Cheapest PDA for intensive Video playblack

[Esquilaxer]

I want to play videos, like entire 1 to 2 hour videos. Can anyone suggest me what I should get.

Mind you, my budget is around 300 Canadian dollars. As I see it now, it's between the Zire72 or the Tungsten E.

Zire72
Pros: Fast CPU

Cons:
Peeling blue paint (ugly)
dont take pictures
dont care for bluetooth

Tungsten E
Nice Pro. look
same stuff to other new palms

Cons
126 CPU = horrible for movies = needs overclock = wasted batt. life

Please help me choose

[Cyker]

A cheap PPC might be better, although I suspect you'd be hard pressed to get 2 hrs continuous playback on one battery charge.

The TH55 could do it, but they ain't cheap now that they are becoming rare.

If you want to play standard moview formats without conversion, the only Palm PDAs that can handle it are the high-end Palms, e.g. T|C, T|3 and T|5, whereas almost all PPC's could probably do it.

If you don't mind video conversion/must use PalmOS, the TH55 or NX80 are the best options IMHO if you can find a cheap one, else... mmm... maybe the Zire 72 or a cheap T|3 (Will need charging half-way 'tho I reckon). I'd avoid the T|E - It's definitely more work and less play.

[Esquilaxer]

Err, I don't trust those companies, Sony and iPaq.

I don't like the idea resorting to a PPC (all my fav. software is on PalmOS). Is it worth to get a PPC? in terms of its software. I'm looking at FREE software, and lots of it. www.freewarepalm.com has a lot of palm only, bujt i havent see free ppc docs.

PPC are out of my concern as of now.

And you really serious? The t|e is really that BAD? that bad? If i were to watch an xvid video on a te with mmplayer, would it skip. Would it be disturbing, such as loisin sync between video and audio?

And does anyone know if the Zire72 is good for videoplay back. Im quite sure it is, it has a special media cpu with 300mhz!

[mike p]

dell axim x30

[jjesusfreak01]

A TH-55 could definitely do it, but a used one has probably never evne been sold for your budget. The TH-55 is unique among Palm devices, as it has a DSP (Digital Signal Processor), to decode movies and audio, and so it uses drastically less battery doing the same work as a higher powered pda. The only comparable PDA is the Dell Axim X50v, which has a full fledged graphics chip, and with the included WMP 10, can play many types of video very fast, at high framerates, however, the TH-55 can play 15fps 320x480 video perfectly, and with headphones, its completely engrossing.

The Zire-72 does not seem to have a media processor, from what I can see. It does have a 300+mhz processor, which is good for media, but since it is limited by the Real media player, I doubt its media capabilities are that great.

[RMCF]

Older Pocket PC (with SA 206mhz processors). Fast and cheap if to be found.

[Esquilaxer]

dell axim x30

This one uses the same CPU as the Zire 72.

Btw, how does it feel watching movies like "the Matrix" on a pda. Is it decent?
I mean a fight scene at 15fps, imo, must like horrible, utterly horrible. Maybe not, I havent seen such display on a pda in my life.

I still dont understand why ppl here dont think Zire72 is a good option. Well, I still want opinions. Like, does the Palm zire 72 sitll have poor paint, that wears off?

[jjesusfreak01]

Dont get me wrong, the zire looks like it could handle most media players. Its just that once you have experienced widescreen video on a clie, there is no turning back. And by the way, 15fps is not that bad. Some movies are done in only 24fps. Thats only 9 fps more (to save you the math).

[RMCF]

24fps = PAL
30fps = NTSC

[jjesusfreak01]

I believe you are correct, but I think the movie producers have some control over the framerate, as they do with the aspect ratio.

[RMCF]

Really? I am from the UK, and have never seen a movie here that doesn't have 24fps.
Maybe in the US there are some 24 fps movies, don't really know.

[Cyker]

IMHO, if you *don't* want to do conversion, the TH55 is the worst because it can't handle any other movie-playback formats - It's just too darn slow. The T|E wouldn't cut it - You'd want at least the Zire 72 to be able to use something like mmplayer/Kinoma3 at a decent speed, preferably something even faster like a T|3 or T|5.

If you *do* go down the conversion route, then most of the recent Clies have some sort of hardware video decoder which makes them play longer and smoother. I bet the TH55 is the only one that you could watch a 2 hour movie on without a recharge 'tho.
Another cool thing about the video DSP is that it does a smoothed stretch like modern video cards so you can watch the film, in full 480x320@15fps - This is something you can't (AFAIK) do with mmplayer as even the T|3 and T|5 aren't powerful enough to do it brute force with their main CPUs.

Video support on PPC is much better, but as you have PalmOS stuff already this is not a fantastic route to go down (The way you wrote your post, I thought you were new to PDAs and were starting from nothing!)

I'm still thinking the Zire is a better route for you. And yes I am serious about the T|E - For normal PDA activity the T|E is adequate, but for multimedia stuff, forget it - It has all the bad points of a TH55 with none of the good points.
If you can't get a TH55 and don't want a T|3 or a PPC, then the Zire 72 is probably the best one to go for...

But obviously YMMV - If you can, try and demo some of them at a store or something...

[Esquilaxer]

Excellent! Zire 72 it is. Any outlook on price drops :P?

Well, as I am poor, after buying a zire 72, i wont have enough for a keyboard. Are there any 3rd party CHEAP palm zire 72 compatible keyboards on there? 100 bucks Canadian is the cheapest i've seen. Im not sure what's compatible with a zire72 since it doesnt have this "universal connector" every1 talks about.

p.s: Id still like comments from user experiences who own n use the Zire 72 or the Tungsten E in the field of media and games.

[rcxAsh]

Hope it works out for you. Remember that you will need to buy an SD card for your Zire. Since you want a lot of video, you will want a large card.

SD cards are often cheaper than Memory Sticks; but they will still run you some money. I haven't checked out prices at FutureShop, BestBuy or Staples lately, but you may want to check out TigerDirect.ca (You're in Canada I assume?) They have 256MB SD cards for under $50 Canadian. There is even a 512MB SD card for under $60.

If you really want to watch hours and hours of video, you will really want a few really big SD cards. Or you will end up being forced to reencode the video down to lower resolutions, bitrates and framerates.

Here's the memory card page:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_flash.asp

So before you go out and buy a keyboard for yourself, you may want to make sure that you have a card for your videos...

edit:
Oh and regarding the keyboard.. if you can afford it, I'd recommend that you get one of those universal IR keyboards. That will remove the issues of universal connectors and what not in the past, present and future.

[Esquilaxer]

So you recommend a IR keyboard? Those are the most expensive, I believe.

Yes, I do need an SD card, unfortunately. Oh well, 25 bucks CND for 128 mb :D.

But wait a minute. "If you really want to watch hours and hours of video, you will really want a few really big SD cards. Or you will end up being forced to reencode the video down to lower resolutions, bitrates and framerates. "

I dont understand. Let's say I have 1 gig SD card. This doesnt mean I can have high res (320x240?) Xvid, hit bitrate, 24FPS movies on my PDA. My PDA, even better PDAs like the T|5, can't play such video formats. Correct me if I am wrong, it would be great if I am wrong.

[Esquilaxer]

BT-301U Bluetooth USB Adapter (version 1.1) $29.99 (WOW cheap)

This is ver. 1.1, will it work with the new bluetooth on the zire 72, which is 2.0 i think?

[jjesusfreak01]

320x240 might be low enough to work. You have to remember that it takes an insane amount of processing power to do 480x320 in landscape on a TH-55. Not only is it twice the res of a 320x240, but since it is in landscape the pda takes an extra speed hit. It can actually run at a slightly higher fps in portrait mode, however, you cant see the full video unless it is encoded at 320x240.

[mike p]

my dell has great framerate


i have a game that runs at 50fps just fine

[jjesusfreak01]

my dell has great framerate


i have a game that runs at 50fps just fine
Im sure it does, but were not talking about overcompensating windows mobile pdas, were talking about palm devices.

[rcxAsh]

So you recommend a IR keyboard? Those are the most expensive, I believe.

Yes, I do need an SD card, unfortunately. Oh well, 25 bucks CND for 128 mb :D.

But wait a minute. "If you really want to watch hours and hours of video, you will really want a few really big SD cards. Or you will end up being forced to reencode the video down to lower resolutions, bitrates and framerates. "

I dont understand. Let's say I have 1 gig SD card. This doesnt mean I can have high res (320x240?) Xvid, hit bitrate, 24FPS movies on my PDA. My PDA, even better PDAs like the T|5, can't play such video formats. Correct me if I am wrong, it would be great if I am wrong.

What I meant regarding the size of your SD card is that you won't be able to fit as many higher quality videos on a smaller card.

As an example... on my Clie, I have a 23 minute video at 320x240 at 216kbps. It is nearly 50MB. This is from Sony's Image Converter's normal quality setting.

By customizing the settings (turning down audio quality), I've been able to get this down to maybe about 30-10 MB for similar videos. However, again, I could only really fit two, maybe three such videos on one 128MB memory stick. (Plus, the audio started sounding really bad at this point)

You would only be able to fit two of these on one 128MB memory card.

You can have whatever you want on your card. You can have a hires Xvid, high bitrate, 24FPS movie on your 128MB card if you wanted. But it wouldn't be a full length 2 hour movie.

I fit Ocean's 11 onto a 128MB memory stick once. But it was low resolution 160xsomething else with mono audio and lower bitrate. It fit and was watchable, but it wasn't high quality.

It's something to think about before you spend your money on other accessories (based on the fact that your main selling point is video play back).

I'm not sure how the video conversion will go for you. But I doubt that it will be off by more than 10MB.

And in regards to the IR keyboard, the main reason why I recommened one was because most likely, you will never have to buy a new keyboard again when you upgrade to newer PDAs, possibly including PocketPCs.

[Tam Hanna]

Go for the Zire 72s
It doesnt have the stupid paint....

[shender]

Back to the initial question, given enough money and time, you can do a lot for video playback. But for $300 Cdn, you will be challenged.

I use a Sony Clie UX50 primarily for video playback, due to the amount of time I spend travelling. It works extreamly well. But even used, will set you back a few more dollars than you have in mind. Its all about the trade offs you want to make.

[rcxAsh]

Back to the initial question, given enough money and time, you can do a lot for video playback. But for $300 Cdn, you will be challenged.

I use a Sony Clie UX50 primarily for video playback, due to the amount of time I spend travelling. It works extreamly well. But even used, will set you back a few more dollars than you have in mind. Its all about the trade offs you want to make.
But how does the UX50 fair for battery life? You have an EB40 I gather from your signature. I have a UX40 but have only had it for a week and have not yet tested it with video playback without it in the charging cradle. (I don't have an EB40)

Wouldn't the TH55 be better in this case, again? But then we were already here lol.

And again, one thing to keep in mind when thinking about Something Else versus Sony Clie is your removable media. SD cards are usually cheaper than their equivelant memory sticks. At least from what I usually see..

Oh, one thing nice about having a UX for video playback is that you don't have to hold it up when watching. Because of the clamshell design, you can easily just set it on a table or bed and watch. :) But this probably shouldn't be your deciding factor... Or should it..? Lol :p :rolleyes:

[mike p]

palm is dead, face it, get a pocket pc and live life like u should

[Esquilaxer]

Wow, that's helpful. Why is Palm dead?

[Cyker]

He's just trolling ;)

As for memory cards, you'll deffo need one - Get one as big as you can afford.

The keyboard is a bit tricky - Frankly, unless you are gonne be entering a LOT of stuff, I'd not bother with it - I recently bought a Stowaway BlueTooth and am beta testing the PalmOS driver for it, but I actually have a real use for it since I have started using my PDA to type out reports instead of writing them out by hand - Doing that much writing by Graffiti was shredding my screen!

For most people 'tho, I think that a keyboard would not really be worth it - My TH55 cost me about £250. My 1GB MS also cost me about £80. Add my Stowaway to that and there's another £80 - It adds up to a lot of money!

See how you do without the Keyboard at first anyway - You can always buy it later if you *really* feel you need one, and it'll be cheaper too! (BTW, if you ever do, I can recommend the Stowaway BT - It's really friggin' cool ;))

[rcxAsh]

Wow, that's helpful. Why is Palm dead?
He's probably saying this for reasons such as:
- Sony's leaving of the non-Japanese market
- Disappointment.. Anticipation for OS6, which still hasn't materialized on a device we know of
- Etc.
- PocketPCs are starting to get VGA screens (640x480). PalmOS still only has HVGA (320x480).
- People just don't seem to have much faith in the PalmOS platform anymore.
- PalmOS 6 again, there was an article on Brighthand saying about how PalmSource might adopt a Linux operating system. Thus.. what happened to OS6 again?

But I personally am scared to have my handheld device be so closely related to Windows. If I don't enjoy using it too much on my computer... I wonder about on a PDA...? But this is more of a personal bias than anything else. I'm pretty sure that Windows Mobile isn't _that_ bad. (Am I right?)

[mike p]

ur rite, its not so bad, it takes time to get to like it



yes, thats wat i mean by palm dead

also, p1 only cares bout treo so ibve head

[FIA WRC]

I own a TH-55 as well as a T3 and perfer the video quality on the TH over the T3. I know your on a budget, but you should think of waiting and save up to get the right pda for what you want to do. Don't settle for something close. And even though I like the TH for media I would no longer recommend telling anyone to get one who lives outside Japan. You'll get little to no support. That leaves P1 or PPC. For P1 your best choice is T3 or T/C. I think the T5 still needs some bugs worked out of it. If you do some research on PPC I think you'll like what you see. For what you want to do they'll cost you less. If you must have Palm OS and are set on the Z72 then pick up a 1GB sd card and the Power Sled.

[Karim]

I've had a TH55 since March and I would still definitely recommend a PPC at this point for what you're asking. Dell and HP seem to be the top dogs right now. HPs seem to have better screens more often. I guess my recommendation would be an HP.

Just another idea, dedicated video devices have less features per dollar, but better playback battery life than most PPCs and Palms, much better format support, and infinitely more storage space. Just something to think about.

Personally, my next handheld is going to be a Palm OS 6 device (no matter how long the wait is, rofl). I've got my trusty TH55 to comfort me through the wait. It WOULD be a desktop OS handheld device (similar to Vaio U), but I don't see those getting to the level of sophistication per mobility that I require anytime soon.

[rcxAsh]

Just another idea, dedicated video devices have less features per dollar, but better playback battery life than most PPCs and Palms, much better format support, and infinitely more storage space. Just something to think about.
I'd probably agree here. I saw some show on TechTV once, and they were reviewing portable video digital player. It was something around $300 (USD probably though). IIRC, it was pretty good. If all you're planning to do is watch video, this actually may be a more economical route.

[shender]

rcx -

If you have the UX40, then you're pretty much set. A new 1GB MS Pro (at any Sony Store in the GTA) will run you about $200 Cdn. Anywhere else, like TigerDirect will be even cheaper. Memory/Storage is not the issue anymore.

In terms of the EB40, you need one. My UX50 was pitiful without one. Now I can watch 3-4 hours of video playback no problem. The constraint is now how much video I can store and take with me, not battery life. Try ebay. They were $200 Cdn when in the stores, you can scare one up for slightly more now. Then, I think you'd have what you need to watch decent video playback.

Once that happens, you'll be onto "how do I get all the videos/movies I want". You'll then likely spend a lot of time on DVD ripping, MPEG conversion, legal issues, conversion, etc.

Good luck.

[Esquilaxer]

Err, dedicated videoplayer isnt good for me. I think it's unvaluable since u cant have the PIM or other important softwareds.

Thanks for the help guys. Keep your opinions coming. I seriously want to know how it feels like to watch movies on ur pda (2hr.movies), maybe a dedicated thread about that topic.

Like, action movies? A/V sync (is it good)? Big enough?


I'd probably agree here. I saw some show on TechTV once, and they were reviewing portable video digital player. It was something around $300 (USD probably though). IIRC, it was pretty good. If all you're planning to do is watch video, this actually may be a more economical route.

[QBa]

Equilaxer - What's the best price you have found on the Z72? Due to small town living, I'm stuck with on-line ordering. The best price I have found is $331 Canadian at HandheldCanada.com. Free shipping and if you pay with a CIBC Visa they have a $25.00 off code. Are you finding better prices than that in stores? Thats the best I have found online. They only have the blue ones, sent them an email to see if they would be getting the silver ones in, but they never did answer me. (yet?)

[Esquilaxer]

The best price seen at www.canadacomputers.com (lil store downtown) is 313 CDN. Quite good, but I'm afraid it's the old Blue Paint Zire 72. I don't care tho, I'll take my risks despite what ppl have said about them treating it with a lot care and still blue paint chipping.

[junglemike]

Thanks for the help guys. Keep your opinions coming. I seriously want to know how it feels like to watch movies on ur pda (2hr.movies), maybe a dedicated thread about that topic.

Like, action movies? A/V sync (is it good)? Big enough?
Everything depends on how you define "good" and "quality".
Zire72 with MMplayer or SmartMovie will handle video perfectly. You will be able to playback full frame rate (maybe with little overclocking) - something like 320x240@24fps@48kbit audio. But if your main purpose is watching movies - i would _really_ suggest you a 480 screen device. I upgraded from Zire71 to T3 only for this very reason - so i can watch full movies on a big screen. You may think that there is not much difference, but actually there is. Although 320x480 pad's have only 50% larger screen space than 320x320 - but the movie will be 2.25 times (225%) larger on 480x320screen!!!! (i'll live math for you ). And believe me - 2.25 times larger video - IS a huge difference. I would recommend you getting a T3 - it is excellent in video playback. I can easily play very high quality , similair to DVD-rips, like 480x272@25fps@400kbit/s video @48kbit/audio.video-xvid,audio-mp3 But the battery is a weak side of T3 . I use 9000mah custom-made battery to recharge it on the road.

[Esquilaxer]

THAT's damn right amazing on ur t3. 480x272@25fps@400kbit/!!! Holy cow! How's the battery going?

But yeesh, that res. must be awesome. How's sync? on that? And r u exaggerating a lil ?

[junglemike]

That's right, on 480 screen movies indeed look terrific. in some casesi can play regular DVD-rips (in Divx/Xvid) "as is" - w/o conversion. The main problem is huge bitrate. T3(and T5) are fastest palm by now - T3 has 400mhz cpu (easy overclockable to 533 or 600mhz if needed) and 12 megabytes of heap memory. (most palms have 1-2mb of heap. Zire71 has 5mb of heap). And, besides, T3 is very very cheap now.
How's the battery going?
The battery is very poor. You can hardly finish watchin 100-minute movie from full charge. So if you thinkig of getting a T3 - you better get Pal'ms Powertogo sled or some other portable charger. I've made for myself auxiliary battery that has 10 times amount of charge that T3's battery. So i can watch even 5-6 movies in a row , when not at home.
But yeesh, that res. must be awesome. How's sync? on that? And r u exaggerating a lil ? Not at all - you can go to mmplayer forum, i have couple of guides here and specific recommended settings for T3/T5. If you have access to T3/T5- i can send you small sample clip with very fast motion that will play perfectly with above settings (480x272@24fps@400kbit

[Esquilaxer]

I'm going to try my best to get a T5. If i get a T3, iwouldnt be able to afford a extra battery. Either Zire72 or T5 for me.

Ill check mmplayer forums. Oh, and how much space would a decent quality movie (full dvd rip) take? based on an average. Is a 128mb SD card enough? I saw a tut. on how to make it 128mb, but im womndering if the quality is good.

[daver]

Err, I don't trust those companies, Sony and iPaq.

I don't like the idea resorting to a PPC (all my fav. software is on PalmOS). Is it worth to get a PPC? in terms of its software. I'm looking at FREE software, and lots of it. www.freewarepalm.com (http://www.freewarepalm.com/) has a lot of palm only, bujt i havent see free ppc docs.

PPC are out of my concern as of now.

And you really serious? The t|e is really that BAD? that bad? If i were to watch an xvid video on a te with mmplayer, would it skip. Would it be disturbing, such as loisin sync between video and audio?

And does anyone know if the Zire72 is good for videoplay back. Im quite sure it is, it has a special media cpu with 300mhz!
Actually, you're better off trusting the HP iPAQ than any other handheld brand out there, with exceptions to the Dell Axim. Sony is a little overpriced when compared to the iPAQ. you can get a very fast CPU, 300-500 MHz, for about $350 CAD. that's just a little bit out of your range, but one upside is you can play your videos in native format because of hte windows media player mobile edition pre-installed into the device's ROM. also, SD cards are way cheaper, which you probably already know by now. battery life on PPCs are also generally better than Palms. however, don't hold me to it as i said generally better; not a definite thing, but a proven fact from 3 PPC users that i kno who all watch movies and listen to music on their devices.

as for a full DVD on a card, you'll need at least 512 MB if you want a good quality 2 hour movie. but it depends on the user, everybody has different things to say about it.

junglemike:
the T3 is about $500 CAD right now. not that you're wrong that the T3 is very cheap, but that's only in the United States, not Canada.

[junglemike]

that's just a little bit out of your range, but one upside is you can play your videos in native format because of hte windows media player mobile edition pre-installed into the device's ROM
Windows media player - is toatal , unbelievable crap(just like in Windows), it doesnt support dixv/xvid at all. But your idea is right, ppc's can handle video much better/faster , mostly due to good player that exist there, like Betaplayer or MVP (both free) whch support divx/xvid/wmv/mpeg video formats, mp1/2/3/ogg/wma/ra/flac/... audio formats, and .avi/.mpg/.mp4/.ogg/.mkv containers. There is no such player for Palm OS that does even 1/3 of these things.
battery life on PPCs are also generally better than Palms.
It really depends, there are ppc's models with terrible power management - 2-3 hours of extensive usagle from full charge.

as for a full DVD on a card, you'll need at least 512 MB if you want a good quality 2 hour movie. but it depends on the user, everybody has different things to say about it.
This is no use of speaking of dvd playback, both becuase you'll need 2-4gb card for one film and no palm on earth could decode mpeg-2 stream in real-time (with native resolution 768x576). I'll agree that you gonna need large card - 512mb - is good option. I currently have 512mb card , and i'm able to store 2 full movies together with other palm stuff.

ll check mmplayer forums. Oh, and how much space would a decent quality movie (full dvd rip) take? based on an average. Is a 128mb SD card enough? I saw a tut. on how to make it 128mb, but im womndering if the quality is good.
You can put a full movie on as small as 128mb - only if you expert in encoding and will use much tweaking, . For example - when i have little space or i have load many movies on my 512mb card - i use scripting language called avysinth and use special pre-filtering functions to encrease compressibility of movie (in other words- to compress movie to very small size and still have it with good quality).
If you try to use some ready compressing solutions like Pocketdivxencoder or powerDVD studio and compress 2 hour on 128mb card - it will look mostly like crap. (only very low motion, drama-like movie may look "ok").

[junglemike]

he T3 is about $500 CAD right now. not that you're wrong that the T3 is very cheap, but that's only in the United States, not Canada
I don't know how much canadian dollar is, but i remember i say couple of time on brighthand forum, that people were able to find and _new_ T3 for 250-270US$.

[jjesusfreak01]

This is no use of speaking of dvd playback, both becuase you'll need 2-4gb card for one film and no palm on earth could decode mpeg-2 stream in real-time (with native resolution 768x576). I'll agree that you gonna need large card - 512mb - is good option. I currently have 512mb card , and i'm able to store 2 full movies together with other palm stuff.
Could an Axim X50v do it? The media processor runs with the WMP 10 player, so id imagine its pretty powerful.

[daver]

here's what i've found out for PPCs:

my brother recently got the HP iPAQ rx3715. it's got a 400 MHz processor, and obviously WMP. he uses betaplayer, which in my opinion beats any other player i've seen, and he's been watcing LOTR on his 2 GB card. i've even watched it on his iPAQ, and i must say, the quality is amazing. he's got quite high quality settings (my guess is somewhere around 700kbps; not sure, will double check), full quality sound (44100,128, stereo), and full framerate (24fps). plus it's full screen, so somewhere around 480x320 (?)pixels. and one full run of the movie, which is 2+ hours, drains the battery down to about 50-60%. that's very good battery time.
however, this handheld isn't cheap. it goes for $400 USD. but if video is what you want, then i guess you could try this one out. i guess with an overclock application, u could punch the processor to 500 MHz, and get even more out of it.

[Mas]

ive always loved my NX80 and i think you can find some for cheap online if you search for it. It to me has everything and once IC 1.5 came out, my whole world opened up as far as watching full videos goes.

I have a 512mb MS for my mp3's and a 512mb CF for videos. I was able to convert a 1.7Gb movie into 468MB (this was high quality..at standard it was about 260mb) and it looks very nice on landscape mode. And pretty much PERFECT on 320x320 mode.

I dont know the prices tho in canadian. Maybe its even more than a Zire because its now more of a "collectors item" ?

As far as battery life, I thought about that when I first had my NR70 years ago. I bought a very simple accessory for 10$ on ebay that allows me to charge my Clie anywhere. All I need is 4 AA batteries. I just charge mine up (NmiH) at work so theyre ready to go just incase my battery level goes down.

.....like...I hate lower than 90%. :p

[madmaxmedia]

First, some factors to consider-

1. Screen resolution- Anything with a square screen is pretty poor, watching a movie that only uses half the screen is really annoying.
OTOH, I think a 320 x 240 screen is as good (or better than) a higher res screen. if you are ripping 2-hour movies under 400 MB, a 320 x 240 video will look BETTER than a 640 x 480 or 320 x 480 because it will have FAR LESS artifacts.
Also consider that a 320 x 240 screen on PPC's is actually more than 'dense' enough. It won't look pixellated at all. OTOH, if you use MMPlayer on a T3/T5 with 240 x 320 video, it will look pixellated when you scale up to full screen size.

2. Video format- The CLIE's are great multimedia devices, but you're forced to use ImageConverter. It's not bad, but can't do stuff like 2-pass encoding that will significantly increase quality. Palm can use MMPlayer for divx/xvid/etc., and BetaPlayer is a great freeware player on PPC. There are great freeware programs to rip DVD's to Divx/xVid format.

3. Memory card format- CF is cheapest, SD is next, Memory stick Pro is the most expensive.

For these reasons, for pure movie playing I would really recommend a used 200 MHz PPC. It will do great quality video cheaply (especially if you get one with CF slot), and some have good battery life. I think this is a good enough choice that it could justify keeping a cheaper Zire 21 for the Palm apps, and having a PPC for videos if both are really important to you (you'll be watching videos everyday on the train, etc.)

In second place I would say a TH55, then a UX50/40. The TH55 has a bigger screen and better battery life. A VZ90 would be supersweet and you could use a big CF card, but it's a little out of our price range. ;)

Personally, I would consider a Palm PDA last. MMPlayer is pretty good but still somewhat buggy as of a couple months ago. Screen resolutions are not ideal either IMO. MMPlayer will scale up videos to match screen size on a T3/T5, but the resulting picture is noticeably blocky.

I'm sure you could be happy with any of them, it's just a matter of being aware of all the tradeoffs and choosing the best for you.

[jjesusfreak01]

FYI, to my knowledge, most PPC devices have either 240 x 320 resolution or 640 x 480, though some have strange resolutions depending on the screen orientation and ratio.

[djboa]

First, some factors to consider-

[...]
2. Video format- The CLIE's are great multimedia devices, but you're forced to use ImageConverter. It's not bad, but can't do stuff like 2-pass encoding that will significantly increase quality. Palm can use MMPlayer for divx/xvid/etc., and BetaPlayer is a great freeware player on PPC. There are great freeware programs to rip DVD's to Divx/xVid format.
[...]


I'm doing two pass encoding with ffmpeg through 3gp_producer to play on an ux50 ... 480*320/24fps 512kbit avg xvid looks nice ...

[madmaxmedia]

I'm doing two pass encoding with ffmpeg through 3gp_producer to play on an ux50 ... 480*320/24fps 512kbit avg xvid looks nice ...

I've been behind the times...just saw all the new stuff using the VZ-90 codecs. Pretty cool!!! That pretty much makes the CLIE's the best multimedia devices I think.

I need a TH55! Actually, I think I want a PSP :)

[junglemike]

1. Screen resolution- Anything with a square screen is pretty poor, watching a movie that only uses half the screen is really annoying.
OTOH, I think a 320 x 240 screen is as good (or better than) a higher res screen. if you are ripping 2-hour movies under 400 MB, a 320 x 240 video will look BETTER than a 640 x 480 or 320 x 480 because it will have FAR LESS artifacts.
Also consider that a 320 x 240 screen on PPC's is actually more than 'dense' enough. It won't look pixellated at all. OTOH, if you use MMPlayer on a T3/T5 with 240 x 320 video, it will look pixellated when you scale up to full screen size.
What is it based on? Of course 480xXXX resolution movie looks waay better than on lower res pdas (320x240ppcs and 32x320palms). On 320x240 movie DOES look a bit pixalated, because it is about same phisical size as hirez+palm screen but 2 times larger resolution. Why would anybody With T3/T5 would want to use tiny 320x240 res video? I see no reason for that. I only encode movies for my T3 with 480X272 (or 480x256) @25fps/@200-500kbps video 48kbps audio.

[rcxAsh]

I've been behind the times...just saw all the new stuff using the VZ-90 codecs. Pretty cool!!! That pretty much makes the CLIE's the best multimedia devices I think.

I need a TH55! Actually, I think I want a PSP :)
What's more, using MP4 video allows Linux users to now easily transcode video for our Clies (3GPP Converter uses ffmpeg, which runs natively on Linux). It's very convenient for nearly any computer user now. This, for me, is an even greater plus than the 480x320 video ;)

Unless you're using something like MMPlayer, I don't think this is even possible for other video players like Kinoma or whatever ships with the Tungstens.

So that's another thing to think about I suppose. What operating system do you use? Most likely Windows. But if not, then remember that you may run into headaches trying to convert media for yourself.

[Ruune]

Hi,

I can tell you without a doubt, that my casio E125 (160mhz MIPS) can play full screen (240x340) at 24fps. Its all about your encoding. On a PDA with a nice screen you dont need a 700kbps bitrate. Using a bitrate of 200 is just fine, and looks great. You must use this encoding style in conjunction with a program called betaplayer, which is very fast. The only reason I dont use my E125 anymore is that it's freakin huge. I'll prolly sell it on ebay after my TG50 comes in :-D

Evan

[junglemike]

I can tell you without a doubt, that my casio E125 (160mhz MIPS) can play full screen (240x340) at 24fps. Its all about your encoding. On a PDA with a nice screen you dont need a 700kbps bitrate. Using a bitrate of 200 is just fine, and looks great. You must use this encoding style in conjunction with a program called betaplayer, which is very fast. The only reason I dont use my E125 anymore is that it's freakin huge. I'll prolly sell it on ebay after my TG50 comes in :-D
YOu can't compare ppc's and palms when it comes to video. PPc's are much more superior in this issue. Mostly due to great players , like Betaplayer/Mvp/...
It's hardly possible (if at all) to play such video you indicated on ~150mzh palm device.

[jjesusfreak01]

Like ive said already, nothing is superior to the Clies with the dsp. They take very little battery and can do hvga at 25fps when the video is run in the native orientation. This requires special formatting, but there is no other palm or ppc device that can do this without insane amounts of processing power.

[Spiral]

Not true, the Axim X50v, one of the Hitachi's, Toshiba e800, Ipaq hx4700 all have hardware decoding.

[jjesusfreak01]

Ahh your probably right. Ill limit it to palm pdas. Could probably say that no other handheld with as low a power processor can do it.

Keeping me honest!

[madmaxmedia]

What is it based on? Of course 480xXXX resolution movie looks waay better than on lower res pdas (320x240ppcs and 32x320palms). On 320x240 movie DOES look a bit pixalated, because it is about same phisical size as hirez+palm screen but 2 times larger resolution. Why would anybody With T3/T5 would want to use tiny 320x240 res video? I see no reason for that. I only encode movies for my T3 with 480X272 (or 480x256) @25fps/@200-500kbps video 48kbps audio.

Hi Mike,

On a T3 or T5, definitely 480 x 320 is the way to go. Anything less such as 320 x 240 does look pixellated and blocky with MMplayer when you scale up.

But on the Sony CLIE's, videos encoded for Movie Player at 320 x 240 scale up to fullscreen much better. They don't look pixellated at all, and the screen density is still very good resulting in a sharp picture.

So for my personal usage, I found this preferable. I could then encode at a lower bitrate and still get a pretty sharp picture with low artifacting.

The problem with ImageConverter was that it was restricted in what it could convert, plus I was single-pass/ CBR only which is frankly poor.

Basically, I found that I could make great-looking 2-pass xVid, 320 x 240 at 24 FPS, with bitrate of 250 kbps or so. But ImageConverter required a higher bitrate to produce similar quality in my eyes.

Since then this new hack for the Sony's has opened things up a lot. The best video player for me would be the TH55 or a Sony PSP. But of course, that's just based on my personal preferences (one of which is not spending too much on memory cards.) I also wanted to fit a couple of movies plus regular data on a 1 GB card, so that calls for a lower bitrate.

PS- I had a T3 for awhile, and could never get 480 x 320 higher bitrate videos to play well (like the examples you mentioned.) But I'm sure that you've messed around with encoding much more than I have. I ended up selling the T3 before fully exploiting it.