MDA IV: UX50 copy-cat

[shriek]

I know, the title might sound a bit sensationalistic but I saw one of the worst ux50-form PDAs out there: the MDA IV (http://www.infosyncworld.net/2005/02/02/gfx/t_mobile_mda_iv_03.jpg)

The UX50 special clamshell format might not be trademark or unique but it is certainly the best know PDA with that format so everything that comes after it I consider it a copy-cat :P

[rcxAsh]

Lol. Would you consider the UX a copy-cat of the TabletPCs that came out before it?

Hehe. Joking. Anyways, that device in the picture is either extremely small.. or extremely thick. The proportions just don't look pretty IMO.

The UX looks nice all around... but then again. I'm just a bias UX40 user...

EDIT
It's extremely small:
http://www.infosyncworld.net/2005/02/02/gfx/t_mobile_mda_iv_02.jpg

Wow. A VGA screen on that tiny thing? My eyes would strain like crazy I'd think...

[.PoNeH]

Honestly...depending on what that little thing has inside, it might just be worth it. It's small, tablet, nice keys and has a camera. Yeah, it's hideous, but it's all about functionability in my opinion.

Still sticking to my UX though...till it dies

[Marko]

If this thing came anywhere near $500-$600, I would jump ship in a heartbeat! It likely won't, though. Also, it'll probably be a year or more before we see it. And by then, Sony will be back in the PDA market! Right?!? Right?!? Ehh...

[JAmerican]

If this thing came anywhere near $500-$600, I would jump ship in a heartbeat! It likely won't, though. Also, it'll probably be a year or more before we see it. And by then, Sony will be back in the PDA market! Right?!? Right?!? Ehh...

I agree. One word... Phone. This is the dream device I've been looking for. I'll wait until refurbs are sold, then I'll get one.

JAmerican

[gweilo8888]

Specs aren't even available for this device yet, so I guess we wait and see. It has even more wasted space around the screen than the UX50 though, and the camera is in a *terrible* position.

[exNewt]

"has a camera" - actually has 2.
http://brighthand.com/article/T-Mobile_Germany_Announces_MDA_IV

I agree with JAmerican, this is a dream come true; and for those that don't know/remember, Sony showed a prototype UX50 replacement that had no bluetooth but had a phone inside. If only...

[shriek]

exNewt, I don't remeber that prototype, could you provide a link to it...

Well, I did forget about tabletsPCs but I was not only think about the swivel screen I was thinking about the overall design of the PDA: UX40/50 is just the best conceived chamshell/swivel-screened PDA. But of course... I'm also a biased UX50 user :P

[hmmpdaplease]

That article heading on the brighthand page is a tad wrong... its not the first Clamshell Pocket PC Phone by a long way... the motorola Mpx200 was the first....then the MPX220 and the soon on its way new MPX300 which will have wifi a keyboard and bluetooth.
One problem with all of them.... they all run windows mobile which is frankly pants compared to the Palm OS.

[eskasi]

I have found my UX50 replacement. When this comes out, it is bye bye to the Palm Platform. I am already doing research on the PPC platform. I love my UX and my Razr....but I can finally have the perfect form factor/size with VGA screen and built in phone. Plus all the same connectivity and more (BT, WiFi, etc)

I really dont care about cost. My UX cost me over $500 and my Razr cost me $700 when it came out. To all the PPC bashers out there, Win Mobile 2003 is quite stable...2005 should be fantastic.....

Finally no more Memory stick prices.....I will get those new SanDisk SD cards with built in USB connectivity. Right now, I have to carry a Sony USB microdrive with MS Reader....

So many reasons to change..... I love my UX.....but this is the end for me and Sony/Palm (for now).

[Tuor]

That article heading on the brighthand page is a tad wrong... its not the first Clamshell Pocket PC Phone by a long way... the motorola Mpx200 was the first....then the MPX220 and the soon on its way new MPX300 which will have wifi a keyboard and bluetooth.
One problem with all of them.... they all run windows mobile which is frankly pants compared to the Palm OS.

Wow, the MPX300 totally rocks, besides that is runs mobil windows and costs $1199.99, it seems like the UX50 plus phone, everything we wanted, perfect:)

[Cyker]

That screen looks painfully small. I mean, the UX50's screen is already uncomfortably small, esp. compared to a TH's, but that looks like Eyestrain City...! :eek:

[eskasi]

That screen looks painfully small. I mean, the UX50's screen is already uncomfortably small, esp. compared to a TH's, but that looks like Eyestrain City...! :eek:

It looks a bit bigger than the UX Screen which I am ok with. I would hate for it to be too big anyway.

Still, I will make my final decision only after this baby has been released and reviewed.....just like everyone else. Many things COULD go wrong.....lousy hinge, bad keys, poor reception, sad standard battery life with WiFi (probably still better than my UX50!), etc.

In spite of that, this is the closest I have come to finding a winning combo for converged devices. After the P800 which I dumped for a UX and a T610 (now a Razr), nothing else has made me drool till this thing came along. Can't wait for a release by O2, TMobile or i-mate.........gimmie gimmie gimmie!

[shriek]

eskasi: like yourself I tried a P800 for about a month before selling it and bought a used (but good as new!) ux50.
But, I don't know about you, I've tried to live with a PPC (actualy it was my first PDA as you can tell from my signature) before I have even tried a Palm OS and believe me: I wouldn't switch back to PPC unless Microsoft seriously recreate the OS from scratch.

[rcxAsh]

The PPC you had was an older one. People have apparently said that the newer Windows Mobile is much better?

Just wondering what is it about PPC that people here don't like about it?

I doubt that I would ever switch to PPC (unless there was nothing else in the market), but my reasons are more for extreme bias than any valid reasons.

Anyways. Still, I will make my final decision only after this baby has been released and reviewed.....just like everyone else. Many things COULD go wrong.....lousy hinge, bad keys, poor reception, sad standard battery life with WiFi (probably still better than my UX50!), etc.This is true. The keyboard looks somewhat sketchy IMO. Then again, never know till you actually try it.

Also, I see no hint/mention of a backlit keyboard? I've begun to grow dependant on a backlit keyboard... in the dark when you can't see much, it's better than fumbling for keys.

[eskasi]

Also, I see no hint/mention of a backlit keyboard? I've begun to grow dependant on a backlit keyboard... in the dark when you can't see much, it's better than fumbling for keys.


Exactly...although I now hear that the hinge is stainless steel like the ones on Sony Handicams.

From what I read in Howard forums, right now it is meant to be closed with screen UP. No screen on outside cover (Behind touchscreen).....not like UX50 where screen is protected.....when u want to use keyboard instead of stylus, flip up and swivel around.....

Apparently final specs may still be changed. I hope they let u close the unit to protect the screen in the final release. I can still live with using a BT headset to answer/make calls.

[shriek]

People have apparently said that the newer Windows Mobile is much better?

Just wondering what is it about PPC that people here don't like about it?


Well, those people might be right, but if they had tried Palm OS they would see that WM2k3 is still eons from ease of use of Palm OS (POS).

Just to number a few examples:
- programs still do not close properly when we tick the close button (at least not out of the box!)
- there is no hotsyncing, at least as in POS: you do not completely sync everything (everything means including the system preferences) when you hit the button as in POS.
- Apps coded for PPC are usualy much havier than the equivalents from POS.
- Memory management is just as a hassle as in a normal PC (the problem with Windows mobile is that Microsoft thought that PDA users would like a desktop-like interface for a handheld!)
- CPU speed management does not seems as fine as in UX50.

Of course I cannot generalize to all PPC or POS PDAs, there are good PPCs (though not as good as) good POS PDAs, but overall impression of the systems tends to favour POS.

[rcxAsh]

From what I read in Howard forums, right now it is meant to be closed with screen UP. No screen on outside cover (Behind touchscreen).....not like UX50 where screen is protected.....when u want to use keyboard instead of stylus, flip up and swivel around.....

Apparently final specs may still be changed. I hope they let u close the unit to protect the screen in the final release. I can still live with using a BT headset to answer/make calls.
That would be quite strange... I don't see why they couldn't do it either. The UX does it. The clamshell Sharp Zaurus does it. Many TabletPCs do this. I do understand that most users would probably be used to having the screen exposed at all times (when someone calls, it may be a hassle to do the old flip & twist. Not everyone will use a BT headset).

Though, I do think they should allow it to be used naturally in both configurations in this case then.
Well, those people might be right, but if they had tried Palm OS they would see that WM2k3 is still eons from ease of use of Palm OS (POS).

Just to number a few examples:
- programs still do not close properly when we tick the close button (at least not out of the box!)
- there is no hotsyncing, at least as in POS: you do not completely sync everything (everything means including the system preferences) when you hit the button as in POS.
- Apps coded for PPC are usualy much havier than the equivalents from POS.
- Memory management is just as a hassle as in a normal PC (the problem with Windows mobile is that Microsoft thought that PDA users would like a desktop-like interface for a handheld!)
- CPU speed management does not seems as fine as in UX50.

Of course I cannot generalize to all PPC or POS PDAs, there are good PPCs (though not as good as) good POS PDAs, but overall impression of the systems tends to favour POS.
Thanks for your info, things only learned from experience I guess. One of your points that scares me the most, "Microsoft thought that PDA users would like a desktop-like interface." I'm okay with this statement in general. Except for the fact that I'm not too partial to Microsoft's desktop interfaces. Thanks for the explanations!

[JAmerican]

That would be quite strange... I don't see why they couldn't do it either. The UX does it. The clamshell Sharp Zaurus does it. Many TabletPCs do this. I do understand that most users would probably be used to having the screen exposed at all times (when someone calls, it may be a hassle to do the old flip & twist. Not everyone will use a BT headset).

Though, I do think they should allow it to be used naturally in both configurations in this case then.

Thanks for your info, things only learned from experience I guess. One of your points that scares me the most, "Microsoft thought that PDA users would like a desktop-like interface." I'm okay with this statement in general. Except for the fact that I'm not too partial to Microsoft's desktop interfaces. Thanks for the explanations!

I heard the same thing, Microsoft tried to simulate the Desktop experience in their PDAs. But I have yet tot sample a PPC so I can't make a judgement call until I do. I really want that phone though.

JAmerican

[exNewt]

FWIW - if you ever want to see how a PDA interface SHOULD work - check out info on Newton OS 2 or 2.1

[Marko]

[QUOTE=shriek]
- programs still do not close properly when we tick the close button (at least not out of the box!)
--Wisbar is free and works well. Don't tell me you didn't alter the Palm's OS to make it work better for you: zlauncher, appshelf, etc.

- there is no hotsyncing, at least as in POS: you do not completely sync everything (everything means including the system preferences) when you hit the button as in POS.
--Syncing with Activesync is so easy; just put the device in the cradle. Any change on the computer is changed on the PDA automatically. I've never had an issue with the system preferences not being synced...

- Apps coded for PPC are usualy much havier than the equivalents from POS.
--Yeah, and they're usually much better coded.

- Memory management is just as a hassle as in a normal PC (the problem with Windows mobile is that Microsoft thought that PDA users would like a desktop-like interface for a handheld!)
--Wow, it's really hard to slide the memory manager bar towards more storage memory or more active memory...Which I never have to do...Because my PDA will usually do that work for me.

- CPU speed management does not seems as fine as in UX50.
--Yeah, if you're using a 3835. The newer OSes and CPUs are much faster than in the old days.
QUOTE]

[shriek]

Hi marko,

What I seek with appshelf is not exactly easy of use but a way to customize the launcher (wallpaper, mostly) and I know there must be freeware out-there that do exactly what I want but I'm discussing the options Microsoft made to not include such feutures in the out-of-box Pocket PC.

By a complete Hotsync I mean: if you happen to have a serious crash and the PPC either hard resets itself (just as happen to me) or you've no choice and have to hard reset it yourself would you have your entire Pocket system restore on the next sync? Last time I checked you wouldn't :P

--Yeah, and they're usually much better coded.
Well..., I'm stating a fact, you're making a quality judgement. Certainly there are good and bad code on both systems.

--Wow, it's really hard to slide the memory manager bar towards more storage memory or more active memory...Which I never have to do...Because my PDA will usually do that work for me.
You're right, it is not THAT hard, but you don't even have to deal with it on a Palm OS :P

--Yeah, if you're using a 3835. The newer OSes and CPUs are much faster than in the old days.
Of course! just look at Pa1m0ne, they started using Intel chips! But neverthless it is the quantity/quality ratio that I'm judging here. A 123Mhz HHEngine (with DSP) from Sony would seem much slower than the state-of-the-art Intel chip (500Mhz+ if I'm not mistaken) but amazingly I can do exactly the same stuff on both machines. (It's like comparing a Apple machine to a Winx86 machine) Watch a movie, play a game (ok, on this gaming front PPC seems to be leading if not couting with zodiac), read an ebook while hearing some music... etc...

But in the end I must say that it can only be good that you could fit yourself with a Pocket PC... unfortunately I can't say the same. Pocket PC market seems to be evolving faster lately and I wish I could go back to MS OSs without loosing what I've gained when moved to Palm OS.
But I would still wait for any ideas Sony would come up after the Cell chip is released. After the Handheld Engine I think Sony has a future in this portable chip market (with or without Toshiba/IBM)

[Marko]

What I seek with appshelf is not exactly easy of use but a way to customize the launcher (wallpaper, mostly) and I know there must be freeware out-there that do exactly what I want but I'm discussing the options Microsoft made to not include such feutures in the out-of-box Pocket PC.
--All that I was meaning was that neither OS is perfect, and 90% or more of us seek ways to improve our devices with 3rd party software.

By a complete Hotsync I mean: if you happen to have a serious crash and the PPC either hard resets itself (just as happen to me) or you've no choice and have to hard reset it yourself would you have your entire Pocket system restore on the next sync? Last time I checked you wouldn't :P
--I've only had one hard reset since I've owned my PPC with WM2003. It was my fault-I did a soft reset and accidently hit the power button at the same time (DOH!). I didn't have to use my computer to resync; the newer Ipaqs (and I presume others) come with a backup program that restores everything from a card (or the PC). Even my system preferences seemed to be restored.

--Yeah, and they're usually much better coded.
Well..., I'm stating a fact, you're making a quality judgement. Certainly there are good and bad code on both systems.
--Okay, that may have been a little harsh, but I have both OSes, and I have to say that games, books (e.g. skyscape), and the like seem to work better on the PPC than equivalents on the Palm, despite the fact that they may be an extra half-megabyte bigger.

--Wow, it's really hard to slide the memory manager bar towards more storage memory or more active memory...Which I never have to do...Because my PDA will usually do that work for me.
You're right, it is not THAT hard, but you don't even have to deal with it on a Palm OS :P
--Technically, you don't have to deal with it on the PPC. I actually let the PDA adjust the memory for me so that I get the best range of storage and usable memory. This is the UX forum, so you can't tell me the UX's memory system is easier than the PPC's!

--Yeah, if you're using a 3835. The newer OSes and CPUs are much faster than in the old days.
Of course! just look at Pa1m0ne, they started using Intel chips! But neverthless it is the quantity/quality ratio that I'm judging here. A 123Mhz HHEngine (with DSP) from Sony would seem much slower than the state-of-the-art Intel chip (500Mhz+ if I'm not mistaken) but amazingly I can do exactly the same stuff on both machines. (It's like comparing a Apple machine to a Winx86 machine) Watch a movie, play a game (ok, on this gaming front PPC seems to be leading if not couting with zodiac), read an ebook while hearing some music... etc...
--I fail to see your point here; initially it was that the Palm systems seemed speedier than the PPCs. I do agree that the PPC OS was horribly slow in the old days, but the new OSes are more efficient, and the faster processors help.

But in the end I must say that it can only be good that you could fit yourself with a Pocket PC
--On the contrary, I continue to use my UX50 as my daily device. My Ipaq 4355, while IMO a great device with better 3rd party software, has no built in screen protection, and all the cases I have found make it difficult to use the thumb keyboard or make the device too bulky. I didn't want to make this a "which OS is better?" thread, but when I saw your reply to the above novice user, I felt it necessary to say that things are actually very, very good on "the dark side." If this new device ever comes to fruition, I'll likely dump the UX in a heartbeat!

[shriek]

--My Ipaq 4355, while IMO a great device with better 3rd party software,
You're right, although I find annoying some of the problems I mentioned above I consider PPC a good platform. I think that the major develpment power is with "the dark side" nowadays and things on Palm OS are cooling down (since Sony left the market, as I'm aware...) but those who agree that Palm OS still have better usability might wonder why the Microsoft juggernaught is not working to produce software on their level.

I'm just a happy spoiled UX50 user :)

[cktlcmd]

Same here, if this device really comes out. I'll be switching over myself. It seems to be a good start for a PPC smartphone with a clamshell design. Let us hope it supports the BT headset, then it would be perfect.

[JAmerican]

I'll use my device for about 3 yrs probably before I switch only if it is really necessary.
I'm also liking the Sony Ericsson S710a.

JAmerican

[.PoNeH]

This device is so damn ugly though. I'm going for the BenQ P50. It's got everything you need and more.

[Marko]

I'll use my device for about 3 yrs probably before I switch only if it is really necessary.
I'm also liking the Sony Ericsson S710a.

JAmerican
3 Years?!? You have alot of self-control. I thought I was doing good when I went a year with my TG50.

As for the BenQ, I like it; however, I'll probably have the same problem with it that I do the 4355: no screen cover. No screen cover means you have to buy a case. Cases add bulk and weight. So, unless they do something otherwise, I'll likely not buy it.

Have you guys heard of Ipaq's latest? A 6500 series. Has a 240x240 screen. Talk about regressing.

[.PoNeH]

Ewww...that's sad. Why would they do that? Are they trying to hit the $50 market?