2GB SD on a T3

[yorrick]

Just got a 2GB SD (Sandisk Ultra II) card for my T3.
I have been trying to get it working on my T3 but it fails to format or copy files to the card. It seems to be the T3 uses FAT and this doesn't cope with anything larger than 1GB (ie. works fine with 1GB)

I found this thread (http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88022) about putting FAT32 on the T3 and having it work properly. Unfortunately, I haven't had any success with getting the T3 working with FAT32 at all (and yes - I have worked through the entire thread).

Are there any solutions in getting a 2GB SD card working with a T3 so it can format, copy and erase files on the SD card?

[ralphster]

Hi,

I first got a 2gB sandisk card to go with the T5 I then had.

I filled it up with stuff from the T5, but unfortunately, I then realised that the T5 is an utterly and irredeemably useless piece of junk, so I reverted to my previous (and excellent) T3 with the sandisk card in it.

I have found that the T3 can read the card perfectly, but is unable to write to it. Whilst this is a slight handicap, I am able to get around it by having a hotsync cable with a seperate SD card slot in it.

Hope this is of some help.

[Tam Hanna]

German users on nexave attempted multiple things but never got 2GB write working...

[HBL]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the current version of Garnett in the T3 can't write to 2GB cards. This will require a patch from Palm1...or whatever their calling themseves these days.

[jjesusfreak01]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the current version of Garnett in the T3 can't write to 2GB cards. This will require a patch from Palm1...or whatever their calling themseves these days.
So, is this a bug? Fat16 supports 2GB, but the T3 does not?

[HBL]

So, is this a bug? Fat16 supports 2GB, but the T3 does not?

To be quite honest I really don't know. Now that I think about it, the limation I was refering to may have been 3-4GB card sizes.

Still, I'm not surprised this has happened.

[Cyker]

It must be a bug, the FAT16 spec limit is 2GB, with non-standard extensions up to 4GB (Only currently supported in WinNT and Linux AFAIK). I just can't believe even newPalm would be stupid enought to put an arbitrary limit in.

Sounds like the bug is in the SD hardware interface rather than the FAT driver 'tho, so FAT32 will not help there. It's pretty freaking lame either way.


On a tangent, I wonder if Palm will backport FAT32 support in the T|5?
They really should - The 2GB barrier is very close on the horizon and it would take someone of legendarily myopic proportions to not plan for it.

It's really sad how every other mfg's PalmOS device always seems/manages to be better future-proofed than any of Palm's...

It's a pity they tend not to support their older models much noawadays - That was one big advantage they had over Sony in the old days, but no more...
(Of course, a big advantage they have over Sony now is that Sony aren't in the market anymore, bit I digress...! :D)

[HBL]

^^
Do you think Palm would even bother to write a patch for this? It seems that some people seem to think T3's are obsolete and not worth much consideration. How much future support can T3 users expect from Palm?

[tungsten t5]

has anybody tried a 2gb and a zodiac? Zodiacs came out around the same time as the T3 did, so it could just be palm os 5.2 or whatever?

[jjesusfreak01]

has anybody tried a 2gb and a zodiac? Zodiacs came out around the same time as the T3 did, so it could just be palm os 5.2 or whatever?
TH-55s run 5.2.1, and I am fairly sure they run 2GB cards just fine.

[tungsten t5]

Does the TH55 have Sd, or sony memory slots?

[jjesusfreak01]

Does the TH55 have Sd, or sony memory slots?
It could mean that the default SD drivers that Palm wrote dont support it, and that Sony wrote their own drivers, and were obviously not so stupid as to put in this limitation.

[Cyker]

T|T5 - TH55 uses MemorySticks. Also, I haven't tried a 2GB SD on my Zod yet.
I know that 2GB MS work on the TH55, and I have read two accounts of people getting 4GB MS to work (Either as 2GB w/FAT16, or 4GB+FAT32) on both a UX50 and a TH55.

HBL - The chances of Palm fixing this bug are astronomically small; The T|3 is officially unsupported now (Like Win95 with Microsoft), and frankly none of the Palm OEMs aside from Tapwave have shown any interest at all in continued longterm support.

However, there is some hope; If 2GB SD cards work on newer Palms (non-NVFS devices would probably be safer), then if we can figure out which driver is causing the limitation (I'm guessing the SD slot driver atm), we should be able to just copy a newer more functional one onto the T|3 to have it work.
This is one area that leeching stuff off Clies won't be any use 'tho - I suspect the Tapwave and Zires will be the most likely candidates for this doner operation ;)
Drivers from T|5/LD should work in a pinch, but again NVFS adds an unknown quantity so YMMV...

[Tam Hanna]

Well, I think that it should work after one got one of the obscure Nokias working by moving the TT5s bluetoth stack over to the T3.

Howeverm, the chance for PalmOne to fix this themselves is below 0-they want T3 guys to eventually get new machines after all!

[yorrick]

Thanks for all the feedback. The request for help has been posted on 1src.com, auspug (Australian Palm User Group) and PDA24x7 and a lot of helpful answers came up.

The conclusion:
1) A 2GB SD card will not work on a T3 properly
2) A 2GB SD can be read from a T3, but not write, format or erase.

The issue is the T3 and older PDAs use FAT which has an upper limit of 1.5GB. You need to use FAT32 to access 2GB properly.
A workaround was attempted by Dmitry (http://palmpowerups.com/) by copying a patched version of FAT32 from the Lifedrive and has limited success on some PDAs (but not the T3).

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

[applejosh]

The issue is the T3 and older PDAs use FAT which has an upper limit of 1.5GB.

I thought FAT (normal 16) had an upper limit of 2GB (which makes me curious). FAT32, NTFS, or NT's bastardized FAT16 support can go larger than 2GB (not to mention the various UNIX based filesystems). Interesting...

[yorrick]

I thought FAT (normal 16) had an upper limit of 2GB (which makes me curious). FAT32, NTFS, or NT's bastardized FAT16 support can go larger than 2GB (not to mention the various UNIX based filesystems). Interesting...

FAT should be able to handle 2GB ... theoretically.
However, the practical implementation on the T3, the limit is 1.5GB (dunno how they proved this one!).

Some systems can happily use FAT / FAT16 by allocating larger clusters on storage greater than 2GB.

[applejosh]

FAT should be able to handle 2GB ... theoretically.
However, the practical implementation on the T3, the limit is 1.5GB (dunno how they proved this one!).

Some systems can happily use FAT / FAT16 by allocating larger clusters on storage greater than 2GB.

NT4 did by using 64kb clusters, IIRC (as opposed to the max. 32kb of normal FAT16), but that was it (so 4GB was the limit for those partitions). I don't believe it was really part of the FAT16 spec, though.

Still funny (funny strange, not funny ha-ha) that the T3 tops out at 1.5GB. Sad thing is the 2GB SD cards probably aren't really 2GB in the computer definition, just in the marketing definition.

[HBL]

Soo...sorry if I seem a little thick headed, but I need someone to simplify this discussion for me. Is this fixable by way of some brilliant hacker/codewriter, or are T3 users SOL?

[tungsten t5]

first take the fat32 memroy storage then take the fatl.xlm drvier converty it to lft.min then open the spd.xzn next to the ftlp and then connect the prot.fst

Just kidding :)

[Galley]

According to the Palm site the T3 *won't work* with a 2G card:


--------------------------------------------------
Solution ID: 34080


Maximum SD expansion card size and transfer speed for palmOne handhelds


LifeDrive: see Knowledge Library article 39823 instead of this article.


Because Secure Digital (SD) and MultiMediaCard (MMC) technology continues to
evolve, newer expansion cards may offer different features, such as larger
capacity and faster transfer speed, than were available for us to test when we
developed our handhelds. Although we couldn't test future expansion cards with
older handhelds during development, we expect many newer expansion cards to work
with older palmOne devices.


The maximum size of expansion card that can be used in your device depends on
the model.


Treo 650, 600 Tungsten T5, E2 Zire 72 LifeDrive and newer devices
We have tested 2GB expansion cards with these devices and can say with
confidence that they will work in these palmOne devices.


Tungsten T3, T2 Zire 71, 31 and previous devices
The file system used by these models, and those that came before them, can
support expansion cards up to (but not including) 2GB. At the time of writing,
1.5GB cards are available, and these will work with these devices. 2GB cards
will not.

[PDASpecialists]

At the time of writing, 1.5GB cards are available, and these will work with these devices. 2GB cards
will not.


OK, has anyone actually seen these 1.5gb cards before? This is news to me....

[Cyker]

1.5GB??

Thats weird.... definitely not a FAT limitation; You need the same-sized structures for 1.5GB as you'd need for 2GB...!

Maybe a hardware addressing issue or something... like how old MS slots can't read MS Pros?
I still think trying to copy the slot driver from a Zod or something that supports 2GB+ SD cards is worth a go 'tho.

[velocitysf]

Hmmm....so a 2 gb should work fine on a t-5; any ideas about a 4 gb? With a 4 gb, which is now under $200 ... i can load as much music as an IPOD mini (and can download new music directly to my palm) ...anyone know about 4 gb compatability?

[Cyker]

I wouldn't get my hopes up about the T|5 and 4GB SD if the T|3 is any indication...

And you'd still need a FAT32 driver...