palmOne formally announces the LifeDrive

[Joel]

It's finally official. palmOne has revealed the LifeDrive. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1051)]

[jamester]

Looks good - can't wait to give it a better look in the morning. BlueTooth AND WI-FI - way to go, P1!!

[pippadid]

Hi, just tried to order and they are saying 7 to 14 day delay. Anyone else get this response from PalmOne???? Thanks, cindy.

[poissonsouriant]

Yes, because it has to be shipped directly from PalmOne. Apparently the "PalmOne store" is not officially a part of PalmOne. :(

[PDASpecialists]

It said that from the very begining on the order page. It will be interesting to see if any stores have them in stock.

[pippadid]

Bummer, :rolleyes: I didn't order yet because I thought it may be out in stores (Staples, Circuit City, etc.) before that. What do ya think?

[Joel]

It should be out in stores. Way out here in Guam, our best option is to get from palmOne... if I order now, the wait time is 14 days at best ;)

[poissonsouriant]

Bummer, :rolleyes: I didn't order yet because I thought it may be out in stores (Staples, Circuit City, etc.) before that. What do ya think?

Staples will not be getting them in for a while. We're usually about a week or two late in getting new PDA's

[Antoine]

One more review to report: http://www.bargainpda.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8987

[wshwe]

Big yawn! No real innovation here.

[Reggie]

Big yawn! No real innovation here.
That means you were not part of the target market. ;)

[davespda]

It is expect the device won't be available in full force until June. And yes, this device is very much for a media savy person...but that why PalmOne started this new line of products.

Also, I put together a couple articles about some of the features:
http://www.davespda.com/special/lifedrive/index.htm

Dave

[GadgetGuru]

64MB, 1660 mAh battery...it seems Palmone pushed all the right buttons with this one...

[lajandy]

One more review to report: http://www.bargainpda.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8987

Frankly, especially for those of of us that are "Zen of Palm" kind of people (and why else would you be on 1src.com?), BargainPDA's review of the LifeDrive is BAD. Slower than the T5, mysterious multisecond waits (there's a reason Palm OS has no hourglass icon), the battery life of a T3. And the big things that would make non-Palm-loyalists buy it (HD capacity, music, video) all have big gotchas. The HD is large(r than most SD cards), but is responsible for the slowness and short battery life, and can't be easily backed up without a PC. Switching between music tracks is slow, and video playback stutters (or drops out entirely) in places. You wouldn't seriously consider buying this as a music or video player at this price point.

The reviewer did like the no-hassle WiFi setup, and did have a good experience with TomeRaider and the ~500MB text version of Wikipedia. They also mentioned the Bluetooth setup hasn't changed, which should mean it's pretty troublefree, too. But I just can't believe this thing is so slow, and does so poorly in the multimedia department, and costs $500.

[lajandy]

PocketFactory's review is here (http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/05/review_palmone_3.php)

[JAmerican]

The LifeDrive doesn't interest me due to the excitement is gone. Plus NO KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!

JAmerican

[IsLNdbOi]

So it has 16MB of ROM. How much RAM does it have for Palm Apps. or are Palm Apps. now run from the ~4GB hard drive?

Edit:

Never mind, I just read some reviews and it has 65MB of RAM.

[lmame]

Well datasheet was interesting, the thing I found quite "suspect" is that PalmOne wasn't speaking anywhere about the autonomy, so I had some doubts...

Now I see I was right... 4 hours MP3 playback screen of... :confused: That's really bad, really really bad...
It seems the microdrive is draining the battery off, despite its capacity...
The NX70V was able to play MP3 (on CF or MS) for nearly 3 hours, maximum volume, screen on, luminosity on maximum...
The UX50 was able to play MP3 (same situation) for 4 hours... And I don't speak of the VZ :D
Now if you shutdown the screen, you can imagine the rest :)
On the VZ it's really really really more...

Now, when I read the first reviews, I see choppy videos, lag times when browsing and launching softwares (like "old IPAQ....), a PDA less powerful than the T5 or TC, a "brick" in size and weight... My...

SOooooo... Well... What's the point... I don't know, I was quite interested at first... now... I guess I'll test it myself in shops, but I guess I'll stick on the UX and VZ (I got 3 Go on CF, CF 2 Go and MS 1 Go)... It's not the same price of course, but the autonomy is not that lame and video / audio playback is perfect (and UX has keyboard)...

I guess the Life Drive is not a bad PDA for PalmOne, Wifi, Bluetooth, 4 BG microdrive, 64 Mo RAM (why not more, because then the autonomy would have been even worse), not too expensive but I guess it would have been a bad Clie...

Well, I guess I understand why people say in English " Life Sucks..." :)

[Joel]

It is expect the device won't be available in full force until June. And yes, this device is very much for a media savy person...but that why PalmOne started this new line of products.

Also, I put together a couple articles about some of the features:
http://www.davespda.com/special/lifedrive/index.htm

Dave

Welcome to 1src, Dave. Your review is being added to the reviews round-up! Thanks :)

[Joel]

PocketFactory's review is here (http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/05/review_palmone_3.php)

Welcome, lajandy. PocketFactory's review has been added as well.

[JulianL]

Oh dear. Nice try, but Palm have really missed the mark here, at least as far as I am concerned. Maybe the next generation or the one after might work for me.

From the BargainPDA review, moderate use test (screen to max, some WiFi, some drive use, some music): 2 hours 50 minutes battery life. For anyone who travels that's just not going to cut it. Personally I think that they're a factor of 3 away from what I would consider OK battery life. I'd rather save up, wait for flash memory prices to drop a bit, and buy a 4GB memory stick for my TH55.

I really hope that some exotic battery and/or fuel cell technologies will hit the PDA market soon. Even if they do though, I also think that Palm need to get the device back to shirt-pocket size, i.e. T5 size. Lets hope that the extra thickness is just a first-generation thing. At least there is also the ipod & other MP3 hard drive players contributing volume to the microdrive business and giving manufacturers an incentive to produce ever smaller, higher capacity and more power-efficient hard drives.

- Julian

[lajandy]

I've been reading a couple of the reviews here, and something(s) doesn't match up. The BargainPDA article pointed out the slowness of the device, but in Dave's review the speed doesn't sound that bad. And Sammy over at PalmAddict just loved it (http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2005/05/sammys_lifedriv.html), and said it was fast. And MobileTechReview's review (http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmone-LifeDrive.htm) mentions that audio playback only stutters occasionally when you're switching applications. MTR says they had no problems with audio when PocketTunes was running by itself, and with the screen off, the battery lasted for 6 hours.

What I noticed also, was that BargainPDA lists the OS version as Palm OS Garnet 5.4.0.3.23 (I think I got all the decimals in there). Dave says his device is OS 5.4.8, as does MTR. I'm wondering if BargainPDA (and possibly others) got review units with older (beta?) software that wasn't optimized?

[Joel]

Quite possibly multiple test units, lajandy. The "true" reviews will come from the users as they post their experiences with the retail units. I'm actually quite curious about the user reviews later on, as 1src has a fair share of Palm power users.

[Adrenochrome]

I've been reading a couple of the reviews here, and something(s) doesn't match up. The BargainPDA article pointed out the slowness of the device, but in Dave's review the speed doesn't sound that bad. And Sammy over at PalmAddict just loved it (http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2005/05/sammys_lifedriv.html), and said it was fast. And MobileTechReview's review (http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmone-LifeDrive.htm) mentions that audio playback only stutters occasionally when you're switching applications. MTR says they had no problems with audio when PocketTunes was running by itself, and with the screen off, the battery lasted for 6 hours.

What I noticed also, was that BargainPDA lists the OS version as Palm OS Garnet 5.4.0.3.23 (I think I got all the decimals in there). Dave says his device is OS 5.4.8, as does MTR. I'm wondering if BargainPDA (and possibly others) got review units with older (beta?) software that wasn't optimized?
I've been noticing the same thing. After reading the B-PDA review, I was really disappointed. The whole article has a negative undertone to it, whereas other reviews seem to have positive undertones, as if people are looking for reasons to like/dislike it.

One thing I'd like to know is how the thing runs with an SD card in it. If applications are saved to the SD card instead of the HD, does performance improve?

[Adrenochrome]

The PalmAddict review is a little difficult to read. He has one sentence that runs a couple hundred words, and uses the word "fantastic" 34 times. But the point comes across - he didn't find the lag a much of a distraction.

[Adrenochrome]

And I also think something may be amiss with BargainPDA's review - he said it would take 46 minutes to transfer 4 Gb from PC to LD. USB 2.0 has got to be way, way faster than that, and I can't see a hard drive being that slow. Something is wrong...

[junglemike]

Trully astonishing reviewat bargainpda from someone who owns LD for a week. I read other reviews also, but those seem little "empy" to me Not that i intend to buy LD in the nearest feature, but couple of things I'm worried about:

Any form of hard-reset will erase the entire contents of the hard drive, without exception. When you issue the command for a hard reset, you're given two options: a fast erase that takes 5 minutes, and a "secure erase" that takes 30 minutes
With such a huge hard drive, and w/o a backup option..... Why to erase entire drive?

Playing music from the microdrive, screen set to automatic off, moderate skipping, no wireless...4hours, 20 minutes

Moderate Use Test Screen brightness set to maximum, some use of drive mode, some WiFi, some music.........3 hours, 37 minutes

WiFi Test . Screen brightness set to maximum, WiFi active, no deliberate use of microdrive.........2 hours, 50 minutes

Video Test.Playing video from microdrive. No wireless was active.
1 hour, 44 minutes

Torture Test Nearly continuous use of the microdrive, along with maximum brightness, Bluetooth, and WiFi.
1 hour, 13 minutes
If this is correct - LD is a leader on lowest battery life , even worse than T3. Just imagine how it would look like after 1.5 years of use...

In the place where most devices would feature RAM, the Lifedrive offers an area labeled "program memory." While I've been unable to get an answer out of PalmOne's PR reps, I'm virtually certain that the "program memory" is actually a partition on the hard drive, rather than being solid-state flash memory, as on previous models. This means that whenever you load an application, you're activating the hard drive. Even if the application is on an SD card, the hard drive spins up, though I'm not sure why--perhaps because PalmOS is hardwired to copy an application to program memory, which was originally RAM, before running it.
If this true - this is VERY BAD. If P1 had saved 0.02$ and removed program storage memory (even flash one) COMPLETELY - they've done biggest mistake ever. I thought that it would at least feature some 64mb of real ram, or at least flash ram, as on T5, meaning that most of the work you don on your pda doesn't require to use hard drive. And the drive is only used when you watch video/play music.
But if hard drive spins EVERY SINGLE TIME when you launch every application, even PIM - this will result in slowdowns, and unexcusable battery life.
1660Mah is indeed big battery. But with HDD spinning all the time...........
Just for comparison: Ipods cash about 25 minutes worth of music playback. So if you don't skip too much, hdd in ipod works only 1/10 of the time, or less.

I just hope that some of these things are not right, or that P1 will quickly come with some fixes. I just want the palm to succeed and stay on the market.

[Adrenochrome]

And this from the Mobile Tech Review review:

"In addition to the drive, the LifeDrive has 64 megs of RAM which functions just as RAM does on other PDAs: you can store programs and data in this area, and applications which only support syncing to main memory should be stored in this area. Like most other PDAs but unlike the recent Tungsten T5, Tungsten E2 and Treo 650, this area is volatile RAM which means if the battery runs completely dry the contents will be wiped out."

The BargainPDA review said specifically that this RAM was from the HD, not it's own RAM. Hmm...

[THX-1138]

Be glad with what you currently own. Unless you have a unique need for what PalmeOne offers in it's new PDA then just let it go, no need to be upset, no body is making us buy this device. For those who are still interested just wait to read the reviews from people who gave their own money, wait until it settles into their daily life, they will tell us if it is really worth it or not for your needs. Personally I see no reason to upgrade at this moment since my TH55 gives me much more than I can hope to use.

Enjoy what you have.

[junglemike]

"In addition to the drive, the LifeDrive has 64 megs of RAM which functions just as RAM does on other PDAs: you can store programs and data in this area, and applications which only support syncing to main memory should be stored in this area. Like most other PDAs but unlike the recent Tungsten T5, Tungsten E2 and Treo 650, this area is volatile RAM which means if the battery runs completely dry the contents will be wiped out."
This is even less believable than BargainPda review. Because P1 stopped using fast Real Dram long ago since T3 and TC. The reason is obviouse - Dram is very expensive. So it's hard to believe that P1 included 64 of REAL Dram, while they didn't even include a cradle. And where's the lags and hdd problems come from than?
I think Real ram option - is out of the question. It's either Flash ram (in better case) or hdd partition (in worst case)

[Adrenochrome]

This is even less believable than BargainPda review. Because P1 stopped using fast Real Dram long ago since T3 and TC. The reason is obviouse - Dram is very expensive. So it's hard to believe that P1 included 64 of REAL Dram, while they didn't even include a cradle. And where's the lags and hdd problems come from than?
I think Real ram option - is out of the question. It's either Flash ram (in better case) or hdd partition (in worst case)
There has to be some kind of RAM. Programs aren't running within the hard drive.

There are other inconsistencies in the MobileTech/B-PDA reviews. MT said they could interrupt an HD file transfer, whereas BargainPDA said he couldn't.

[Adrenochrome]

Also, B-PDA got a bit over 3 hours of MP3 playback, while MT got 6 hours.

Something does not jibe here...

[tonyreynolds]

:confused:

If there's no real RAM, I'm not buying...

As mentioned before, if the HD needs to be accessed every time data is called by an app, then the battery drain will be horrific.

If this is supposed to be a digicam companion, how come ONLY SD? My cameras use CF...

Palm OS can address 128MB of RAM. For the price of this device and it's place at the pinnacle of the current Palm heap, it should have at least 64MB. Heck, my Toshiba e550G has 64MB of RAM, and it's three years old. Yeah, my TH55 only has 32MB of RAM, but with ZLauncher, my "RAM" is really pretty much the size of my Memory Stick.

There is one thing and only one thing that would perhaps MAYBE make me take a look at this PDA, and that's native Active Sync for Outlook. Other than that, my TH55 with 18-20 hours of battery life (with the screen turned off) is looking better and better.

I think I'll save the dough, get a backup TH55 and a 2GB Memory Stick...

:(

Tony

[Adrenochrome]

I think I understand what the RAM situation is, pieced together from various reviews.

There is 32mb of real RAM. But this is not allocated the same way as it is in normal palms. You can store 64mb of programs on the LD - these will probably be officially stored on the HD and copied to the 32mb of real RAM when needed. That sounds awful, but it may not be so bad because 32mb is still a lot of room for any palm program to wiggle. In fact, it and the last five programs you used, and the next five you're likely to use, will all be cached in that 32mb, ready to fly.

The proof is in the pudding. I'm not going to endorse or dismiss the LD until I hear from some people using it in the real world.

[winexprt]

Be glad with what you currently own. Unless you have a unique need for what PalmeOne offers in it's new PDA then just let it go, no need to be upset, no body is making us buy this device. For those who are still interested just wait to read the reviews from people who gave their own money, wait until it settles into their daily life, they will tell us if it is really worth it or not for your needs. Personally I see no reason to upgrade at this moment since my TH55 gives me much more than I can hope to use.

Enjoy what you have.

GREAT POST! Couldn't agree more. You crystalized my thoughts exactly.
:)

Looks like I will be enjoying my TH55 for a while to come. Nothing out (so far) has even come CLOSE to being a worthy replacement (LifeDrive?...PLEEEZE :rolleyes: ) for the PDA perfection that is the TH55. At this point, observing the direction palmOne is going...I doubt there will EVER be one.

[JulianL]

After reading a sentence from one review, which I will assume for the sake of argument is accurate, I really get the feeling that PalmOne weren't adventurous enough with this new device.

In the PCMag review (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1817008,00.asp) they say (talking about the hard drive) "The advantage here is price: 4GB Microdrives currently sell for as little as $169, according to dealram.com, while 4GB CompactFlash modules cost $279 and up". Well, this gives me some data to reinforce an idea I've been contemplating for a long time as to what I would put in my ideal PDA if I got to design it. I assume that some of the cost in a CompactFlash module is the plastic that goes around the electronics, the connectors, etc. I bet that if PalmOne had gone to the memory manufacturer itself and sourced just the chip(s) to be surface mounted onto the Palm main circuit board then this $110 cost differential would have been reduced, it wouldn't suprise me if they could have shaved $50 or more off it. I personally would have been much more excited about a device, even if it was $100 more, if it had the 4GB implemented as Flash so that they could keep the thickness down to T5/TE levels and offer a decent battery life. For me that would be the killer device.

- Julian

[istara]

I played around with one yesterday. It's nice (MMPlayer works on it btw) but if you already have a T5, probably not worth the upgrade, unless you want the digital-photos back up thing (eg while on holiday). It's not so big/bulky as I had been warned.

It's great to have internal wifi at last (or to have it *again* at last).

Where this device is going to fall down is no camera. Not even a VGA one. If its only photo capability is acting as back up storage for a separate digital camera, then IMO it is not a truly multimedia device.

I played around with a prototype so I don't know what the final bundled software is like, but I am not sure they have gone the distance and found/made a Flash .swf player and/or a RealVideo player. Again, to be a truly multimedia device, that would have been nice.

[tonyreynolds]

Where this device is going to fall down is no camera. Not even a VGA one. If its only photo capability is acting as back up storage for a separate digital camera, then IMO it is not a truly multimedia device.

I agree totally.

If this is truly a multimedia device for everything in my life, why does that NOT include the ability to record visual notes, which is what an included VGA camera would be used for, and what I use the camera in the TH55 for. How much extra would it have cost to include the camera from the Zire 72? $25? $50 $75. I would gladly pay the extra cost.

:(

[markgm]

How in the world does palm release a device with no jog dial? Two steps forward, one stop back. And no cradle? Sheesh. It's like they do everything in their power to come just short of the perfect device.

[bucalo9]

I agree totally.

If this is truly a multimedia device for everything in my life, why does that NOT include the ability to record visual notes, which is what an included VGA camera would be used for, and what I use the camera in the TH55 for. How much extra would it have cost to include the camera from the Zire 72? $25? $50 $75. I would gladly pay the extra cost.

:(
I also totally agree. If one could just add a hard drive to a TH55, the PDA that would make would be much better than this LifeDrive. The combination of camera and the FreeNotes, all the integration with the other PIM progs and email, really make a diff to me. Going from a TH55 to this almost seems like taking a step backwards. Although I think I would see a speed improvement, even if the LifeDrive is measurable slower than a T5.

[Sid]

I'm glad my T3 (the last good Palm PDA) is still working great and meeting my needs. The T5 was beneath consideration and the LifeDrive is overpriced and unproven (IMO), bring it in at $400 even. Also, this product could have been released 6 months to 1 year ago, the affordable technology existed then. What's with Palm?

[alexasha]

what about backup of this device. How in the world we can back it up with Backupman?

[timepilot84]

... from CompUSA. They've got it in and are holding one for me. I'll report back when I've played with it for a bit.

[Ezikial Anta]

Uhm...
Guess you could partition 4 Gig of your hard drive and make a copy of everything that you put on the hard drive and drop it in there?
I guess you really dont back something like this up...

[darkdalo]

Sorry But, this LifeDrive sucks. No camera??, No PalmOS6??, a noisy and dangerously fragil HardDisk?? I think palmone is making another misktake like T5 and even Expensive!. But for my happiness, my TH55 still the best one!

[foghead]

Sorry But, this LifeDrive sucks. No camera??, No PalmOS6??, a noisy and dangerously fragil HardDisk?? I think palmone is making another misktake like T5 and even Expensive!. But for my happiness, my TH55 still the best one!
Pretty strong words based on the fact that you've never used one.

[volcanopele]

I was really getting excited about this device, and was starting to save up to buy it, until I saw this in the Bargain PDA review:

"Unfortunately, there's one other hitch to the whole microdrive deal. Any form of hard-reset will erase the entire contents of the hard drive, without exception. When you issue the command for a hard reset, you're given two options: a fast erase that takes 5 minutes, and a "secure erase" that takes 30 minutes. Given that the Lifedrive has government-use security certification, a secure erase presumably entails zeroing out all the data on the drive so that it can't be restored or recovered. Either way, you can't simply reset the device and expect to have your files waiting when it boots. And the days of being able to restore from a hard reset with a single HotSync are over. The very nature of the LD's storage capacity renders moot any idea of backing up to an SD card, which could hold at most a quarter to a half of the drive's capacity."

:eek: I can forgive size. I have an NX80V and am willing to trade size for functionality since I often wear cargo pants with large side pockets. So size isn't a concern. I can forgive price. Yes, it will take me longer to save up, but given the importance in my life I have placed for these devices, I feel it is worth the wait. I can forgive minor issues with buttons or note blanking out the screen because, the one program I would need it for, PocketTuens, comes with this functionality built in. But this issue of having the device so intrinically tied to the hard drive is a serious problem. My impression going in was that the microdrive worked essentially as a built-in expansion card, which sounded like a great idea. But having it in place of RAM and thus subject to the same hard reset wiping is a huge problem.

[Hari Seldon]

I am coming at this as a PPC convert so I am biased, but the LifeDrive seems like an interesting concept with horrible execution. I think installing a microdrive in the chassis permanently is silly. If they had built the same device, nixed the microdrive preinstalled, but added a CFII slot it would have been much better in my opinion (although it probably wouldn't make sense to call it the LifeDrive then). Then you could add whatever size microdrive you wanted, or go solid state, or use CF peripherals, or use it as a REAL complement to your digital camera, as many use CF and not SD.

When it comes to the battery life during media playback it will probably get much better in the future on the LifeDrive. In the PPC world, almost every audio/video player has a microdrive mode where if you are using a microdrive you can set the program to cache whatever amount of data amount you select to an SD card or main memory and read from there, instead of spinning up the hard drive almost constantly. I wouldn't be surprised if Palm OS media products add this feature due to the LifeDrive. PPC models have had CF slots for so long that that it is already there.

At least P1 finally realized that to be taken seriously they need a device with Bluetooth and Wifi. This might help stem somewhat the flow of users to PPC devices, at least until WM2005, which, unlike Cobalt, will ACTUALLY BE USED.