Switch to Tungsten X?

[broadus]

If the rumored Tungsten X becomes a reality next month, or in the near future, would you sell your TH55 for the new Palm, or do you think that your TH55 serves your needs well and the new device is a bit of overkill unless you're really into audio/visual?

As for me, I love my TH55. Sony's long gone, though, from the PDA market and the time will come when my TH55 will be long gone, too. The rumored Tungsten is pretty attractive.

Bill

[winexprt]

If the rumored Tungsten X becomes a reality next month, or in the near future, would you sell your TH55 for the new Palm, or do you think that your TH55 serves your needs well and the new device is a bit of overkill unless you're really into audio/visual?

As for me, I love my TH55. Sony's long gone, though, from the PDA market and the time will come when my TH55 will be long gone, too. The rumored Tungsten is pretty attractive.

Bill

Dunno really. Tough question. Do I keep the TH55 around for "Old time's sake" LOL Or...sell it and buy the T|X. At this point, assuming all we've heard is true, there is no doubt that I want this new dream machine...just a question of when I'll have the $$$. ;)

Thing is, one of the things I love so much about my TH55 is just how slim & compact it it. It looks like this new T|X is gonna be around TWICE as thick as a TH55! :eek: In that case...keeping my TH (and saving all that cash) might be a real possibility, as my TH is in mint condition.

[strider_mt2k]

I'm looking with keen interest toward the LD, or the TX, or whatever it's called.
I won't off my TH to get one, however.

I'd like for it to not have any glaring technical or marketing mistakes!
I think my TH55 will do nicely until THAT'S been proven.

[Joel]

Thinking about it, I have to read reviews or experience for myself how the TX works before I can make a decision regarding TH vs. TX preference.

[Cyker]

From what I've read, the LD/T|X is targetted at something totally different than what I actually want out of a PDA. I'm heavily biased 'tho; I still consider the TH a near-perfect balance of everything I want out of a PDA, so to be fair it'll be a challenge for anyone to pry me away from it (And, as JeffK points out repeatedly ;), no company is even remotely interested in catering for people like me anymore... more's the pity :(). The sort answer is I doubt I'll get it.

TBH, if I was after a video player I'd be more inclined to look at some of the stuff various companies were showing off at the cebit. I don't think PalmOS is well suited to multimedia stuff. It can do it, as Sony proved, but when you've seen dedicated hardware do it, it just doesn't stand up so well...

[danopoly]

Not a chance! im not switching just yet. My TH55 is the perfect PDA for me right now. The only time when i will depart from my TH is when the battery dies for good. But by then, a new and much better Palm1 device will be made and the TX will be such an old model.

[THX-1138]

What puts me off from this new Tungsten-X is the fact of being thicker than my current TH55. Also it may weigh a bit more, nothing is said about it's battery life and NO camara! Other than these things, it seems to be a great system.

[LupeValenz]

I LOVE my TH55!! I'm holding on to this thing till it croaks!!!

[DanT]

I LOVE my TH55!! I'm holding on to this thing till it croaks!!!

That will be awhile for me. If it ever croaks I have a spare one ready to take over. After all, part of my brain is in there and certainly don't want to leave home w/o it even for a day.

[darklight]

I must admit I am excited to see this Tungsten X.

Specs-wise, I like the figures I see.

However, I would still like to wait for user reviews before
even considering replacing my (preciousssss) TH55.

Right now though, I must say I am turned off by the bloat that
Palm has decided make of this coming PDA's thickness...

How could it still be considered "portable" when it
bulges out of any pocket you put in?
(silly me, the "P" in "PDA" ONLY means "Personal")
:D

[tonyreynolds]

If the T | X has the rumored specs, plus decent battery life, I'm in and the TH becomes my backup.

It'll have to wait awhile though, I just got a Konica-Minolta A2, so one toy at a time...

Tony :)

[snook_cs]

I have to say, the T|X (or whatever it'll be called) isn't that compelling for me. With PDAs, everything is a tradeoff, and the TH55E has struck a pretty perfect balance. The size is perfect, even better since I removed the flip-lid.

The processor may seem slow, but the dedicated media-processing chips more than make up for that. The TH battery life is amazing, and that new Palm thing will suck milliamps like no tomorrow. I love surfing the web from ANYWHERE with Bluetooth and myV710.

I've also invested a tremendous amount in "Palm the Sony Way", (my GF had an NR70, I had an NX 70 and then a '55U before I moved up to a '55E), BOTH in time and money spent.

In terms of cash, I have a VR100K video recorder, PEGA-BC10 battery pack, many many memory sticks, and also use Sony still and video cams. Everything plays nicely together. :)

In terms of time, I've been working with Sony PDAs for years now, and I'm really happy with all of the useful tricks my Cliés can do. It's been a really fun hobby to push the envelope with it. (the Landscape app alone has made this a new machine!)

If I want a media player, I'd want something with at least a 40 GB drive inside, not a 4 GB. It'd need really really awesome battery life, and to get that it would need to be a bit of a brick. Fun — but not to carry everywhere.

If I really need a movie or two with me, the TH is great for that...
.

[danopoly]

I must admit I am excited to see this Tungsten X.

Specs-wise, I like the figures I see.

However, I would still like to wait for user reviews before
even considering replacing my (preciousssss) TH55.

Right now though, I must say I am turned off by the bloat that
Palm has decided make of this coming PDA's thickness...

How could it still be considered "portable" when it
bulges out of any pocket you put in?
(silly me, the "P" in "PDA" ONLY means "Personal")
:D

Strange how people change their minds so sudden. When the T5 was released, people complain that it didnt have wifi and they didnt care if the wifi would add bulkyness to it ("Just add wifi!!!" they said). And now when palm1 adds wifi to their Tungsten line, people complain of how bulky it is. Strange......

[Cyker]

Blame the TH55 ;)
I don't know how Sony managed to cram so much into such a small form factor...!

The T|X will be a bit bulky simply because of the hard disk.
The iPod and iRiver *look* small, because width and height-wise, they are. What people don't notice so much is the thickness, but if you add that thickness to the average PDA width+height, it will be more bulky.

I wonder if Palm1 are going to put the HD in some sort of shock-dampening mount, or just bolt it into the case...?

[winexprt]

...I wonder if Palm1 are going to put the HD in some sort of shock-dampening mount, or just bolt it into the case...?

Bingo! The Million Dollar question. I've already ruined one iPod by dropping it while the hard drive was spinning. And I've also dropped every PDA I've ever owned at least twice. I'm extremely careful...but these things just happen. That's life. I hope palm1 included something akin to what IBM has on its laptops: free-fall sensing technology that parks the hard drive in flight. If not, I have to seriously consider if a HDD PDA is the thing for me.
:confused:

[Wolfgard]

I'll probably stick with my TH55 till a device with Cobalt/PalmOS Linux comes out. I just don't want to buy another Garnet device, the OS is getting abit boring now.

[danopoly]

This may sound like a dumb question and its totaly off topic, but im just wondering, what does linux do? and what is it? I keep hearing about it and how people wish their PDA's run on Linux. WHATS A LINUX? Can any1 answer this question??

My guess is that its another Operating system (ex: Microsoft, Mac)is it?

[billegal]

Is your question serious? It's an open source operating system. It has been adapted to many hardware platforms (PC, Mac, handhelds, and many other older or obscure platforms). It is Unix like in that it uses the same shells and command line instructions in MANY but not all instances.

[Cyker]

....

Dude, where have you been?! :p

Okay okay, seriously. Yes, Linux is another operating system. It has the distinction of being one of the very few operating systems where you have access to the source code, which is why it's very popular among hackers (Real meaning, not press meaning) and techies.

It's most popular as a server base because it's rock solid (Unlike Windows servers ;)), but doesn't have much mainstream support (Frankly, you have to have a certain level of intelligenece and 'arsed-ness' to use it. Since most new computer users these days can't be arsed to learn, they would have a lot of trouble trying to use it.)

Recently it's had an explosion of publicity for some reason, and lots of people have been flocking to it.
Unfortunately, many companies have also been jumping on the publicity bandwagon, and we're seeing Linux being integrated with all sorts of ridiculous things (I read about a Linux-powered microwave-toaster about a month ago. I really hope it was a joke...!).

Apparently, by some bizzare method of thinking, they seem to think people will buy their product just because it has the word Linux in it...

Frankly this is what I feel about this whole Linux-PalmOS dealie...

It's a bit deceptive 'tho - PalmSource are NOT porting Linux to PalmOS (Thank smeg! That'd have been horrible... imagine a CLI-based OS on a pen-based PDA! *gak*); They're basically porting the Linux hardware interface, and then will re-tool PalmOS to run on top of it. This is ostensibly to leverage Linux driver support, but I don't understand how they intend to leverage driver support when Linux drivers for PalmOS devices do not exist...?!


I'll probably stick with my TH55 till a device with Cobalt/PalmOS Linux comes out. I just don't want to buy another Garnet device, the OS is getting abit boring now.
Ahh... boring but works, vs fluffy bells and whistles. That's always been the main difference between PalmOS and PPC you know ;)

To be honest, I doubt Cobolt will be any more 'exciting' than PalmOS, so prepare to be disappointed... :(

[billegal]

I don't understand how they intend to leverage driver support when Linux drivers for PalmOS devices do not exist...?!

They leverage support by being open source. Anyone with the hardware specs, time and interest can add whatever support they want.

[Cyker]

But they could achieve the same thing now just by opening up their specs surely...?

And people making hardware would have access to the interface specs anyway!

[PCMaven]

Quite simply, if it doesn't fit in my shirt pocket I'm not getting it!

[ayu61200]

I would not even consider it. What for? My TH55/E2 does all I need. Spending money on other device would be throwing the money to the trash, at least, for the next 2 or 3 years.

[RobertJSawyer]

I'm tempted, I must say. But I've actually come to like the TH55's jog wheel o the back; not sure I want to swap that for the T | X's five-way navigator. My favorite of all, though, was the jog wheel on the side, like in the Clie SJ models.

[Cyker]

I must admit, going back to my T665 with the side-jog feels weird now ;)

I was thinking 'tho... It would be nifty if we had a Clie like the TH55, but with a 5-way thumb-stick on the front... and maybe a thumb rocker on the side :D

[RobertJSawyer]

I use my Clie mostly for reading or editing documents, and so I've redefined Back, Caputre, and all four hard buttons to be "Page Down." Generally, it's Back I use for "Page Down," but the others come in handy, too, depending on how I happen to be holding my Clie. And the TH55 is just about as heavy as I'd want a PDA to be; it actually starts to get tiresome holding it up for long periods reading in beg. I suspect the T|X would be more than I'd want to be holding up (the T|5 is nice and light, though).

[Cyker]

The T|5 is lighter than the TH??

Mmm... now that I think about it, it's not that strange... there's a lot less metal in a T|5 from what I've seen of it's insides...

How much does it weigh comparatively out of curiosity? Bit lighter? Much lighter?

[cristi]

....
Apparently, by some bizzare method of thinking, they seem to think people will buy their product just because it has the word Linux in it...
Frankly this is what I feel about this whole Linux-PalmOS dealie...


wow, you are confusing me a bit, you sound like you know Linux but then you make some very wrong assumptions.
It is not marketing to say it uses Linux.

1. Linux has a lot more developers (developing the OS and applications) then each of the major OS. There is no way MS employes as many programmers as volunteer for Linux.
2. Using it allows you to tweak it as much as you want to for cheaper than creating your own OS or paying MS for everything you do. It can also be tweaked to your heart's concern because the source code is available for everyone to modify.
3. You are so wrong about assuming that Linux is CLI based. It has more GUI interfaces than all of the other OSes out there * 100.
4. Peolpe like to use Linux because they also prefer not to bend over and take whatever Bill Gates wants to give them.

check out some screenshots:

http://www.hispazaurus.com/img/zaurus-principal.jpg
http://dp.penix.org/pix/Screenshots/opie-main.jpghttp://handhelds.org/~gpe/albums/backgroundsinaction/land_15936.png
http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/albums/opie12/desktop_small.png
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/319/73.gif
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/297/72.gif
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/144/36.gif
http://unix.se/pics/windowmaker/aaa.sized.jpg
http://llug.linux.ab.ca/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Enlightenment.jpg
http://sillydog.org/graph/temp/project_looking_glass01.jpg
http://www.muhri.net/e17_shot.jpg
http://www.kde-look.org/content/pre1/13166-1.jpg
http://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/bigjqi18x.png

and many many many more...

Every electronics device out there that makes use of Linux does so because Linux is free, you can check the source code and make sure it does not dial home to speak to Daddy(Bill Gates) without your permission and if Bill decides tomorrow that he will not be providing patches for your OS you have no option but to pay him for an upgrade but with Linux you can either pay a different company to provide these fixes or if you are clever enough you can do it yourself. Couple that with speed, security and stability and your take on "just publicity" starts to crumble.

[Cyker]

wow, you are confusing me a bit, you sound like you know Linux but then you make some very wrong assumptions.
It is not marketing to say it uses Linux.

1. Linux has a lot more developers (developing the OS and applications) then each of the major OS. There is no way MS employes as many programmers as volunteer for Linux.
2. Using it allows you to tweak it as much as you want to for cheaper than creating your own OS or paying MS for everything you do. It can also be tweaked to your heart's concern because the source code is available for everyone to modify.
3. You are so wrong about assuming that Linux is CLI based. It has more GUI interfaces than all of the other OSes out there * 100.
4. Peolpe like to use Linux because they also prefer not to bend over and take whatever Bill Gates wants to give them.

check out some screenshots:

<snip!>

and many many many more...

Every electronics device out there that makes use of Linux does so because Linux is free, you can check the source code and make sure it does not dial home to speak to Daddy(Bill Gates) without your permission and if Bill decides tomorrow that he will not be providing patches for your OS you have no option but to pay him for an upgrade but with Linux you can either pay a different company to provide these fixes or if you are clever enough you can do it yourself. Couple that with speed, security and stability and your take on "just publicity" starts to crumble.

Awwgh! Dude! My poor TH55! Trying to look at all those huge piccys!! :(

Anyway - Your points; No offense, but you sound like you're coming from the 'zealot' point of view. Hehe, speed, security, stability... sounds like an MS ad for Windows :p
Sorry sorry, not meaning that as flamebait...! :eek:

Seriously, I'll address the points in order:

1) Yes, Linux has lots of developers, but in this case it's totally irrelevent. First of all, Linus and all those developers will not develop code for PalmOS *just* because it says Linux on it. They code for the The Kernel. Palm will presumably use bits of that in their PalmOS-Linux hybrid.
Actually, this is partially why I don't understand what Palm are doing when they say they're adding Linux to PalmOS:
To me, Linux = The Kernel, but no one in their right mind would use the Linux Kernel on a PDA. It's too big and resource hungry to use on a low-power device. Devices like that usually use something like the uLinux kernel, but this is a seperate fork and is maintained by a different group.
It's like people assuming just because something is OpenSource, loads of faceless coders will code for it, but this is not the case:
One of my favorite programs is PilotDB - It's OpenSource, but it's progress has been very slow because there are only a handful of people actually coding for it despite it being popular and fairly established.

2) Again, I don't think this is relevent: I doubt we'll have the ability to flash in our own hacked Linux kernel or whatever they're gonna be putting in.
The only advantage I can see in such a case is that people can write driver code using the source as a guide, but with the current PalmOS there are driver API specs available anyway so there is no apparent gain...
I'd also point out that very few people can do OS-level coding. Out of all the thousands of people on this forum, I only know of 3, maybe 4 who I reckon understand it. I know I don't. Having access to the Source doesn't auto-magically mean people can mod it.

3) Well, Linux is technically the kernel so it's neither CLI or GUI based :p
Okay okay, I'm being pedantic ;)
I guess it's a point of view thing - I use Gentoo and Slackware, so to me Linux *IS* CLI-based. Additinally, in all the distro's I've used, e.g. Ubantu, Knoppix, SuSe or Mandrake to name the more 'consumery' ones, I've always had to fall back on the CLI for more advanced tasks.
The fact of it is that XFree86 (Or X.org) can either be started from init or a command shell much in the same way Windows 3.1 did in DOS. This isn't a bad thing because it allows flexibility, and unlike Windows you're not totally shafted if the graphics driver breaks.
Most of the Linux GUIs are very pretty, but they're designed to hide complexity from the user much the same way Windows does. Also, aside from a couple of specialty GUIs, they also tend to be very 'big-and-fat' like the WinXP GUI - Not feasible on a 320^2 screen...
Really 'tho, the point is moot - As I understand it, Palm will NOT be using any OpenSource or GNU licenced GUI, they will be using the PalmOS GUI.
The 'Linux' part is (supposedly) at the low-level interface layer between the hardware and the rest of PalmOS, and so doesn't care about anything that high level.

4) Actually, I like Linux because it lets me hack! Being able to mod your OS, even for a crap coder like me, is surprisingly informative. The fact that it's free is a bonus, although I make a point of paying for my Slackware distro.
The whole Freedom (speech, not beer) aspect appeals to me too.

5) Agree here - A lot of mfgs are using the Linux or uLinux kernels because they are 'free' (Although some of them seem to be violating the GPL because they don't have available source-code...).
However, my issues is with the many cases where companies are throwing away the perfectly good tight code they had before and sticking in 'Linux' just, seemingly, because it's Linux rather than any actual reason.
This is what I feel is happening here. Now, it may just be because I misunderstand what they intend to do, but until they release (or I find) more information, that's my PoV...


P.S.> Sorry if I seem a bit incoherent. Just got back from the HHGTTG film... :eek:

[SonyStyle]

i would personally would not switch because the lifedrive lacks a camera, i may reconsider later on once i get to paly with it.

[cristi]

And here is the official response from PalmSource:
http://palmsource.com/about/cms_linuxletter.html