1SRC Podcast Forty

[Jeff Kirvin]

In the big four-oh 1SRC Podast, I have a debate with Brighthand Editor-in-Chief Ed Hardy. We cover smartphones vs two-body solutions, Palm Linux vs Garnet for new Palms, the ever-more-likely Windows Mobile Treo and the future of both Palm OS and Windows Mobile. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1216)]

[Alan G]

Ah the Jeff Kirvin v. Ed Hardy grudge match...can't wait to listen to this one later this morning!

Alan G

[Alan G]

I just finished listening to podcast 40 and having done podcasts with Jeff before, I can saw that I really enjoyed hearing Ed debate the issues with Jeff. It was a very cool podcast. Both Ed and Jeff make some very good points. (I still don't want to believe that Palm will release a WM Treo, but I realize the business potential there.)

To sum up: Very cool podcast. Ed, don't worry about rambling - all the Palm podcasters do it. I don't want a WM Treo, however Palm will probably do it just to make a pile of cash appear at their front door.

Alan G

[jomo]

While I respect you, Jeff, I have to say I completely disagree on the whole "Convergence" idea. I want a phone to be a phone, and I want a computer to be a computer. Anything that attempts to do both is, by necessity, a compromise. A phone with a huge touch-screen doesn't work very well and a PDA with a tiny screen doesn't work very well either. And, for the record, I don't carry chargers with me at all when I go out, so that's not even an issue for me. My ideal setup - a very flat but relatively wide phone that feels good in the hand (no frills at all, just a phone) and a device with the largest screen that will easily fit in my pocket. My Life Drive has bluetooth, but I don't really have a lot of use for it. I have to agree with Ed. Remote file access has been promised for years and even in the wired corporate space has never really fulfilled all the promises. There's nothing like having my data on hand (no pun intended) when I need it.

[madmaxmedia]

There will always be separate, optimized devices available for those who want it, but the 'cell phone' is emerging as the next dominant computing platform, after the desktop PC and the notebook computer.

By cell phone form factor I mean a pocketable device that is primarily geared towards voice calls, but does much more. However, I think the devices 5 years from now will be far more versatile in UI, more akin to the PDA's of today. By then, the more feature-packed cell phones should have multi-gigabytes of built-in memory, GHz PCU's, higher-density displays, good 5 MP cameras for stills and video, and unlimited wireless broadband to transfer all this data in and out.

[Jimmie Geddes]

Jeff,looking forward to listening to your podcast on my new iPod nano, you're my first:) in a non-gay way,lol. I am looking forward to your debate. I haven't heard anything from Tyler about his bt project, do you know how it's going?

[Jeff Kirvin]

I haven't heard anything either.

[Vampire Lestat]

Ed, I love your site and your editorials, but if you plan on hosting a podcast you really got to speed it up and liven things up.

Jeff, you are a very entertaining podcaster. Keep it up, you are on to something good.

[WildCelt]

OK, I can't take it anymore. I have enjoyed listening to the 1src podcasts (at least until the last several Treo-centric ones) for a long time, but one thing has always bugged me--the sound quality. Podcast forty in particular , because it was so highly compressed, sounded like I was playing it back on an Edison cylinder rather than my handheld. Most people have hella bandwidth now, so I think cranking up the bitrate is not going to hurt anyone. And even for those of us still in dial up hell (/me raises my hand), it still doesn't take that long to pull one down with higher bitrates.

I am not expecting studio quality (like the This Week in Tech podcast), but it would be nice to be "listenable." Especially when Ed was talking in this one, the compression artifacts were so distracting I couldn't even hear the incessant rambling about the "precious Treo." (Yes, I am a T3 user, and no, I'm not a zealot...well, not that much of one ;)).

Perhaps some normalizing would also help. There are times when it is so soft I cannot hear what is being said, and as soon as I crank it, someone laughs or moves the mic and blows me away.

Thanks!

[strider_mt2k]

Possibly the best 1SRC Podcast I've ever heard. (Sound issues not withstanding.)

I've been a 1SRC podcast listener from ep1, and I've respected Ed Hardy from his days at PIC and for his great work over at Brighthand, so this 'cast was of particular interest.
(Extra points awarded for Simpsons on a Clie and monkey knife-fight ref!!)

I agree that watching TV shows and movies is going to be dependent upon where and when you can watch them. It won't be a priority for everyone.

In therory at least, couldn't a POS emulator be used on a WM Treo to run PalmOS applications? Perhaps helping .net integration?

It does look great for Palm to offer choices within their lineup!
I mean we've all been speculating, but nowadays we hang the name "Palm" in front of names like "Linux" and "Windows"?

That's just an awesome job of positioning if you ask me!

Palm just needs to settle down with the corporate squaredance and make these devices happen, and hopefully happen well.

I, for one, will welcome our new handheld overlords.

[Jeff Kirvin]

OK, I can't take it anymore. I have enjoyed listening to the 1src podcasts (at least until the last several Treo-centric ones) for a long time, but one thing has always bugged me--the sound quality. Podcast forty in particular , because it was so highly compressed, sounded like I was playing it back on an Edison cylinder rather than my handheld. Most people have hella bandwidth now, so I think cranking up the bitrate is not going to hurt anyone. And even for those of us still in dial up hell (/me raises my hand), it still doesn't take that long to pull one down with higher bitrates.

I am not expecting studio quality (like the This Week in Tech podcast), but it would be nice to be "listenable." Especially when Ed was talking in this one, the compression artifacts were so distracting I couldn't even hear the incessant rambling about the "precious Treo." (Yes, I am a T3 user, and no, I'm not a zealot...well, not that much of one ;)).

Perhaps some normalizing would also help. There are times when it is so soft I cannot hear what is being said, and as soon as I crank it, someone laughs or moves the mic and blows me away.

Thanks!
Yeah, we had some audio problems with this one. Ed's mic wasn't all that great and Gizmo has problems of it's own. I might go back to TeamSpeak for future guest episodes.

[JAm@school]

Yeah, we had some audio problems with this one. Ed's mic wasn't all that great and Gizmo has problems of it's own. I might go back to TeamSpeak for future guest episodes.

ACCESS just acquired PalmSource. Does this mean the end of PalmSource for sure?? ACCESS has been known in the past to create apps for PocketPC and Symbian and NOT Palm except through Sony's devices. Will this mean a new world of Web Browsing of Palm? Will ACCESS continue to develop software for other OSes.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

I do like NetFront better than Blazer...
And LOOK at Palm Source stock
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ecn?s=psrc

[dragonsgames]

BTW, JA, do you have a HotSpot at your school, or something?

[EdFrmBrighthand]

Ed, I love your site and your editorials, but if you plan on hosting a podcast you really got to speed it up and liven things up.
I don't plan to do a podcast, because, as you said, I'm not a very good speaker. Jeff does a much better job than I ever could. Maybe I'll just come on occasionally and argue with him. :)

[Dick Tracy]

Ed, thanks for making a guest appearance. It was a pleasure to put your voice to your editorials. Do drop by for debate when you think it's appropriate. Diversity of opinons and styles is what keeps a variety of product available for handheld/smartphone users.

[JAmerican]

BTW, JA, do you have a HotSpot at your school, or something?

Na, school PC but I hate logining in because I had a bad experience. Someone went to 1src, saw me logged in, and posted SPAM. So never again unless necessary.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

I am sure going to 1src is SPAM :p

[JAmerican]

I don't plan to do a podcast, because, as you said, I'm not a very good speaker. Jeff does a much better job than I ever could. Maybe I'll just come on occasionally and argue with him. :)

Ed, I have T-Mobile as well. $10 Unlimited T-Zones Pro. The cheapest I could find. I agree with your two-device philosophy. I used to want to have two devices for the upgrade reason. Now that the HTC Universal is out and that I want that. I feel that I'm gonna give up my two devices for the one. Since the HTC Universal is better than my UX in all aspects, its a great upgrade. I didn't like the Treo 650 due to smaller screen and keyboard. As you can see from my history, when I upgraded to another device, it was due to the next device had an advantage over the previous device. My Treo 90's screen backlight died like in a week so I returned it. Then got a Sidekick later.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

Why would anyone want to down-grade, anyway :p

[JAmerican]

Why would anyone want to down-grade, anyway :p

That's why I didn't get a Treo 650 ;)

BTW, I placed Office Space on my UX50 :)

Mmm...mmm...Mi Red Stapla...

Windows Treo. I knew it. I've been saying, if you expect a Windows Vista Treo, you should expect a Windows Mobile Treo.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

I placed Office Space on my UX50
Do you have the same dream? I know most of us do ;)

[JAmerican]

VB.NET!!!!!!!!!!!!! on Palm would change my view of Palm OS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would love this. This would be my DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't beat them, join them!

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

Guess that is not a dream of nothing... :)

[smoothjordan]

Great podcast, but where was my shout out? LOL, anyways, Treo rocks like a red stapler :) I got office space on both the treo and psp... Good stuff. **Off to play bejewelled 1, so much better than 2 **

[JAmerican]

Difference between 320x320 Office Space and 480x320 Office Space.

Since the Treo's screen is about the same size to a UX screen with the graffiti open, I took two pics...

UX Full
http://jamerican.net/1src/UX50/TreovsUX/UX-OfficeSpace.jpg

UX w/ Graffiti (Treo screen)
http://jamerican.net/1src/UX50/TreovsUX/UX-Treo-OfficeSpace.jpg


JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

He has it on PSP screen too, 480x240?

[JAmerican]

He has it on PSP screen too, 480x240?

its 480x272. Ok. Great. Don't see why you would need it on both but OK. Also, I'm comparing them to show why I didn't get a Treo 650. My bro has a PSP and had it on there too.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

My dad always talks about how he likes a Phone-PDA, but I would rather have a Media-PDA.

[JAmerican]

My dad always talks about how he likes a Phone-PDA, but I would rather have a Media-PDA.

If I had to choose, me too. But if I could have them all, like the HTC Universal, I'd get that as well :) No matter the OS. The only thing I look for in an OS is that it has a lot of third-party software (freeware/shareware). Currently both Windows Mobile and Palm OS have this so.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

HTC Universal. Hope it comes to Sprint :D
(I have my fingers crossed, as if it would do anything :))

[JAmerican]

HTC Universal. Hope it comes to Sprint :D
(I have my fingers crossed, as if it would do anything :))

I don't care about EDGE or WCDMA, if its available cool but if not oh well. No big lose. I haven't used any of these so its not a downgrade at all.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

But I have Sprint, and can't switch (stupid contract :mad:). Two phone bills, maybe? :D

[JAmerican]

But I have Sprint, and can't switch (stupid contract :mad:). Two phone bills, maybe? :D

Oh. Do you have a two-year contract?? Also, one thing I like about T-Mobile is their lack of a two-year contract. No one would keep the same technology for two years. Some might. But not a lot of people. Thats where companies get their money for the early termination fee.

JAmerican

[smoothjordan]

Difference between 320x320 Office Space and 480x320 Office Space.

Since the Treo's screen is about the same size to a UX screen with the graffiti open, I took two pics...


JAmerican

What are you trying to prove? That your UX is somehow better than a Treo? Lay off man, jealousy isn't a good thing...

[dragonsgames]

He just likes big screens, and so do I :D

[smoothjordan]

He just likes big screens, and so do I :D
Oh I do too, but in every podcast jeff has talked about the treo, JAmerican always has to point out it's faults but praises the discontinued UX so much. JAmerican is a good guy, but jealousy is getting to him

[Robyr]

Its not jealousy. If you have not owned a UX you wouldnt understand. I too didnt understand it, but now that i have my UX 50, i could never go back to a non-clamshell device. And 320x320? Never! the UX really is the best device that has ever run Palm OS. The HTC Universal..... drool. Wake me up when its not a cell phone though, i hate cell providers, and phones in general.

[depret]

Point and counter pointer, JAmerican uses "I" instead of "you or you all should" so he is just offering another perspective. More to the point of using a single device versus two devices (Jeff and Ed podcast topic) both the HTC and Treo are the devices (Jeff) that need to be compared to the two device solution (Ed). Whether the HTC or the Treo should be considered the "Perfect Writer PDA/Smartphone device" is covered in another thread.

Great palm/podcast as usual and I liked how Jeff and Ed discussed the different topics. Ed, please come back soon for another cast. Maybe just after you have release a review of a new palm device would be good for discussion topics. Jeff would surely find points on which to disagree/agree and expand on future possible plans that a new high end device might mean to the market.

[JAmerican]

Point and counter pointer, JAmerican uses "I" instead of "you or you all should" so he is just offering another perspective. More to the point of using a single device versus two devices (Jeff and Ed podcast topic) both the HTC and Treo are the devices (Jeff) that need to be compared to the two device solution (Ed). Whether the HTC or the Treo should be considered the "Perfect Writer PDA/Smartphone device" is covered in another thread.

Thank you. Also thank Robyr and dragonsgames. I'm just offering my perspective. If the Treo is discussed, I will bring up the HTC Universal again because there are new people that might read this and not read my other posts about the HTC Universal. Also, the Treo is repetitivly brought up in the podcasts and you don't see me saying anything against it. I actually praised Jeff for doing so because I now have KMaps on my UX. Really, when you get a new device or see a new device, you won't stop talking about it. Since Palm doesn't want to ask HTC to make a device that can match the HTC Universal, I'm going to get the HTC Universal. If discussions come up about the best writer's PDA or anything about the best smartphone, I will join in and say the HTC Universal. I'm not jealous of the Treo. Why would I be?? I mean the HTC Universal has BT v1.2, WiFi that doesn't interrupt the Phone Network, BIG 640x480 res screen, large keyboard, Int. Media of 128MB, 64 MB of RAM, Improved Office, new version of WM, 1.3MP camera. Amazing device. Beats the Treo in all aspects. It also is just a little larger than the treo my 1.73'' WoW!!!! Don't forget the 1630mah battery :)

JAmerican

[depret]

JAmerican, I think the HTC has two camera. How she performs is another story but I look forward to your comments on the device considering you love the form factor so much.

I agree, having Jeff and others "trick out" their Treo to drive others to do the same thing with their device (e.g. KMap), we all benefit as a community of PDA lovers. We start to see what each of our devices can and can not do.

We just have to try and understand how others may misunderstand our perspective and tone. Very difficult to do with words.

Have a great weekend.

[smoothjordan]

Beats the Treo in all aspects. It also is just a little larger than the treo my 1.73'' WoW!!!! Don't forget the 1630mah battery :)

JAmerican

On paper, yes, but in reality, we shall see. It probably won't be better than the treo, and even if it is it will be out of peoples price range, I see this device reaching at least 699, I won't pay that much for a pocket pc, palm, or anything. It will have to be a laptop. Like I said, lay off on the "Treo isn't as good as the UX or the HTC universal" because in reality your UX isn't. I don't have to buy an application to use mine in portrait, do you? I don't have to charge mine after using the internet for more than 2 hours, do you? Treo is still in production and is selling well, where is Sony and the UX? How much was your UX versus the treo? I paid 299 for my treo, where the ux was much much more expensive. If you want to compare devices, let's do so. I can counter anything you say, as you can do the same with me. I'm looking forward to the chat tonight :)

[JAmerican]

On paper, yes, but in reality, we shall see. It probably won't be better than the treo, and even if it is it will be out of peoples price range, I see this device reaching at least 699, I won't pay that much for a pocket pc, palm, or anything. It will have to be a laptop. Like I said, lay off on the "Treo isn't as good as the UX or the HTC universal" because in reality your UX isn't. I don't have to buy an application to use mine in portrait, do you? I don't have to charge mine after using the internet for more than 2 hours, do you? Treo is still in production and is selling well, where is Sony and the UX? How much was your UX versus the treo? I paid 299 for my treo, where the ux was much much more expensive. If you want to compare devices, let's do so. I can counter anything you say, as you can do the same with me. I'm looking forward to the chat tonight :)

Yes it is expensive because of all the features it has. Will I buy it now, no I will wait for the price to go down. Umm, I don't use Portrait. It is unstable and plus Landscape is way better than portrait. BTW, I can use my device in both 320x320 and 480x320 modes unlike you. As for battery life, I do agree that the UX battery is bad, thats why its thinner than your device way more than the HTC Universal is larger.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

Do you have a EB40 JA? How is battery life with it?

[smoothjordan]

Yes it is expensive because of all the features it has. Will I buy it now, no I will wait for the price to go down. Umm, I don't use Portrait. It is unstable and plus Landscape is way better than portrait. BTW, I can use my device in both 320x320 and 480x320 modes unlike you. As for battery life, I do agree that the UX battery is bad, thats why its thinner than your device way more than the HTC Universal is larger.

JAmerican

It WAS expensive because of it's features, which the zire 72 has, minus wifi, but it does have better battery life. Umm... portrait is where it's at. Using the UX must have fried your brain, I never use landscape on my t5 except when watching a flic, which is much better on the giant screen my PSP has versus the discontinued UX. battery life is a key factor, why have all these so called features when you can only use it for 30 minutes?

[quasar]

I have to agree with JAmerican. I have a Zodiac, and can use it in portrait mode with any 3rd party application, and several inbuilt apps, but I almost always use it in landscape. Devices designed for landscape mode usually work better that way.

While there is no perfect handheld, I think it would be a toss-up for me between the UX-50 and the Treo 650. They both have advantages and disadvantages, and you simply have to decide which benifits you care more about and which device better fits your lifestyle. No device is right for everyone.

Just a thought, but what if the HTC Universal came to Palm? Palm uses HTC for the treos, and POS Cobalt and POS Linux support the VGA screen. Could it happen?

[JAmerican]

I have to agree with JAmerican. I have a Zodiac, and can use it in portrait mode with any 3rd party application, and several inbuilt apps, but I almost always use it in landscape. Devices designed for landscape mode usually work better that way.

While there is no perfect handheld, I think it would be a toss-up for me between the UX-50 and the Treo 650. They both have advantages and disadvantages, and you simply have to decide which benifits you care more about and which device better fits your lifestyle. No device is right for everyone.

Just a thought, but what if the HTC Universal came to Palm? Palm uses HTC for the treos, and POS Cobalt and POS Linux support the VGA screen. Could it happen?

If it did, I would stay.

Smoothjordan, so you do use landscape. I never use Portrait. I used to but the hack was a little buggy. I've reported it to MobileStream and didn't get back to me. I'm actually quite happy with landscape. I can view a clip then go back to my regular usage without having to go back to the default which for you is portrait. I also can use my device in 480x320 when inputing data. As quasar said, we both picked devices that suite us so lets just leave it at that.

dragonsgames, I had an EB40 but I broke it when I was doing a mod.

JAmerican

[Jeff Kirvin]

Windows Treo. I knew it. I've been saying, if you expect a Windows Vista Treo, you should expect a Windows Mobile Treo.
And I keep trying to explain to you that just about all Windows Mobile and Windows Vista have in common is the word "Windows" in their names. They are completely and totally different things.

You're a developer, right? How much to Java and JavaScript really have in common?

[dragonsgames]

They both have the word "Java" in their name :p
Anyway, Jeff is right. Very right :D

[icarus]

PalmOS vs WinMob re .NET

Hi Jeff

1st: Gratulation to the 40th podcast. Is actually a very good one. BTW: Hey stop interrupting your guests, it might be interesting to hear what they want to say. ;-)
Beside that: Yes, it was a great podcast.

Re .NET
M$ might not be required. There is an open source project MONO bringing (actually already brought) .NET functionality to Linux.

See => http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

So PalmOS on Linux (and MONO) might just be what is required to access .NET. Looking forward to it.

Regards from Switzerland,

[JAmerican]

And I keep trying to explain to you that just about all Windows Mobile and Windows Vista have in common is the word "Windows" in their names. They are completely and totally different things.

You're a developer, right? How much to Java and JavaScript really have in common?

You don't get what I'm saying. I am not referringto the actual products. I'm referring to the company creating the OSes. I was not saying that if you expect the actual Windows Vista product on a Treo then you should expect to see a Windows Mobile product on a Treo. I said this because they are both Windows and both Microsoft. A lot of people, including you said that if Palm considers Windows Mobile OS on their device, they will get a lot of money in a small amount of time then decline horribly. Why does this change with Vista. Microsoft still owns Vista. Microsoft can drop Palm as fast as it can from Vista as it can from Mobile so whats the difference. I'm not comparing products, I'm telling you that both ways, Palm becomes Microsoft's puppet. Understand???

To recap. I am not comparing OSes, I am looking at the company who creates both OSes.

JAmerican

[dragonsgames]

Ahh, ok. Makes sense now :)

[JAmerican]

Ahh, ok. Makes sense now :)

Thank you. Finally someone understands.

JAmerican

[ptc]

Great content on this podcast. Cool to finally attach a voice to Ed. Been reading his stuff for years on Brighthand and Palminfocenter. Ed, that site nose-dived after you left.

Sound quality could be improved. Just listened to 41 and it sounded much better...