Member Banning - Please Help.

[Reggie]

I would just like to remind everyone with regards to the forum rules (link (http://www.1src.com/forums/faq.php?faq=site_rules_faq#faq_forum_rules_faq)). These rules have been in existence even when 1SRC was still ClieSource.

I am creating this thread since recently, after giving several warnings, we have banned a member from the forums. While we ban all the IPs that this member uses, to make sure that we restrict access to the forums which ever username he uses, this member is smart enough to work behind different proxies so as to change his IP address. Because of this, we have installed several counter measures so we can view his actual IP behind proxies. This has worked for quite some time.

Lately, he is back with new IP addresses, newly leased from his DSL provider as well as probably a from a new location that he has access to. We have just added these new IPs to the ban list but we are sure that he will be back again soon.

We are then asking help from all the members to report any new posts that you suspect is made by this member, so we can keep on adding his new IPs to the ban list. We also encourage to not reply to his posts since we will be deleting them anyway.

He has several usernames. Most start with "Surur" (eg. Surur, Surur1) or "SR" (eg. SR7). Another username he receltly used is "unregisterd".

This member has caused us a lot of work to police the forums. We hope that you could all help out.

If you have other suggestions to block this user, let us know.

Thank you.

[unregisterd]

You have not said what rules I violated. This might be useful information to one who wants to avoid being banned?

[E Ben G]

Ok, here's a suggestion. Don't censor people for disagreeing with your editorials.

[Tam Hanna]

I am very against the whole IP table ban thingy. This just blocks out other users as well(collateral damage).

Generally, I beleive: reggie, you are overescalating it. Up to now, we always had no problems with the moderation! If he bickers, edit his post. If he bickers more, ban. By opeining up a single post about him, we just feed the troll. Nexave did just that with their former local troll Dr. Kolb-and they thus made him "popular" over all german forums. It took them a long time to get rid of him.

If I were you, I woldnt make a big fuss about the goon.
Just my 2 cents!

[Reggie]

Tam,

You have no idea how hard it has been! LOL. No, really, it has just been hard for us. You know me, I am quite partial, but when push comes to shove, I would rather not take this matter on my own hands but rather share it with the community.

[strider_mt2k]

I hear ya Reggie.

You have done all you can in this case and it's fully warranted.

No foul here.

[Tam Hanna]

Well, I didnt want to say that I dont support Reggies behaviour.

Actually, I am pretty sure we will not have something as big as the Dr.Kolb dude was due to the hapyness of the average member here. Also, the culture seems different here to the board mentioned bfore.

But what I mean was that Reggie should keep that in mind: do not feed the trolls! We had problems with dudes posting random ads, we got rid of that by reporting and deleting(no public threads,...). If we made a bicker about it, I am pretty sure we'd still see them!

Just my 2 tired(working 14h) cents

[dragonsgames]

What did this guy do? Why does he keep trying to come back?

[Tam Hanna]

My main fear is the IP ban. If I am in the states, and inherit the IP of a goon by mistake-what do you beleive? I wont be able to access the forums anymore,....

[timepilot84]

I don't imagine banning would become too common. Surur was a particularly nasty fellow. I don't believe he was banned because of his opinions, rather he was banned for his inability to voice his opinions in a civil manner. I'd butted heads with him on several occasions giving him ample opportunity to disagree with me only to be called stupid, ignorant, moronic, and to be talked down to. He was here to fight and that's about it. I 'ignored' him many moons ago.

Knowing the way that most broadband ISP's work, there isn't a whole lot of risk of sharing a banned IP. My IP hasn't changed in the 3 years I've had a cable modem. It'd be more of a problem if the banned individual were using dial-up though.

[dragonsgames]

I saw soccrnj80 and surur battle it out a lot.

[jjesusfreak01]

My main fear is the IP ban. If I am in the states, and inherit the IP of a goon by mistake-what do you beleive? I wont be able to access the forums anymore,....
Have Dmitry write a program to track and ban him. A couple months ago I was posting on this site as anonymous, and he somehow knew it was me by comparing my IP address posting a guest and normally. Dont know how he did it, but I think he could think of something. Alternatively, someone could write a method for users to submit banning requests. It could ask users which of the banned users they thought was posting, and if enough of them submitted reports, the system could automatically ban the IP, or submit a report to the mods telling how many users had reported the poster. This would keep the mods from having to look through everything, but still allow them to make good decisions. Just a couple of suggestions.

I personally dont support banning unless their is "abhorrent" behavior by the user involved. I havent looked at everything Surur has written (I tend to avoid parts of a thread that dont look like they are going anywhere), but he makes Jeff mad enough that some of the stuff must be bad. Anyways, this being a website kept up under your dime, you certainly have the right to remove users who are not in the general "spirit" that users are expected to uphold.

My hope is that if Surur comes back he can contain himself enough that we dont know its him. If we dont know its him, then there is no reason to ban the IP again. If he loses it he knows he will be summarily banned.

[T-Man]

I once saw someone named 'Unregitered' in oneof my threads and Dick Tracy told me about Surur. I then asked, "Have anymore questions, 'Unregitered'?" And I havent heard from him since :)

[dragonsgames]

If you can log the IPs that vist the site, and compare...
I do that to find people who try to post a virius on my server. They can't do it anyway, though. It has top-of-the-line virius blocker.

Anyway, a IP log would be good.

[Tam Hanna]

Cookie??
That would be a no-miss way to track Surur-if he always is using one PC. Just place a cookie for every user with an unique ID, and log ID vs IP. Then, if you IP-Blocik, you also block the Cookie ID...

[jjesusfreak01]

Cookie??
That would be a no-miss way to track Surur-if he always is using one PC. Just place a cookie for every user with an unique ID, and log ID vs IP. Then, if you IP-Blocik, you also block the Cookie ID...
No, the best way would be to infect his computer with a virus which pulled a unique ID off of the system and sent it to the site, which could completely block him from using that computer on 1src again. Cookies can be deleted, not that I would support sending Surur a virus.

[reason]

You know
a) That would be illegal
b) I'm actually reading this.

Besides rejoining after being banned, I still havnt seen any evidence of what I've done wrong, but this thread has gone a long way to convincing me that people here are quite mean in any case. I'll continue listening to Jeff's podcasts, but will comment on them elsewhere.

[twrock]

You know
a) That would be illegal
b) I'm actually reading this.

Besides rejoining after being banned, I still havnt seen any evidence of what I've done wrong, but this thread has gone a long way to convincing me that people here are quite mean in any case. I'll continue listening to Jeff's podcasts, but will comment on them elsewhere.
Ya know what?
Deleting Surur's posts when they have not violated the policies of this board will do nothing more than lend credence to his point of view. If what he writes is wrong, prove it so. Otherwise, let it ride.
I still think that's true.

I'm honestly a little shocked by some of the "suggestions" listed here for how to deal with Surur. Get real people!

[twrock]

(BTW, I can't believe I'm writing this stuff. I don't even like Surur!)

I'll go back to something Tam said. Since you have apparently made your decision to maintain the ban and not back down, I think the smartest thing you can do at this point is to delete this entire thread and do your best to ban/censor/ignore him until he finally gives up on this site and leaves it alone. You may think giving people a place to "discuss" this is a good idea, but I think it will only exacerbate the "problem."

[Reggie]

As what Strider has said, we are not censoring, we are just enforcing his ban. What's the use of banning him if he can still post?

[twrock]

As what Strider has said, we are not censoring, we are just enforcing his ban. What's the use of banning him if he can still post?
What?!! Is not "banning" the ultimate form of "censoring?" You simply are having a problem enforcing your censorship. Once you decided to ban him, you inherited the problem of enforcing it. I simply don't think it was worth banning him in the first place. But hey, that was your decision. I'm now suggesting that talking about it is only adding fuel to the fire. So I suggested that you delete this whole thread and move on doing your best to enforce your ban.

[Reggie]

From an online forums standpoint, banning members is so different from censoring content.

You have to run an online community to know how difficult this issue has become. For a quite sensitive issue as this one, we just don't want to handle it ourselves. We want to community to know about it and have everyone help, thus this thread.

We have a simple set of rules. What is so difficult following them? If this community doesn't meet your expectations or if it disappoints you that it won't let you bash and attack other members, move on and find other free communities that will let you.

Take it easy.

[twrock]

From an online forums standpoint, banning members is so different from censoring content.
I will certainly take your word for that. I based my comments on the simple definitions of the words. And on that basis, I disagree that banning isn't censorship. The orignal ban was censorship and the subsequent acts of deleting his latest posts and blocking his latest IPs is also censorship. And I sincerely believe there are times for censorship; I'm not suggesting "censorship is wrong" per se.

We have a simple set of rules. What is so difficult following them? If this community doesn't meet your expectations or if it disappoints you that it won't let you bash and attack other members, move on and find other free communities that will let you.

Take it easy.
(I'll assume the "you" in the above statement was generalized; otherwise I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anyone would suggest I have violated any of the posting rules. If in your opinion I have "bashed and attacked other members", please point me to the posts.)
I agree that the posting rules are quite simple. I agree that it is not difficult to follow them. And I agree with enforcement of the established rules. Apparently the place we disagree is whether or not the rules were really violated. Maybe I missed something or it was censored before I saw it, but I don't recall anything. But I know that I'm not the one who makes that call.

Enjoy.

[Reggie]

Yes, I was making a general statement and I wasn't referring to "you."

Sorry about that.

[Cyker]

Censorship is supposed to describe a flat-out blocking of an opinion/suggestion/idea etc.

Banning usually describes blocking a disruptive/harmful node/user/whatever to stop it damaging a system.


Surur generally has a reputation for flaming and trolling, which are acts harmful to this board, and would be a good reason for banning.
Of course, his 'voice' here will also be shut off in the process, but there are plenty of other people here who have parallel opinion to his, but who can express them without flaming or trolling, so this is why banning is not the same as censorship.

(Now that thing on the <self-censored :p> forums where they mass-banned a whole bunch of people for complaining about the huge banner ads on the site, that's censorship ;))

If he calms down he'll be okay (I must say 'tho, most of the encounters I've had with Surur have been no worse than with several other members; Maybe all the flamey trolly posts got deleted before I saw them?)

Sadly, this is the price of allowing Guest posting (BTW, this is _*NOT*_ a call to remove guest posting! Guest posting is the only reason I eventually registered here and not on some other forum!)

[Jayman]

Reggie ... I think that you are doing a great job with this site ... Despite what others have said about censorship, the fact of the matter is that this is your site, you put your blood, sweat and tears into it. If you don't want to give a rule abuser access to our community than don't. I remember the long battles that we had with that Jerk, and I am very happy that he is gone. If twock doesnt like it, he or she can go as well. This site has been a wonderful part of my life for 3 years. And during those 3 years we have seen lot's of things happen, but never have you let us down Reggie .. I trust your judgement ... And you are great!!!

[dragonsgames]

Amen :) :) :)

[jhintonh]

Good Morning-

As a member who occassionally voices his opinions with some vigor, I have not had Reggie even threaten to ban me. I do not know what all of this is about, I do not recall ever reading one of this individual's posts, but if Reggie found that individual's posts to be detrimental to the forums that HE (Reggie) runs, then Reggie is certainly within his rights to censor or ban someone. We must remember that we are at someone else's house when we are here. Some of us may have donated a few dollars, but that is no different than bringing a bottle of wine with us when we visit someone's house for dinner. We may contribute, but the place is still not ours. As a result, Reggie or Joel may decide at any time, either objectively or subjectively, to ask one of us to leave, or if we do not respond to his "invitation" to leave, he may throw us out and lock the door after us (a banning).

Acceptance to his rules is part of the price of admission. This forum is not an attempt to form some sort of government or world-regulating politic...it's a website with forums, that primarily focus on leisure activities and hobbies. This decision by Reggie is being overly dramatized in my opinion. Do what you WANT to do, Reggie. We may balk at this decision, and if Reggie is feeling magnanimous, he may allow us to publically protest his decision in a thread. But if he gets aggravated with any statements or protests, I think he should be able to "censor" those too. When my local City erases or paints over graffitty painted on overpasses, they are not censoring that "artist", they are maintaining the environment and keeping it at a level that is more acceptable to the larger portion of those people who may be affected by seeing the graffitty. This analogy works okay, except this environment, these forums, are not paid for by taxes. They are not a public space. They are Reggie's space and Reggie is not voted into office here...he IS the office here.

Bottom line for me: It's Reggie's world, and we're just squirrells trying to get a nut (credit for reference to "I saw you", Orange Juice Jones, the singer, circa 1986).

-Jhintonh

[winexprt]

Good Morning-

As a member who occassionally voices his opinions with some vigor, I have not had Reggie even threaten to ban me.
NOR me. Ever.
And as you long time members know...THAT'S SAYING A LOT! :eek: :D

And before they removed the Politics & Religion and alike Off-Topic forums...as you know, I voiced my opinion(s) WAY more than occassionally. ;)



...Bottom line for me: It's Reggie's world, and we're just squirrells trying to get a nut (credit for reference to "I saw you", Orange Juice Jones, the singer, circa 1986).

-Jhintonh
LOL! I think you and I were seperated at birth Jhintonh...or at least somewhere in NYC while we were young. I used to blast that song! :eek: :D The video for that jam was pretty cool...at that time at least. hehe

[Legodude522]

Surur or sr4. That troll got banned several times at PIC. He hasn't posted much or was as agressive since the last time he was banned. But he does make a rude remark everyonce in a while. He likes to make a last statement but tehn decides to stay. I wonder if he is on any PPC forums? He constantly promote Windows mobile software. If you want to ban him go ahead. Problem almost completely taken care of at PIC. But PIC is looser than 1src.

Also I would like to say that he seemed to have matured at PIC.

[jjesusfreak01]

I keep saying, that if he ever came on to the forums again (with a different IP), and he didnt flame, and used a different name, no one would know. Its the fact that he mainly flames (not always), and so it is easy for our mods to find him...

[Legodude522]

I will have to agree ^
Lets not be overzealous here.

[shieldvideo]

I often wonder if letting ppl post when not registered. Having said that, I think that there may be times when you want to say something and don't have access to your account at that time. But still. This is one of the few forums I have been on that allowed unregistered posts, and was so specific in it's topic.

As for banning, I think you'll have a hard time as long as you do let unreg's post.

[nickms777]

I'm honestly curious what this individual did that warranted such a response. I've seen so many people make unnecessary posts because they failed to read other posts on the same page. What could someone have posted that could not have been easily ignored? Mind you I'm not really condoning what ever the offending behaviour was. However, I can't imagine what all this trouble is over.