Palm OS Games vs. Pocket PC

[mdicembre]

I have been looking at different PDA wbsites featuring games for both the Palm OS and the Pocket PC. It appears there is much more variety and much more advanced gameplay available for the Pocket PC than for play on my NX70V. Does anyone think that gameplay on the Palm OS will ever each the level available for the Pocket PC? As a big fan of computer gaming, I would love some insight into this area.

[rhart00]

there is a lot of discussion about this topic already in this forum, so if you search you can find a lot of insight. but here is a quick summary of what I think:

PPC has better game titles because "porting" games from PC to PPC is much easier than from PC to palm.

But, many of these great looking games for PPC aren't necessarily that great. neither PPC nor Palm OS PDAs were designed to be gaming machines so many of the most advanced games for PPC and Palm OS suffer from problems with control and dealing with the small screen size.

Again, search and you will find plenty of discussion about this topic.

[mdicembre]

rhart00,

Thanks so much for your input.

[Inginious]

I have seen some of the Games that PPC has (such as Age of Empires and some sniper game)and it makes me want to buy a PPC , however i have also seen that their graphics aren't as good as the NX

For example their card games do not compare to the NX card games such as the one that Acid Freecell.

This leads me to believe that the NX has more potential than the PC, graphics wise.

I wonder what others feel about this, would you agree or disagree with me?

[quiller]

PPC might *appear* to have better games, but this is just on the surface, and mostly by name. they have some traditional titles like Doom, Age of Empires, etc... however, look at the games that Palm has had for a couple years: Galactic Realms, Race Fever, SimCity, Zap2016, just to name a few. Think of the potential with the rise of OS5 and ARM-powered devices like the NX/NZ and T|T.

Also remember that while PPC has had the capability for the last two years, Palm has had both the market and the simplicity. PPC is trying to be a desktop in a 320x240 window, while PalmOS is trying to be what they are: a small computer, not meant to replace your desktop or laptop. In my opinion, the quality of games between the two platforms tips in Palm's favor, while possibly the "coolness" factor goes to PPC. However, the next year is going to see a very fast rise in OS5, ARM-powered games. Just imagine playing Zap! in 320x480 on a 400mhz Clie...

[rhart00]

Originally posted by quiller
PPC might *appear* to have better games, but this is just on the surface, and mostly by name. they have some traditional titles like Doom, Age of Empires, etc... however, look at the games that Palm has had for a couple years: Galactic Realms, Race Fever, SimCity, Zap2016, just to name a few. Think of the potential with the rise of OS5 and ARM-powered devices like the NX/NZ and T|T.

Also remember that while PPC has had the capability for the last two years, Palm has had both the market and the simplicity. PPC is trying to be a desktop in a 320x240 window, while PalmOS is trying to be what they are: a small computer, not meant to replace your desktop or laptop. In my opinion, the quality of games between the two platforms tips in Palm's favor, while possibly the "coolness" factor goes to PPC. However, the next year is going to see a very fast rise in OS5, ARM-powered games. Just imagine playing Zap! in 320x480 on a 400mhz Clie...

my thoughts exactly!

[Inginious]

Originally posted by quiller
PPC is trying to be a desktop in a 320x240 window, while PalmOS is trying to be what they are: a small computer, not meant to replace your desktop or laptop....Just imagine playing Zap! in 320x480 on a 400mhz Clie...

Well said, however, what did you mean by a 400MHz Clie

[hansschmucker]

The PalmSource reference design for OS5 devices forsees a 200 or a 400 Mhz processor. Funny, it doesn't forsee a 144 Mhz design like the ones used by PalmInc

[jakun]

the main reason people using the palm is because the simplicity and the small form factor while the pocket pc offering much wider use-ability in term of gaming and multimedia experience...however the emergence of sony clie especially the nx series change all that even though that it using arm based processor which kind of obsolete to the ppc. however by introducing big screen on the nx, it automaticly terminate the small form factor and introduce bulky features but with a punch. but in gaming, ppc is the best...the introduction of high powered but power demanding processor enable much more graphic rich and intense gaming to be brought forward to the ppc...while in the nx series it just follow the path of ppc....for instance...the nx enable emulator to run nes games...but the ppc are working on snes...the nx are yesterday story compared to ppc....and so by saying that imagine what the nx on palm can do tomorrow...what ppc can do tomorrow will logically still supersede the palm os almost in every aspect...currently some ppc introduced into the market are getting simpler and smaller which resembles palm...remember that i mention before that palm`s upper hand is because of it form factor...for example take hp1910, acer n2 or asus my pal series...i`ve been to brighthand forum and notice that there palm user who jump ships because of the ppc form factor achieve the palm form factor....eventough that they still say that palm os is still better then why switch platform in the first place??...despite the ppc constant crashing....retail software...microsoft support thingy...power drainer....but they still go for ppc because of what it have to offer today compared to what palm will offer to you tomorrow....i love the nx form factor...the built in keyboard...camera...big screen but i dont like the os...then i have to wait for xenio i guest...and yes i tried to turn my pocket gadget into a full blown pc if possible and i like the windows like gui...so what???

[quiller]

jakun, from the little i could interpret, you're saying a few things:

- Palm devices have a smaller and more attractive form factor
- Palm is simpler and easier to use
- PPC is better for gaming and multimedia
- PPC have more power
- PPC is "more usable"

My arguments here are quite a few. Though there are two or three PPC models which have a good form factor, the fact remains that the great majority of Palm-powered devices are still much smaller and lighter, not to mention more affordable. Sure, the Dell Axim series cut that down a bit, but look at the Palm Zire or Sony SJ22. In fact, with the release of the T|T and TG50, there really is no side (high, middle, low ends) of the Palm market with a "bulky" size. Actually, even the NX series are smaller and lighter than the majority of iPaqs and other PPC devices.

How can the Palm OS be "simpler" but the PPC be easier to use? From every account I have ever read, including BrightHand and CNET, the consensus is the average user will have a much easier time working with Palm than PPC2002.

On to gaming and multimedia. There is no way you can say that a 320x240 movie outshines the wide-screen movie playback on the NR/NX/NZ series. In terms of audio, neither side has a true advantage. If any, Sony has a slight edge from their previous experience with audio devices-- in my personal opinion, the NX and NZ speaker (as well as with headphones) sound much crisper than any PPC I've ever heard.

Finally, we come to the power aspect. 64mb compared to 16mb, you might bring up, or 400mhz to 200mhz. Compare the fact that the average Palm OS application comes in under 200k while the average PPC application is significantly larger. The available RAM is quickly eaten up. As to processing power, the same thing applies. The Palm OS was developed with speed and portability in mind, while PPC2002, being based on Windows, is in no way taking advantage of the speed it has at its command.

I see no way to argue the PPC as a superior gaming device because it has more raw power-- the Palm OS is quickly catching up, almost faster than the PPC market is improving themselves. Give it a year or two and you're going to see Palm devices as powerful as your average PPC.

[Spiral]

Some incorrect/slightly skewed points

-Galactic Realms, SimCity, Zap2016, PPC has simcity, and while zap WAS an impressive game, now it's limited by the fact its low-res (unless they released a new version recently), and i think race fever is low-res too

-wide-screen playback on a nr/nx/nz device in kinoma format is nice and big, but the downsides are that blockiness occurs, because of not super-compression

-jakun didn't say PPC was easier to use, if your ead carefully he says it crashes a lot, and me ntions all the downsides

-one place where PPC is better as a gaming device is because memory is much more easily allocated than on Palm OS

-haven't heard audio quality on ppc's (heard there use to be some skipping starting, dunno about now), but i'd much rather use wma's than atrac3, and it sounds better than mp3's at low qualities

[n2ifp]

For me PPC had too many issues and it was awkward to use.

The constant lockups and resets were nerve-racking.

I switched to Palm and never looked back.

The only area was that Pocket IE seemed to work nice, until it would lock up.

I do agree, WinCE is bloatware too. To fair it's not all bad, just I think Palm now has the edge.

For years I have been saying, Palm is trying to be more PPC like and PPC is trying to be a Palm. I think the two have finally converged

[Spiral]

Also...high-end ppc's now-a-days have pretty good battery life, the Toshiba e740 gets about 7 hours with backlight on medium, axim gets 8 hrs w/ backlight and 6 playing mp3's

[jakun]

who knows that oneday that the perfect os will emerge from `clash of the titan`..it`s simplistic yet customiseable....it`s small yet powerfull....and bla bla bla....

[Nemius]

Not to be insulting, but if I really want to play games, I'll pick up a GameBoy Advance. There are a lot of games out there playable on the NX, but the leasure activities on my NX are limited to music and videos. I use my PDA as a PDA, (stressing the A). There are other toys out there for game play.

[___]

Originally posted by quiller
jakun, from the little i could interpret, you're saying a few things:

- Palm devices have a smaller and more attractive form factor
- Palm is simpler and easier to use
- PPC is better for gaming and multimedia
- PPC have more power
- PPC is "more usable"

My arguments here are quite a few. Though there are two or three PPC models which have a good form factor, the fact remains that the great majority of Palm-powered devices are still much smaller and lighter, not to mention more affordable. Sure, the Dell Axim series cut that down a bit, but look at the Palm Zire or Sony SJ22. In fact, with the release of the T|T and TG50, there really is no side (high, middle, low ends) of the Palm market with a "bulky" size. Actually, even the NX series are smaller and lighter than the majority of iPaqs and other PPC devices.

How can the Palm OS be "simpler" but the PPC be easier to use? From every account I have ever read, including BrightHand and CNET, the consensus is the average user will have a much easier time working with Palm than PPC2002.

On to gaming and multimedia. There is no way you can say that a 320x240 movie outshines the wide-screen movie playback on the NR/NX/NZ series. In terms of audio, neither side has a true advantage. If any, Sony has a slight edge from their previous experience with audio devices-- in my personal opinion, the NX and NZ speaker (as well as with headphones) sound much crisper than any PPC I've ever heard.

Finally, we come to the power aspect. 64mb compared to 16mb, you might bring up, or 400mhz to 200mhz. Compare the fact that the average Palm OS application comes in under 200k while the average PPC application is significantly larger. The available RAM is quickly eaten up. As to processing power, the same thing applies. The Palm OS was developed with speed and portability in mind, while PPC2002, being based on Windows, is in no way taking advantage of the speed it has at its command.

I see no way to argue the PPC as a superior gaming device because it has more raw power-- the Palm OS is quickly catching up, almost faster than the PPC market is improving themselves. Give it a year or two and you're going to see Palm devices as powerful as your average PPC.

Just a side note: Not all Palms have better form factors than PPCs. The H1910 is smaller than the whole Sony Clie line except the SJ series (in height, but the H1910 may be smaller in surface area)

[batsai]

First off I have to bring up a point- I have been a Palm OS user a lot longer than I've been a PPC user, and I've recently returned to the Palm OS with the fabulous NX70V. The reason a lot of people hate the PPC is because they're still trying to use it like a Palm. Once I got over that, I found the PPC had some advantages over the Palm. Multitasking, in particular, comes in extremely handy, as does a real filing system. After using an iPAQ 3955 for a while, I fired up Clie Files on my NX70- what a mess! This is one area, IMHO that the Palm could improve on. On the other hand, the Palm OS doesn't seem to require as many resources as the PPC, so it just feels 'zippier.' Everything's a trade off. BTW, the audio capabilities of the iPAQ series are unsurpassed- it has to be the loudest PDA and it possesses the best audio quality for MP3 (actually, I used Windows Media format) playback and games. Check out Metalion or Rayman Ulitmate on an iPAQ if you don't believe me!

I will say that I hope that the Palm platform catches up to the PPCs for games. I agree that Zap 2016 is a great game, but it can't hold a candle to Turjah, Turjah II, Metalion, Odyssey, or any of the other great shooters on the PPC. As to constant lockups and resets, my iPAQ 3955 was much more stable than the Clie T615 I had before it. I had it running with several hacks to get the functionality out of the device I wanted, and it would crash and lock up on me daily. the iPAQ 3900 series is rock solid stable and a good performer (let the flames roll in :D )

Don't get me wrong- I love my NX70 and am thrilled with the machine for the most part; I just hope that more game developers start to take advantage of the horsepower the X-scale chips offer.

[CopyCat]

Strongest arguement for PPC so far that I have seen is games. I am new to the PDA experience all together and games are the least of my concerns when coming to my PDA. I do not need to waste my time playing games on my PDA that look like **** compared to any hand held device aka a GameBoy Advance or something to that nature.
I use my PDA for school mostly and my NX70 is awesome. I have no experience with PPC so I will not bash. But saying its a great gaming PDA is hardly an argument in my mind. Bejewled passes time thats about all I need.

Anyways at least there is this war and not a monopoly, I like that much. Always nice to be able to choose between the 2.

[jakun]

you are comparing gameboy advance n the ppc in gaming?

well of course the gameboy is design only for games but ppc can run nes full framerate n sound, gameboy full speed (sound not sure), sega game gear, and snes but without sound yet and selected games...now could u imagine how many games pirated or not that u can put into the ppc...i hear also that some people are working on gameboy advance emulator...should be no problem...it`s only a matter of time....but in my opinion getting this thing is a must compared to gameboy ;)

[slg]

I have to agree with Nemius. While I have quite a few games on my Clie, most are simple time wasters I can play before a meeting starts or before a movie starts. Just something to get me throught a few minutes. I keep Zap around for my son, but most of my time is spent on much more simple games like Spades, Yahtzee, or Vexed.

If I want high quality games, I'm going to either buy a Gameboy -- something I haven't done yet -- or play games on my PC.

Then again, if they ever ported Starcraft to the Clie, I might have to get that...

Sean.

[Tolwyn]

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned yet is the support of emulators like ScummVM for PalmOS.

Actually seeing/hearing and playing my old Secret of Monkey Island games on my NX is rather impressive. Certainly a little more involving when I'm waiting at the airport than the nth game of Bejewelled.

[Glacialeye]

Well, the point is that technically advanced games (High Resolution, High Speed, good sound and color) are possible on PalmOS 5 only in the Palm world. This means that the developers could be working on them from less than one year.
PPC had the power to do that much earlier... Let's give the devs the time to do some great thing on PalmOS too (like Picsel Viewer), and then we'll be able to discuss again...

[winCEman]

Other than time for developers to catch up to the new sonys (that will never happen, we need a better gamepad, I already have the clip on gamepad, but there is still room under the keyboard. Even the TT has a better built in game interface!

As for PPC's they have gotten of to the races a lot sooner than the palm crowd. I've been saying it all along, both palm and ppc are trying to mimic each other. PPC's are getting smaller and cheaper & Palm's (Sony's anyway) are getting faster, more multimedia minded, and more expensive!