View Full Version : Pics: LifeDrive uses a 5GB drive
Reggie
05-24-2005, 08:49 PM
Check out the pics (courtesy of TPUG (http://www.tpug.org)):
http://www.tpug.org/modules/OLD_News/2005/05May/Inside-LifeDrive04.gif
http://www.tpug.org/modules/OLD_News/2005/05May/Inside-LifeDrive01.gif
http://www.tpug.org/modules/OLD_News/2005/05May/Inside-LifeDrive02.gif
FullAction
05-24-2005, 09:23 PM
They changed the drive from a Seagate 5GB to a Hitachi 4GB due to higher seek speeds on the Hitachi. Price might also have been an argument.
Jeff Kirvin
05-24-2005, 09:26 PM
Interesting. Wonder why it's only formatted to 4GB?
Jeff Kirvin
05-24-2005, 09:27 PM
Anyone want to try extending it with PartitionMagic?
tungsten t5
05-24-2005, 10:05 PM
jeff, that is a pre-released version. The version now has only 4gb because it was faster and cheaper.
Jeff Kirvin
05-24-2005, 10:11 PM
Ah. Gotcha. But that then also leads to the question: Did BargainPDA and David Pogue have devices with the older, slower Seagate drives?
tungsten t5
05-24-2005, 10:13 PM
that may be possible, there could have been other improvents than just the hard drive too. I'm happy that the battery is not directly soldered to the motherbaord. that means we can easily upgrade/replace the battery
Jeff Kirvin
05-24-2005, 10:16 PM
I wanna LifeDrive with jumper cables...
SonyStyle
05-24-2005, 10:20 PM
wow, open ur back of ur lifedrives, i wanan see ur 4GB hitachi drives!
poissonsouriant
05-26-2005, 02:19 AM
You know, that battery seems fairly easy to replace.....
timepilot84
05-26-2005, 04:56 AM
In his podcast, Jeff thought that the backplate was painted plastic. I think it's aluminum (easier to tell when it's cold). Looking at these pics, I'd have to say that for sure it's aluminum, or they did one heck of a job painting it on the inside, unlike the white plastic equatorial ring on the top pic painted silver on the outside.
After hearing the cast I had to take another look, but I'm pretty sure it's aluminum.
timepilot84
05-26-2005, 05:00 AM
Looking at the placement of the Wi-Fi antenna, I'm thinking all the heat is coming off the battery and/or the hard drive, now. I was thinking the wi-fi might be giving off a lot, because of the way my wi-fi card on the T5 got warm. Most of the heat seems to come from the lower back part of the machine.
Also, the wi-fi antenna placement explains why the top of the backplate is a separate plastic piece. Interesting.
JAmerican
05-26-2005, 04:21 PM
Amazing so its an actual Compact Flash? Why didn't they just put a slot on the right side for Compact Flash? Poor design :( The right side has nothing.
JAmerican
timepilot84
05-26-2005, 04:40 PM
Amazing so its an actual Compact Flash?
Are you looking at the same pictures as the rest of us? I don't see a compact flash slot anywhere. These drives have compact flash versions, but the ones that are in the LD aren't compact flash.
Having a CF drive would make the LD Manager software problematic as well.
Surur
05-26-2005, 05:48 PM
Are you looking at the same pictures as the rest of us? I don't see a compact flash slot anywhere. These drives have compact flash versions, but the ones that are in the LD aren't compact flash.
Having a CF drive would make the LD Manager software problematic as well.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/microdrive/seagate_5gb_sm.jpg
Does this look familiar? 5GB Seagate CF drive.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/microdrive.html
You could remove that card, copy the partitions onto a 4GB solid state CF card ($400), sell your microdrive on ebay for $180. Total cost for a great upgrade - about $200.
Surur
JAmerican
05-26-2005, 06:26 PM
Are you looking at the same pictures as the rest of us? I don't see a compact flash slot anywhere. These drives have compact flash versions, but the ones that are in the LD aren't compact flash.
Having a CF drive would make the LD Manager software problematic as well.
How so? The SD card doesn't cause any problems? How would a Compact Flash be any different. The VZ90 could handle it and its 5.2.1? Why couldn't a 5.4.8 version of Palm OS handle Compact Flash removable memory?
JAmerican
tungsten t5
05-26-2005, 06:48 PM
i think it's a compact flash card.
timepilot84
05-26-2005, 07:13 PM
How so? The SD card doesn't cause any problems?
The SD card doesn't work with LD manager. Having a drive that may or may not be inserted might be problematic with LifeDrive Manager software. I'm not talking about PalmDesktop; I'm not talking about Drive Mode. LifeDrive Manager software.
Plus, I don't really want to go back to the days of having to insert a system disk in order to boot up, even if resets are infrequent.
AdamaDBrown
05-26-2005, 11:41 PM
In his podcast, Jeff thought that the backplate was painted plastic. I think it's aluminum (easier to tell when it's cold). Looking at these pics, I'd have to say that for sure it's aluminum, or they did one heck of a job painting it on the inside, unlike the white plastic equatorial ring on the top pic painted silver on the outside.
After hearing the cast I had to take another look, but I'm pretty sure it's aluminum.
The backplate is both. There's an aluminum layer over most of the back, and under that is another layer of plastic. This underlayer is what forms the top back of the case where the antenna is.
My review unit had a Hitachi drive, as I suspect all the others did. These were retail boxed units.
While the internal drive does have a CompactFlash interface, I'm pretty sure that you cannot remove it safely, nor replace it with some other type of CF card. These drives can be used in an OEM mode that's not compatible with standard CompactFlash for exactly this reason.
Steve Skyrm
06-02-2005, 03:14 PM
The SD card doesn't work with LD manager. Having a drive that may or may not be inserted might be problematic with LifeDrive Manager software. I'm not talking about PalmDesktop; I'm not talking about Drive Mode. LifeDrive Manager software.
Actually, Life Drive Manager does allow you to access the SD card.
'IF' the HD can not be replaced with a CF card this will just be another one of those frustrating points that Palm keeps throwing at us. Pity.
I love the idea of the LD, and would pay good money for one that worked as well as previous palms. I would pay $800 for a LD with a CF and decent RAM (say 128) if it meant snappy performance and MP3 playback without issues!
For $499 I might have not returned my LD if it had been able to play MP3's without hiccups. Also seek times for files on HD took a while (would a CF card give quicker file access?)
Any chance the RAM can be upgraded? :)
jjesusfreak01
06-05-2005, 08:11 AM
If it uses a real CF card, it is likely that it can be taken out and formatted for another device. The question is whether when you do a hard reset it formats the HDD completely or just erases what you put on it. If it does the former, there is the possibility you may be able to add a new HDD, or even a 4GB CF card. Maybe you could add more memory?
6GB Hitachi drive = $237
palmato
06-05-2005, 09:13 AM
It's conceivable that only the 3k4 drive would be be accepted by the boot code and nothing else would work.
Anyway, a brave german has opened the lifedrive and placed a Cf memory card instead of the hard drive. The result is nothing, the LD just sists there and refuses to start. After reinstating the HD, the device was back to normal. With broken warranty seal, though.
You can read the thread at nexave.de (http://www.nexave.de) forum:
here (http://www.nexave.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=14662) and here (http://www.nexave.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=14672)
There are very nice pictures of the LD internals. And the HD is indeed a 4GB Hitachi, likely a OEM version.
There seems to be enough place for an upgraded battery and the casing is easier to open than the T series.
I am asuming he used Norton Ghost or something similar to make the CF card an exact copy of the Microdrive?
Does anyone know for sure?
Adam
sonypenguin
06-05-2005, 07:40 PM
Wow...
It's just been couple of days... and people already tried to test more safer media.... LOL.
Thanks to LD, Clie users have better option to put 4GB memory stick on our devices. ;P
spacehog
06-29-2005, 07:32 AM
hey guys, im seriously considering swapping the MD with the 4GB flash disk ive extracted from my muvo2 mp3 player. is it just a matter of copying partitions from one drive to the other or do you expect any circuitry work to be involved? since this would void the warranty i want to be sure i wont be left with a paperweight... thanks!
p_boucher
06-29-2005, 10:22 AM
hey guys, im seriously considering swapping the MD with the 4GB flash disk ive extracted from my muvo2 mp3 player. is it just a matter of copying partitions from one drive to the other or do you expect any circuitry work to be involved? since this would void the warranty i want to be sure i wont be left with a paperweight... thanks!
You tell us! :D
Are your LD open yet? If so, what the drive connection to the motherboard looks like? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be soldered because it would be a PITA for P1 to replace them. My guess is it just "connect" inside. I know that the german guy failed to boot up his LD with a CF, but i'm not sure why. If the preprod models worked with a 5gb drive, it should work with some flash drive.
Anyway, please keep us posted on your developement!
As I understand, the german guy was able to put back the orginal disk inside the LD and start it up again; so apart from a voided warranty, you have a backup solution to revert it back to the original state.
Dufsi791
07-08-2005, 02:02 AM
http://www.interfoto.no/grafikk/nyheter/cf-4gig.jpg
what about that? all-be-it more expensive, its more practical.... harder to break (ever drop a hard drive? "shatter") not to mention no "air pressure problems"
also, time delay issues will be non-existant and chkdsk wont be needed..... would solve so many issues....
CoolMel
07-09-2005, 12:39 PM
I know that the german guy failed to boot up his LD with a CF, but i'm not sure why. If the preprod models worked with a 5gb drive, it should work with some flash drive.
I've read the german guy's translated article. From what I understand, he did'nt try to copy or transfer the microdrive partitions to its CF before installing the CF in his LD. Maybe this is achievable and may allow CF replacement of the Microdrive.
Any thoughts anyone ?
CoolMel.
joepagIII
11-25-2005, 09:04 AM
my hard drive failed...has anyone else done this...can i get the data from there original drive
mattsimis
11-29-2005, 08:02 AM
Hi,
I realise this is an old thread, but I too am planning to swap the drive in my Lifedrive. The info in the start of the thread is wrong, the Seagate 5GB is much faster than the Hitachi 4GB. For one, the Seagate has a massive 2MB Buffer, the Hitachi only 128KB. Bigger buffer, faster drive and lower power consumption.
I suspect the Lifedrive was designed and planned to use the Seagate then switched to the Hitachi for costing reasons late in the dev cycle.
Drive Info:
www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/marketing/Seagate_ST1.pdf
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/micro/micro3k4.htm
Comparison of drives:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/seagate-st1-5gb.html
Thats the now old 5GB Seagate, the current 8GB Seagate is much faster again. Just need an elegant way of removing the security screws on the back of the Lifedrive..
Matt
pgenie
11-29-2005, 08:09 AM
Hi,
I realise this is an old thread, but I too am planning to swap the drive in my Lifedrive. The info in the start of the thread is wrong, the Seagate 5GB is much faster than the Hitachi 4GB. For one, the Seagate has a massive 2MB Buffer, the Hitachi only 128KB. Bigger buffer, faster drive and lower power consumption.
I suspect the Lifedrive was designed and planned to use the Seagate then switched to the Hitachi for costing reasons late in the dev cycle.
Drive Info:
www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/marketing/Seagate_ST1.pdf
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/micro/micro3k4.htm
Comparison of drives:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/seagate-st1-5gb.html
Thats the now old 5GB Seagate, the current 8GB Seagate is much faster again. Just need an elegant way of removing the security screws on the back of the Lifedrive..
Matt
I agree with your comment
Just need an elegant way of removing the security screws on the back of the Lifedrive..
Matt
...and configuring the RAM partition properly etc etc....good luck cos you'll need it!
joepagIII
11-29-2005, 08:29 PM
what about reinstalling palm afterwards...will it work....
joepagIII
11-30-2005, 06:36 AM
hey matt i think you got a good idea...
hey matt i think you got a good idea...
In stark contrast, I think its a really silly idea and almoste certainly wont work. Reconfiguring the RAM partition is probably impossible and the fact that the seagate has a different buffer makes it unlikely that the Palm firmware will support it...apart from that it IS a great idea
I should also say that some attempts to replace the HD with a CF microdrive have already failed dismally, probably for the above reasons...
:cool:
p_boucher
11-30-2005, 12:30 PM
Now this is where I kinda disagree with you; I have no doubt at PalmSource they have good programmers and if their APIs are well built, the OS shouldn't even know what size the drive is, what speed, what cache, etc... Do you need to reconfigure windows when you put a 300Gb drive inside instead of that old 80gb?
And this solely still makes me think there is a (small) possibility replacing the HD with a CF could work. If ppl at Palm are clever enough they don't want multiple OSes - so the same OS version should work wether there is a disk or only flash mem.
Replacing a 4gb with another drive (faster and/or bigger) would HAVE TO work. Maybe and hopefully the paritionning is done by the hard reset; I doubt Palm would partition all HD before putting them in the LD; and I sincerely doubt that Hitachi pre-partions disks before shipping them to Palm.
Anyways... my 2cents.
That said, I believe the 2 screws are under the rubber pads behind the casing ;)
joepagIII
11-30-2005, 06:25 PM
heres my 2 cents the ld will use a cf if its over 64 megs ....
williamwck
02-22-2006, 09:41 AM
I want to ask a stupid question.
If i remove the 4G mirco dirve in my LD. (ie:no any mirco dirve in LD)
Would my LD work normal ?
I want to sold my 4G mirco drive, then buy 2G SD Card.
I want to ask a stupid question.
If i remove the 4G mirco dirve in my LD. (ie:no any mirco dirve in LD)
Would my LD work normal ?
I want to sold my 4G mirco drive, then buy 2G SD Card.
if you took the HD out of your PC would it work?? Even worse in this case as what you might think of as 'normal' storage RAM is, in fact, a partition on the HD. So the answer to your question is a resounding No!
so...why not ebay your LD and buy a TX and a 2Gb SD??
williamwck
02-24-2006, 10:20 AM
if you took the HD out of your PC would it work?? Even worse in this case as what you might think of as 'normal' storage RAM is, in fact, a partition on the HD. So the answer to your question is a resounding No!
so...why not ebay your LD and buy a TX and a 2Gb SD??
It is a stupid design. Palm take Mircodrive as a RAM. My LD runing very very slow.
Cyker
02-24-2006, 01:07 PM
No, the LD won't work without it's drive.
AFAIK, the LD doesn't have any firmware apart from the basic bootloader - The stuff that would normally go in the ROM chips is on a hard disk partition.
The LD is basically it's hard disk (Plus a small amount of Real RAM).
If the LD can use the disk (i.e. it's not DRM'ed or something), and the disk isn't in some exotic format, you could probably Ghost or dd the old to the new and then expand the memory partition to get everything working.
However, I do wonder if the 5GBs will be visible - Palm are stickler's for coding in stupid arbitary limits in their stuff (The T|3's 1.5GB issue being one of the most well known), so they might have a 4GB hard limit in there somewhere - If so, this won't work...
I didn't receive my LD yet, but I doubt replacing the disk by a flash-based CF is a good idea...
As some know, Flash based cards have a limited read/write cycle life, even though the onboard controlers chooses the best place to write on to avoid errors the overall life will be shorter than magnetic disks.
The first rule when building a flash based embedded computer is to remove swaps and prevent writing as much as possible... And here we have the exact case...
We'd better keep on high-capacity disk CF's.
fabio_kell
03-06-2006, 12:16 PM
Guys,
I was reading the forum and i got a similar problem. I went into a trip in paris, and for some stupid reason i stored all my photos from the trip in the lifedrive. I erased the original memory card (SD) and continue to use it again. Guess what, the lifedrive harddisk fail on me. I had to open it, loosing the warranty to send it out to a harddisk recovery in order to get my photos, and i could not get it.
Anyway, besides this sad story, what i did is I bought a regular CF card of 128Mb to do a test and put it on the lifedrive. I tried to hard reset it, thinking that this would format the card and make it ready to be used, even if it is on a lower memory, but anyways, nothing happened. You can start the hard reset process and the LD hangs.
Maybe is because the capacity of the drive, i think.
Somebody knows if it is really possible to replace the microdrive? I am planning to buy a new microdrive, but i need some money to this and i want to know if it is worth it.
Thanks
AdamaDBrown
03-07-2006, 12:46 AM
Somebody knows if it is really possible to replace the microdrive?
Not really. The OS and everything else is on the hard drive, so even if you got a replacement, it wouldn't work, because there's nothing there.
fabio_kell
03-07-2006, 11:01 AM
If this is so, and i can not use a new disk. Please if somebody has it open and can send me a clone of the harddisk (using ghost for example) i would really apreciate that. I don;t know if it is possible, but what i heard from the hard drive restauration is that the disk was partitioned as a FAT partition, so i would assume that norton ghost would work just fine.
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