Cannon Digital Rebel Thoughts?

[the_iceman]

I'm one of a million who wants to upgrade my digital camera. I have an OLD Sony Mavica Digital camera (Yeah... the one what ONLY uses 1.44mb Floppies and can only take 640x480 pics).

I'm certainly no expert on digital SLRs... but certainly want to get one.

I've been fortunate to borrow my friend's Digital SLR (The Canon D20) a few times. He runs Sigma Lenses on it and has a nice 70-300mm lens (which I found very beneficial when taking some pics of my daughter playing soccer). I made the determination that I'm not able to afford the 20D and lenses/etc. I'm not single like my friend... LOL. I then looked at cameras several hundred dollars less that might actually fit my budget.... (OK... it fits the wife's budget yet will push the envelope as much as possible if I go $50 over her top-limit I'm left sleeping on the couch which I am not willing to do... hehehehehehe). I looked and read some articles about the Digital Rebel. As compared to the D20.... it has less features..etc but seems like a pretty sound camera (just don't care for the more plastic-y body). Seems like a very good all around camera. Then I looked at comporable(sp??) cameras and came across the Nikon D70 (still plastic-y body)... and did some comparisons between the 2.

Soooooooo I narrowed my choices down to the Canon Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70. Both are very 'similar' to one another in features etc. Different modes are similar, both like 6.1 or 6.3 megapixels...etc

As I've looked for some deals on the internet, I seem to have found some of the best deals on the Canon Digital Rebel packages as compared to the Nikon packages. (maybe it is because the Nikon is better... not sure).

Anyhoooooooooooooooooooooo I've seen some packages on ebay (buying from a camera shop type business) on getting the Rebel, several lenses, bag, 4gb Hitachi Microdrive card... tripod..etc for what I would consider a pretty decent price.

I just thought I'd ask any folks out here who might own a Digital Rebel ... their thoughts on the camera...etc. Pros and cons are definately welcome. Again I'm no pro-photographer. Just want a nice digital SLR that can be used for pics of the family, vacations.. you know.. all the normal stuff ... yet a little better than the cameras that fit in the shirt pocket. (that pocket is reserved for an Ipod or a PDA)

Thank you in advance for your responses!!!!!!!! :)

[Gizmo]

Let me start by saying that both the Nikon D70 and the Canon Digital Rebel are fine cameras, and in the end you will be happy with either one.

I would like to point out that due to the release of the Canon 20D, the prices of the Rebel have come down quite nicely, and in my opinion it is the better value right now (btw: the 20D has forced the price of the D70 down also.)

Although I don't own a Rebel, I have used one extensively and it is a wonderful camera (I recently purchased a 20D). As far as features go, I think you will find that they are more than adequate, especially if this is your first experience with an SLR. As your skills grow, you can always apply the firmware hack which enables extended menu items such as FEC (Flash exposure compensation), MLU (Mirror lock-up, which is very handy for long exposures and macro work), and the ability to capture Raw + Jpeg images at the same time, just to name a few.

Two things to keep in mind. A Rebel with a good quality lens will produce a better image than a D70 with a poor quality lens, and visa-versa. And always remember: The camera does not take the picture. The photographer does. :)

I would be happy to try to answer any specific questions you might have about Canon cameras. (I currently own 6 Canon SLR's :eek: )

Good luck. :)

[the_iceman]

Gizmo,

I saw your post about your 20D.... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh very very very nice camera. I borrowed my friends 2 times and it worked very well. There were a few things that I had problems with (some with the different zones being focused...etc) but did not make any adjustments to the settings he had because I don't know enough about the 20D's settings. All I know is there were lots... lol

I've used Film SLRs in the past and used to do a lot of my own 'play-photography'. Nature pics... Nightime in the city pics.. etc. Just for my own experience. Soooooo I do have some familiarity with all the workings of the SLR. Now I have to take what I do know.. and add the Digital part to it. There were just too many buttons to figure out what was what. I was proud I figured out how to do continuous shots on the thing. Also.. with the 20D not being mine.... I was very cautious what I tried 'pushing' and playing with as I didn't want to dork up his settings or set something that might have had a negative impact on the pics I was taking.

I could have gone 'more' with the camera price... but my wife decided she wanted to use money toward a 42" DLP tv for the bedroom (gotta love my wife.... ahhhhhhhhhhhh) sooooooooo my leftover funds for the camera ... are less than what I wanted. the D20 is a great camera... love the feel of it .... I've tried the Nikon D70 and it is nice. Probably similar in weight to the Rebel ... feels a little 'light' because of the body material... but probably the best fit for me.

I've seen deals... getting the Rebel (Even in Black .... which is the one I want).

The Deal I'm contemplating at the current time is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43454&item=3870453626&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

This gets me:
Rebel Body (available in Black)
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Zoom Lens
Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 AF Lens
Sigma 28-70mm f2.8-4 HIGH SPEED lens
Titanium .45x Wide Angle Lens
2 different 3-piece Filter Kits (55mm and 58mm)
Canon BG-E1 Battery Grip
Hitachi 4GB MicroDrive
Card Reader
Heavy Duty Aluminum Hard Case w/Dividers
Soft "Deluxe Carrying Case"
Tripod
Lens Cleaning Kit

All for $1380. I thought that was 'reasonable' for the entire kit..... You probably know more about the pricing structures than I do (best deals on lenses/bodies/kits).

[Gizmo]

Iceman,

With your SLR experience you will have no problem catching on to the idiosyncrasies of a DSLR. ;)

I did some quick price checking on my favorite web site that I use to purchase camera gear from (B&H Photo) and the kit your looking at appears to be a good value (With reservations - see below). If you decide to go with the black body, be prepared to pay extra.

Here are some things to think about: The filter kits included are of questionable quality at best. You really don't need the fluorescent filter because the camera has an auto white-balance feature. I highly doubt the UV filter is multi-coated, which helps protect against flair, and I really think a polarizing filter would be more useful than a neutral density at this point. Why have nice lenses and then put a cheap piece of glass (more likely plastic) on the front?

Which brings me to my next caution. The two Sigma lenses included in this kit are the low end of the Sigma line. Don't get me wrong. They make some fine lenses, but these aren't it. And that wide angle adapter may be fun to play with, but I think you will be disapointed with the quality of images taken with it.

I don't really know what to tell you about the rest of the equipment included with it. Again, I question the quality (Except the battery grip.)

Here is my advice based on my own experience. Buy quality glass. From what I've heard and read, the kit lens (EF-S 18-55) is pretty decent. If you need longer reach, I would recommend one nice lens instead of the two Sigma's offered in this deal. Also, buy quality filters. If you want a UV on the front of your lens, make sure it is glass and multi-coated.

In other words. Buy the camera with the Canon kit lens, and other better lenses seperately. In the long run I think you will be happier with the quality of your images.

I'll stop rambling now. :)

Edit - BTW, if I had a choice between getting the grip or a better lens, I would go with the lens everytime.

[the_iceman]

Gizmo.... Thank you so much for all of that information.

I guess in some ways I'm a little stuck between the rock and a hard place. While I do not question your judgement in regards to the lenses .... I'm not exactly sure where to go at this point. I guess, in some ways .... I am looking for the best 'bang for the buck'. At the present time I have no SLR .... soooooooooo from a body and lens perspective I'm starting at ground 0. I do agree and understand that there are better lenses out there.... but with the need to take photos from a decent distance (soccer pictures) .... I do feel I need a 300mm zoom to get the girls across the field (I do webmastering for multiple soccer sites). Soooooooo I guess, while I feel they might not be the best... they are a good start... with higher quality lenses and accessories to be purchased as time goes on. The 4 things which did appeal to me are:

Body/The 3 lenses/ 4gb Card (Going to Disneyland at the end of the month .... I need storage space).

I am in 100% total agreement with you about it isn't all the best-quality of lenses which come with the camera ..... but it does give me a 'start' .... the Memory Card is very good. Transfer rates are about 7mb/sec and the body is good.... just will have to 'upgrade' the lenses as I can .... I can always ebay the ones I have when I replace 'em.... LOLOL...

[Gizmo]

Iceman, you also make an excellent point. And as I mentioned, this is a good value as long as you know what your getting.

Let's face it. You are going to get way better quality pictures with this setup than ANY point and shoot digital camera. :) And a whole lot more fun taking them. :D

Good luck, and let us know how you like the camera.

[the_iceman]

Thank you so much for the information. I'm still mulling it all over at this point.... I don't like to make too 'rash of decisions' when I'm paying that much money.

I'll probably decide by the middle of next week.... as to exactly what I'll buy. There are several options available to me. I do like some of the nice USM lenses out there which are a little PRICEY ... but... you do get what you pay for I reckon....

If I get one.... I'll be sure to share my experience with it.

Oh Yeah Gizmo..... I look forward to seeing some awesome pics from your new 20D!!!!!!!!! (Wipes drool off of chin).

[Gizmo]

I can't wait for the weather to get better so I can get outside and start shooting!

OK, not a good picture but, hey, what the heck.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/916710/Image_0008.JPG

BTW: Just food for thought. For about the price of the two Sigma lenses and the battery grip, you could get this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=102854&is=GREY) Canon EF 75-300 IS USM lens. The key here is the IS (Image Stabilization) for handheld shots. Remember, at 300mm it becomes the equivalent of 480mm with the 1.6 crop factor of the Rebel. And it's USM. ;) Perfect for those soccer action shots. :)

[the_iceman]

I'm have just a smidgeon of familiarity with USM .... well... ok maybe even less than that. I do understand that the "USM" tag deals with Ultrasonic Motor. I've heard/read they are much more 'quiet' than regular lenses... but I'm not smart enough to know really.... what the difference between a 75-300 NON-USM and a 75-300 USM is to me?

Quieter (I reckon)
faster?
Which consumes more power?
advantages to USM?
Disadvantages?


I did take a look at that lens you mentioned. It looks pretty good from what I can tell. I did like the image stabilization feature of it. I didn't notice that it seemed to be a much 'faster' lens than the sigma (although I might have non been looking or reading correctly). I am sure it is a better quality lens than the sigma... :)

I like that website you provided with the link to that lens. I'm not sure if that is one you use quite a bit... but I do like their prices. They seem reasonable to me from what I've seen elsewhere.

[Alsicole]

If this helps, my husband reviewed his Rebel for Daily Gadget here: http://www.dailygadget.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151

He previously had the 300V (film SLR) and then swapped to the 300D (digital). These model numbers are the UK versions, but the camera is the same. He uses his for motor sport photography. Some of his pictures are in the gallery here www.rwbthatisme.com if you'd like to see the results with a good lense.

[Gizmo]

.... what the difference between a 75-300 NON-USM and a 75-300 USM is to me?
Faster and quieter to focus. Admittedly, this alone is not a compelling reason
to purchase a lens.
Quieter (I reckon)
faster?
Which consumes more power?
advantages to USM?
Disadvantages?
Quieter: See above.

Faster? No. It is the same speed (f1:4-5.6) That is what makes the IS so important. You can gain about two stops in handholding ability. Of course when using a lens of this length it is always better to shoot on a tripod.

Which consumes more power? No noticeable difference.

Advantages? See above.

Disadvantages? On this particular model, you cannot manually override the focus when set to AF.

I would also give the advantage to the Canon as far as build quality goes.
I like that website you provided with the link to that lens. I'm not sure if that is one you use quite a bit... but I do like their prices. They seem reasonable to me from what I've seen elsewhere.
Yes, this is the site I use the most. I've always had a good experience purchasing from them. They are very well respected in the photo world. Also Adorama.

The more I think about it, I agree that it is more important to just "get started" than fretting over some of the minor advantages or disadvantages of certain equipment (How soon I forget what it was like when I started :).) As you stated, you can always sell your equipment when your ready to upgrade. I have done this myself many times.

Good luck. :)

[the_iceman]

Thank you Alsicole for that information. I read the review as well as tood a gander at the photo gallery (too many pictures to get through... hehehehehehe. Nice pictures!

Gizmo,

Do you mostly use RAW when shooting or the 'FINE' .jpg mode? I thought when I read a review about the Canon... it creates a 'medium' quality .jpg when creating RAW. It consumes something like 7mb using RAW (including the medium quality .jpg). Do you find you use the RAW mode more... or the .jpg mode?

With me doing graphics... I should not have any issue reading in the .raw files into my photo editor software... and I do know that Canon comes with some software as well.

Back to the USM.... It seems if I already owned a good say .. 75-300 ... upgrading to USM might not be as advantageous. However it does seem to be a good feature to ensure one gets in a lens when making purchases. Good point about the Tripod. When I used the D20 with the 75-300mm Sigma Lens on it ... I didn't have much issue with 'stability'. Course I didn't drink 10 cups of coffee before I started shooting... LOLOL. The majority of the pics I will use with a higher zoom lens will be outdoors during the day (Soccer games). Usually lighting isn't too much of a problem and the shutter speed seemed to be just fine.

Seems... like using modes like the Portrait Mode or Sports Mode... only allows the creation of the image in .jpg format. You have to go more 'manual' in the settings if you want RAW images.

What do you think about the Histogram with either the Rebel or D20? I do think it is a nice feature, however most decent graphic programs (even Paint Shop Pro) which can read the RAW files has its own histogram built into the program itself. I would think this to be easier to use and manipulate the image if needed?

Soooooooooooo many questions... soooooooooooo little time... LOL

Thanks so much for answering my questions about the Digital SLR.... you have given me a lot of things to think about for the future!

[Gizmo]

Do you mostly use RAW when shooting or the 'FINE' .jpg mode? I thought when I read a review about the Canon... it creates a 'medium' quality .jpg when creating RAW. It consumes something like 7mb using RAW (including the medium quality .jpg). Do you find you use the RAW mode more... or the .jpg mode?
I use the raw capture mode whenever possible. It just gives you so much more latitude, especially over/under exposed pictures, when post-processing. Remember, the Rebel does not capture both a raw and jpeg image at the same time unless you apply the firmware hack that I mentioned above. I don't personally use this mode much anyway. The only disadvantage to raw mode is that it fills the buffer quicker and you may not be able to shoot at full speed in continuous mode for more than 6 or 7 frames.
With me doing graphics... I should not have any issue reading in the .raw files into my photo editor software... and I do know that Canon comes with some software as well.
Right. I use Adobe CS and it has a plug-in to read Canon raw files.
Back to the USM.... It seems if I already owned a good say .. 75-300 ... upgrading to USM might not be as advantageous. However it does seem to be a good feature to ensure one gets in a lens when making purchases.
Agreed.
Seems... like using modes like the Portrait Mode or Sports Mode... only allows the creation of the image in .jpg format. You have to go more 'manual' in the settings if you want RAW images.
That is correct. You have to be in one of the "creative" modes for raw file capture.
What do you think about the Histogram with either the Rebel or D20? I do think it is a nice feature, however most decent graphic programs (even Paint Shop Pro) which can read the RAW files has its own histogram built into the program itself. I would think this to be easier to use and manipulate the image if needed?
Your right. However, it is nice to be able to check to see if you got the exposure right when you are taking the picture so you can make adjustments and snap some more if needed. I use this feature a lot out in the field. I don't trust looking at the picture on the LCD.
Soooooooooooo many questions... soooooooooooo little time... LOL

Thanks so much for answering my questions about the Digital SLR.... you have given me a lot of things to think about for the future!
My pleasure! :)

[Joel]

I'm a casual photographer. I basically use the Digital Rebel for personal pictures and to help out our school for yearbook (they will be using most of my pictures).

Here's my gallery (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsuplido/) at flickr. It sorely needs some updating but I try to put my favorite pictures there.

[the_iceman]

Great Pictures Joel!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing 'em!!!!!!! :)

[Joel]

Thanks! If you ever sign up at flickr, feel free to add me to your contacts as I would do the same.

Good luck with your Rebel!

[the_iceman]

Sweet... I will surely do that!

[the_iceman]

ok.... quick update. Camera is now on order.... and due to be shipped out tomorrow.....due to arrive Friday.... *super excited*

I did end up getting the Digital Rebel. I didn't get the one package... that I listed before. It was a tough decision between the Rebel and the D70 ... but ended up with the rebel and think I'll be pretty pleased with it for the next several years.

I did end up getting:

Rebel Digital Body (Silver because they were out of the Black Camera Body)
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Zoom Lens
Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 AF Lens
Sigma 28-70mm f2.8-4 HIGH SPEED lens
2gb Hitachi Card
Card Reader
Hard Case
Soft Case
Filters (Both 55mm and 58mm)
Tripod (already have one of those .. so I can just keep on in the car.. lol)
Cleaning Kit (not worth too much there.... pretty standard little kit).


For $200 extra I got a 5yr warrenty which also gives me 1 free professional cleaning a year at a place that services Cannons (Many camera Shops can do the cleanings) and it also gave me an extended battery ..... soooooooooooo basically I ended up paying almost $1500 for the entire package (using overnight shipping at an additional $80 to ship everything with insurance) ......

All in all..... I feel pretty good about the purchase..... I look forward to getting the camera... getting the battery charged up... and the camera setup for some fun pictures.

I'll keep y'all informed :)

[SamuraiCatJB]

congrats!! :)

You know if we do similar tests between the rebel and the D70 and post them, users will get a better idea what suits them. :)

I am sure you will love yours. I need to sneak out at lunch today and snap some pictures in the residential area.... I can't here without a special badge and our photo expert is gone today... :(

[Joel]

Congrats! That's a nice package you've chosen! :)

[Gizmo]

All Right Iceman!!! :D Let us know when you get it.

[the_iceman]

congrats!! :)

You know if we do similar tests between the rebel and the D70 and post them, users will get a better idea what suits them. :)

I am sure you will love yours. I need to sneak out at lunch today and snap some pictures in the residential area.... I can't here without a special badge and our photo expert is gone today... :(
Thanks SCJB..... we should do so.... I think they are similar enough. At least spec wise. I'm pretty sure the D70 came out by Nikon to compete with the Rebel line. I think some things might be easier on the Nikon to do... but the internals should be somewhat similar. Would be great to do some 'untouched' photographs and put 'em up so people can see any differences. Great idea indeed!

[the_iceman]

Thanks! If you ever sign up at flickr, feel free to add me to your contacts as I would do the same.

Good luck with your Rebel!
Joel,

I did create a Flickr Account. I did add you as a contact in it. Since I don't have my camera yet... I uploaded a few 3d landscapes I've done in the plast... just so there is something there. :)

[Joel]

I added you as my contact too. Already saw the 3D landscapes :)

[the_iceman]

OK... quick update on the Rebel:

I did receive the camera and almost 'all' the inventory for my order.

they sent me 2 58mm lens kits .... so they have to send me a 55mm to go with my smaller lenses.

They are on 'back-order' for the Hitachi 2gb microdrive card. It is due to 'follow' at some point, although they have not told me when. I did go to BestBuy and pick up a SanDisk Ultra II 1.0gb card (pretty fast card). It has a pretty fast write speed and read speed. 1.0gb card was $139 at Bestbuy. I know I could have gotten 'em cheaper... but I wanted to play a little with the camera. Been so cold here... I was taking some pics with my camera outside... and didn't use a tripod so .... well little movement made some of my outdoor shots blury and I will change the settings and use a tripod next time.

Anyhooooooooooo on flickr I did upload 3 pics. One of my daughters playing soccer, another of my son, and lastly .... one of our 3 dogs.

:)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_iceman

[Joel]

Hey! We used to have LOTS of Pekingese! :) Nice shots. I believe at this point, you're amazed with the clarity of the shots ;)

[the_iceman]

Yes... the clarity is awesome. I even resized the picture of Jeeves down a little to 2048x1365. Even with the resize and using a .jpg compression of YCbCr 1x1 1x1 1x1 with a compression factor of only 1 the pic is still 1.4mb at full size. You can see each hair on him with real clarity. Great camera... very pleased with it thus far. I do needa get a real 'flash' for it.... but that'll come soon :)

[SamuraiCatJB]

Looks great! I don't know how to use flikr yet, but I signed up and will learn. :)

[the_iceman]

Hey! We used to have LOTS of Pekingese! :)
Jeeves is a Pekingese/Shih-Tzu miz. I don't know if there is a formal name for 'em.... but pretty much everyone calls 'em a Peki-Shiht or Peka-Shiht. He definately has more the face of the Pekingese but the hair is more a real 'blend' between the two. Probably more Shih-Tzu than Pekingese. I'll have to get some good pics of our GreatDane Puppy. 14weeks... and over 50lbs so far. :)

[Gizmo]

Iceman,

Nice photos. :) Very sharp also! By the looks of the picture taken with your 28-80, I'd say you got a great deal on your package. Good job! :)

BTW: I have also joined flikr. I go by Canon Monkey. I have only one picture posted there now. It's of my 37 Chevy, taken on Polaroid film and scanned. I'll try to get some others up taken with my 20D soon. Happy shooting.

Here is a link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/canon_monkey/

[SamuraiCatJB]

okay, I got my name in. :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/samurai_cat/ Those are all from my other cameras at the moment.

[the_iceman]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee gonna add both of you samuraicatjb and gizmo :)

[the_iceman]

great pics...... don't forget to add me and Joel as contacts :)

[the_iceman]

easier to do open heart surgery I fink... than learn all the buttons on these new-fandangled Digital SLRs... LOL

[SamuraiCatJB]

easier to do open heart surgery I fink... than learn all the buttons on these new-fandangled Digital SLRs... LOL

actually, that is the one thing I like most about the Nikon. Although almost everything is designed for two handed operation (left hand presses button, right hand turns a dial or presses a button), it's easy to do once you learn a couple. I can go through the press dial functions fast, ISO, WB, etc. Not as easy as realtime 3D graphics, but definately easier than open-heart surgery. ;)

[the_iceman]

Kinda the same thing with the Rebel. When you are using a "Creative Mode" whether it be fully manual, or something like Program AE etc.... use the cursor pad to activate an option (such as ISO Setting )... then use the thumbwheel at the top (just behind the shutter button) to set it. takes one extra button click to use a specific zone for focusing with the digital rebel than it does with the Nikon.

I do like the ability to pre-configure some settings (sharpness, contrast..etc) to use quickly. Can save 3 custom settings to easily use when needed with certain types of shots. :)

[SamuraiCatJB]

I do like the ability to pre-configure some settings (sharpness, contrast..etc) to use quickly. Can save 3 custom settings to easily use when needed with certain types of shots. :)

That's what I need to look for tonight. I know you save preferences for P-S-A shot modes. On my point and shoot Nikon, it was the same, but had the ability to store two sets of preferences, I need to find how to switch sets on the D70 to see how many saved preferences I have on it.

[the_iceman]

Added a few pics of our other 2 dawgs to flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_iceman

(oh... SamuraiCatjb..... in case you were not aware... if you are logged into flicker and pull up a pic... there is a 'different sizes' option above the picture. You can view pictures in the original uploaded size... etc. I didn't know if you were aware of this or not.)

[the_iceman]

I threw a few pics taken from the vacation to disneyland. Beautiful scenery during the drive down. Just wanted to post a few of them on flickr :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_iceman

[Felixthecat]

I've seen that the Rebel Digital is cheaper and cheaper now that the Rebel XT is going to be released....

Could you tell me the real price right now in the US? I'm planning a trip to the US and maybe I will get this camera...

Maybe I'm going to San Antonio could you recomend me a place where I can get it?

Thanks in advance...

[Gizmo]

At B & H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=297500&is=REG) you can find it (body only) for $699. That's about as cheap as any legitimate seller right now.

Sorry, don't know about any places in San Antonio.

[Felixthecat]

At B & H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=297500&is=REG) you can find it (body only) for $699. That's about as cheap as any legitimate seller right now.

Sorry, don't know about any places in San Antonio.

Thanks Gizmo.... B&H ships to Mexico..... :) But I'm afraid of the taxes that the Mexican Authorities could charge me if I buy it from B&H.... I'll investigate if I can get it cheaper in Texas.... And of course!!! I want to get it from a legal reseller!!

Thanks!!! Regards,

[the_iceman]

Been playing a little with my digital rebel.....

Added a black&white set. Granted not all of these are true black and white. I've been doing some 'filter' playing with the pictures as you will be able to see.

Some have had a little color re-added ... or sepia ... some lighting/shadowing changes and/or even some hand tinting ..... They have been uploaded to flickr in my area ... but if you wanted a direct link it is.......

http://flickr.com/photos/the_iceman/sets/160090/

[Gizmo]

Great pictures iceman! Keep up the good work.

Happy shooting. :)