They do that because that's what their customer's want. So why post a review ranting about how unstable their software is? They already knew about the few bugs you talked about, and the rest was just ranting. Some people like to listen to that, but I just didn't think it was helpfull.

Let's wait and see. But I doubt Iambic will change their ways and release updates that are more consistantly stable, and therefore less frequent. Their customers don't want that. I know I don't.

I'd have to disagree with that. In general, if something is bleeding edge but not stable, that can more problematic than being stable, but having lack of features.

However, "YMMV" certainly applies here. Some find Agen to be stable enough, others note as stable as they wished but still use it anyways, and the final group who would like to use Agen but won't due to the stability and reliability. The last group would certainly be counter examples to this. They like the quick linking, tabbed contacts (a couple of users would buy that alone if they could), crisp graphics/icons, and direct tr6xx features among other features, but it just isn't useable AFA they're concerned until more fixes are made.

[SoS]

I absolutely agree with ack....I have 9.06 on the LD and it is basically great. There are some things that dont really work so I dont use them, but it is basically rock stable. With my TT I may have risked 10.x but it really seems too buggy for the LD with its 90s reset. I know I have said elsewhere that I wont be supporting Iambic any more...well, perhaps a little hasty after a bad day at work. But to date, this version hasnt tempted me and it may not in the future. Nonetheless, I maintain that Iambic do carry bugs from one version to the other but they are not alone in that (although it is, thankfully, rare). I have had a lot of fun beta-testing in the past (and a lot of painful experiences) so I understand that many want new features yesterday and to hell with the consequences. Just not for me at the moment - maybe I'm getting old or something...now, where did I put my slippers?? ;)

[blues]

Since you clearly don't care for people sharing their experiences, why would you even bother to give yours?My agenda, you ask? The whole reason why I joined this board is to find out what others think about the Palm community. To read news, and opinions. To learn something. Can you imagine a forum where you can only post in those threads in which you agreed with the op? There wouldn't be much interesting said.

And, as I followed up, none of them were fully addressed in the 10.02 release, either. The only one that was addressed, although not fully, was the performance one. Have you seen the bugs that were fixed in 10.02?
http://iambic.com/agenduspro/palmos/whatsnew.asp#10.02

Also Moosman said something worth mentioning on another thread (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=866188&postcount=11). It might not be entirely true, but it's worth discussion.

If you don't think that their products are consistently stable, when in the world would you waste your time defending them? Your comments, although much briefer than mine, say the same thing: that Iambic has historically produced poor quality products in order to come out with new features. You see, Blues, we agree. The place we disagree is that you LIKE unstable products. I do not. lol, I like unstable products. that's good.
I never said that they produce poor quality products. They release a new update as soon as they can, but not untill it is stable enough. If they waited to release their products until every single bug was fixed, it would never get released.

Just don't expect that if you buy it that it will magically get better. I've seen enough postings by other people to know that I'm not alone. Each beta release was better then the one before. And 10.02 is better than 10.01. It's continually being improved. I don't know this because I read what other people have said. I actually used a number of their betas, and experienced that 10.02 is better than 10.01.

[squeff]

My agenda, you ask? The whole reason why I joined this board is to find out what others think about the Palm community. To read news, and opinions. To learn something. Can you imagine a forum where you can only post in those threads in which you agreed with the op? There wouldn't be much interesting said.

Right. But you seem to be objecting to my posting anything negative. Go ahead and disagree. But when you do so, show where I'm factually wrong. I asked you to do this (show where I exagerated), but you didn't. Could you please tell me where I made a factual error?

Have you seen the bugs that were fixed in 10.02?

As I said, kudos to them for fixing so many of them.

Also Moosman said something worth mentioning on another thread (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=866188&postcount=11). It might not be entirely true, but it's worth discussion.

See my response there.

lol, I like unstable products. that's good. I never said that they produce poor quality products.

You said "But I doubt Iambic will change their ways and release updates that are more consistantly stable, and therefore less frequent. Their customers don't want that. I know I don't."

I read this as "I prefer more frequent [major release] updates to stability."

[vregan]

Each beta release was better then the one before. And 10.02 is better than 10.01.Maybe for you, but not for all (nor, possibly, even a majority) of users. My experience is different than yours. 10.02 is worse than 9.06--so I paid money for a product that went backward in functionality--and I am not alone by a long shot.

[Zano2004]

So here are some things we can all do to help make things better for all:

1) Let those less effected have the code early.
2) Be helpful by contributing to solving problems on the developer's forums. It's sometimes appropriate to be upset and to vocalize it, but it NEVER helps to berate and rant, either directly to the developer, or in public forums such as 1src.
3) Patiently revert to previous build when confronted by an intolerable bug for your device. By all means let the developer know about your issue though.
4) Realize and accept that what is or isn't tolerable for you may result in a different experience for someone else. Respect that! ;)
You show great wisdom.

[hherbzilla]

FYI, I've been updating my comparison of DateBk and Agendus (http://tech.hernandez5.net/html/datebook_wars.html) to reflect the two most recent versions. I'd appreciate any suggestions or constructive comments. Although I'm still a DB fan, it's my intention to have the comparison be fair and balanced. Thanks!

[ackmondual]

good to know that's being updated and still in the works. Now if only some can update the Office Suite Wars (http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/palmpilot/officesuites/).

[tgeorges]

FYI, I've been updating my comparison of DateBk and Agendus (http://tech.hernandez5.net/html/datebook_wars.html) to reflect the two most recent versions. I'd appreciate any suggestions or constructive comments. Although I'm still a DB fan, it's my intention to have the comparison be fair and balanced. Thanks!

Awesome comparison site, hherbzilla. I, too, am a DateBk6 user, although I try Agendus every release just to see if it's worth the switch. So far, it hasn't been.

One item that I've always found lacking in Agendus that DateBk always has had: the ability to specify a text foreground and background color with an event category. Agendus only allows the assignment of a background color. Once an event is created in Agendus, you can then change the foreground text color, but I want to see all the events for a particular category, by default, have a certain text forground color. I use background color sparingly, whilst Agendus basically forces it if you want to use colors at all.


-Tom

[Laci_Elements]

Well you all almost scared me off of trying Agendus lol ;) , from the bug reports to the bad client support reports. I am coming in on version 10.04 and my experience couldn't be any different . The program is just what I have been hunting and searching for . The support has been great. I think the debate between Agendus and other programs really boils down to what works for you. I guess what I am saying is I don't think there is any one right program , just the one that is right for you.

[Moose Man]

Awesome comparison site, hherbzilla. I, too, am a DateBk6 user, although I try Agendus every release just to see if it's worth the switch. So far, it hasn't been.

One item that I've always found lacking in Agendus that DateBk always has had: the ability to specify a text foreground and background color with an event category. Agendus only allows the assignment of a background color. Once an event is created in Agendus, you can then change the foreground text color, but I want to see all the events for a particular category, by default, have a certain text forground color. I use background color sparingly, whilst Agendus basically forces it if you want to use colors at all.


-Tom


Have you tried using the Vivid Agenda feature which will probably do what your asking? It's an extremely poweful feature that is all too often overlooked.

[hherbzilla]

Exactly... Precisely why it's so important for people to give the programs a thorough evaluation of their own.
... I think the debate between Agendus and other programs really boils down to what works for you. I guess what I am saying is I don't think there is any one right program , just the one that is right for you.

[squeff]

Exactly... Precisely why it's so important for people to give the programs a thorough evaluation of their own.

Since I was the one that started this thread...

In the many months since I first posted, I've (true to my word) continued to give Agendus an evaluation. With each minor release, I've tried it to see if the bugs had been fixed. I've also paid very close attention to the level of supported provided both by the unpaid "mods" and by Iambic staff. And, of course, I've tried using the product in my day-to-day life to see if it really works for me.

Now that 10.04 is out, I (believe it or not) have purchased Agendus Pro and have stopped using DateBk5. Why? Because I like the way it works (although no product is perfect) for ME. I always felt that, even from my first evaluation of 10.0.

What I didn't like were the bugs in 10.0, 10.01, 10.02, and 10.03. I still have a few problems, but I have been led to believe that Iambic DOES care and WILL fix these problems before the 10.x series ends. Specifically, my two problems are startup performance and OTA crashes.

In this time, I have also found that certain mods are excellent. Especially when they work with you one-on-one. While I still have these 2 issues remaining, I've received a lot of good help in attempting to track down these issues from one (unpaid!) mod.

I still think Iambic is understaffed. I still think that because of this, the professional employees are unable to give enough attention to helping users. I also think that this short-staffed nature causes bad communication -- employees can sometimes come off as arrogrant. This is understandable, since they are clearly overworked and do not have the right tools/management support.

What does all of this mean? If you wait until the 3rd or 4th release of Agendus, it's going to be solid enough for day-to-day use for most users. For some, it will still have problems. For others, an earlier release might work.

For users without weird problems, the Iambic forums are great. They allow you to get answers to simple questions... although they are not well suited to dealing with getting bugs fixed. In particular, because the mods don't have access to tools or have the knowledge to track down problems. Most of what they do is ask questions, guess at possible solutions, and then log the issue. From there, the user is cut-off forver from working with someone on resolving bugs or dealing with issues.

I think of it this way. The Iambic forums are like 1SRC. You can post "I'm having this problem" and users might help. However, if your problem is configuration-specific, or a bug in the software, ain't no one going to help you.

As long as you understand this and as long as you don't have major problems, Iambic produces good software.

As a paid user, I hope that their management does consider how to do better in terms of resolving bugs and communicating to users. They could be a very good company and I see their potential for having some very nice software. Until then, I still feel that the best advice is:

(1) Download the software.

(2) Backup your device.

(3) Try it. For a few weeks, at least. Hit it hard.

(4) If it works for you, great! Be careful about installing new releases, since sometimes things that worked get broken. Go back to step 1.

(5) If not, post your issues on the forum, but do not expect an answer.

(6) Wait until the next release comes out. Try it again until you have a releases that works for you.

If you need to keep getting demo licenses for each minor release, do it. Unless you want to pay the money in hopes that the software will work, don't spend the money until you think it's worth it. You might even want to write to Iambic and just ask them to extend your demo license, if the version you have doesn't work you and you're going to wait.

Lastly, evaluate several products and find the one that works for you. For some, it's Agendus. For others it's DateBk5/6. For some, the built-in apps might be fine. For others, it might be something else (like Beyond Contacts).

[ackmondual]

What I didn't like were the bugs in 10.0, 10.01, 10.02, and 10.03. I still have a few problems, but I have been led to believe that Iambic DOES care and WILL fix these problems before the 10.x series ends. Specifically, my two problems are startup performance and OTA crashes.

What's OTA?

[squeff]

What's OTA?

Over The Air. It's the ability to connect to the Internet for certain purposes. In my case, when you set the device to automatically download weather, quote of the day, or history on a schedule, it casues a hard crash. Due to the nature of the crash, data can be lost. I'm careful now when I re-test in new versions, but the first tests actually caused me to have to recover from backup.

OTA is used, as far as I know for: weather, history, quote of the day, registration, downloading updates, bringing up maps, and maybe one or two other things. Manually, they work for me. But when it's automated, I get crashes. And these crashes only occur in AGP is running when the device wakes. If something else is running, no crash.

Specifically, when the device wakes, I get "Connecting" but my TH55's WLAN light doesn't light up to show me it's trying to connect. Then, eventually, it times out. Then, the WLAN light comes on and I get a hard crash.

Anyone have any ideas about why this would be?