1SRC Podcast Seventeen

[Jeff Kirvin]

1SRC Chat! Mark your calendars! Again! (recurring appointments help) We cover rumors of the Tungsten E2 and Zire 73, then spend most of the 20 minutes on the new PalmOne LifeDrive. Lastly, why is Graffiti 1 such a requirement for some people? There are lots better ways to enter data. Believe me, I know.
[details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=951)]

[jjesusfreak01]

1SRC Chat! Mark your calendars! Again! (recurring appointments help) We cover rumors of the Tungsten E2 and Zire 73, then spend most of the 20 minutes on the new PalmOne LifeDrive. Lastly, why is Graffiti 1 such a requirement for some people? There are lots better ways to enter data. Believe me, I know.
[details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=951)]
Bow to the Kirvin, the Kirvin is our leader, the Kirvin knows all.

People like G1 because you feel like you are writing something (why they dont like Fitaly), and you dont have any two stroke letters (Why they dont like G2). I knew exactly what you were going to say and I havent even listened to the PodCast yet. Ha Ha Ha :)

[Jeff Kirvin]

Two stroke letters aren't bad once you get used to them. And your penmanship on paper improves dramatically.

[JJF01]

Two stroke letters aren't bad once you get used to them. And your penmanship on paper improves dramatically.
Dont get me wrong, I exclusively use G2, im just saying what I believe are peoples problems w/ the system.

[Cyker]

Wow, JJF must be half psychic, that's a good guess ;)

But yeah, I'm a die-hard G1'er :p

Reasons? Tricky... Main reason is probably because it was the first writing entry system I used and I'm too lazy to learn another, but I'd say it is the fastest text entry system that uses writing strokes. Beyond that, you have to use things like Fitaly or a keyboard to get any faster.
When I write with G1 it's just stroke-stroke-stroke. With G2 it's stroke-stroke-pause-stroke-pause-strokestroke-stroke, and I really hate that. There are also a few letters (Like the thrice-damned t!), which I consistenly have to re-write a few times in G2 to get it to recognise, and that also annoys the heck out of me.

I can see the argument for G2 improving your penmanship, but IMHO think that's bunk, and for that argument surely Decuma or that new one (Supports joined-up handwriting, forget what it's called...) would be far far better?

For shear speed, Fitaly is great, but it's about as intuitive as a keyboard - i.e. not.
If I took the time to learn Fitaly in the same way I've learned to type, I could probably do it really fast (When you type on a keyboard long enough, muscle-memory kicks in and you instinctively know roughly where all the keys are; This is why Dvorak keyboards are so hard to learn when you've started off on a QWERTY), but again I'm just too damned lazy (And I'm too cheap to buy it :p)

The last thing is that I just feel G1 is far more elegant - Every lower case character can be written with a single stroke. Upper case and punctuation - two strokes. It just feels *designed*, whereas I found G2 felt kinda kludgy.

But these are just my opinions ;)
At the end of the day, it's horses for courses... or some weird non-sensical phrase like that ;)

[Cyker]

LifeDrive thingy - Assuming it is real, you make a very convincing argument for this to be a media player!
As a PDA, you get the feeling that it has all the specs but misses the point of a PDA *completely*, but as a media player it fits a lot better.

However, from what I've seen at cebit (Nifty vids here: http://cebit.150.dk/), the LifeDrive will have some seeeriously hard competition. I suspect it will sink into a niche the same way the Zodiac did when it tried to be the next big handheld gaming platform.
Why? Well, several people, including Sony, are releasing seriously cool dedicated media players that have 640x480px hi-res screens, streaming capabilities (In fact, Archos already has an ultra cool media-player which the guy used to make those videos!). I'm willing to bet they do it a lot better than the LifeDrive will, and are a hell of a lot cheaper than 500 to boot.
There will definitely be a lot of people who'll go for the LifeDrive, but I do not think they will be in the majority - The 'techie' PDA market, which Palm tend to ignore, would have been a much larger demographic.

That said, I am curious to see how well it performs - The FlashRAM in the T|5 already seems to lag things a bit from some accounts, although the insanely powerful CPU mitigates this a great deal. I suspect the LifeDrive on the other hand will not be a great Palm PDA - Palm proggy usage patterns usually mean accessing lots of small chunks of data scattered everywhere, while hard disk much prefer accessing long streams of data...


Graffiti1 (Now that I've listened to the Podcast ;)):
Ha! You just answered your own question too! Did you not find re-learning how to write your 't' irritating? :D
Do you think you could type that Visor article with G2? I bet you'd go insane with the constant corrections ;)
For me, G2 is just not as comfortable to use as G1. This may be an ingrained thing, and I must admit I'm prejudiced against G2, but that's how I feel.

I suspect your view comes mostly from the fact that you don't really USE G2, and prefer things like Fitaly and keyboarding. I may be in the minority here, but I use my TH55 quite heavily for work - A typical day involves me entering large amounts of itty bitty bits of data (e.g. Asset tags, IP addresses, part descriptions, serial no.s etc.) while moving around - Using a keyboard is not practical because the bits of data are so small, so I tend to use Graffiti.
When I transitioned from my T665 to my TH55, I tried G2, but found the constant corrections really really annoying. Decuma, while nice to write with, is too slow - I could peck the soft keyboard faster!
In the end I ended up back with G1 - It's simple, it's elegant, it works.

I really wish Palm would bring it back, or at least put BOTH on and give us the option of using it. Sony proved you can have multiple input methods on their Clies; Why can't Palm? It's not like they have to licence it from anyone. In fact, if they dumped G2, which they've licenced from CIC, surely it would save them some money??

While I wouldn't not buy a PDA *just* because it didn't have a single-stroke entry system like Graffiti, I must admit it would be a big turn-off.
I sometimes wonder what things would have been like if Palm had licenced TealScript instead of Jot...!

[strider_mt2k]

G1:
I know it.
I'm lazy and don't want to figure out another system, period.

The Chat:
Man am I trying to attend, but Saturday nights are busy!
I'll try again this week.

Life Drive:
I'd consider it, IF the build quality were acceptable and no major glitches do the thing in, oh, and if it exists! :D

Another great 'cast Jeff, hope you're feeling better.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Probably the biggest reason PalmOne sticks with Graffiti 2 is that it's much, much easier for noobs to pick up. Keep in mind that they're focused on new users, not upgraders. (The wisdom of that strategy is arguable, but G2 makes perfect sense given their stand...)

[Reggie]

Just a small update from our anonymous source -- No new zires. LifeDrive is coming. ;)

[jjesusfreak01]

Just a small update from our anonymous source -- No new zires. LifeDrive is coming. ;)What, no 73 with the HighRes+ screen? The photoshopped pics were so convincing too!

[E Ben G]

Thanks for the Podcasts, they're really cool.

I think you should consider putting the word 'Palm' or 'Palm OS' or 'Palm-powered' somewhere in the title over on Podcast Alley. I think very very few people looking in the technology section on that site know what '1SRC Podcast' is and so you might be losing some potential audience.

You may not care about losing potential audience on Podcast Alley, but if that's the case, why list over there at all?

[JAmerican]

LifeDrive took over the new Zire series I'm assuming.

JAmerican

[krispy]

Listened to the podcast. I still have issues about the battery. Yes, it would be a non-issue if 15 hours between charges were a constant. But they do wear out over time. My T3 was down from 2 hrs to an unacceptable 20 min between charges after 18 months before I managed to replace it. Unless the Lifedrive has overcome battery-fade, I expect to be able to swap it out, (easily). Heck, cheap cell-phones can do it, why not Palm? This would be a high-cost purchase and I would expect it to last me awhile. Analogy here is, would you buy a car that had a non-removable battery?, I don't think so. To me, non-removable batteries are a manufacturers ploy to generate more money from users by having them either buying new devices or paying the company a fee to do the swap-out.

[Jeff Kirvin]

Heck, cheap cell-phones can do it, why not Palm? This would be a high-cost purchase and I would expect it to last me awhile.

For the same reasons the iPod doesn't have a removable battery. Integrating the battery allows the device to be smaller and more sturdy.

Again, this isn't a PDA. It's a media player, a la the iPod.

[krispy]

For the same reasons the iPod doesn't have a removable battery. Integrating the battery allows the device to be smaller and more sturdy.

Again, this isn't a PDA. It's a media player, a la the iPod.


Okay, media player... What the device is, is not an issue. I have not seen any portable device be less sturdy by having a battery compartment, just the opposite. The frame of the compartment adds ribs to the overall strength, especially in the center of the case. It might add <1mm in each direction, not a big change. I would not have an iPod for the same reason.

After spending this much, one should not at a later date down the road have to toss/replace or pay a maintenance cost.

(I'm not complaining here. It just seems to be coming a bad trend among manufacturers the last few years.)

[Jeff Kirvin]

PalmOne and Apple seem to feel that an integrated battery makes for "cleaner" industrial design. Doesn't seem to have hurt iPod sales any, and PalmOne devices still sell very well, thank you.

But hey, to each his own. No one's making you buy a Life Drive if the battery's a real deal breaker for you...

[krispy]

Agree 100%....just pointing out a negative IMHO. Battery life technology and industrial design are not on equal footing.

[CroCo]

G1-G2:
As you can see below, I had many pre-G2 devices and as you can imagine, G2 made my textentry quite an experience when I first got my TH55. First I was cursing the software, then I got to the point where I cursed myself for beeing such a stubborn idiot not beeing able to pickup G2. Then I progressed and got used to G2, and think that I have two OBJECTIVE reasons why G1 is a bit better in some things, and worse in others:
G2 cons:
1. write an word like still and if you enter the space end up with stilt...THAT is annoying. I thought it was my mistake, but doing the right stroke well away from the l does not help...you just gotta wait
2. want this : or ; or " ... you gotta always wait, and that sucks.

G2 pros:
1. Uppercase is faster
2. Twostroke letters don´t take that much longer and are more intuitive for people new to palmOS

MY appeal to palmsource:
Give the user the ability of setting threshold for multistokes etc themselfes. So fast writers can lower that time and are not forced to wait for G2 to make up its mind.

Do this, and G2 might get more apreciation.


Livedrive: I belive in it when it is actually out...up to now it doesn´t seem likely...palmOne stated not to release any os6 devices, and unless the 4GB handling issues have been fixed in some OS5 version of theirs, the OS will not support it. So maybe its WinMob?

[Cyker]

Ahh, now see, the LiveDrive is interesting... if they have hacked up their own VFS driver to support the 4GB, it will most likely be FAT32 in order to support their DataImport equiv thingy.

If that's true, then there's a good chance we can nick it to allow us ALL to use 4GB+ SD/MS cards in our Palms and Clies :D
And that would rooocckk.... (Except a 4GB MS costs several times more than my TH55 did at the time of writing... :()