1SRC Podcast ThirtySeven

[Jeff Kirvin]

All Treo, all the time. Should I get a Treo? Is the RAM enough? Can I play podcasts and Audible over the BT headset? Also, some cool utilities to make the Treo experience even better, why analysts don't know what they're talking about and more on this week's editorial. Plus, special guest Josh Curry of the Maximum Geek Podcast.

I am not a duck. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1193)]

[JAmerican]

That sucks that Microsoft would not license Palm when it came to VB.net. I'm a VB.net programmer and that pulls me toward Windows Mobile more and more.

BTW, here is the motherboard (http://wiki.xda-developers.com/images/chiplist-board_finished.png) of the HTC Universal :)

Seeing as this is the smartphone Podcast :)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26375

JAmerican

[iDean]

Hilarious so far :P I knew something about the editorial before Josh squeezed his man boobs" LOL

P.S Great Topic :D

[strider_mt2k]

Hmm, will Opera run on the TH55 I wonder?

EDIT

Beautiful pic, but could you scale it down a little to reformat the thread?

[Joel]

Hmm, will Opera run on the TH55 I wonder?

It won't. Or for any Clie for that matter. Java is not supported in Clies.

[JAmerican]

Kirvin, what year did you get your Windows Mobile Smartphone? My UX doesn't compare to your T5 in memory and speed because its older, could this be the case with the WM smartphone and Treo.

JAmerican

[JAmerican]

It won't. Or for any Clie for that matter. Java is not supported in Clies.

Actually monkeyboy in the UX forums found a way to do it...

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94504

JAmerican

[strider_mt2k]

It won't. Or for any Clie for that matter. Java is not supported in Clies.

A knife! A knife in my heart!

EDIT
I feel better. ;)
I read more of this rapidly updating thread, and got caught up on the Opera on Clie thing.
I think I'll stick with NF for now. :|

[Joel]

Actually monkeyboy in the UX forums found a way to do it...

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94504

JAmerican

Yeah, but soft resets after every session? No thanks. :(

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with using Netfront. I just go and visit sites optimized for mobile devices. :)

[smoothjordan]

Jeff! Get an ad from Office Max where they show that the Treo 650 is 199 through earthlink, and sprint will price match. That's what I did, just got mine on friday for 299 (i wasn't eligible for rebate, 199 is after rebate.) Good luck (Be sure to check out www.sprintusers.com my name is jshep2k5 over there, i'll help you out :) )

[iDean]

Josh sounds like Alf :P

[JAmerican]

BTW, sorry Joel about the motherboard image. Wanted to post a post quickly.

JAmerican

[intellidryad]

Yeah, but soft resets after every session? No thanks. :(

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with using Netfront. I just go and visit sites optimized for mobile devices. :)

IMHO, the great rendering of non mobile optimized sites is where Netfront truly shines. However, that ability's crippled by the limited memory of older clies until the TH55 finally came out with big RAM.

(getting the podcast now...)

[JAmerican]

Just tried out Opera On my UX and I didn't have to reset my device to use it again. But I found the Page by Page rendering kinda annoying and a lot JPEGS were not viewable upon clicking them.

JAmerican

[soccrnj80]

Joel in the forum someone claims to have opera mini running on their th55, only 320x320. I told him you would like to know how he did this, and if he could post screenshots.

[JAmerican]

Joel in the forum someone claims to have opera mini running on their th55, only 320x320. I told him you would like to know how he did this, and if he could post screenshots.

Just follow monkeyboy's steps from the link I posted above. You have to hotsync the files.

JAmerican

[JAmerican]

On to real issues, I think the The HTC Universal will show the clamshell device's full potential. Everytime a Clamshell was created, companies always made major defects.

Sharp... no wireless

Sony...poor battery/small screen

Now finally HTC has prefected the Clamshell. Large Battery, Large Screen, Multiple Wireless capabilities, the latest OS of WM, Phone, Expansion. The HTC will be much more useful than the next Treo, I can say that for a fact. If the next Treo is slate like the current one with a cramped keyboard, the Universal will dominate it.

JAmerican

[Dick Tracy]

You two are completely out of control! I haven't ever heard this much laughter in a purportedly tech-oriented cast. Great job linking all those temp files. Tell us about your new Treo at the next chat. You will have it by then.

[daver]

Hilarious so far :P I knew something about the editorial before Josh squeezed his man boobs" LOL

P.S Great Topic :DYES! I just passeed that and i'm still laughing at it!

As for the podcast, I agree entirely about the Mobile Manager line being a first generation palm tablet PC. I mean, it's got a decent processor (sure, it's not exactly 3 GHz, but it's still decently speedy), 4 GB of storage space, dual wireless connectivity, and all the other bells and whistles of other high end PDAs (minus camera). Granted, it's not the OQO or a Sony U-series, but it's still a step closer to a Star Trek data pad. Anyone else think so?

[Jeff Kirvin]

Kirvin, what year did you get your Windows Mobile Smartphone? My UX doesn't compare to your T5 in memory and speed because its older, could this be the case with the WM smartphone and Treo.

JAmerican
2003. But that's not the issue. I also owned a Pocket PC Phone Edition, and I've kept up with the current models. The Treo still blows them away in usability.

[Tibbarerew]

Josh sounds like Alf :P

Hey I haven't eaten any cats in at least 2 weeks :)

OK, so Treo owners, convince me the 650 has enough memory so I can spend a bunch of money I don't have.

[daver]

Jeff Kirvin: "Why do you sound Canadian? ... Stop that."
HEY! What's wrong with being Canadian? I'm damn proud to be a Canadian. BTW, I don't pronounce it "a-boot"... but i do use "eh?" a lot... LOL :D

[smoothjordan]

I am continuing listening to the podcast, there isn't a possible way that I have seen that you can listen to music through a bt headset. You need the audio profiles, bt 1.2 has that, but the treo has 1.1 I can listen through the wired headset. The 325, I agree, is the worst BT phone ever... Bad screen, crippled BT, and horrible reception, makes it the crappiest BT phone for sprint...
Treo 650 memory really isn't an issue, especially if you have an SD card. Put everything on the treo, bing bang boom, your good to go. I haven't messed around with the flash, i don't feel like messing up the Treo. The screen is actually brighter on my treo than my T|5, which was really shocking. I appreciate the app suggestions you gave to me, they are working great, I just am going to test out butler a little more before I purchase. Jeff, I did a review earlier on another forum I frequent about the 650, and a few accessories I purchased for it. Enjoy all!
For you all interested in a Sprint 650, check out my review!
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73370

Sprint Cradle Review
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73386

Sprint Case Review
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73388

[E Ben G]

Jeff,

You mentioned a couple of 'slick' BT phones coming from SPRINT. My SPRINT phone just died, so can you post a link for me to these upcoming phones?

Thanks.

[smoothjordan]

Check out www.sprintusers.com or www.pcsintel.com The few that are rumored are the Samsung a940, the Samsung Blade (Razr rip off), and the LG MM 545. I also believe the sanyo 9000 may come with it, but I know it's EVDO for sure

[soccrnj80]

Jeff thanks for the little shoutout on your podcast. I don't have a bt headset, but I was under the impression as stated above about needing bt profile 1.2, and we have 1.1. I would love to be able to do what you said, my treo is cool enough, this would make it much sweeter. I am VERY HAPPY your finally gettinga a treo, you will love it. I love butler,chatter (which is true push email like blackberries), I use volume care to increase my sound through phone, speakerphone,kb lightson,directory assistant, and skinner,ringo pro for my mp3 ringtones, sms mp3 tones, and keycaps. These are my top treo apps, Jeff I recommend you check these out to get the most out of your treo.

[E Ben G]

Check out www.sprintusers.com or www.pcsintel.com The few that are rumored are the Samsung a940, the Samsung Blade (Razr rip off), and the LG MM 545. I also believe the sanyo 9000 may come with it, but I know it's EVDO for sure
thanks sj.

[soccrnj80]

The thing with the memory on my treo is, yeah we should have more built in. As long as you have a good memory card your fine, I got a 512mb. I find that alot of my apps are on my card, and I still have about 4 megs free. Go to shadowmite.com to get custom roms, they are very easy to customize. I took out realplayer,versamail,etc.. Put in chatter, agendus professional, bugme notepad. Shadowmite is the treo trickster. Flashing the treo is easy, never ran into a problem, have flashed a few times. You should definitely start checking out treocentral forums, theyr are great, any questions you have get answered FAST. I have never seen one wm troll there:) Which is always nice. I am looking forward to hearing your experience with your new Treo 650. I guarantee you will love it, after buying a lifedrive, I returned it 4 days later (wasn't planning on giving up my 650) because my treo does everything I want it to do, and I depend on that keyboard, I am so much more productive, esp. w/chatter email, sms messaging, instant messaging. Congrats Jeff, good luck, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. If you have any questions email me and I'll help ya out if I can.

[PDAJah]

@JAmerican, I have Nokia 9500 camshell Smartphone which has a very usable keyboard, WiFi & BT, 640x200 pixel screen, 80MB of real user memory...etc. A also have a Treo 650, and the point is that these device formats are very different. The Treo is optimised for one hand usage, easy usage and is a PDA+cellphone. The Nokia, and therefore the similar HTC Universal, is aimed at the replacement laptop + cellphone user.

[PDAJah]

@Jeff, I have a Treo 650 & LD. I use my LD for all the heavy memory and processing tasks such as video, audio books, maps, etc. The LD is used as my portable digital store and my Treo is a used as a mini-digital store that I can use when I don't want to carry around my LD. But I am sure you know there are utilities that allow the Treo to act as an external storage device when connected to a laptop/PC so if you had a 2GB SD card you may feel that this is adequate for your needs. Having said all this, I am very impressed with the Treo design and integration, you have to use this device to really appreciate the detail thinking behind it.

[soccrnj80]

Good call Jah. You said it perfectly, once you use a Treo you really appreciate what Palm did with it, I can't even begin to imagine ever going back to a standalone pda table w/out a keyboard. Yeah if you have a large sd card you can use card export, I use that on windows, and missing sync on my powerbook to move things back and forth.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Jeff,

You mentioned a couple of 'slick' BT phones coming from SPRINT. My SPRINT phone just died, so can you post a link for me to these upcoming phones?

Thanks.
Not sure about links, but they're the A740 and A940 both from Samsung.

[soccrnj80]

Jeff I was waiting to hear you talk about Opera Mini on your podcast, what do you think of it?

[craigdts]

U might also check out "mobile.audible.com" for a treo device. Its my new favorite mobile website (that's not news related). You want information on any topic, just the facts, its the place to go.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Jeff I was waiting to hear you talk about Opera Mini on your podcast, what do you think of it?
Haven't got it to work on my T5 yet. Having issues with the Java VM...

[JAmerican]

@JAmerican, I have Nokia 9500 camshell Smartphone which has a very usable keyboard, WiFi & BT, 640x200 pixel screen, 80MB of real user memory...etc. A also have a Treo 650, and the point is that these device formats are very different. The Treo is optimised for one hand usage, easy usage and is a PDA+cellphone. The Nokia, and therefore the similar HTC Universal, is aimed at the replacement laptop + cellphone user.

Excuse me, when I say clamshell, I mean like Clamshell/Tablet device. Meaning the screen can rotate like a Tablet PC. To this day, no company has made one correctly. I bet I could design one better than most companies. I couldn't build it though. The HTC Universal actually places the battery at the bottom of the device. This is one thing I found amazing because thats what I wanted Sony to do to the UX. The Clamshell/Tablet offers a lot of room for work. Things just have to be implemented correctly.

JAmerican

[JAmerican]

...I can't even begin to imagine ever going back to a standalone pda table w/out a keyboard...

This is exactly my point. This is why I dislike most of Palm's products because only the Treos have keyboards but the buttons are too small for me. This is why I stick with Clamshell/Tablet devices due to the landscape screen, the large keyboard, and ability to hide the keyboard.

JAmerican

[JAmerican]

Haven't got it to work on my T5 yet. Having issues with the Java VM...

Did you hotsync the files? I noticed that if you move the files compared to hotsyncing, moving causes issues while syncing makes it work.

JAmerican

[soccrnj80]

yeah once you go keyboard you never go back, too bad that doesen't rhyme. The beauty of the treo is the 5 way and keyboard are integrated perfectly for one hand use, I guessd thats why the keyboard is small, I don't have a problem with it, the 650's keyboard is an improvement over the 600. To be used one handed this is the tradeoff, but I don't consider it a trade off, I am very happy with it. It has to be the best keyboarded palm os device, I know you love your ux, I had one, but the treo 650 keyboard in my opinion is superior to it due to the integration with the 5 way, the os, you never need to use a stylus basically. Maybe the ux has gotten better keyboard wise, but I remember that being one of my gripes when I had it. Also you have to follow the Opera guys instructions for the exact java prc's you need. Here's the link, Jeff you should have no problem then. http://operalover.tntluoma.com/8/opera_mini_on_treo

[strider_mt2k]

To be honest, every time I start leaning away from the Treo 650, something (or someone(s)) seem to drag me back to it as a sloution in the future.

Stupid Podcast...

;)

[Cyker]

rofl! Best Podcast Ever!!! :p :D

You two should do that more often ;)

[Jeff Kirvin]

rofl! Best Podcast Ever!!! :p :D

You two should do that more often ;)
We do that every week. Listen to Maximum Geek...

http://www.solomedia.org/podcast/

[JAmerican]

yeah once you go keyboard you never go back, too bad that doesen't rhyme. The beauty of the treo is the 5 way and keyboard are integrated perfectly for one hand use, I guessd thats why the keyboard is small, I don't have a problem with it, the 650's keyboard is an improvement over the 600. To be used one handed this is the tradeoff, but I don't consider it a trade off, I am very happy with it. It has to be the best keyboarded palm os device, I know you love your ux, I had one, but the treo 650 keyboard in my opinion is superior to it due to the integration with the 5 way, the os, you never need to use a stylus basically. Maybe the ux has gotten better keyboard wise, but I remember that being one of my gripes when I had it. Also you have to follow the Opera guys instructions for the exact java prc's you need. Here's the link, Jeff you should have no problem then. http://operalover.tntluoma.com/8/opera_mini_on_treo

(KeyQuick + UX Keyboard) + Hi-Launcher = No Stylus :)

I assigned Hi-Launcher to the Home button so when I hold the Back button, the Hi-Launcher menu pops up or when I press Ctrl + H, Hi-Launcher pops up. Keyquick has an automated highlighting functionality that once you press Tab, a pink hi-light goes over the button. You can then use the Jog Dial to go to any clickable object on the form :)

JAmerican

[Cyker]

We do that every week. Listen to Maximum Geek...

http://www.solomedia.org/podcast/

...

Damnit, now I'm subscribed to another bloody podcast!!! :eek:

(:D)

[JAmerican]

Here is the no stylus demo video :)

No Stylus on UX50 (http://jamerican.net/1src/Podwave/Podwave.wmv)

JAmerican

[soccrnj80]

Very cool Ja, it was a device that was ahead of it's time I truly believe. I am one of those converged device adopters with my 650, palm got it right this time. Too bad we didn't have a voip client yet for palm, as the ux-50 would be great.

[JAmerican]

Why is the forum so dead today??

JAmerican

[sr7]

I've chosen not to irritate everyone by debating each point? Things are moving along so fast now (Tapwave out, Fossil out, Samsung probably dropping POS too?) that it hardly seems necessary.

[JAmerican]

I've chosen not to irritate everyone by debating each point? Things are moving along so fast now (Tapwave out, Fossil out, Samsung probably dropping POS too?) that it hardly seems necessary.

To tell you the truth Sr7, I think most of us UX users will be joining the WM team when our device dies due to HTC. Palm has stuck with a tablet form-factor for too long. You can debate your points SR7, just don't do it out of context or do it untruthfully. I haven't seen your posts so I cannot make the assumption that you did even though people said you have. I talk about how Clamshell devices like the UX are needed and people get mad at me. Just because people get mad doesn't mean your wrong, just means they disagree with you. Stay clean and you have nothing to worry about.

JAmerican

[Dick Tracy]

Hello Surur. Tapwave is old news from a few podcasts ago. Fossil was not a physically attractive product (it would probably go very nicely with a mint green polyester leisure suit) and wasn't in a PDA or phone form factor. Samsung is selling Palm OS products in China; Sprint isn't there. Does Sprint service where you are? I remember when they were SP Communications and leveraged off their Southern Pacific railroad communications links to get started. The railroad was later sold to Phil Anschutz and has since been merged with several others. I was using VisiCalc and WordStar on a Northgate Horizon computer back then. SP Communications later merged with GTE (which was not known for their line quality or customer service) to become Sprint.

Would you like to discuss your Treo (this thread's topic) or any other Palm device you might have had? My E2 is doing just fine, so's my E and IIIxe. I think my original Pilot is in the closet with the Osborne. There might also be an acoustic coupler in there too. I've only been forced to hard reset a Palm once in seven years and that was because I installed an incompatible third party application. My m130 has moved on to a new owner who now has a three Treo household.

I'm not going to buy a Treo in the next two weeks like Jeff is. I do not have employer-issued equipment. Has your employer issued you any equipment? What do you use? Have you ever had to reset? Do you have a favorite application (other than your browser)? Do you have a leisure suit? Have a nice weekend.

[PDAJah]

@Dick Tracy, good questions for Surur, I have often wondered which Palm or Treo devices he owns....given that he his a regular contributor here

[smoothjordan]

@Dick Tracy, good questions for Surur, I have often wondered which Palm or Treo devices he owns....given that he his a regular contributor here

More like a troll...

[eng_kiat]

I am a Palm fan. The Treo 650 is the BEST palm device I have so far. I used the device so much that sometimes, my wife gets a bit jealous, claiming that I spent much more time with the device than herself. :)

One of the best thing about Treo650 is the battery life, like energizer, it just go on and on. I use the device for listening to Podcast during my commute to and from work, I subscribe to about 10 podcasts. Other than doing the standard Palm stuff (keeping track of schedule, todos, contact and small notes), I use Treo as a mp3 player (podcast), ebook reader, take calls, sms and retrieve emails.

However, even such a good device has some flaws, one of it is the SMS layout. Treo 650 simulate chat-mode for sms, but once the conversation builds up, it takes a while for treo to load the entire conversation before you can reply the message, so now I have to force myself to delete messages.

Another flaw is the Bluetooth. My understanding : Treo is equipped with Bluetooth 1.1, so there is no A2DP supported, thus, you will not be able to listen to music through bluetooth headphone. However, if you do come across a way to do that, pls pls pls let me know, I have been posting the same request to a few treo forum, but getting the same old reply that it can't be done.

The last minus thing abt Treo 650 is the memory, I have a T3 before the treo device, now I am force to use a 1GB SD card (which works out quite nicely as I can store all the Podcast I need to listen on the same card).

Other than the 3 minus point, Treo is a kick-*** smart phone, I am sure you will ensure yours too.

Regards.

[sr7]

More like a troll...

I prefer very knowledgeable industry commentator with a bias toward win mobile.

Doesn't mean I do not know what I'm talking about.

Either way, these threads are very short and boring when everyone is singing from the same song book. Look at this Kirvin thread at his blog. Not a single comment. http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/index.php

[Dick Tracy]

bias, n. 1 predisposition or prejudice. 2 edge cut obliquely across the weave of a fabric
v tr. influence (usually unfairly); prejudice

Oxford American Dictionary

[PDAJah]

So Sr7 not only do you own Palm devices and WM devices you work within the mobile device industry...perhaps for one of the big companies such as Dell, HTC, HP or M$ as your position gives you a unique insight into matters that those of us who are just Palm device users could benefit from...I finally understand

[soccrnj80]

Great respone PDAJah! Finally...

[Dick Tracy]

I have seen no confirmation of ownership of Palm device. Therefore I am going to quote Herbert Spencer:

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

[scobbo]

To get Stereo audio out of the Treo via Bluetooth, would require the A2DP provile which likely needs BT1.2 to get decent stereo sound.

On the other hand for listening to voice quality, mono data - "could" be able to work with the treo - as it is an audio gateway (for the phone audio). It could also - not be posssible depending on hardware design issues.

Most BT modules have a seperate data path for the PCM data sent during a voice/headset connection. (Not the same as used during DUN or serial port connections). It is possible that they "hardwired" that audio connection to the "phone" hardware and there is no ability stuff that with data from the main processor.

Any of you that have a treo and a BT headset: can you hear keypress tones and such through the BT headset when you have an audio connection going? If so, it would seem that a hack could be made to work.

That said, I have heard that the BT module used in the 650 is from Broadcomm and could/should support BT 1.2. If so, then A2DP could be "ported" and installed. I've not heard of any plans for this though.

I'll continue digging around.

Cheers,
Steve
(who doesn't yet actualy have a Treo, but am now actively looking for the best deal.)

[soccrnj80]

Isn't it known that the above companies actually have "positions" for their employees to "troll" boards. Why spend so much time hanging in a palm forum if you've never used/ or are using a palm device, sounds like he's advertising for Windows Mobile?

Please, please, please, I can't stress it enough, please don't feed the trolls.

[sr7]

Please, please, please, I can't stress it enough, please don't feed the trolls.

I could not agree more. No need to talk about me. I was just saying that if I challenged the points in the podcast, the thread would have been busier (until I got banned again of course :( ) However due to frequent banning I have learned not to waste my and everyone elses time as much.

It does make for a much quiter thread of course.

Here's something to stimulate conversation (or troll as Jimmie would call it.)

Treo 670 Sighting.

The company I work for gets a 4th quarter cataloge for our 4th quarter "product show" we have to go to every year to order our stuff for christmas and stuff.

In the book under cell phones it has a Sprint Treo 670 listed. It also has a "new" sign showing that it is a new product. BUT it has a picture of the 650.( I guess since they don't want to show the 670 till the show) It says more details and pricing will be avalible at the show.

I'm just telling everybody what i have seen with my own 2 eyes.

JK

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=93784&page=1&pp=20

I believe this is on topic, as I believe Jeff mentioned that it has all gone quiet on the Treo 670 front.

[NX70BOY]

haha, great podcast Jeff! :)

[JAmerican]

I could not agree more. No need to talk about me. I was just saying that if I challenged the points in the podcast, the thread would have been busier (until I got banned again of course :( ) However due to frequent banning I have learned not to waste my and everyone elses time as much.

It does make for a much quiter thread of course.

Here's something to stimulate conversation (or troll as Jimmie would call it.)



http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=93784&page=1&pp=20

I believe this is on topic, as I believe Jeff mentioned that it has all gone quiet on the Treo 670 front.

Surur, talk your points. You should not be banned for speaking your mind. I love when bias meets bias because Truth comes out of it. A lot of people here seem to be afraid to disagree so they accept. I can tell you right now that I hate the Treo 650 if the Treo 670 or 700 is real, I'll hate those as well. Hardware is everything and the new Treos suck compared to the wide keyboards on the older ones. I used my Treo 90 when I was like 13 so even that might be too small for my fingers now.

Also Jeff Kirvin is a person like all of us and he has opinions. His podcasts are not 100% fact, they are his opinions. People often forget that. Not saying he should stop his podcasts because I love them even if I agree or disagree. Just take that into consideration. As for this podcast, to tell you the truth, I didn't like it as much, too much joking around, less seriousness.

JAmerican

[Dick Tracy]

@JA. Your hands are larger now and the Treo keyboard doesn't work for you any more. I have ganglia in my finger joints and prefer screen input with a thumbnail. I don't hate something if the size/form factor doesn't suit me. I look for something else. If nothing is available I'll either settle for the closest match to my criteria or go without (and hope that my current unit works well until something else closer to my criteria is available). I didn't purchase a T|1, 2, 3 because I didn't care for the slider but I didn't waste my time and energy in telling anyone else that they were wrong. I had a Psion and prefer a non-clamshell, but I'm not going to lambaste clamshell users or attempt to convert them. I can't pre-judge what has not been released or available to me for testing. I can say if specs meet my criteria or potential future needs, which can and will change, as your hands have.

[JAmerican]

@JA. Your hands are larger now and the Treo keyboard doesn't work for you any more. I have ganglia in my finger joints and prefer screen input with a thumbnail. I don't hate something if the size/form factor doesn't suit me. I look for something else. If nothing is available I'll either settle for the closest match to my criteria or go without (and hope that my current unit works well until something else closer to my criteria is available). I didn't purchase a T|1, 2, 3 because I didn't care for the slider but I didn't waste my time and energy in telling anyone else that they were wrong. I had a Psion and prefer a non-clamshell, but I'm not going to lambaste clamshell users or attempt to convert them. I can't pre-judge what has not been released or available to me for testing. I can say if specs meet my criteria or potential future needs, which can and will change, as your hands have.

I didn't say I hated Treo users, I said I hated or disliked the Treo 650. I don't want to convert anyone to anything. I'm just expressing my POV. Don't like it, then ignore it. People keep telling me to get a LD. No thumbboard, no way. I guess hate is too strong of a word, how about dislike. I dislike the Treo. I'm not going to like something if I dislike a feature it has. I'm not going to switch to a device because everyone else has it or is doing it. I make sure I get what suits me that way I don't go looking for another one within a month or so. A lot of my devices are very unique. While I had them, no one else around me had them. This is because I do my research. I don't have an iPod because I find it to be a ridiculous device. It should have media capabilities. I won't follow the crowd and get it like everyone else. No matter how many people here say they like the Treo, I will stand up against you Treo lovers and say I dislike it. Is it so bad to express my POV?

JAmerican

[PDAJah]

JA, like all of us you want a device that meets your needs, and I get a better idea of what will meet my need by discussing these matters with people who actually own and use devices. And it is okay to have a view on a device that you do not have direct experience of - but IMHO a Palm/Clie forum is really for Palm/Clie people to share their experience and to help each other get the most from their devices. Some of us, who are lucky, have more than one device and therefore can provide authoratative views on cross-comparisons. Trying to make sense of views that are only based on opinons is okay but is not really helpful to Palm owners or people doing their research prior to buying a new/replacement device.

[Dick Tracy]

I didn't say I hated Treo users, I said I hated or disliked the Treo 650. I don't want to convert anyone to anything. I'm just expressing my POV. ... No matter how many people here say they like the Treo, I will stand up against you Treo lovers and say I dislike it. Is it so bad to express my POV?

JAmerican
Saying you will "stand up against" seems to me like you have a bone to pick. This sort of bone is often scooped up and toyed with by trolls.

[bloney]

Isn't it known that the above companies actually have "positions" for their employees to "troll" boards. Why spend so much time hanging in a palm forum if you've never used/ or are using a palm device, sounds like he's advertising for Windows Mobile?

Please, please, please, I can't stress it enough, please don't feed the trolls.

I would have thought my post here was way OT, but having to trawl through yours & Dick Traceys (...etc) continued personal attacks, well maybe not...

I just feel compelled to say it's, well, ahem, not good. Stand back & look at your posts for pities sake.

Thats it. Consider yourselves told & I don't want to have to tell you boys again.

Now, carry on & play nicely together.

[JAmerican]

JA, like all of us you want a device that meets your needs, and I get a better idea of what will meet my need by discussing these matters with people who actually own and use devices. And it is okay to have a view on a device that you do not have direct experience of - but IMHO a Palm/Clie forum is really for Palm/Clie people to share their experience and to help each other get the most from their devices. Some of us, who are lucky, have more than one device and therefore can provide authoratative views on cross-comparisons. Trying to make sense of views that are only based on opinons is okay but is not really helpful to Palm owners or people doing their research prior to buying a new/replacement device.

I think anyone should be able to go to any forum and discuss their point of view. Now its for the admins to agree or disagree with me. This is just my opinion. As Jeff stated earlier, he does not ban people for expressing their POVs but if the user personally attacks someone, then he would them. This is what Jeff said about his own forum. I agree with this type of administrative action. This is what makes a forum interesting. To me, I find hearing positives about the Palm world 24/7 a little disturbing because I then wonder what is true and what is blown out of proportion. Like for example, The Treo's Palm OS version with built-in phone support kept being compared to Windows Smartphone. Now there are two versions of Windows Mobile with phone support: Windows Mobile Phone Edition and Smartphone Edition. Amazingly, the Windows Mobile Phone Edition kept being ignored and Smartphone Edition kept being talked about. Now I find this to be a little subjetive. People kept saying no touchscreen, limited apps, etc. I kept thinking that the HTC Universal would be this way until I did MY OWN research and found how biased this forum was being toward Windows Mobile's two phone OSes. I actually stressed the Windows Mobile Phone Edition OS into the conversation. Now I understand we are all subjective but if you really want to compare OSes, then Compare the Treo 650 with Windows Mobile Phone Edition OS not Smartphone.

JAmerican

[JAmerican]

Saying you will "stand up against" seems to me like you have a bone to pick. This sort of bone is often scooped up and toyed with by trolls.

What is up with the use of the word "troll". Just because someone favors an OS over another, they shouldn't be considered a troll. Now I understand they then shouldn't be here because they really can't contribute to the forum as much but a little speech and debate should not hurt.

JAmerican

[Sjweise]

Not to get off-topic, but I would love to see audio transmitted over bluetooth! My question is this:
Is this a hardware issue or software issue? It seems to me that this would be so damn handy and so nice that many on many people would surely want this if available. So is it hardware or software?

PS: If you missed my sarcasm then I need to be more blunt. ;)

[Dick Tracy]

Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)

[Sjweise]

Oh rats, I thought the link was to bluetooth specs. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Wireless_Protocol

Anyways, I tried to use my jabra freespeak with my PC and the PC did not see the jabra as a usable device. I think even if the pda/smartphone had the capability to transmit the audio the headset probably would not be designed to receive it.

[vta]

Hey Jeff, looking forward to the info on your treo ownership.

I thought you (and anyone else who is interested in the Treo) would be interestred in the following pocast. It can be found on iTunes and is called 'The Treo Podcast'. It is not a Palm podcast per se, but he does use his treo to record and post his podcasts (no pc used). He also talks a bunch about the software he uses on his treo and interestingly some software he did use on his 600 that is not available for the 650, but which sounded very very cool. Like the feature of being able to have your treo automatically have any calls from your ex wife go directly to voicemail and not even ring....

Enjoy.

Adam

[PDAJah]

JA, what I do is visit 1src for Palm information, my-symbian for Symbian information and Howard Forums for WM. Howard Forums have some really dedicated and well informed WM users who seem to get prototypes very early (inc the HTC Universal). I find this approach gives me more information and less subjectivity.

[PDNet]

Any of you that have a treo and a BT headset: can you hear keypress tones and such through the BT headset when you have an audio connection going? If so, it would seem that a hack could be made to work.

You'll not hear anything from the Treo other than the call you making not even with BT Headset that support 1.2 profile. I think we'll need more than a hack to make it work, we need a miracle 'cuz technically it's not possible, the hack has to involve the software and the hardware to make it work.

If anyone can find courage to start this I think there is enough support from the community to start, we can raise donation for the project or maybe we can get one of the companies who develop the BT stereo headset to try and find away to make it work with the Treo 650.

[scobbo]

You'll not hear anything from the Treo other than the call you making not even with BT Headset that support 1.2 profile. I think we'll need more than a hack to make it work, we need a miracle 'cuz technically it's not possible, the hack has to involve the software and the hardware to make it work.

OK, what that tells me is that the voice PCM data goes directly from the BT module to the audio in/out of the "phone" hardware. We're still not dead yet.

There is no reason that the "stereo" profile can't be made to work. That will use the standard RFCOMM stream to send the data to the stereo headset. This is purely software - at this point.

If anyone can find courage to start this I think there is enough support from the community to start, we can raise donation for the project or maybe we can get one of the companies who develop the BT stereo headset to try and find away to make it work with the Treo 650.

Well, I guess that would be me. I'm just waiting for my Treo ;)

I used to work for Widcomm who was bought by Broadcomm.

It's been a while since I wrote a palm app. Guess I'll just have to get back on it.

Maybe we should move this to a different thread. I feel bad interrupting all of this uplifting banter :p

Cheers,
Steve

[Jeff Kirvin]

I don't give a toasted damn about stereo, I just want to listen to Audible and podcasts without a wire to snag on everything. Can something like Freedom redirect the speaker output to the BT headset or not?

[Sjweise]

Yeah, i don't need stereo since my headset goes in one ear only.

[scobbo]

What is Freedom?
Ha, that was not meant as a philosophical question.
What does the software do?

[Jeff Kirvin]

http://tinyurl.com/cxe97

"Freedom detects whether or not there is a headset, and plays your sounds through the headset if it's plugged in, or the Treo speaker if there's no headset available. Freedom works with the Treo®/PalmOne® supplied headphone and all other headphones that is compatible with the Treo®."

[scobbo]

You mean this doesn't happen automatically?

That seems unusual, but that may be good for us.

I'll look in to it

[Unregitered]

Shouldn't the little switch in the headphone socket do all this itself?

[jjesusfreak01]

Shouldn't the little switch in the headphone socket do all this itself?
Yeah, it looks like Palm goofed on that one. Pretty much every other electronic device on the planet has this feature, and the funny thing is that for this app to work, the hardware must already be there. Palm just forgot to add the feature. Of course, if it did work for BT I doubt this is something Palm would have added in on their own.

[PDNet]

Well, I guess that would be me. I'm just waiting for my Treo ;)

I used to work for Widcomm who was bought by Broadcomm.

It's been a while since I wrote a palm app. Guess I'll just have to get back on it.

Now how many Treo you need we'll all send you our Treos :)

How about the Headset side dose it have to support it (hardware or software as well).

[scobbo]

Well, initially - the goal would be just to get the headset and handsfree profile going - which should work with all BT headsets that work with cell phones.

[PDNet]

Once you start the development, you should start a new Thread too :cool:

[soccrnj80]

Jeff another cool thing our treo can do now is Mobitv. I am beta testing it on my treo650, it's through sprint. It's a palm app that basically has 25 tv channels right now. Cnet, the weather channel, mlb.com, espn, cnbc, fox sports, abc news, and a bunch of others. It's very cool. The quality is good as well.

[emotive]

http://tinyurl.com/cxe97

"Freedom detects whether or not there is a headset, and plays your sounds through the headset if it's plugged in, or the Treo speaker if there's no headset available. Freedom works with the Treo®/PalmOne® supplied headphone and all other headphones that is compatible with the Treo®."


Shouldn't the little switch in the headphone socket do all this itself?

Yeah, it looks like Palm goofed on that one. Pretty much every other electronic device on the planet has this feature, and the funny thing is that for this app to work, the hardware must already be there. Palm just forgot to add the feature...

Maybe you only need Freedom.prc if you use a generic headset with the Treo?

Their spiel would seem to indicate this is the case:
With Freedom, you can finally listen to mp3's and audio with any headphone...

I use the Palm Treo stereo (wired) headset. It automatically trasfers audio to the headset. I listen to (the 1src) podcast with pTunes on my 650, and when a call comes in, the podcast is paused and the ringtone comes through the headset, then I answer the call and the caller comes through. This is out of the box fiunctionality. Great for when I am driving. Once the call is finished, I can go back to where I was up to, and un-pause the podcast.


__________
This is my first post here, despite having listened to all 37 podcasts. I originally found out about the podcast through the writingonyourpalm list. I would love to be able to listen wirelessly, thus my visit to the site to see if there was a solution. I would be interested if someone writes a program to enagle this to work