Is the Sandisk 1gb SD Card a Dog?

[stevejohnson460]

I'm thinking about upgrading to a 1 gb SD card for my T3. I've read the threads about write speeds, and KNOW the Panasonic card is the best, hands down.

But the price tag is killing me. A Panasonic card is easily twice the cost of a Sandisk.

Is ANYBODY satisfied with the performance of the large capacity, slow cards?

[HBL]

I've been wondering the same thing for the exact same reason. I've been looking at this, http://www.sandisk.com/retail/ext3-sd.asp. Price averages between 109-129 for 1 GB card.

[Zano2004]

I've been wondering the same thing for the exact same reason. I've been looking at this, http://www.sandisk.com/retail/ext3-sd.asp. Price averages between 109-129 for 1 GB card.
I'm using a Sandisk Ultra II 512 MByte SD card. The difference from a "regular" Sandisk card is noticeable. I'd hold-out for the Extreme or Ultra (which appear to have the same speed) 1 GByte SD card. Transferring to and from the Ultra card is slowed if you use the T|T5's transfer, but put the Ultra in a USB2 reader/writer and it will fly!

[HBL]

My new Sandisk Extreme III 1GB card arrived today.

Here are my test results


VFSMark Results Extreme Test 1

File Create: 361%
File Delete: 188%
File Write: 212%
File Read: 760%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 182%
DB Import: 1074%
Record Access: 882%
Resource Access: 872%

VFSMark: 622


VFSMark Results Extreme Test2

File Create: 360%
File Delete: 191%
File Write: 211%
File Read: 748%
File Seek: 1311%
DB Export: 187%
DB Import: 1059%
Record Access: 822%
Resource Access: 853%

VFSMark: 638

As you can probably tell, I'm a very happy camper now :D

I purchased the card for 115.00. Panasonic watch out!! :rolleyes:

[Zano2004]

Where did you purchase it?

[tanker_bob]

Very impressive write results. How long did the tests take to execute?

[HBL]

Where did you purchase it?

B&H Camera/Photo in NYC. Shipping was an additional 4.95. It arrived in 3days. I am very happy with their service. The retail box also includes a vinyl zippered pouch with a key chain ring that can hold 2 SD cards in their protective plastic cases. Also included is a mini disc containing recovery software called RescuePro V1.0. I haven't installed the software, so I can't comment on it's use.





Very impressive write results. How long did the tests take to execute?

I timed it at 36 seconds. My latest write score dropped to 198% this morning.
:o So it looks like YMMV. All in all I'm glad I took the chance and purchased the card.:)

[DeanDC10]

You should just get a Lexar 1GB SD card. They have good performance and are about $60 to $70.

I don't think I would get a SanDisk for any purpose no matter how cheap they might be. You get what you pay for sometimes.

Check here:

http://www.outpost.com/entry?sku=4226994

Lexar 1GB SD card $44 after rebate

[Zano2004]

[QUOTE=HBL]B&H Camera/Photo in NYC. Shipping was an additional 4.95. It arrived in 3days. I am very happy with their service. The retail box also includes a vinyl zippered pouch with a key chain ring that can hold 2 SD cards in their protective plastic cases. Also included is a mini disc containing recovery software called RescuePro V1.0. I haven't installed the software, so I can't comment on it's use.
QUOTE]
Thanks

[HBL]

You should just get a Lexar 1GB SD card. They have good performance and are about $60 to $70.

I don't think I would get a SanDisk for any purpose no matter how cheap they might be. You get what you pay for sometimes.

Check here:

http://www.outpost.com/entry?sku=4226994

Lexar 1GB SD card $44 after rebate

Dean, it's all good. Everyone should get what they want according to their need and pocket book. Your happy with your Lexar. I'm verrrrry happy with my Sandisk Extreme :D

I also bought the Sandisk with the future in mind. I own a Nikon D70 digital SLR. Right now compact flash is the prefered media card for most pro equipment. At some point in the future I expect that to change to SD. When that happens and if I chose to buy another camera body, I will have SD cards capabable of accepting writes from the camera buffer at speeds around 20mb. Not too shabby! :)

[Zano2004]

HBL;
I have one coming from B&H Camera/Photo in NYC. My music collection is way to big for 512 Megs and I don't care to invest in slow technology. I've been looking for a gig of FAST SD card. I couldn't even get one from Sandisk. Thanks again!

[tanker_bob]

I timed it at 36 seconds. My latest write score dropped to 198% this morning.
:o So it looks like YMMV. All in all I'm glad I took the chance and purchased the card.:)
That time is about the same as my 512MB Panasonic. Sounds like you hit pay dirt! Thanks for posting your results.

[HBL]

HBL;
I have one coming from B&H Camera/Photo in NYC. My music collection is way to big for 512 Megs and I don't care to invest in slow technology. I've been looking for a gig of FAST SD card. I couldn't even get one from Sandisk. Thanks again!


No problem. When you get your card, please post your scores. I'm curious to see what others are getting.

:)

[stevejohnson460]

Nice report, HBL. Thanks for participating in the thread. I, too, will watch additional score posts with interest.

How often do you folks "back up" your SD card data by making a copy of it on your computer hard disk?

[Zano2004]

My Sandisk Extreme III 1GByte SD card arrived this morning. I can't give you all the detail offered before, but I used a Sandisk USB 2 card reader to load it with 450 MBytes of music. It took 50 seconds. Sandisk claims 20 MBytes a second. My measurement was NOT very precise, but it indicates 9 to 10 MBytes a second. That's pretty fast. The transfer rate using the Tungsten T5's file transfer or Drive mode is slower. The transfer rate using both methods is noticeable faster on an Extreme III than on a Sandisk Ultra II, which is rated at 10 MByte per second by Sandisk.

[Zano2004]

No problem. When you get your card, please post your scores. I'm curious to see what others are getting.

:)
I'm clueless about what to use to make the measurements.... Fill me in?

[tanker_bob]

VFSMark at http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/vfsmark.shtml . Best results with the card empty.

[Zano2004]

VFSMark at http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/vfsmark.shtml . Best results with the card empty.

Thanks Tanker_Bob. I downloaded vfsmark, ran it here are the results of 3 tests:

#1 VFSMark Results

File Create: 559%
File Delete: 1030%
File Write: 380%
File Read: 662%
File Seek: 1475%
DB Export: 311%
DB Import: 397%
Record Access: 1167%
Resource Access: 1129%

VFSMark: 790

#2 VFSMark Results

File Create: 1239%
File Delete: 906%
File Write: 450%
File Read: 662%
File Seek: 1475%
DB Export: 359%
DB Import: 423%
Record Access: 1167%
Resource Access: 1129%

VFSMark: 867

#3 VFSMark Results

File Create: 1256%
File Delete: 871%
File Write: 450%
File Read: 662%
File Seek: 1475%
DB Export: 316%
DB Import: 433%
Record Access: 1167%
Resource Access: 1129%

VFSMark: 862

p.s. The tests were run on an empty Sandisk Extreme III 1GByte SD Card on a PalmOne Tungsten T5.

[HBL]

Zano,

Wow!! Damm good scores! :D

[Zano2004]

Zano,

Wow!! Damm good scores! :D

What PDA are you using?

[HBL]

^^

Tungsten T3

[Zano2004]

^^

Tungsten T3
Seems strange that my scores are that much higher when the T5 isn't that much faster. Was your card empty when you ran the tests?

[Zano2004]

I compared the Extreme III 1 Gig card with my Sandisk Ultra II 512 Meg card:

VFSMark Results for Extreme III
File Create: 1239%
File Delete: 871%
File Write: 485%
File Read: 653%
File Seek: 1311%
DB Export: 385%
DB Import: 431%
Record Access: 1167%
Resource Access: 1163%

VFSMark: 856

VFSMark Results for Ultra II
File Create: 1234%
File Delete: 860%
File Write: 456%
File Read: 672%
File Seek: 1475%
DB Export: 371%
DB Import: 446%
Record Access: 1131%
Resource Access: 1163%

VFSMark: 867

Sandisk rates the Extreme III faster than the Ultra II: 20MBytes a second vs. 10 Mbyte a second. So the above results seems strange. Both cards were about half full with data.

[HBL]

^^

This makes me wonder about the validity of the VFSMark test. My results with an Ultra II SD disk had a very dismal write speed around 47% with the T3.

[tanker_bob]

I looks like VFSMark is testing the internal flash drive on the T5, not the SD card. VFSMark was written before two cards were present in Palm devices, so it's probably testing the first "card" it finds which is the T5 internal. I don't know if there's a way to make it do the SD card in stead of the internal flash card on the T5.

[StoneRyno]

I looks like VFSMark is testing the internal flash drive on the T5, not the SD card. VFSMark was written before two cards were present in Palm devices, so it's probably testing the first "card" it finds which is the T5 internal. I don't know if there's a way to make it do the SD card in stead of the internal flash card on the T5.

Yes you can test both. It will 1st ask about "unknown" or something of that nature if you select no it will then ask you if you wish to run the test on "SD card" or similar statement and by clicking yes it will run the tests on the SD card.

Here are the stats from my T5

VFSMark Results (internal drive)

File Create: 1150%
File Delete: 871%
File Write: 378%
File Read: 653%
File Seek: 1311%
DB Export: 336%
DB Import: 423%
Record Access: 1206%
Resource Access: 1163%

VFSMark: 832

VFSMark Results PQI 1 GB

File Create: 1229%
File Delete: 871%
File Write: 56%
File Read: 552%
File Seek: 842%
DB Export: 170%
DB Import: 311%
Record Access: 928%
Resource Access: 853%

VFSMark: 645

[Zano2004]

I just ran VFSMark on 3 different SD Cards on my T3 and on 2 Cards on my T5. I was able to test the SD Card and the Internal separately using the method StoneRyno points out. What doesn't make sense to me is that when using a USB2 Sandisk card reader there is a noticeable difference in speed between the three with the Extreme III by far faster than is reflected in the following results:

VFSMark Results for regular Sandisk 512Mbyte SD Card on T3
File Create: 205%
File Delete: 67%
File Write: 66%
File Read: 748%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 57%
DB Import: 930%
Record Access: 822%
Resource Access: 853%

VFSMark: 535

VFSMark Results for Sandisk Ultra II 512 Mbyte SD Card on T3
File Create: 780%
File Delete: 485%
File Write: 85%
File Read: 736%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 205%
DB Import: 941%
Record Access: 861%
Resource Access: 834%

VFSMark: 666

VFSMark Results for Sandisk Extreme III 1 Gbyte SD Card on T3
File Create: 318%
File Delete: 170%
File Write: 204%
File Read: 760%
File Seek: 1180%
DB Export: 196%
DB Import: 1031%
Record Access: 822%
Resource Access: 853%

VFSMark: 614

VFSMark Results for Internal on T5
File Create: 1245%
File Delete: 819%
File Write: 478%
File Read: 662%
File Seek: 1475%
DB Export: 353%
DB Import: 416%
Record Access: 1206%
Resource Access: 1200%

VFSMark: 872

VFSMark Results for Extreme III on T5
File Create: 315%
File Delete: 166%
File Write: 219%
File Read: 515%
File Seek: 983%
DB Export: 212%
DB Import: 345%
Record Access: 724%
Resource Access: 738%

VFSMark: 468

Something tells me that VFSMark is goofy. :confused:

[Zano2004]

I should also note that I run Backup Plus (the thing on a PalmOne Card) that was updated by Palm in December. Backing-up to the Ultra II is fast, but it's a lot faster on the Extreme III.

[Lance]

What about the Ultra II on the T5?

Thanks,
Lance

[Zano2004]

What about the Ultra II on the T5?

Thanks,
Lance

VFSMark Results for Ultra II on T5
File Create: 793%
File Delete: 447%
File Write: 75%
File Read: 498%
File Seek: 842%
DB Export: 271%
DB Import: 317%
Record Access: 754%
Resource Access: 698%

VFSMark: 521

[Zano2004]

Perhaps I should add that the tests I did today were on cards that were about 50% full.

[StoneRyno]

The items I put it bold italic text seem to not make any sense why they would be lower on the T5 vs the T3 when the others show better % or was ~1% variation. I added in some calculations. There is some similarity in the differences but it just seems odd.

Perhaps running a series of tests to make sure the data isn't an anomaly.

From Zano2004:
VFSMark Results for Sandisk Ultra II 512 Mbyte SD Card on T3
File Create: 780%
File Delete: 485%
File Write: 85%
File Read: 736%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 205%
DB Import: 941%
Record Access: 861%
Resource Access: 834%

VFSMark: 666

VFSMark Results for Ultra II on T5
File Create: 793%
File Delete: 447% 7.8% lower
File Write: 75% 11.8% lower
File Read: 498% 32.3% lower
File Seek: 842% 21.5% lower
DB Export: 271%
DB Import: 317% 66.3% lower
Record Access: 754% 12.4% lower
Resource Access: 698% 16.3% lower

VFSMark: 521 21.8% lower overall

VFSMark Results for Sandisk Extreme III 1 Gbyte SD Card on T3
File Create: 318%
File Delete: 170%
File Write: 204%
File Read: 760%
File Seek: 1180%
DB Export: 196%
DB Import: 1031%
Record Access: 822%
Resource Access: 853%

VFSMark: 614

VFSMark Results for Extreme III on T5
File Create: 315%
File Delete: 166%
File Write: 219%
File Read: 515% 32.2% lower
File Seek: 983% 16.7% lower
DB Export: 212%
DB Import: 345% 66.5% lower
Record Access: 724% 11.9% lower
Resource Access: 738% 13.5% lower

VFSMark: 468 23.8% lower overall

[Zano2004]

StoneRyno;
Yes I know. Like I said, something seems goofy. I just finished deleting everything on my Extreme III 1gig card and re-running the VFSMark and got a VFSMark of 441. Go figure? I note from the web site where I downloaded VFSMark. The software was written in 2001. I don't think these big fast cards were around or even dreamt of back then. So, I wonder. I also wonder if the T5 SD CARD circuit can take full advantage of a fast card. Put the Extreme card in a USB reader and it flys! The card came in a SanDisk box from a prime SanDisk retailer, so I don't think I got a knock-off. When I registered it with SanDisk, the serial number was apparently valid. In any case I got the 1 Gig card I've been wanting. For $115 I'm not complaining! :D

[StoneRyno]

Well we do have the source code. Perhaps a group of programmers could get together and take a look at it and update it as needed. Maybe its just an optimization or compatability that needs to be done. Perhaps some of the newer hardware and like you say cards are effecting the bench.

[Zano2004]

Well we do have the source code. Perhaps a group of programmers could get together and take a look at it and update it as needed. Maybe its just an optimization or compatability that needs to be done. Perhaps some of the newer hardware and like you say cards are effecting the bench.
I'm afraid that I wouldn't be much help as I'm not a programmer. I'm just a Palm junkie who sits in front of a PC all day and most of the night. But, I could test revised software.

[tanker_bob]

I've scrutinized the source code a while back. All it does is perform a bunch of small and large block writes, reads, and deletes. There's nothing cosmic there or anything that would be device-dependent. It should provide good relative numbers across platforms. The T5 uses a different memory scheme than the T3 to accomodate the flash drive, and that might slow down its card access a bit.

[StoneRyno]

The T5 uses a different memory scheme than the T3 to accomodate the flash drive, and that might slow down its card access a bit.

I wonder why the internal memory benches so well vs the SD cards.

I've scrutinized the source code a while back. All it does is perform a bunch of small and large block writes, reads, and deletes.

I assume the VFS system hasn't changed any in the newer devices offering different commands or whatnot. I don't really know much about the internal workings yet.

[tanker_bob]

I wonder why the internal memory benches so well vs the SD cards.
Probably faster flash chips, shorter electrical path length, less OS overhead. I don't know the inner workings of the internal flash drive code.

I assume the VFS system hasn't changed any in the newer devices offering different commands or whatnot. I don't really know much about the internal workings yet.
Overall VFS hasn't, but I believe that the T5 and Treo 650 internal drives are handled a bit differently in the OS. Otherwise, why would all the backup programs have failed initially (most still) on the new devices? You might try Googling around as I know there are write-ups on the web.

[HBL]

StoneRyno;
In any case I got the 1 Gig card I've been wanting. For $115 I'm not complaining! :D

Good discussion everyone. I'm learning a lot. I'm looking forward to a time when we'll be able to purchase 2 and 4 GB SD cards at reasonable prices. :)

This brings up a question. As currently configured can our Palms address that much memory :confused:

[HBL]

As an addendum I just wanted to let everyone know that the Recovery Software that comes with the Sandisk Extreme III SD card is great. It saved my butt when I corrupted the data on my card by pulling it out of the computer before it was finiished writing to the disk (doh!)

Competetive pricing and comparable speeds with the Panasonic cards with the recovery software makes the Sandisk the way to go in Premium media :)

[rlc7254]

I've had good luck with the Sandisk cards. I have a 512 Ultra II that I use in my T5, no problems. I have also used a 1gb Lexar, not much of a speed difference between them, at least in the T5 or Treo 600.

:D

POST #1000 (finally)!!!

[Zano2004]

The Sandisk Extreme III 1gig card also comes with a lifetime guarantee, not that I've had to use it yet. It's also claimed to be more rugged than other SD cards and twice as fast as the Sandisk Ultra II (133X , 20 MB/sec) although some benchmark software doesn't indicate that to be the case on a T5. I found mine at:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

[Zano2004]

POST #1000 (finally)!!!
Congratulations! and thanks!!

[Maisi]

I just got a new SanDisk 512mb normal (blue) SD card.

I it is quite faster on my PDA than my old SanDisk 256mb.

Here is the result on my T5:

.... argh... damn...!!! my T5 just crashed and I have to hard reset. This T5 really is a pain in the ***.

Anyways.. the result from my last test was about 966 using that VFS program.

Damn you Palm!

[tanker_bob]

The Sandisk Extreme III 1gig card also comes with a lifetime guarantee, not that I've had to use it yet. It's also claimed to be more rugged than other SD cards and twice as fast as the Sandisk Ultra II (133X , 20 MB/sec) although some benchmark software doesn't indicate that to be the case on a T5. I found mine at:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
Thanks for the info. I just ordered one. I downloaded the 2005 CIA Fact book in iSilo this AM and it came in at about 30MB! Definitely need a bigger card. :)

[Zano2004]

Thanks for the info. I just ordered one. I downloaded the 2005 CIA Fact book in iSilo this AM and it came in at about 30MB! Definitely need a bigger card. :)
They do come in handy! Mine is half full of music. Plus 100MB or so of AutoCAD files in transit between home and work and a backup of my T5 internal memory and Internal SD Card. I have a bunch of zip disks looking for a good home..... :D

[oz-nom]

I might have missed this in the thread above (I did look, honest!) but what is the speed difference between the "regular" SanDisk 1gb, the Ultra and the Extreme?

I presume that any speed difference is important when using a high speed camera (for example) or card reader, but what about day to day use in a handheld? Does it make that much difference when used in, say, a T5? I'm talking about "difference to the user" as opposed to % difference in a test.

Thanks,
Tim

EDIT: I have found some reference to slow write speeds affecting user experience (by TankerBob??). But I'm still unclear on how much difference makes a difference, if you know what I mean. And haven't seen a comparison on any of the linked sites between the 3 SanDisk cards.

[Zano2004]

The difference between the regular Sandisk card and the Ultra is very noticable (twice as fast). The Extreme seems as fast as the Ultra, but not twice as fast as the Sandisk claimed speeds would indicate. That is while installed in a T5. Put the Extreme in a USB2 reader and it seems a lot faster than the Ultra. If you're looking for a 1 gig card, the Extreme is available, but the Ultra I haven't seen available anywhere. I wanted a 1 gig card, but didn't want to invest in the regular Sandisk card, So I opted for the Extreme. I have an Ultra 512 MB and regular 512 MB Sandisk cards as well. The regular is collecting dust inside my T3 while I use the Ultra and Extreme cards with my T5. The benchmark software I used a while back indicated that the Ultra was faster than the Extreme maybe twice as fast, but that doesn't seem to be true. Hope this helps because I'm not going to run the benchmarks again. They were posted in a thread many weeks ago.

[oz-nom]

Thanks Zano. I was starting to get bamboozled by numbers and losing track of what it all actually meant. I'm looking to buy a 1gb card soon and, in Australia, SanDisk seems to be the best performance/price/relaibility. I just couldn't find any clear indication of benefit between the different versions. Much clearer now.

BTW, I haven't found a 1gb SanDisk Extreme over here yet, only "regular" and Ultra II. Looks like I'll go for the Ultra.

Cheers,
Tim

[Zano2004]

Thanks Zano. I was starting to get bamboozled by numbers and losing track of what it all actually meant. I'm looking to buy a 1gb card soon and, in Australia, SanDisk seems to be the best performance/price/relaibility. I just couldn't find any clear indication of benefit between the different versions. Much clearer now.

BTW, I haven't found a 1gb SanDisk Extreme over here yet, only "regular" and Ultra II. Looks like I'll go for the Ultra.

Cheers,
Tim
Glad to help. Sandisk does make good stuff. I'm sure a 1 gig Ultra will do it for you. The only possible difference MIGHT be that the Extreme does come with a lifetime guarantee, which might come in handy. I did have a Sandisk 256 MB SD Card die on my a while back, but I think it was actually trashed by an old card reader. I recommend the new Sandisk multicard reader (the tower looking thing). With Windows 2000 Pro and XP Pro, it becomes 4 disk drives. In a USB2 port, the thing really cooks! If you need to transfer a lot of stuff, plug the SD card into it instead of using the T5's drive mode. It's a LOT faster!

How's the weather down under? We're having a warmish winter here. I wish it would get cold and stay that way for at least 2 weeks at a time. Global warming is a fact.

[oz-nom]

Glad to help. Sandisk does make good stuff. I'm sure a 1 gig Ultra will do it for you. The only possible difference MIGHT be that the Extreme does come with a lifetime guarantee, which might come in handy. I did have a Sandisk 256 MB SD Card die on my a while back, but I think it was actually trashed by an old card reader. I recommend the new Sandisk multicard reader (the tower looking thing). With Windows 2000 Pro and XP Pro, it becomes 4 disk drives. In a USB2 port, the thing really cooks! If you need to transfer a lot of stuff, plug the SD card into it instead of using the T5's drive mode. It's a LOT faster!

How's the weather down under? We're having a warmish winter here. I wish it would get cold and stay that way for at least 2 weeks at a time. Global warming is a fact.
-
Thanks again Zano. I'll report back when I purchase.
Weather here is strange. One of the coolest and wettest summers on record. And vicious storms. We have had three "once in a hundred years" storms in the last 3 years. And yet Australia and the US won't sign the Kyoto protocol... :confused:

[Zano2004]

-
Thanks again Zano. I'll report back when I purchase.
Weather here is strange. One of the coolest and wettest summers on record. And vicious storms. We have had three "once in a hundred years" storms in the last 3 years. And yet Australia and the US won't sign the Kyoto protocol... :confused:
I thought we were the only ones who didn't sign Ktoto, Bush actually. We Yanks ain't all nuts! Just 51% of us......

[tanker_bob]

-
Weather here is strange. One of the coolest and wettest summers on record. And vicious storms. We have had three "once in a hundred years" storms in the last 3 years. And yet Australia and the US won't sign the Kyoto protocol... :confused:
Maybe because normal climate fluxuations accounted for such events thousands of years before the socialists invented "global warming" from their imaginations. Ancient civilizations invented pagan gods to explain natural phenomenon. Sophisticated modern socialists behave similarly by inventing unsupportable fantasies like "global warming". Both put their faith in and perpetuated myths. But then this discussion should go in the OT area and we should stick to PDA discussions here.

[Zano2004]

Maybe because normal climate fluxuations accounted for such events thousands of years before the socialists invented "global warming" from their imaginations. Ancient civilizations invented pagan gods to explain natural phenomenon. Sophisticated modern socialists behave similarly by inventing unsupportable fantasies like "global warming". Both put their faith in and perpetuated myths. But then this discussion should go in the OT area and we should stick to PDA discussions here.
You are of course correct, but let this be my last remark on the subject: I've lived in Tidewater Virginia (Southeastern Virginia) since 1957. In 1958 the James River froze across it's 4 mile width to a depth sufficient enough to drive automobles across the ice. That was cold. Since then the winters have gotten progressively warmer and there have not been any further such freezes. This is no "unsupprtable fantasy".

[tanker_bob]

Natural climate cycles occur over hundreds or thousands of years, not one person's lifetime. History doesn't begin the day we're born. My last comment.

[zackepceo]

You are of course correct, but let this be my last remark on the subject: I've lived in Tidewater Virginia (Southeastern Virginia) since 1957. In 1958 the James River froze across it's 4 mile width to a depth sufficient enough to drive automobles across the ice. That was cold. Since then the winters have gotten progressively warmer and there have not been any further such freezes. This is no "unsupprtable fantasy".
I live in the same area, and that was, I believe, a rare occurance.

[Zano2004]

I live in the same area, and that was, I believe, a rare occurance.
Tanker Bob says we can't speak of such things, but my only point is that winters have gotten progressively warmer since then.

[zackepceo]

What I've found about SD card speed is that it varies wildly on what you're doing, what kind of media you use, what app you're using, and the price of tea in china. By using MS at least I know my speed will be consistant: too slow.

[Zano2004]

What I've found about SD card speed is that it varies wildly on what you're doing, what kind of media you use, what app you're using, and the price of tea in china. By using MS at least I know my speed will be consistant: too slow.
That's because you're from "fractured reality" and you're not the "Master of Reality". Me: I'm just a junkie....... in the "Historic Triangle" :D

[tanker_bob]

My Sandisk Extreme III 1GB card showed up today. I find its speed very impressive--roughly equivalent to my Panasonic card but much less expensive. Speed test results on my T3:

968.3 MB of 968.3 MB free:

File Create: 357%
File Delete: 191%
File Write: 206%
File Read: 748%
File Seek: 1180%
DB Export: 184%
DB Import: 829%
Record Access: 683%
Resource Access: 724%

VFSMark: 566
----------------------------------

Retested with 392.8 MB of 968.3 free:

File Create: 310%
File Delete: 167%
File Write: 208%
File Read: 760%
File Seek: 1180%
DB Export: 189%
DB Import: 820%
Record Access: 670%
Resource Access: 711%

VFSMark: 557

CardSpeed version 1.2:
Finished in 1.94 seconds
Wrt32bit: 438 bytes/sec
Wrt8KB: 224054 bytes/sec
Read8KB: 2621440 bytes/sec

Very snappy response in actual use, faster than the VFSMark scores would indicate. As you can see from my last test series, I didn't waste any time eating into the extra available space above my old 512MB card. :)

[Zano2004]

It still amazes me that there are at least 8 billion transistors within a postage stamp sized 1 gig SD Card...... and there are 2 and 4 gig cards on the way... I can remember buying a 64 Kbyte memory card for my Apple II+ that cost $400 25 years ago. Back then it was a common problem of the chips on the card needed to be reseated once a month or so. My how times have changed!
p.s. that's a cost ratio of 1 to 500,000 then to now..... and a LOT faster!
p.p.s. Never do lower math without at least a whole cup of coffee.... make that ratio 1 to 62,500 :o :D

[tanker_bob]

Coffee-less public math is by nature a hazardous undertaking! :)

It wasn't too long ago that 400 MHz CPU with 64 MB of RAM described a top-of-the-line desktop computer, and a 1 GB hard drive cost a king's ransom. I agree, it's astounding what power fits in our pocket today!

[Zano2004]

Coffee-less public math is by nature a hazardous undertaking! :)

It wasn't too long ago that 400 MHz CPU with 64 MB of RAM described a top-of-the-line desktop computer, and a 1 GB hard drive cost a king's ransom. I agree, it's astounding what power fits in our pocket today!

That Apple II+ had a 1 (yes one) Mhz 6502 processor and I'm sitting in front of a 3 GIGhz processor machine right now. Now that I've had a couple of cups of coffee, let's see that's a factor of 3,000 times faster......

[tanker_bob]

I've noticed something odd about the Sandisk Extreme III. Every once in a while, the first time I run VFSMark I get a File Write score of about 75% and the time the test takes agrees with that score. That happened the very first time that I ran it when it was brand new and happened again this morning. None of the other scores change significantly. After that first time, it comes in over 200 and one can tell the test went much faster. Has anybody else seen this or know why this happens?

[doctordun]

Has anyone had any experience with the Ridata Ritek 1GB 66X Secure Digital Card? I found it for $77 and was wondering if it was worth it, before plunking my money down. What does the 66x mean for me?

[StoneRyno]

I never heard of the card but the 66x might be some sort of attempt at marketing its speed like the kingmax one states 60x. You can see it here it is also about the same price.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-155-266&depa=0

I have a PQI 1GB card. I can't seem to find the specs on it for speeds. But I benchmarked it on both my T E and T5. i think I posted the results on the forum somewhere.

[Zano2004]

I've noticed something odd about the Sandisk Extreme III. Every once in a while, the first time I run VFSMark I get a File Write score of about 75% and the time the test takes agrees with that score. That happened the very first time that I ran it when it was brand new and happened again this morning. None of the other scores change significantly. After that first time, it comes in over 200 and one can tell the test went much faster. Has anybody else seen this or know why this happens?
I can't say that I've noticed this, but I didn't run the VFSMark program more than one session. After I got the 1gig Extreme card, I ran VFSMark on the Extreme and a Ultra II 512 Mbyte card to see how they compared. I posted those results on 1SCR forum. At that time the Extreme gave slower results than the Ultra, which didn't make sense. I concluded that since VFSMark was a few years old it probably wasn't written with the size ans speed the Extreme card has in mind. VFSMark's speeds do not comport with Sandisk's claimed speeds for the Extreme III. When used with a USB2 card reader, the Extreme is just as fast as the Ultra, perhaps faster. My way of testing the Ultra vs. the Extreme satisified me. So I removed the VFSMark program.

A couple of response I got from my 1src posting of the speeds back then suggested that someone ought to update VFSMark. That is beyond me....

Yes, I was wide awake back then..... :D

[StoneRyno]

I'm not sure if there is any updating that can be done. From what I am told is that VFSmark just runs basic read and write speeds so as long as VFS still uses those methods for reading and writing there isn't anything that the person that told me this could see needed to be added. I suppose if its opensource someone that is familiar with how it functions could take a look at the code and see if there is anything that can be done. I'm assuming also that there is max performance speeds with VFS (or the connector [like with pcs IDE connectors have max speeds]). Perhaps these newer cards are cable of speeds beyond the speeds the device(s) are capable of doing.

Generally though benchmarks can have wild results and things can appear to be slower or faster depending on the unique situation of each test. If you want to really get a good test result, run VFSmark a dozen time or more and average the results. There was one time I benchmarked my hard drives and something caused the results to be 10 times slower than they really normally perform. When I ran the tests another 5 times or so the results were right around expected values.

[Zano2004]

It doesn't appear that the T5's drive mode is USB2 speed, so it seems likely that the "connection speed" of the SD Card port on the T5 would not be all that fast. The Sandisk Extreme III is designed for high speed photography. I have no idea how that would compare to USB2. But, as I've observed before, I'm happy with the Extreme III card.

[StoneRyno]

It doesn't appear that the T5's drive mode is USB2 speed, so it seems likely that the "connection speed" of the SD Card port on the T5 would not be all that fast. The Sandisk Extreme III is designed for high speed photography. I have no idea how that would compare to USB2. But, as I've observed before, I'm happy with the Extreme III card.

What about if you use the desktop palmOne File Transfer program? It might just be me but it appears to copy data faster with it vs going into the palm and turning on drive mode.

[Zano2004]

What about if you use the desktop palmOne File Transfer program? It might just be me but it appears to copy data faster with it vs going into the palm and turning on drive mode.
I've not used File Transfer but once or twice and I didn't notice any difference from Drive Mode. When I loaded my music files (485 MBytes) using a USB2 card reader, the difference was very noticable. I don't time any of it with a stopwatch.

[Zano2004]

BAck when I ran VFSMark, I did run it many times (perhaps 5 times) on both the Ultra II and the Extreme III. Both cards showed some differences each time it was run. I guess I'm not that dedicated. I do remember there being a big difference in one case with thew Extreme card, but didn't think that much of it when I ran it again and got the faster speed I had gotten before. I don't remember the exact readings now.

[StoneRyno]

I think maybe its the progress indicator that is making me think its running faster. I like it vs the generic most of the time way off time left indication of windows copy.

[tanker_bob]

Yeah, I've found the progress indicators are app-dependent. ZLauncher hardly moves theirs when copying to a card, but it copies in the same time as others that update the progress more often. I use a stopwatch to make comparisons. On a stopwatch, the 1 GB Extreme III and a 512 MB Panasonic are indistinguishable.

[Zano2004]

After an ample supply of coffee, I did some timed reads and write from and to my Ultra II and Extreme III cards this morning. First in a USB2 card reader and then using the T5's Drive mode. For the USB2 I got 5.6 MBytes/second write for the Ultra II and 6.0 MBytes/second write for the Extreme III. USB2 read speeds were 12.38 Mbyte per second for the Ultra II and 7.06 MBytes per second for the Extreme III. Then I tried the Drive mode where the read speeds were more than 4 times those of USB2. At that point I said the heck with this. The USB2 card reader and T5 USB cable were both plugged into USB2 ports on my 1.8 Ghrtz PC.

[HBL]

I've noticed something odd about the Sandisk Extreme III. Every once in a while, the first time I run VFSMark I get a File Write score of about 75% and the time the test takes agrees with that score. That happened the very first time that I ran it when it was brand new and happened again this morning. None of the other scores change significantly. After that first time, it comes in over 200 and one can tell the test went much faster. Has anybody else seen this or know why this happens?

^^

Tanker, I noticed the same low write score the first time I tested my Extreme III with the VFS Mark software. I didn't mention it because 5 other tests netted write scores in the 212% range + or - 10%. I simply threw out the first score as an anomally.

[tanker_bob]

^^

Tanker, I noticed the same low write score the first time I tested my Extreme III with the VFS Mark software. I didn't mention it because 5 other tests netted write scores in the 212% range + or - 10%. I simply threw out the first score as an anomally.
Thanks for your observation. Sounds like a VFSMark-centric anomaly. I'll take a look at the code and see how VFSMark opens the card. In normal operation, the Extreme III flies. I'm "Extremely" happy with it. :)

[Zano2004]

Thanks for your observation. Sounds like a VFSMark-centric anomaly. I'll take a look at the code and see how VFSMark opens the card. In normal operation, the Extreme III flies. I'm "Extremely" happy with it. :)
Indeed, it is an extremely nice. I moved the software from the Palm Backup card over to my Extreme III. That software is the ONLY backup software I've found to backup and restore properly. I backup T5 (about 20Mbytes) to the Extreme card and it flies! I also backup my T5's Internal drive to the Extreme and that flies as well. Extreme III makes for a very nice addition.

[StoneRyno]

Indeed, it is an extremely nice. I moved the software from the Palm Backup card over to my Extreme III. That software is the ONLY backup software I've found to backup and restore properly. I backup T5 (about 20Mbytes) to the Extreme card and it flies! I also backup my T5's Internal drive to the Extreme and that flies as well. Extreme III makes for a very nice addition.

I hear this is the only backup software that works but I haven't seen it anywhere. Is it not downloadable anywhere for trial use?

[HBL]

Thanks for your observation. Sounds like a VFSMark-centric anomaly. I'll take a look at the code and see how VFSMark opens the card. In normal operation, the Extreme III flies. I'm "Extremely" happy with it. :)

Yep, I'm happy too. I'm just waiting for Sandisk to announce 2 and 4 Gb Extreme III cards. It should take about a year after that for the prices to come down to a reasonable level ;)

[tanker_bob]

Yep, I'm happy too. I'm just waiting for Sandisk to announce 2 and 4 Gb Extreme III cards. It should take about a year after that for the prices to come down to a reasonable level ;)
Those would be Extremely sweet. :D

[Zano2004]

I hear this is the only backup software that works but I haven't seen it anywhere. Is it not downloadable anywhere for trial use?
No. The software comes on PalmOne's Backup Card. There is a update on Palm's tech page for the T5, which overwrites what's on the card. That's what I did and then tried transferring it to the Extreme. So far it appears to work.

[StoneRyno]

No. The software comes on PalmOne's Backup Card. There is a update on Palm's tech page for the T5, which overwrites what's on the card. That's what I did and then tried transferring it to the Extreme. So far it appears to work.

Bummer, I don't really want to buy any backup programs until I figure out which one I like for use on my T5.

In reference to the storage capacity of the cards. i think its interesting how much data can be stored in such a little object. I wonder how many GB they can put on them before having to change the design. Like with hard drives over 137GB or there abouts they had to go to 48bit LBA. I think it would be sweet to store 10s of GB or more on an SD card.

[Zano2004]

Bummer, I don't really want to buy any backup programs until I figure out which one I like for use on my T5.

In reference to the storage capacity of the cards. i think its interesting how much data can be stored in such a little object. I wonder how many GB they can put on them before having to change the design. Like with hard drives over 137GB or there abouts they had to go to 48bit LBA. I think it would be sweet to store 10s of GB or more on an SD card.
They appear to have 4 Gbyte cards on the way. The cards seem to use some sort of serial transfer, so I wouldn't think it would be a problem to keep going. I saw an iPod up close and personal for the first time the other day. It was a 60 Gigabyte model....... 60 is enough for entire personal music collections with a lot of room to spare, certainly more than I can imagine using. I have a couple of 120 GigByte hard drives with a lot of unused space. I'm looking foward to digital video cameras that use SD Cards instead of tape of dvd.