To all JS33 users! POST YOUR BATTERY LIFE HERE!

[clie_lover33]

TO ALL SJ33 USERS: Could you please put here your battery life for our comparison? You can do it over night when you are sleeping, you don't have to give up your Clie for a day....

Can you try this:

1. Install the Palm Bench software on your Clie:
2. Make sure it's fully charged.
3. Set the screen to max brightness.
3. BACK UP YOUR STUFF! just in case, either Hot Sync or MS
4. Run the battery test on Palm Bench.
5. Tell us your results!!!!!

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!

It will help us all troubleshoot battery life and compare it between different users.

(Please use full backlight just for the test so we have the same testing conditions)

[clie_lover33]

My gets 4 hours 31 minutes with full backlight. (Seems quite short)

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by clie_lover33
My gets 4 hours 31 minutes with full backlight. (Seems quite short)

Do you really find you need the backlight on full ? I can use mine almost all the time on only 1/4 to 1/3 level with no problems at all. Check & see if beam receive is turned off as that eats up extra power too. I'm getting 7 hours with 50% charge left the way I use it & I'm very happy with it.

[gummycat]

Where did you get an english version? I tried the link you provided and the version from there is German. THen I tried PalmGear, but that version is German as well.

I'd like to perform this test.... but in English!

Thanks!

M

[clie_lover33]

Originally posted by gummycat
Where did you get an english version? I tried the link you provided and the version from there is German. THen I tried PalmGear, but that version is German as well.

I'd like to perform this test.... but in English!

Thanks!

M

The english version is actually embedded in the program! It just defaults to the German language but you can easily change it to English! Here is how.
When you start the program you get 5 icons, the second from the bottom looks like 3 flags and says "Sprache wahlen" which means Choose language in German. Tap it, choose English and you are done. Enjoy!

[Chanbingo]

Hi

From PalmGear when I download the Palm Bench software I repeatedly get a corrupted zip file.

Can you give me another link to download PalmBench, Or the developer's website.

I did a google search but couldn't get a valid link

Chan

[Windboi]

someone can put the link here ...

[clie_lover33]

http://www.ive-software.com

this is the developer's site for Palm Bench

[clie_lover33]

DOWNLOAD PALM BENCH HERE! Since some people had problems downloading it from Palm Gear here is the zip file you can download directly.

[madmaxmedia]

Hi Paul,

To eliminate variables for this test, we all need to use the same brightness. Also, using the Palm Bench programs eliminates variations in usage.

This will provide a so-so measure of realistic battery life, but the main purpose is for us to compare 'battery strength' so we know whether our CLIE's are okay. Some people didn't follow the exact Sony directions for charging the CLIE the first time, and it apparently can affect battery life.

I'm going to try to test this weekend, the thing is I also need to redo the charge thing first.

Originally posted by PaulNB
Do you really find you need the backlight on full ? I can use mine almost all the time on only 1/4 to 1/3 level with no problems at all. Check & see if beam receive is turned off as that eats up extra power too. I'm getting 7 hours with 50% charge left the way I use it & I'm very happy with it.

[bordeaaj]

4hrs 43mins 35secs battery-life using PalmBench with SJ33 on full bright. It does seem kind of short doesn't it. Still, my Prism and Treo 90 don't seem to have that kind of battery-life. And I rarely use my SJ33 at full bright for very long. I use it with the Energy Dimmer Hack at about 1/4 bright and dimming further after a minute of non-use. This seems to significantly extend my battery.

[madmaxmedia]

Keep in mind backlight is a SIGNIFICANT factor. This is from the SJ30 review at Palminfocenter-

Because the major battery drain that is under the user's control is the backlight, I did several tests with the backlight set on different levels.

With the backlight at half power, the first battery warning came after exactly 6 hours of use. I think this is the most realistic test, as most people tend to keep the backlight set somewhere near half power.

With the backlight at full power, the first battery warning came after just 3 hours of use.

Finally, I wanted to see what was the maximum time I could get. With the backlight at about one quarter power, which I consider the minimum, the first battery warning came after 9 and a half hours of use. I didn't try it with the backlight all the way down or off because I think the screen is to dim to be useful with the backlight below one quarter power.

So almost 5 hours at full backlight is better than SJ30 I believe. In any case, it's interesting 2 people have gotten almost the same exact result.

[clie_lover33]

Wow! What a relief! I'm getting 4:31 so it's pretty close, I was one of those people who used Clie before it was fully charged for the first time. So it seems it didn't damage the battery after all! (although I did a hard reset as SOny support suggested) Also I checked carefully the manual (sometimes reading manuals can help...) and it said about battery that you should get up to 9 days of 30minutes a day use with full backlight, which translates to 4 hours 30 minutes of continuous use.

[PaulNB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by madmaxmedia
[B]Hi Paul,

To eliminate variables for this test, we all need to use the same brightness. Also, using the Palm Bench programs eliminates variations in usage.

OK, I'm sure there are enough people to help you find out what you need to know. As for me I'm confident I'm getting what Sony claimed which would be 8.5 hours (based on their website claim of 17 days @ 30 mins day).

[bordeaaj]

I also used my SJ33 a little before it was fully charged so my time of 4hrs 43mins might be affected by that. However, I did have to do multiple hard resets while transferring data from my old PDA so that might have cleared any damage I might have done to the battery. It would be interesting to get a comparison from someone who got a full charge before turning on their SJ33.:confused:

[___]

5 hours 52 minutes.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by bordeaaj

done to the battery. It would be interesting to get a comparison from someone who got a full charge before turning on their SJ33.:confused: [/B]

I didn't turn mine on AT ALL before it's first full charge (4 hrs, 40 minutes I believe it took) but I don't use it at full brightness quite simply because:

1) I don't need it that bright most of the time
2) I'm used to color PDA's & the methods for getting more battery life out of them since this is my3rd color PDA

So I'm getting 7 hours (50% power left) at 1/4 brightness which works fine FOR ME. It sounds like what you're getting at full brightness is just about right based on what I've read from various websites. (Brighthand said 4hrs 40 minutes on full brightness for example)

Sony should state specifically on their website what brightness level, sound volume, etc that they use in order to come up with their estimate of 8.5 hours. I always assumed from day one that it wasn't a quote for full brightness as it's common for manufacturers to state the best possible time for their devices. If you want to use it at full brightness you just have to live with shorter battery life. According to another review (Palminfocenter) if you were using a T665 at full brightness (same screen) you'd get 2 hrs & 5 minutes instead of the 4 hours 40 minutes on the SJ33. Anyway I hope people are happy with their SJ33's, after 3 full weeks I have no regrets.

[bordeaaj]

Thanks PaulNB, it's nice to know my SJ33 has decent battery life. I have had mine for about two weeks without any regrets either. I had no idea I'd like it so much more than my Prism and Treo. If I had waited another week before buying it I may have opted for the new TG50 however. But maybe I'm better off with PalmOS4 until all the bugs are worked out of OS5.

[rayray]

Oh..~
i got 5:12:10

[rayray]

Oh......Oh....anyone gor error message after re charge it again??

[clie_lover33]

In the manual it says you can get 17 days/30min a day (8.5 hours total) of use with BACKLIGHT OFF. Completely off, totally dark. (Who would use it like that?) And it says with backlight on you should get 9 days of 30min a day (4:30 total) with full baklight running simple programs, not games or MP3s. It vaguely says that battery life differs under different conditions (playing graphic-intensive games with full sound) and during MP3s. It says the max for playing MP3s with full backlight is about 4 hours. I'll test that and see.

[Unregistered]

I got 5:05 with full back light and 7:38 with the back light at half.

I think this is OK.


DRSDJ33

[danachee]

Ok, with backlight set at ~75% (which to me is the best compromise of awsome display and battery life), I got 5 hours 25 minutes.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by PaulNB
If you want to use it at full brightness you just have to live with shorter battery life. According to another review (Palminfocenter) if you were using a T665 at full brightness (same screen) you'd get 2 hrs & 5 minutes instead of the 4 hours 40 minutes on the SJ33. Anyway I hope people are happy with their SJ33's, after 3 full weeks I have no regrets.

I think most people are happy with their SJ33, I definitely am! The main point by the original poster was just to make sure his/her battery was performing as well as it should. Most people seem to be at around 4:40 to 5 hours with the test program.

I'm doing the reset charge thing right now since I wasn't that careful when I first charged. I'll report my test results afterwards. The funny thing is it took me a while to run my battery down to 10%. I had the screen on full bright, was playing MP3 on the internal speaker at full volume, and playing BeJeweled at the same time! Now that's a battery stress test! ;)

[hodson]

I've been using a Visor Deluxe for about 3 years. I have been reading this forum for over a month now and finally ordered an SJ33. It came 2 days ago. What a difference the color screen can make!!

I knew, because of this forum, about the "supposed issue" of using the SJ33 during the initial charge so I did NOT turn it on during this charge. If I compare the battery life of the SJ33 to my Visor I'm initially quite disapointed BUT then I think about all the new features I didn't have before (Color Screen, MP3 Player, Faster Processor etc.) and I stop complaining!!

I just ran the Palm Bench with my backlight on 100%. My battery went 5 hrs, 5 mins, 8 secs.

GREAT forum guys & gals!!!

[PaulNB]

I knew, because of this forum, about the "supposed issue" of using the SJ33 during the initial charge so I did NOT turn it on

I've been warned on 2 different cellphones now that turning them on before giving them a full charge can cause shorter battery life. I assume that since they use the same type of battery as an SJ33 that a similiar warning is in order. In 3 different manuals for 3 different color rechargeable devices I've owned they all say "Before using your device for the 1st time you must charge it" & they say how long to charge it. What's the big deal, can't people wait 4-5 hours to make sure it's done right ? True, they don't come right out & say it could hurt the battery but they do tell you to charge it before using it for the 1st time & how long that charge should take.

[Windboi]

PaulNB, it must be agonising when waiting for it to charge right

[Windboi]

seems the record now is 5:52....

[clie_lover33]

I got 4:41 yesterday, 10 minutes more from my first test, I'll try just one more time
TO ALL TESTERS, REMEMBER TO PUT BACKLIGHT AT MAX SO WE GET COMPARABLE CONDITIONS

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by Windboi
PaulNB, it must be agonising when waiting for it to charge right

I was counting the minutes & boy did I get pi$$ed off when it took longer than 4 hours. I kept going into the room where it was charging & seeing the amber light over & over. But I had no desire to potentially shorten battery life due to impatience so I waited it out.

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by clie_lover33
I got 4:41 yesterday, 10 minutes more from my first test, I'll try just one more time
TO ALL TESTERS, REMEMBER TO PUT BACKLIGHT AT MAX SO WE GET COMPARABLE CONDITIONS

What does the Palm bench program do anyway ? Just keep the unit from powering off ? And is everyone who is reporting their time using Palm bench because if not you also have to account for how much people are using the memory stick as that also has an effect on your usage. Not to mention how loud people have their volume set, how much gaming they do, etc etc. I'd say that the results are coming out fairly similiar based on what I've read here. Now if some of you can learn to live with less brightness you can be even happier, it's not that hard to get used to, honest! :)

[Mastervtec]

Well, as stated in the very first post it asks that everyone uses palm bench software, so theres the answer to that. And, no one is doing anything with the clie while the test is running, it just sits there and counts the time, so no other factors have to be accounted for the test, (i.e. volume, gaming, memory stick usage etc, etc, etc...). And yes the palm bench makes the unit not power off and it counts the time.

[Mastervtec]

I did this test on my clie's so you all could compare, I have the T665 and the N760. Here are the results:

T665 (I had the brightness all the way down, contrary to everyone else, but I just did this cause this is how I use it):
4 hours 12 minutes and 24 sec.

N760 (brightness all the way up): 3 hours 28 minutes and 12 sec.

Guess my N760 battery is running a bit low?!! Oh well, still works.

[Unregistered]

Hi All: In the back of the SJ33 says that the battery is DC 5.2 V 800 mh.

Using the Battery Log the highest volt I have seen is 4.12

Today I noticed that it was jumping back and forward form 91% to 93% or 94% and the volts were changing as well.

Has anyone seen the 5.2 Volts in their machine?.

If my SJ33 never reached the 5.2 Volts I will get the right amount of battery time?

Bye.

DRSJ33

[PaulNB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unregistered
[B]Hi All: In the back of the SJ33 says that the battery is DC 5.2 V 800 mh.

Using the Battery Log the highest volt I have seen is 4.12

Today I noticed that it was jumping back and forward form 91% to 93% or 94% and the volts were changing as well.

Has anyone seen the 5.2 Volts in their machine?.

The highest I've ever seen with a full charge is 4.24volts. The same thing used to happen with my N760 which was also a 5.2V battery. I've always wondered why it doesn't actually reach 5.2 but I assumed there's a reason it doesn't. I'm getting what they claim for battery life so I assume things are OK.

[PaulNB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mastervtec
[B]Well, as stated in the very first post it asks that everyone uses palm bench software, so theres the answer to that.

You honestly believe people always do what they're told/asked to do ? ;) Assuming everyone was using it (Palmbench) then the results should be exactly the same shouldn't they ?

[Mastervtec]

Originally posted by PaulNB
[
You honestly believe people always do what they're told/asked to do ? ;) Assuming everyone was using it (Palmbench) then the results should be exactly the same shouldn't they ?

Actually, anyone with common sense would use what is asked to be used, in this case palmbench. And, no the results will never be the *exact* same, every machine is different, just like every blasted human is different. Thanks;)

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by Mastervtec


Actually, anyone with common sense would use what is asked to be used, in this case palmbench. And, no the results will never be the *exact* same, every machine is different, just like every blasted human is different. Thanks;)

Wouldn't common sense also dictate that you actually report battery life for the requested device as well ? (rather than what you happen to own) :p

[Mastervtec]

I stated in my post that that was for comparison dumb A$$

[Andyvan]

For comparison purposes:

N610C: 3:52 until it turned off at 15% battery

Note: I'm pretty sure that an N610C at full brightness is dimmer than most of the newer models.

-- Andyvan

[PaulNB]

Originally posted by Mastervtec
I stated in my post that that was for comparison dumb A$$

And you made my point as you didn't do what was asked, did you ?(read the thread title SLOWLY & carefully if you don't get it)

You really have an attitude problem clearly established by various posts (your haha comment regarding the SJ33 not being a glorified T.V. remote was particularly brilliant) & considering you don't even own an SJ33 why are you even commenting on it & reading a forum specifically devoted to it's series ? Thank god for those little ignore options in the control panel, I'll use it from now on so you can continue with your slamming of the SJ33 without my participation.

[Mastervtec]

Guess what, if you read all my posts, you will see that I did own the SJ33 for a week:) These forums are not meant for clie users to stick to just one forum, they are for help and expressing opinions. You clearly are the one with the attitude problem and are going to be considered a troll in no time, no one will pay any attention to your posts<<<<Except for me, cause I already hate you and I like arguing with you;)

[exppcguy]

I finally got around to it.

With Palm Bench, Backlight on full - 5 hours even on my SJ33.

[skyduck]

i just performed the battery test with the palm benchmark program.
i got 5 hours and 12 minutes with the backlight in full brightness and the memory slot empty and the battery has 10% power remaining.
i guess i am happy with the result. ^^

[AcuraCL]

4:52:07 @ 100% backlight ... remembered to pop the MS out after about an hour, so /maybe/ I'd have squeezed a few minutes more out if I had pulled the MS out before starting. Plus I charged last night, but didn't start the test til this morning.

Not too shabby.

Seems like much less day by day ... but I do run a lot of stuff from MS, databases and such. And I play a shameful amount of Bejeweled and BubblePop.

I think all the talk about "shortening battery life" by using prior to a full charge is just paranoia. I used the lil sucker right outta the box for a few hours before leaving it alone to charge. Li-Ion batteries have no memory effect whatsoever. It will just /perhaps/ take a bit longer for them to hit their optimum if you don't do full charge-full discharge several times. I didn't learn that 'til I got the Nokia phone anyway.

[strider_mt2k]

I ordered an SJ33 this weekend and hope to have it before the end of the week.
I'm really glad I read this thread! I would've turned the thing on right away otherwise!

I'll report my results when everything is up and running.

[strider_mt2k]

Okay, mine came in at 4:38:12 just as asked, 100% brightness, MS out.

In normal operation, I run the backlight at about 25%.
It's a very impressive display.

[AcuraCL]

Originally posted by strider_mt2k
Okay, mine came in at 4:38:12 just as asked, 100% brightness, MS out.

In normal operation, I run the backlight at about 25%.
It's a very impressive display.

After a few full charge-discharge cycles (meaning, it's good to charge fully then discharge fully for the first 3-4 times) you should hit "optimum" charge.

Glad you like it so far. It's a great unit.

[strider_mt2k]

Cool advice, thanks!

[sigelang]

The amber light stays on even for more than 8 Hours.

[Sid]

Originally posted by AcuraCL


After a few full charge-discharge cycles (meaning, it's good to charge fully then discharge fully for the first 3-4 times) you should hit "optimum" charge.

Glad you like it so far. It's a great unit.

It's my understanding that the type of battery in the modern handhelds, Lithium Ion Polymer, "prefer" to stay topped off and that there is no memory affect as in other types of batteries. So the "deep discharge" can actually be detrimental to the life of the Li battery.

Anyone else?

[strider_mt2k]

I haven't gone below 50% since the test.
My research has shown the same thing about the batteries.

[Sid]

After I posted, I went looking for an old link I had to a website that did a good job explaining the "new" Li poly batteries (it was when the Palm m500/505 had just come out) but the link is dead now. I guess the topic could be Googled.

[EDIT]
Here's the explanation I saved to text when the m500 series came out, but the battery is the same type use in the SJ33:

Originally from: http://www.pstec.de/ppp/pppm505/pppm505.html

Only because I keep reading alot of nonsense about it, here's a brief introduction to LiIon batteries: Lithium Ion (Polymer or not) batteries don't have any memory effect. Recharging them anytime doesn't harm. In fact, its even better than running them down all the way. A special little circuit that's added already by the battery manufacturer and mostly contained directly in the battery assembly, takes special care that the battery voltage doesn't fall short of a certain minimum value. If that's in store, the circuit virtually breaks the connection (electronically) with the battery totally. Not even the current for data retension is supplied then. This break can only be resetted by a current in the opposite direction, in other words if the battery is charged. No panic, the PalmOS takes enough care of the situation. A LiIon powered Palm can't be switched on long before that absolute minimum battery voltage level is reached. But nevertheless, you shouldn't forget an already empty Palm with LiIon battery in any corner for a longer time. Not only that you'll loose all your data, but after a long enough time the battery voltage will still drop below that minimum level due to self-discharge. And that damages a LiIon battery much more than other battery technologies. A LiIon cell that drops only once below its minimum voltage can loose 50% of its capacity right away and the damage is permanent. On the other hand, LiIon batteries can be maintained quite easily. LiIon batteries are not charged with a constant current like NiMHs or NiCads, neither do they need a nifty management to detect a battery-full situation to protect them from overcharge. LiIon cells are charged with a manufacturer specified constant voltage and when a they become full, they automatically don't draw any more current because the cell voltage reaches the charge voltage. In practice the situation is a bit more complicated. If a LiIon cell is empty enough, it would consume too much current in the beginning of the charge process. The charger has to limit the current to a cell specific maximum then. So in fact, a LiIon charge cycle is a mix of constant current first, constant voltage later. Another difficulty is the accuracy. The accuracy of the charge voltage has to be better than 1%. But the important feature is the nearly no current flow situation when the battery is full. That means basically, that you can leave an m500 in the cradle forever without damaging the battery. It means also, that the earlier you recharge the battery, the less current is flowing into the battery and the lesser wear you have in the cell. Of course you would charge the battery more often then, which balances out. But the bottom line is, that the lifetime of a LiIon cell is not that much dependent on the number of charge cycles, but on the total energy flowing in and out of the cell. If a LiIon battery is specified with a lifetime of 500 cycles, that means full cycles. If you always discharge the battery only half and recharge it then, you'll get 1000 of these cycles ... roughly at least. So, recharge your m500 or m505 whenever you have a chance to do so, it doesn't hurt. And after all, a full battery also gives a good feeling, doesn' it :)? Oh, a last word: LiIon batteries don't like heat nor cold. So never leave your Palm on the dashboard of your car or in other places where the temperature exceeds 60 degrees celcius or falls below -10 degrees celcius. That's the official operating temperature range of the LiIon Polymer battery used in the m500 series._

[AcuraCL]

Originally posted by Sid


It's my understanding that the type of battery in the modern handhelds, Lithium Ion Polymer, "prefer" to stay topped off and that there is no memory affect as in other types of batteries. So the "deep discharge" can actually be detrimental to the life of the Li battery.

Anyone else?

This advice came right out of my Nokia manual (new model 3560) which also uses a Li-Ion polymer battery. It's not a function of preventing memory effect. It's what they recommend to achieve optimum capacity. I suppose the piddle away a bit, charge it back up a bit method will eventually provide optimum capacity ... but their recommendation is to achieve it relatively quickly. Comprende?

[strider_mt2k]

Excellent article!
Words to live by.

[AcuraCL]

Just happened to have a pdf of the manual on my desktop:
"Charge the new battery for three hours before using. Use the battery until it is fully discharged. You should do this for a total of three charging cycles. After the first charge, you can make and receive calls during the charging cycle, but the calls interrupt the charge. When a call ends, the charge will resume. "

[Sid]

Originally posted by AcuraCL
Just happened to have a pdf of the manual on my desktop:
"Charge the new battery for three hours before using. Use the battery until it is fully discharged. You should do this for a total of three charging cycles. After the first charge, you can make and receive calls during the charging cycle, but the calls interrupt the charge. When a call ends, the charge will resume. "

I'm not trying to dispute what your Nokia manual says. Are there similar instructions in the SJ33 manual?
Everything I've read about the LiIo polymer batteries as used in PDAs support what is said in the long article I posted.

I'd be happy to hear a definitive answer from someone more knowledgeable than I am. :)

[AcuraCL]

*shaking head and walking away*
Never mind. If you want to believe that Lithium Ion polymer batteries differ between phones and PDAs, well, go ahead. I give up.
I have no idea who the yahoo who wrote that article is. I do know who Nokia is. I think I'll believe them.

[strider_mt2k]

Lithium Ion Batteries like to be kept topped up.

The only reason I can think of for Nokia having those instructions is possibly so that the charging circuitry in the phone can calibrate itself to it's particular battery.

It doesn't matter what device it's in, any battery has characteristics and ways to be treated properly.

[Miknitro]

My newer nokia an older nokia have THE same blurb about thier batteries in both instruction manuals.(one is NiMh and other is Li-Ion)

Hence it IS wrong.

Do not dis-charge your Li-Ion to extremely low levels often or damage WILL result.(shortened battery capacity)

The nokia first put that in print for thier ni-cads an have not updated thier manuals for the north american market.