Airplane pressure and Th

[francis]

I have searched with no luck but thought I would take the risk of starting a thread if it could help someone avoid my problems. I was flying recently and when I turned on My PDA it acted as though the digitizer went dead I did a hard reset thinking it was dead and when we landed it came back tgo life I had no backups on my stick and had to wait until I returned from vacation to reclaim previous data. I suffered a couple of days without my books and music player but could have avoided it completely had I known. It seems Cabin pressure messes up the TH-55 so for my part I would wait til I landed next time or use my Nx-80 which was fine in the same conditions. Francis

[SonyStyle]

i've never experienced that before ( i was on a 17 h our flight)

[daver]

i've never had any problems of that sort either, with all PDAs in my family (my TJ37, SJ20, and TH55; brother's iPAQ 1910, 1940 and NX80; dad's blackberry).

[cerberus]

Planes are pressurized so that we don't feel any differece from being on the ground. There should have been little effect on your Clie as the pressure is trying to simulate what is on the ground. I suppose it's a possibility but that would be a very strange issue to have.

I too have had several different PDAs on fights before and have not yet experienced a problem like that.

[jjesusfreak01]

Planes are pressurized so that we don't feel any differece from being on the ground. There should have been little effect on your Clie as the pressure is trying to simulate what is on the ground. I suppose it's a possibility but that would be a very strange issue to have.

I too have had several different PDAs on fights before and have not yet experienced a problem like that.
Thats not completely true. Planes are pressurized, but not to ground level. I believe they are pressurized to 9000ft. Most electronics should still work fine, but hard drives are getting very close to the minimum pressure and air density.

[danopoly]

or it could be due to radio interference. Cause your not suppose to carry PDA's at all on a plain. Its supposidly suppose to mess up the planes computers when using a laptop or anything that detects signals. You could carry em if you turn it off.

[jjesusfreak01]

They say that b/c they want a quiet plane. PDAs are ok w/ wireless turned off.

[rcxAsh]

or it could be due to radio interference. Cause your not suppose to carry PDA's at all on a plain. Its supposidly suppose to mess up the planes computers when using a laptop or anything that detects signals. You could carry em if you turn it off.
I always thought that you're allowed to use notebooks and other electronics when the "seatbelt sign turns off." lol.

But really. It was either Air Canada or Singapore Airlines, or both.. but their safety videos said that you are just not allowed to use any external peripherals such as printers, etc. Laptop computers must be stowed away for landing, take off, etc. This is what I remember on my flight. I've seen people use laptops on planes before - they were never asked to put them away.

I used my TG50 in the air while on a flight to Singapore last December. Worked fine AFAIK.

[intellidryad]

I always thought that you're allowed to use notebooks and other electronics when the "seatbelt sign turns off." lol.

But really. It was either Air Canada or Singapore Airlines, or both.. but their safety videos said that you are just not allowed to use any external peripherals such as printers, etc. Laptop computers must be stowed away for landing, take off, etc. This is what I remember on my flight. I've seen people use laptops on planes before - they were never asked to put them away.

I used my TG50 in the air while on a flight to Singapore last December. Worked fine AFAIK.

There's no problem using computers or PDAs when the seatbelt light is off. I've seen people use computers in flight and I've used my clie in flight my self. However, I always take JAL, so I don't know if other airlines have different rules (lol)

As for WIFI, yes, they tell you to turn it off at all times. However, I've read in the news that Virgin atlantic has been offering in flight WIFI internet access for a while, and JAL offering it on Tokyo to Newyork flights. They tell us that the electromagnetic waves mess up the flight instraments, but Boeing is outfitting planes with WIFI APs, and American Airlines even did an in flight cell phone test, and might be installing miniture phone signal towers on planes in the future. (read these sometime ago in the news). So, I don't know if the waves really mess up the navigation instraments.

As for inflight PDA abnomalties? My power/hold switch screwed up on a flight, but I'd consider that a coincidance since it's a known flaw with the NX73/80s. Besides, it didn't happen the second time I took it on the plane(after the switch was fixed).

[daver]

or it could be due to radio interference. Cause your not suppose to carry PDA's at all on a plain. Its supposidly suppose to mess up the planes computers when using a laptop or anything that detects signals. You could carry em if you turn it off.AFAIK, you cannot use wireless technology like WIFI or BT. Obviously IR is ok because it's extremely short ranged.

their safety videos said that you are just not allowed to use any external peripherals such as printers, etc. Laptop computers must be stowed away for landing, take off, etc. This is what I remember on my flight. I've seen people use laptops on planes before - they were never asked to put them away.they ask that you stow away all electronic devices during landing and takeoff, but they have absolutely no effect on the airplane during the two procedures. However, as you mentioned, other types of electronics like external peripherals (printers, monitors, modems) aren't allowed.

EDIT: argh!!! you beat me by a minute, Intellidryad!

[Cyker]

I think they tell you to stow it away for safety reasons (If you crash on takeoff/landing you don't wanna be holding a pointy stylus or a fairly hefty shell full of spikey solder joins :p :D)

But the digitiser issue is due to air pressure in planes. It's been fairly well documented here already, but varys quite wildly between people and airlines.

[Wytnucls]

For the record, aircraft cabin pressure in a modern airliner seldom exceeds 6000 ft. Differential pressure is automatically regulated to a maximum of ~ 8.2 PSI.
I have experienced an erratic digitizer on my TH55 in flight, probably due to residual tensions in the screen protector, made worse at altitude. My NX80 was never affected, so I suspect that the TH55 digitizer is very sensitive to air pressure. I don't know if reapplying the screen protector while airborne might solve the problem.
Extensive trials were conducted with portable appliances to observe effects on aircraft instrumentation. None were noticed, but restrictions exists on radio transmitters and laser emitting devices.

[francis]

I did wait unlit the seat belt sign was off wut it is important to mention and in retrospect I had not remembered this that the return flight a much bigger plane presented no such problems? I am pretty sure it was a pressure problem as the pda th-55 acted normally except for the screen. and the nx was completely unaffected. since then my capture button died on me I no't know if this was coincidentail or a result of the flight although i am pretty sure it was the pressure as it is fine now. Thanks for you replies, Francis

[tonyreynolds]

Actually, almost ALL commercial aircraft pressurize the cabin interior at 8000 feet. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner will have a cabin pressure of 6000 feet, only because of the use of composites: in an aluminum aircraft, the weight gain to contain the increased pressure would be excessive.

Boeing has conducted extensive testing with volunteers in hyperbaric chambers and confirmed that there is little negative physiological effect from sea level to 6000 feet, but physiology is greatly affected at altitudes above 6000 feet.

Use of IrDA onboard as opposed to bluetooth has nothing to do with range. It's because bluetooth is RADIO technology, and RADIOS are not allowed because of potential interference with navigational equipment. Boeing has a product called Connexion, which allows use of broadband WiFi 802.11b throughout the aircraft cabin for a fee and it is in use on Lufthansa and SAS. This will be an optional feature of the new Dreamliner. (It's a seperate product...)

Harddrives are affected by higher altitudes because the cushion of air that the read/write head rides over the platter is reduced, with the possibility of the platter being scored by the head if they come in contact. from what I've read, this is only an issue at 9000 feet and above.

Hope this helps clear some thing up...

Tony

[Wytnucls]

Actually, almost ALL commercial aircraft pressurize the cabin interior at 8000 feet. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner will have a cabin pressure of 6000 feet, only because of the use of composites: in an aluminum aircraft, the weight gain to contain the increased pressure would be excessive.
Tony
The Airbus A-340 cabin altitude is limited to 7,350 ft, which means a max cruise altitude of FL410. However, most of the flight will be spent at a lower cruising altitude and thus lower cabin altitude. For instance: 6400ft at 38,000 ft. Still high enough to affect the digitizer.

[JohnKes]

A long time ago Seagate had a problem with their hard drive heads crashing in Denver. Apparently, they had designed certain models to have extra thin air cushion (better data density on the disk?). The air was too thin in the Denver area (5280 ft altitude) to support the drive heads properly. Can you say RECALL ?

I too have heard of low cabin pressure affecting digitizers. Perhaps from a trapped air bubble in the liquid crystal material that expands in the low pressure and pushes against the two glass layers. Also beware of static electricity while in an airplane, since the air is very dry. Many handhelds have gotten zapped, resulting in data loss or SUDS (Palm m5xx series).

[Wytnucls]

Good point about static electricity. Probably not too serious as I haven't had any problems so far (touch wood) after 2 years of extensive use aloft. Better shielding perhaps on modern PDAs?

[Mark29]

I've never had any problems with my TH or any PDAs in-flight - including trips to Asia, Europe, & South America.

Mark

[Mark29]

or it could be due to radio interference. Cause your not suppose to carry PDA's at all on a plain.

Baloney. They want all electronic devices turned off during takeoff and landing only. I've never been on a flight where devices are banned, other than cell phones which are to remain off at all times.

Mark

[loooney2ns]

I have flown with my TJ-35 and my TH-55 and neither had any problems, nor did my Dell Inspiron 2100. I am curious if the screen protector had any effect-it sounds like a possibility. I haven't bought one yet, but I might not if I am going to have problems flying. I only want to get a screen protector to cut down the glare while watching movies and TV shows.

[ID Engineer]

It was a problem with the old T615s, including mine. Here's a thread with some information:

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9117&highlight=airplane+t615

I haven't had the problem with my TH55.

[psau3]

Here's a few hopefully useful observations:

1. RF interference from aircraft systems should not be powerful powerful enough to affect electronic devices in the passenger cabin. Consider hearing aids and people with pacemakers. Your laptop/PDA has been designed to be tolerant of external RFI. Look at the small print in the manual.

2. RF interference from electronic devices (laptops, PDAs, etc.) should not be capable of interfering with the aircraft's electronic systems. If they were, they would not have passed the RFI tests in the country of origin, prior to manufacture. WiFi and BT are also very low power.

I too have heard of low cabin pressure affecting digitizers. Perhaps from a trapped air bubble in the liquid crystal material that expands in the low pressure and pushes against the two glass layers. Also beware of static electricity while in an airplane, since the air is very dry. Many handhelds have gotten zapped, resulting in data loss or SUDS (Palm m5xx series).

3. The digitiser is usually entirely separate from the LCD, and is generally made from a glass substrate covered in a grid of tiny silicone standoffs. The plastic top sheet is doped to form a semiconductive layer (the Kyocera units we had used an indium-tin alloy) and glued to the copper track around the edge of the glass. As for the static issue and the m5xx units, I had first-hand experience of that. The USB comms chip was incorrectly grounded in those devices.

4. Digitiser drift is due to changes in pressure, whether from the atmosphere, external mechanical, or the conductive plastic layer debonding from the glass. Not all digitisers are pressure-sealed. A 'screen protector' may affect in differing ways. Hopefully, any effects from cabin pressure changes will fade in time.

5. From the other linked thread, the 'T6xx going nuts' issue might be due to the IR output of the cabin fluorescent lights. My T675 used to have exactly the same problem on the London Underground. It seems that random pulsing in the tube drivers can make the PDA think it's supposed to be handshaking with another device. The high-IR-power T6xx series is particularly susceptible to this. Turn beam receive off to fix.

Finally,

I had no backups on my stick is weird. No idea there. You didn't say if any other data on the stick had been deleted, or if it required reformatting...

[francis]

No waht I meant was that I foolishly copied my backups t my computer to make foom for books and music and the backups where useless at home as that is the whole reasonfor backup ( when away from computer hotsync oh well thanks for the imput and I did have a screen protector on. Just an FYI better safe than sorry as I am sure the pressure is not perfect on all flights.

[Tam Hanna]

Well, I never had any problems with my IIIc, m505, tungsten T and T3

[Cyker]

It seems to vary quite wildly... maybe some models are more resistant than others, and maybe some planes have different pressures than others, but the digitiser/pressure issue is a real one.
I know in the days when I used to travel to HK, British Airways planes where at a lower pressure than Cathy Pacific planes.