Upgrading to LifeDrive?

[mareuter]

I thought this might be a good first thread (well, second really) for the new forum.

If you will be ordering a LifeDrive in the first weeks its available (making you an early adopter), what will you be upgrading from and why?

Personally, I'll be upgrading from a T|C (probably as soon as the order page is up). My reasons are:
1. I won't be able to get rid of my iPod completely, but I'll be able to have a number of my favorite albums with me at all times (I'm often without my iPod);
2. I've got a 19 month old son and another baby on the way, so my only time to read is at night. I'm an avid reader and have gotten used to reading eBooks once all the lights are out, so the larger screen (and landscape) is very attractive;
3. I've got +50MB of photos and another +100MB of eBooks that I'd like to be able to have at my fingertips rather than spread across a couple of SD cards. Plus, I've had some crash/corruption issues with SD so I'd like to get away from them completely;
4. I can write it off as a business expense... ;-)

Cons: I'll miss the keyboard, I'm pretty sure.

Mike

[clie_wannabe]

i just got myself a Clie VZ90 last January - and i dont think my wife would sign my "purchase order request"...

i guess, for me, would just have to wait until the second-or-third-generation Life Drive comes out (around next year)...

[LexLuther]

The LD is pro bably exactly what I want but I upgraded from the venerable M515 just a few months ago to a T3 (just before the T5 came out). I wanted a voice recorder so the choice was both hard and easy. Since I have a wifi home network I would love not having to always pop in the sd card. But again the "purchase request" might fail - "what do you need another for?". However, I have a big payout coming from work (ie unemployment!@$#%) so maybe I will need some P1 therapy to keep me happy ;)
I do like the slider in some ways but i have to say it was not really well done - a bit slack and loose - but cool to open. Anyway, I would also love to have a LD that has the same size hard drive as my wife's laptop. As for a replacement for usb keys I don't think so, but as a place to carry my life? DEFINATELY. Whatever anyone says this is actually a good name and people will be surprised how well this sells just because of that. Okay is isn't the techiest name but it will appeal to the masses. ANd isn't that what we all want, a P1 in every hand?

[FrankG]

If it had a camera, definitely.... and I'd promise to keep it for at least a year.

Frank
IIIx -> N610 -> NR70V -> NX60 -> NR70V -> NX70V -> T3 -> Z72 ->next stop where? Treo 650 or LD??? :)

[xyeta]

Been waiting for a reason to upgrade from my NX80V... I now have a reason!

[mdlsimpson]

I agree, if it had a camera, perfect.... but I am still going to go for one because it has all the other features I want in a PDA. This thing reminds me so much of a Sony device....hey! rumour time! Did sony have any input in this device? (I wonder if the screen is made by Sharp or Sony? I'm sure someone will disassemble one for us!)

[Reggie]

I think that one of PalmOne's target market for the LD is the business sector and a lot of business don't allow bringing in cameras.

[Adrenochrome]

Yup, I'll have one as soon as I am satisfied with the early reviews. I was waiting to upgrade from a Visor Pro when the TH55 appeared, and I thought that was my machine until Sony left. Didn't want to get stuck with MS sticks, and didn't like the slow processor, so I bought a used T2 as a holdover. This LD is exactly what I'm looking for. I use my T2 for everything, all day, and nearly everything I feel is lacking in it, is present in the LD.

I just need to know a bluetooth keyboard can work at the same time as the Wifi connection. Plus it better sound good. But my birthday is in three weeks, (and I'm a dad and a grad this year) so I think I can spend my marital capital and have this puppy in my pocket soon.

[ptmin]

GREAT
From my first palm 515 to Tungsten T3 now am ready for the Live Drive can anyone realy mention the actual battery capacity before i jump on that tomorrow thank for any idea
P

[Funky Gibbon]

I bought my T3 in October 2003 and have used it constantly since that time for work and pleasure. Just yesterday the battery started losing its charge and although this can be resolved temporarily with an in cradle hard reset and recondition, my experience with my old m505 is that once this happens the end of the road is at hand.

While I'll be an early adopter of the LifeDrive in the UK logistics means that many of the biggest problems with the new device should have been discovered by users on the more belligerent side of the Atlantic.

[JustTesting]

Upgrading like others _after_ the first reviews (and possibly once other stores get it and have it cheaper than at Palm). Replacing non-used IIIx and borrowing my wife's E2. Been waiting a long time for this, lets hope they don't dissapoint.

At the rate of mini-HD capacity, I wonder how long before this is just about worthless (like my IIIx is now) since it only holds 4GB. I expect in a year maybe two with the current 40+ GB drives out.

[tonyreynolds]

I agree, if it had a camera, perfect.... but I am still going to go for one because it has all the other features I want in a PDA. This thing reminds me so much of a Sony device....hey! rumour time! Did sony have any input in this device? (I wonder if the screen is made by Sharp or Sony? I'm sure someone will disassemble one for us!)

I agree about the camera ;(

I also agree about Sony. I wanted to post this in another thread, but it didn't seem appropriate...

This thing has SONY ALL OVER IT. It's as if it's a next-gen Clie without the Clie name (or the Memory Stick...)

Tony

[mace2k]

Yes, I'll be buying one.

I went to the dark side (PPC) for a while...and finally got tired of all the lock-ups, data issues, etc... with ALL of the PPCs I've owned. My T|C has NEVER let me down, and I'm looking to the Lifedrive as a replacement for it. Nothing wrong at all with my T|C, I'm just looking for more storage space and a larger screen for reading ebooks.

[Festus440]

I made sure to "warn my wife" in plenty of time :D

[tk_421]

If the LifeDrive had an application to read native PDF files, a way to consult mht files like Netfront (compressed html - saved websites), a camera, and a Flash Player, then it WOULD be a CLIE.

Right now it's still missing too many things to make it a really productive buiseness device. A 500$ device should definitely be able to read native PDF files, don't you think?

If anybody can find a way to make Picsel Viewer and Netfront work in landscape on this device, then I will be buying it FOR SURE. Otherwise I may very well go to the Dark Side (hey! Episode 3 is tomorrow!) and get a PPC, maybe a Toshiba if they release a Windows Mobile 5.0 version.

The Life Drive is like some Ferrari with a Volkswagon engine under the hood. Near perfect hardware, but limited software.

Anyone wants to do a little hacking experiment? I have all the files you woul need, just tell me if interested.

[themax]

I will change out my T3 on the first possible occation. The reason; well the T5 didn't really add anything new to what I needed, but the LD does. I have a 3 year old daughter, and I want to bring movies for her on our family travels. Now I need to switch SD cards all the time, and with the introduction of The Core Movie Player (TCMP) I can copy the files from my computer to my LD without the need of conversion, but I need more space then.

What I also really need, is navigation (TomTom) and it works absolutely great on my T3, but I need more space for maps. So video and navigation will improve my life with more storage space. Well worth the upgrade. I've had the same Palm for almost two years now (the T3) - that's a record for me.

[Stefan Knochenhauer]

Festus... I hear you... I didn't warn my girlfriend early enough... so I will have to wait a while before I can get one... I tried to get her hooked on my old Clié N770 to make it easier to understand what we all love in our PDAs... but it didn't work... anyway, I am looking forward to read all your excellent reviews...

[jdfdc7]

I will be switching to the Lifedrive in a few weeks. Just waiting for a couple of good reviews, making sure there are no major problems.

[stevejohnson460]

...Am thinking about selling self into slavery so I can afford it....

[Ezikial Anta]

I will be coming from a Tapwave Zodiac1, and a Sony NX60 before that.

[poissonsouriant]

I love my T3, but i'm getting tired of the poor battery life and thus nearly unusable WiFi. I have no real need for 4GB of storage, as I don't even fill my 512MB SD, but I figure I can find ways to fill it up.

But WiFi and BT are must haves for me, so I will definitely be getting an LD. I just hope they have it at Staples this week. As an employee, I get a 12% discount. A LifeDrive for $439. Plus, I have around $60 worth of coupons.

[salesrep]

Can't decide between the UK version TH55 with bluetooth or maybe the LifeDrive. I had my T3 for a year and a half and only jumped on the UX50 because of compatibility with my Sony camcorder, but I like the larger screen better like the old T3 and would rather use Graffiti than a microkeyboard anyday.

The Staples stores in the DFW area don't know anything about it. Told me they usually get new stuff a couple of weeks out.

Can't wait to play with it and see for sure!

[dmale7]

My Th55 is almost perfect. It would be nice if it had a 4Gb harddrive, though. I'm not quite ready to 'upgrade' yet. I remember not so long ago that we Clie users wouldn't even consider a Palmone device...at least not me (my wife is committed to Palms) I'm curious to see how things will shake out. Hopefully, My Th55 will hold up until Christmas. I have a feeling something else is coming down the pike.

[tritan]

I thought this might be a good first thread (well, second really) for the new forum.

If you will be ordering a LifeDrive in the first weeks its available (making you an early adopter), what will you be upgrading from and why?

Personally, I'll be upgrading from a T|C (probably as soon as the order page is up). My reasons are:
1. I won't be able to get rid of my iPod completely, but I'll be able to have a number of my favorite albums with me at all times (I'm often without my iPod);
2. I've got a 19 month old son and another baby on the way, so my only time to read is at night. I'm an avid reader and have gotten used to reading eBooks once all the lights are out, so the larger screen (and landscape) is very attractive;
3. I've got +50MB of photos and another +100MB of eBooks that I'd like to be able to have at my fingertips rather than spread across a couple of SD cards. Plus, I've had some crash/corruption issues with SD so I'd like to get away from them completely;
4. I can write it off as a business expense... ;-)

Cons: I'll miss the keyboard, I'm pretty sure.

Mike


I understand what you mean about the keyboard but I am sure they will come out with a keyboard at some point . I will be ordering right away, might check CC tomorrow as there shipments come in on wed or saturdays.

[eaglespot]

Just managed to sell off my TH55. Loved it. Lifedrive, wait for me... I'm coming. :D

[d94]

i dont use my nx60 enough to even consider this :(
i might even be ebaying the thing ~ it seems w/me i get a new pda and only use it for a month before im bored w/it

[harps]

My wife only lets me upgrade every couple of years, but luckly I'm now due for an upgrade again. Currently tossing up between T5 and LifeDrive. All depends on cost and additional specs on offer. Does anyone know what approx cost in Australia will be? Also is their any metric specs available yet?

[Wolfgard]

Geez...for some reason, I'm thinking about replacing my TH55 with a LifeDrive. The specs look too good to pass! I don't really need a camera so it doesn't bother me at all.

I'll get it once P1 bundles it with some freebies AND if the screen doesn't whine.

EDIT: I've changed my mind. 4 hours of mp3 playback and only 1+ hour under the torture test is not enough for me. Thank you Sony for creating the TH55!

[LupeValenz]

Try as you might Palm, but you won't be takin me away from my TH!! Only thing I'm missin is the 4 Gigs of memory, but other than that, it is a lifedrive to me!

[beaune]

Ive been waiting for this for what seems like ever. I have a UX50 so was waiting for something with built in Bluetooth and wifi and a decent sized scsreen. The keyboard thing could be an issue for a while as the writing is quite painful at times, Im sure you know what I mean.
Wonder how long it will be before we are trying to rip the drive out and put in a 60GB unit... But as it has Bluetooth and the PDF on the web site says there is a compatible folding keyboard already, I can see me spending some cash soon... once there has been a solid review.... Bring it on!
Pete

[glassman]

PalmOne is now offering it for sale.

LifeDrive (http://store.palmone.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1999092)

[technical1]

I was just looking at some comments @ Palm Info Center & there seems to be an issue whether or not a Hard Reset (face it, they happen) will wipe 4Gb of data that requires a restore fm a PC.

I always thought that the idea behind a handheld was portability - & that you could restore fm an SD card in the event of a major crash / data loss / corruption etc.

Also, if it truly takes 6 seconds to do things w/the hard drive then I will stick w/my battery dying T3 & hope that Pa1m starts to use their brains more when it comes to being end user friendly - I won't $pend $500 for a 6 second delay on functionality & having to go back to my PC for a full restore. I keep many instances of a full backup on my SD card & this way I don't have to be without my data until I get home - I just do a restore.

Any input on digitizer drift issues & battery life?

BTW, David Pogue, a well known Palm reviewer/writer seems to have doubts that he expressed in the NY Times....

Seems like Pa1m is only interested in building up their coffers rather than earning a following - but what should we expect? They have a monopoly!



Please share your experience.

[LanMan]

Well, I will be waiting to hear real user opinions after they have used the LD for a while. However, my TH55 is just approaching a year old, and I don't see a compeling reason to switch to the LD. Sure 4GB would be nice, but I have used a 128MB MS for a year now, and I'm just now thinking of upgrading it. I believe that MS prices will continue to drop and make the 1GB MS reasonable very soon. So I'm sticking with my venerable TH. Oh yeah, I also have that PO# problem with my wife too. ;)

[acraniotes]

Yeah, I'm probably going to take the plunge. My NX80 is getting a bit long in the tooth (going on 2 years now), and I'd prefer to stay in the Palm camp. The T5 did nothing for me upon its release, and the Zodiac - as impressive a device as it is - also left me a bit cold. I'll admit that I looked for a bit at the iPaq 4700, but I didn't really cotton to the touch pad - and, of course, I'd have to use Windows Mobile.

True, I'll miss the camera and the keyboard (well, more so the keyboard - I rarely take pictures/video with the NX80 anymore), but it's time to move on. The thought of having 4gigs of room on a PDA (along with built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, is truly tempting. We'll see... I've still got some time to cancel my order.

- Adam

[druss]

does anyone know if it has the graffitti like the T5? Where you can use SkinDia? Am looking forward to seeing earily reviews for I am not too happy with the T5 to many resets, fatal, also I did read that this new one is slower loading and has a few bugs, Dr

[valodya]

I'd like to second technical1's concern about hard resets. It sounds like a small issue, and few have mentioned it, but is potentially a deal breaker for me. I've had my share of hard resets over the years, and back in the days of my Palm IIIx (I think that makes me a granddaddy around here), when there was no external, non-volatile storage available, if I had a hard reset at an inopportune time away from my computer, I was SOL with an empty Palm. This did in fact happen to me in places like the Andes of Peru. In fact, I jumped on the Handspring Prism (remember those?) largely because of the option for a backup module.

According to the one review I've read that mentions this issue, a hard reset wipes the hard drive along with RAM. So as they take a big step forward with a 4 gig hard drive, they take a giant leap backwards by making the hard drive useless as a backup medium. And given the size of the drive, it'd be impractical to try to back it up to an SD card. What's the point of non-volatile memory if it won't survive a software crash? You'd think that with a huge hard drive, you'd be able to back up your RAM to it, and restore in the event of disaster, but that's apparently not the case. If the drive is in fact wiped with every hard reset, I think it's a major design flaw. Of course you'd still be SOL if your hard drive crashed, but the hard drive is presumably more stable than RAM. An SD card could fail too.

And on a tangential note, just what would it take to make the hard drive crash? What would happen if you dropped the LD while it was on, or while the drive was spinning? Is the hard drive any less reliable than an SD card?

[Festus440]

I don't feel like doing a hard reset to check it out :)
However I would think...
Since the Palm memory lives on the hard drive, a hard reset should wipe that part of the hard drive that holds that memory. That's the purpose of a hard reset. To put things back to like it came out of the box.

I would be really suprised if a hard reset wipes the whole 4 gig since it looks like a memory card to the system.

I would think if you add an actual memory card, you could back up your system to that with one of the backup programs, if there is fear of losing what it on the hard drive.

It looks like the LifeDrive Manager can be set to sync the hard drive to your pc. Haven't played with that yet.

As far as the ruggedness of the hard drive... It's not as rugged as solid state memory, but this is the same type of hard drive that is being used in iPOD and it doesn't seem to be a problem there.

[druss]

Festus, is there a big difference between the t5 or LD ? I looked at some photos and it looks like it doesnt get very bright. also does most of the software work on it? Heard that it might make more hard resets with different programs and I do that enough with my T5? But I do want to know if it is worth it for I am seriously looking in to getting one. Dr

[Festus440]

I compared the brightness of the LD to a T5 at the store and they looked the same to me and it also looked the same as my NX70. (The salesman took out his Treo and that display on that thing was REALLY bright. Brighter than anything I've seen on any Palm or PPC.) We played with the brightness controls on the T5 and the LD and agreed that the brightness was the same.

Since I was upgrading from an older NX70, it seemed worth it. I mostly wanted the higher processor speed and a more standard sound system (than Sony). I do notice the speed improvement.

I just got the LD last night, and let it charge a couple of hours like the book said in bold letters. Boy that was tough :( Anyway, so far I haven't any problems with the software I've installed, but I think the biggest app I owned was Docs to Go, and it was already installed.

I'd also say the "delay" problem eveyone's talking about is blown way out of proportion. At the store, I had a hard time finding any delay at all. After using it for a while at hone, I have seen a couple of seconds at times but never 6.

[tonyreynolds]

And on a tangential note, just what would it take to make the hard drive crash? What would happen if you dropped the LD while it was on, or while the drive was spinning? Is the hard drive any less reliable than an SD card?

The drive has acceleration sensing that enables it to park the head before it hits in the event of someone dropping the unit. This is built into the HD itself, not something that Palm1 adds.

I share the concerns of others regarding backups and memory volitility, but at this point, I don't think anyone knows enough yet to say definitively what the backup provisions are or not.

Let's wait until after the first 2 or 3 reviews to see...

Tony

[Cyker]

Of course the HD will be more delicate than solid state memory!

However, it's a moot point - If you drop an LD, a T|5 or hell even my TH55 - Chances are something's gonna get damaged. From the point of view, the HD isn't that big of an addition to the risk of something breaking.

Small drives tend to be surprisingly resillient 'tho. If this thing was a 5.25" platter it'd get a head-crash very very easily, but I doubt the platter in this is bigger than an inch so it should be fairly hardy.

As long as you're sensible, (i.e. don't throw it, drop it, kick it, douse it in water, or put it on heavily vibrating surfaces like washing machines, idling bus engines, or pneumatic drills while it's on), it should be as hardy as any other electronic device...

[tonyreynolds]

Of course the HD will be more delicate than solid state memory!

However, it's a moot point - If you drop an LD, a T|5 or hell even my TH55 - Chances are something's gonna get damaged. From the point of view, the HD isn't that big of an addition to the risk of something breaking.

Small drives tend to be surprisingly resillient 'tho. If this thing was a 5.25" platter it'd get a head-crash very very easily, but I doubt the platter in this is bigger than an inch so it should be fairly hardy.

I opened the car door to take out my backpack the other day and forgot that my TH55 was in the folds of my vest...

:eek:

The TH fell to the concrete driveway and skittered to the middle under the car. Except for one small ding near the connector on the bottom and a couple very minor scratches on the flip cover, it's fine.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!

Man, am I glad the TH has a flip cover...

Tony

[Cyker]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Man... just the thought of that is scarier than the Exorcist! :eek:

I've only ever dropped it on a thick carpet and that scared me enough!!!

[tonyreynolds]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Man... just the thought of that is scarier than the Exorcist! :eek:

I've only ever dropped it on a thick carpet and that scared me enough!!!

Yeah, it was a real Prozac moment...

:rolleyes:

[thebiggun]

I will be 'upgrading' for the most ridiculous of reasons...I have an addiction to new PalmOne devices. I am begining to realize this now, and I feel that this is half the battle.
I have gone from a m100->m130->m515->T->T|2->T|3->T|5->LifeDrive...which I ordered day before yesterday. Can someone help me? Is there a program set up for folks like me.

Seriously, I believe the driving force behind my upgrades has always been space. I always fill up what I feel could never be filled up. Crazy...I wonder what's next? :p

[tonyreynolds]

I will be 'upgrading' for the most ridiculous of reasons...I have an addiction to new PalmOne devices. I am begining to realize this now, and I feel that this is half the battle.
I have gone from a m100->m130->m515->T->T|2->T|3->T|5->LifeDrive...which I ordered day before yesterday. Can someone help me? Is there a program set up for folks like me.

Seriously, I believe the driving force behind my upgrades has always been space. I always fill up what I feel could never be filled up. Crazy...I wonder what's next? :p

My addiction goes back before yours (PDA-wise), and I think, my son, that there are worse things to be addicted to.

Consider yourself forgiven...

TR

[Festus440]

I talked to someone at Palm.
I guess they don't call it a "Hard Reset" any more, but it is true that when you do it, the entire 4-gig hard drive gets reset and all of the data goes away:(

However, the LifeDrive Manager program allows you to specfy folders on the LD hard drive that will be synced to your PC. Any folders you select are updated on your PC everytime you do a hotsync. So if the worst should happen, the latest files are backed up on your PC.

The program is pretty slick. As long as the LD is connected you can just move/copy files around on the LD hard drive or to/from you PC. (No need to "mount" it.) The LD is still available, and you can run programs on the LD at the same time. You can also mount it in the traditional way as a removable drive on your PC. (Called "Drive Mode".)

But. I would say a backup to a memory card is in order if you travel without a laptop. If you have mission critical files on the LD hard drive, better have a backup to a usb drive. (I have a 1-gig usb drive and do this with important files on my laptop already.)

[cktlcmd]

I talked to someone at Palm.
I guess they don't call it a "Hard Reset" any more, but it is true that when you do it, the entire 4-gig hard drive gets reset and all of the data goes away:(

However, the LifeDrive Manager program allows you to specfy folders on the LD hard drive that will be synced to your PC. Any folders you select are updated on your PC everytime you do a hotsync. So if the worst should happen, the latest files are backed up on your PC.

The program is pretty slick. As long as the LD is connected you can just move/copy files around on the LD hard drive or to/from you PC. (No need to "mount" it.) The LD is still available, and you can run programs on the LD at the same time. You can also mount it in the traditional way as a removable drive on your PC. (Called "Drive Mode".)

But. I would say a backup to a memory card is in order if you travel without a laptop. If you have mission critical files on the LD hard drive, better have a backup to a usb drive. (I have a 1-gig usb drive and do this with important files on my laptop already.)

Sounds like their decision to change how the device performs a reset will give the user a lot of headaches and inconvenience. There is no doubt that a reset will occur, and to loose everything inside the 4GB memory is counterproductive. My idea of a PDA is so we can leave our laptops or computers at home and not to carry other gadgets. The problem arises if you have to perform a reset away from your PC. :(

[Ezikial Anta]

Its not like a soft reset deletes the hard drive...
(or is it?)

[Zano2004]

I did a "hard reset" last night on my Life Drive. The online help files calls it a "hard reset". And, it does erase the hard disk. But, as pointed-out, the hard disk is easy to back-up. Soft reset does not erase the drive.

[Cyker]

Wait, you mean it erases both the 64MB program area AND the ~4GB internal VFS area?!?!? :eek:

[Gekko]

I just "fondled" a Live LifeDrive at ConUSA

I just got back from ConUSA and they had a LD all charged up and ready to go. I tested it for about 1/2 hr. Here are my thoughts.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27396

[Paratus]

Well seeing as I coming from a T615C that is now 3 years old - that I've had to black tape the ribbon connector to the mobo to keep it syncing - that has lost all but 3 screws - and is now hard reseting, getting stuck in reset loops and crashes on random app startup - is there anything in the LD that will be slower/worse than even a brand new T615C?

About the only thing bad I see is that I'll have to replace mine and my wifes. Hers is in mint condition. Mine looks like it was dragged behind the back of a car for a couple of miles. 2 LDs plus 3 cradles (1 for home, 1 for my work, 1 for hers) a hardcase (for me so the LD doesn't look like it was dragged behind a car), and a bluetooth keyboard or two is going to be really expensive.

[Zano2004]

LD also has USB2 capabilities.... Sure makes syncing NICE!

[technical1]

@ All,

If the 'RAM' & the 4Gb are lost on a hard reset, then this is certainly a design flaw.

A handheld is supposed to be something that you can use to 'take it with you'; & having to do a restore fm a PC is a dealbreaker for me. This makes me believe that Pa1m has used this opportunity to use the latest h/w release as a way to compete w/Ipods & have with it a PDA. However, if the losss of ram & hd come about upon hard reset; then they have shot themselves in the foot on the PDA side. I ALWAYS back up to my SD card & until they come out w/ >4Gb SD cards, an LD is not in the cards for me.

[FIA WRC]

Has anyone tried to use WebPro V3.5 on the LifeDrive?

[Festus440]

I ALWAYS back up to my SD card & until they come out w/ >4Gb SD cards, an LD is not in the cards for me.If they had 4 gig (and affordable) SD cards we wouldn’t need the hard drive would we :D
This makes me believe that Pa1m has used this opportunity to use the latest h/w release as a way to compete w/Ipods & have with it a PDA.
Well of course that's what they did! PDA sales are in the dumpster. There’s a rumor out there that this is the last “PDA” Pa1m will make.
A handheld is supposed to be something that you can use to 'take it with you'; & having to do a restore fm a PC is a dealbreaker for me.
The same is true for those little USB drives, and I’ve accidentally wiped out one of those before.

I bought my NX70 new, and NEVER had to do a "hard" reset. Sure there are horror stories out there, but I believe most people have had the same experience as I have. (The more you play with “bleeding edge” software, the more likely you will wind up doing a hard reset sometime.)

OK worse case scenario…. You take it on a family vacation and use it to store your photos. A hard reset at that time would be very very bad, but from my experience with my previous 3 PDAs, that’s not likely to happen.

But wait! What if it your PDA got stolen or you ran over it with your car!!! Darn! Back to having to do a backup from the PC again to the new PDA!

OK I’m being facetious, but I believe the risk is pretty low and nothing is perfectly safe. (I lost a hard drive on a PC a couple of months ago. No warning at all. Just blue screen and gone!)


.

[Surur]

OK I’m being facetious, but I believe the risk is pretty low and nothing is perfectly safe. (I lost a hard drive on a PC a couple of months ago. No warning at all. Just blue screen and gone!).

I'm sure people are not objecting to the possibility of accidental loss, but are more wondering what P1 was thinking by deleting their data on purpose. Its like driving with a spike on your steering wheel. Its still very menacing, even though accidents are quite rare.

Surur

[clie_wannabe]

yep - its really stupid for Palm1 to design the LifeDrive in such a way that the HD also gets erased during a "hard reset"...

c'mon - havent they learned from Sony (which was the leading Palm manufacturer before it chicked out) - the VZ90 has 95MB of extra storage built-in, so in the case of a "hard reset," you could still perform a complete restore... why VZ90? this was also available from the UX40/50...

really REALLY disappointed - and i thought that Palm1 had already found it out... just another Tungsten 5 fiasco to me...

[clie_wannabe]

I talked to someone at Palm.
I guess they don't call it a "Hard Reset" any more, but it is true that when you do it, the entire 4-gig hard drive gets reset and all of the data goes away:(

However, the LifeDrive Manager program allows you to specfy folders on the LD hard drive that will be synced to your PC. Any folders you select are updated on your PC everytime you do a hotsync. So if the worst should happen, the latest files are backed up on your PC.

The program is pretty slick. As long as the LD is connected you can just move/copy files around on the LD hard drive or to/from you PC. (No need to "mount" it.) The LD is still available, and you can run programs on the LD at the same time. You can also mount it in the traditional way as a removable drive on your PC. (Called "Drive Mode".)

But. I would say a backup to a memory card is in order if you travel without a laptop. If you have mission critical files on the LD hard drive, better have a backup to a usb drive. (I have a 1-gig usb drive and do this with important files on my laptop already.)

however, who would want to restore around 4GB (assuming worst-case scenario) of data???

this is just plain STUPIDITY on Palm1's part... :mad:

i wonder what their engineers were thinking about? maybe they didnt reverse-engineer the Zaurus SLC-3000 well enough... hehehehe...

kinda reminds me of Micro$oft removing WiFi Sync from ActiveStink...

[jhintonh]

Good Morning-

I thought the purpose of a Hard Reset has always been to restore the entire device back to factory settings...including factory "clean" memory? That is maintained on this device, the only difference being the AMOUNT of memory that is wiped. I have a feeling that if the entire 4GB were not erased during a Hard Reset there would plenty of folks who cried "why can't Palm just keep things the way they have always been?"

No device can ever be "perfect" to everyone. That is why there are several "models" in most expensive product lines, cars included. It seems to me from my reading to this point (have not seen a LD in person yet) that Palm is trying to address a very large portion of the wants that are out there. Hard drive, lots of storage, virtual Graffitti area, rotating screen, fast processor, WiFi & BT, Hold switch, better mp3 player software, etcetera. It still falls short of my TH55 overall for my uses, but it appears to be a good try that will indeed satisfy a lot of "Power Users".

-Jhintonh

[clie_wannabe]

Good Morning-

I thought the purpose of a Hard Reset has always been to restore the entire device back to factory settings...including factory "clean" memory? That is maintained on this device, the only difference being the AMOUNT of memory that is wiped. I have a feeling that if the entire 4GB were not erased during a Hard Reset there would plenty of folks who cried "why can't Palm just keep things the way they have always been?"

No device can ever be "perfect" to everyone. That is why there are several "models" in most expensive product lines, cars included. It seems to me from my reading to this point (have not seen a LD in person yet) that Palm is trying to address a very large portion of the wants that are out there. Hard drive, lots of storage, virtual Graffitti area, rotating screen, fast processor, WiFi & BT, Hold switch, better mp3 player software, etcetera. It still falls short of my TH55 overall for my uses, but it appears to be a good try that will indeed satisfy a lot of "Power Users".

-Jhintonh

let me give you a situationer...

you're on the road with your family... taking lots of pics with your SD-card digital camera... you didnt bring your laptop since as Palm1's motto is ---> "digital everything..."

so what do you do? you backup most of your pics onto your LifeDrive...

well, for starters, assume that you also need to work part-time (say, keep in touch with the office)... since you didnt bring your laptop (as Palm1's marketing), you saved most of your office documents in your LifeDrive...

oh, before going on the trip, you installed a new application... just to note...

well, as you get to your next destination, you play around with this new application - and BOOM... software conflict... HARD RESET... HD erased...

what are you to do?

---

yes, i would agree that there is no perfect device - and that Palm1 has basically to think of the majority of users, the majority of users that would want to "digital everything" (again, Palm1 marketing)... and IMO, the example ive shown above IS the majority of users (and NON-power users)...

PS: to add, when Palm1 mentioned "digital everything," it essentially meant storing everything on your LifeDrive (basically your "life")... and thus, when you have a "hard reset" - BOOM... your life is gone - unless you have a updated backup somewhere (worth at least 4GB), and of course, a PC...

[clie_wannabe]

I thought the purpose of a Hard Reset has always been to restore the entire device back to factory settings...including factory "clean" memory?

you have a point there...

the sad thing is that "hard resets" do happen, even if we dont want to "factory clean" our device...

[junglemike]

There is absolutely no justification on erasing entire drive. what _has_ to be done in case of severe sofware conflict - is erase all Dram cashe, and also 64mb program memory on the drive. Leaving rest intact. After such reset - your device would be just like new, except - that you could easily restore everything in minutes.
Consider also that LD has very good chance of catching HR due to many nvfs bugs still left. and incompatible soft.

Just imagine, What if your palm , when doing hard reset, would also erase all your SD card? (even if you put lock on, or even remove the card :-) )
How would you feel about that?

[Cyker]

Good analogy!

It'd be like the UX50 erasing it's internal VFS area or the T|5 erasing it's internal VFS area... Stupid stupid stupid...

I really want to know what's going on at Palm. I mean, the Clies have often had design elements which make you scratch your head and wonder what they were smoking, but that was usually made up for by the rest of the PDA being awesome.

Palm seem to have caught this habit of making very questionable design decisions, except unlike Sony they didn't put any redeeming things to counter it...

The only selling point of the LD is that it has a 4GB internal area - Palm better pray that nobody creates a universal PalmOS FAT32 driver because if that happens, the LD will be instantly blown away by every other OS5 Palm and Clie in existance...

[Jeff Kirvin]

however, who would want to restore around 4GB (assuming worst-case scenario) of data???

this is just plain STUPIDITY on Palm1's part... :mad:

i wonder what their engineers were thinking about? maybe they didnt reverse-engineer the Zaurus SLC-3000 well enough... hehehehe...

kinda reminds me of Micro$oft removing WiFi Sync from ActiveStink...
It's not stupidity. It's security. Think like a corporate IT manager and it will make sense.

[Jeff Kirvin]

There is absolutely no justification on erasing entire drive.
Sure there is. The device is lost or stolen, and password protected. The only way to get around the password is a hard reset, but there are sensitive documents worth millions to your competition on the drive.

BTW, this is exactly why a hard reset erases the drive. It's a security measure. If you're having problems a soft reset won't fix, do a firm reset. A hard reset should be exceedingly rare.

[Jeremy Eynon]

If the lifedrive is stolen, even if you have it password protected, what is to stop the thief from opening up the unit, taking out the hitachi drive and accessing whatever valuabke data you have on there?

[Jeff Kirvin]

If the lifedrive is stolen, even if you have it password protected, what is to stop the thief from opening up the unit, taking out the hitachi drive and accessing whatever valuabke data you have on there?
I'm guessing most thieves aren't that savvy.

[Cyker]

No business man would buy the LifeDrive for a PDA - You said so yourself Jeff, this thing is targetted at the iPod crowd...

This thing is first and foremost a media player - Security measures such as self-destruction of data, would not be part of the spec, and even main-stream business-type PDA's do not come with such a feature as standard!
I suspect the Hard-Reset erasure of the internal VFS area was a gaff or oversight on the part of Palm - Even the T|5 and E2 do not do such a thing, and they are much much much more likely to be used by professionals to store sensitive data.

It makes no sense anyway - If the data was so valuable that it warrented deletion in such a fashion, the person using it would use a PDA with real volatile RAM - An erased hard disk can still have it's data recovered by specialists, and if this data was 'worth millions to the competition' then they'd be able to extract that data from any number of data recover specialists.

You can come up with all sorts of reasons why they made it wipe the WHOLE HD, but none of them make any sense if you dig a little.

Really there are only 2 reasons I can think of that seem plausible:
1) It's a cockup - This is IMHO the most likely reason; Instead of null-writing only the 64MB Program Area/file table, they forgot to add a limiter for just that section, so it nulls out the *whole* drive/FAT table.
2) There's some underlying problem which means it's hard for them to erase just the Program part, so they thought "Sod it" and just made it erase the whole drive. For instance, if the Program area and VFS areas are not cleanly defined partitions, then file fragmentation could end up with them getting intermingled. It's kinda hard to explain this one 'tho because it would have been a lot more sensible to use standard partitioning and just format/null-write the program area partition when a hard-reset occurs.

[Gekko]

Such mental gymnastics are required to defend the indefensible.

[Surur]

Originally Posted by clie_wannabe
however, who would want to restore around 4GB (assuming worst-case scenario) of data???

this is just plain STUPIDITY on Palm1's part...

i wonder what their engineers were thinking about? maybe they didnt reverse-engineer the Zaurus SLC-3000 well enough... hehehehe...

kinda reminds me of Micro$oft removing WiFi Sync from ActiveStink...

It's not stupidity. It's security. Think like a corporate IT manager and it will make sense.

Funny that both MS and P1 gave the same excuse for their stupidity.

Surur

[junglemike]

I agree with Cyker. The reason of Hdd wiping out Jeff told makes no sence at all.
If you have so much valuable cocuments/data on your palm , first thing you should worry about - is you will not loose it, no matter how pda behaves itself. How on earth can you put, say, an important presentation you have to present, if there is a pretty big chance of HR wiping it out. Yes, there is always _tiny_ chance of loosing your pda, or someone stealing it, just like there is tiny chance that your pc will brake, or your laptop will brake down.
If someone really wants to protect their data, he will use an 3rd party encription sofware with strong password, which _really_ makes data unreachable by others.

[clie_wannabe]

supposed Palm engineer, Henry Howards, gives us an answer in a different thread when post with the question on why Palm1 decided to have the HD erased during a "hard reset"...

as jeff notes, its definitely not for business use - and this is assuming Henry is really a Palm1 engineer...

here is the link

http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=814592&postcount=13

[valodya]

HenryHowards' argument in the link above I think is also fallacious. I'd almost certainly buy a memory card to back up crucial files in any case, particularly if I'm going to be away from a computer I can sync to for an extended period. I would have that in the event of a catostrophic hard disk failure, which I hope would never happen. I'd still expect my non-crucial data to survive a run of the mill hard reset. Non-crucial doesn't mean unimportant. Even if it's just music and photos, I'd hate to lose it in the middle of a three week vacation. Hard resets are rare, but over the years (since 1996?) they've added up to plenty, and some have been quite irksome (like I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't have a PC to sync my PalmIIIx to in Cuzco Peru).

I agree that this is a major design flaw, and a near deal breaker for me.

[Festus440]

I'd still expect my non-crucial data to survive a run of the mill hard reset.

Totally aside from the hard drive issue, a "hard' reset is not a "run of the mill" event. On my last PDA, an NX70, I never had to do a hard reset. On the PDA I owned before that, an N760, I only did a hard reset once while playing with a beta version of a launcher. On the PDA I owned before that, a Palm V. I never did a hard reset.

Perhaps you are thinking of a "soft" reset. Different story there. That is like rebooting your PC and no data is lost on the LD or any other PDA. Simply pushing the reset button on a Palm PDA is a "soft" reset and no programs or data is erased.

There is even a "warm" reset, that is similar to "safe mode" in Windows.

A hard reset is a last restort and should be a very rare event.

[valodya]

I know a hard reset when I see one, with total loss of data, and everything returned to factory settings. I've had Palms since the PalmPilot Pro (followed by PalmIIIx, Visor Prism, Clie NR70, Clie TH55; I might have missed one or two), so I know the difference between hard and soft resets, and I have seen my share on all of them. Like I said, they don't happen every day, but over the course of close to ten years, they've happened enough (and trust me, once or twice is enough) in awkward times and places that I've learned to safeguard against them. And be that as it may, forcing you to wipe the hard drive is a design flaw, not a feature.

[poissonsouriant]

You know, maybe when they release an OS update for the LD, they can fix this. Perhaps they can provide options-soft reset, warm reset, hard reset (which erases the program memory) and factory reset (which wipes the HD). I can still see the need for a complete erase option, but many will want to keep their photos, MP3s, etc. through a hard reset.

I think a letter writing campaign to PalmOne is necessary.

[Festus440]

valodya,
I'm glad you know the difference, but for the benefit of newbies or less experienced people who frequent this board, a hard reset still should be a rare event.

I'm not defending the fact that hard drive gets erased during a hard reset. It's a bad idea and I've told them so (Palm). I'd like to "really" know why it's that way, and I’m curious if there will be a fix. However with my past experience, I’m also not overly concerned about it happening and will take the same precautions I always have in case a hard reset should be needed or worse, the thing got stolen. (And yes I use my PDA mostly for business.)

I've had more hard drives die in PCs than hard resets on my PDAs. That hasn't stopped me from using a PC :D

[timepilot84]

... Is when I'm selling a device. I don't know what the big deal is. "Warm" reset will stop a reset loop and you can get rid of the offending software. This is the same way that a T5 works, I don't see what the big issue is.

[Wytnucls]

The warm reset is handy to fix a soft reset loop, but in many instances, my device went straight into a hard reset, with no alternative mode of recovery.
Restore from back up fixed the problem easily, as my RAM gets backed up automatically every day to external card. Obviously, external card storage was never affected by a hard reset.
Palm1, having integrated the main storage area into the unit, needs to have the HD erased after a hard reset to restore the LD to its factory settings.
This set up will be of major concern to someone carrying critical information with no immediate access to his PC or laptop for a quick restore.
The sooner someone comes up with an application that will automatically back up important portions of the HD to SD card, the better.

[Surur]

The sooner someone comes up with an application that will automatically back up important portions of the HD to SD card, the better.

That is so wrong way around its incredible! :eek: What will P1 do next? Force people to carry their laptop on holidays so that they can back up their 4 gigs?

Surur

[Festus440]

If I start having problems with hard resets on my LD, I will change my tune real fast.

But since I've only ever had one hard reset in my entire PDA experience of about 5 years, and that one was actually caused by playing with some beta software, I'm not going to worry about it.

In my case, it's more likely that the LD gets lost or stolen.

The rest of you will have to wait for 4-gig + SD cards.

In the mean time, I'm going to enjoy using my LD :D