1src Podcast Two

[Jeff Kirvin]

The PalmOne Tungsten T5 isn't as bad as you've been told. In fact, it's pretty darn cool if you know how to use it. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=722)]

[daver]

I'd love to hear all about it... if i could find it :cool:.

The link provided in the post is dead. Could someone re-post the MP3? Thanks. Loved the first one, and will definitely come back everyweek for the new ones.

[Elfyn]

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who couldn't find the podcast. Thought I was doing something wrong. I enjoyed the first one too and am looking forward to more. :D

[Lance]

Hello,

Since this is a LINUX or UNIX based server, capitalization does matter. The link in the RSS feed was 1SRCPodcastTwo.mp3 and not 1srcPodcastTwo.mp3.

Here is the link:

1src Podcast Two (http://www.1src.com/podcasts/1srcPodcastTwo.mp3)

Take care,
Lance

[Reggie]

Thanks Lance. I actually fixed the link already. Thanks.

[Lance]

Jeff,

Excellent job on podcasting! I look forward to future podcasts!

Sincerely,
Lance

[Reggie]

Kinoma versions of the podcasts have been added. Thanks Lance!

[Lance]

Hello,

You can stream the Kinoma formatted file using the Kinoma Player. Using version 2 or version 3 of the player, go the menu options. Under Media, select 'Play URL...' and enter in the URL of the Kinoma file. Kinoma will automatically start playing the podcast as it is downloaded to your handheld. Very nice when you if you are out and about.

1SRC Podcast One in Kinoma Format (http://www.1src.com/podcasts/kinoma/1srcPodcastOne.pdb)
1SRC Podcast Two in Kinoma Format (http://www.1src.com/podcasts/kinoma/1srcPodcastTwo.pdb)

Thanks,
Lance

[Reggie]

I just like to comment on how podcasts can be effective in describing things and stressing points. In this podcast, Jeff describes why a PDA and Bluetooth works. While a lot of us do this already, people new to the PDA world and wireless networking (PAN in this case), will find it easier to understand how their PDA can connect to other devices.

As for the T5, I agree that it's one of the best devices out there.

Great work on this podcast Jeff!

[quasar]

The issue with the T5: It all makes sense (wi-fi only being wanted by power users) execpt for the fact that the onlypeople who are going to be paying $400 for a PDA are power users and corporate folks, both of which want wi-fi. If the price was lower, it would be a plausible explanation, but not as the high-end model. High-end models are the ones that power-users get because they do power-user things.

[Possum]

OK to start out with I'd like to say that I don't think the T5 is a bad PDA, my roommate owns one and is perfectly happy with it, but...

I have to disagree with the assessment of the usefulness of wi-fi. I am currently using both wi-fi and bluetooth and wi-fi has been able to do some things I simply can not do well with bluetooth. I currently use microVNC to log onto my computer at home. I have even used it to access e-mail in the Mac Mail program or surf with safari and it's actually faster in some ways to Web Pro. I would also like to be able to listen to streaming audio which does work on Pocket PC's and does work with the T5, and here's where we get to my major gripe with Palm. Palm recently has been not providing ALL bug fix updates even when they should be able to run on older Palms even for an additional charge. Most of what is better about the T5 is the software that should be capable of running on a T3. If the programs were just added features, this wouldn't be so bad, but WebPro crashes if I'm not careful about switching the proxy on and off and using full screen without exiting the program and reopening it.

The idea of putting wi-fi in a cell phone instead just seems wrong to me. Not only would you be choking your connection speed with the bluetooth, but you would be draining the battery on two devices instead of just one, one of those devices being what you rely on for your voice communications. Yes, wi-fi DOES take up more power, meaning you're going to end up with a dead cell battery. In my oppinion, if you are going to do two devices (I have a SE610 and T3) you want a pretty tiny phone, which is going to have a smaller battery.

The missing wi-fi wasn't even the biggest oversight in my oppinion, it was removing the voice recorder (since wi-fi can now be at least added). Saying that wi-fi just adds complexity and therefore is a bad idea suggests we should all go out and buy Palms with 160x160 screen and useless pizo speakers.

My advice is to not believe the hype on either side of the fence and base your buying decision on ALL the facts and what your needs are.

I do find it unfortunate that Palm does not see a market for a more expensive Palm with the variety of options you see in Pocket PC's leaving you with the choice of better hardware or better PIM's.

Concerning the bluetooth PAN. It should be noted that none of the Palms support the headset profile yet (maybe the Treo???) and that the T5 has been reported to not work with SmartST GPS software.

[gfunkmagic]

I'm sorry but I disagree with almost EVERYTHING said in this podcast trying to rationalize the T5. :rolleyes:

Quote from podcast: "The T5 is not a power user's pda"

WELL THEN DON"T PRICE IT LIKE A POWER USERS'S PDA!!

Quote : "There are three problems with wifi: increase complexity, increase cost, and decrease battery life"

Umm... complexity? :confused: If it's so damned complex to create a dual wireless palmos pda then it's more of a negative assestment of the palmos then the actual complexity of dual wireless functionality. But then how the heck did Sony do it and almost every friggin PPC OEM around?! :rolleyes: That arguement is just weak...

Increase in cost? Dell Axim: nuff said. PalmOne can't BS by using the cost arguement b/c OEM's like Dell are showing full well that it can be done at reasonable price points.

Battery life? Solution is a replaceable battery!!!! I mean isn't that the point of NFVS?

Quote: "T5 plus blazer plus skweezer is a great solution"

That is an absolute pathetic solution. Not everyone wants to use a 3rd party proxy and not every taks can be done securely with a 3rd party proxy. In short, this is not a valid solution...sorry....

If you want to make the arguement that the T5 is a good device....then fine, I'll grant you that. But in order to justify the T5 and it's feature specs, then PalmOne should have done the following things:

1) Don't overprice the thing at $400 USD which is ridiculous. You can't price a device in a vacuum as if no other devices exist. Users will always campare the T5 against the Axims etc and in this comparison the T5 will ALWAYS lose on a spec by spec basis. The T5 should have been launched at $300 max imo

2) Don't call the thing the "T5"!! This was an absolute marketing disaster for PalmOne. The device should instead have been called the TE2. I asked PalmOne execs at the Treo roadshow as much and they agreed that the naming of the T5 was a marketing error. By naming the device the TE2, PalmOne may have avoided much of the criticisms it received regarding the T5.

3) Don't REMOVE features when upgrading a new device!! PalmOne should not have removed such features like the vibrating alarms, voice recorder, LED indicator etc. If the arguement is: well the T5 is really an upgrade to the TE and the TE never had these features.... Well great but you didn't call it the TE2 (see above) and you priced it as you flag ship pda (see above again). That was a stupid move that only compounded the anger of displeasure of most users...

In short, unless the T5 drops to under $300 USD any time soon, I would NEVER, NEVER recommend this pda to anyone, period. It may be a good pda, but just not for that price....sorry...

[Reggie]

gfunkmagic,

While you have valid points, let me clarify some things:

1. Re: powerusers. Yes, it's not aimed for powerusers - it's aimed for business people. Cost has nothing to do with what type of user you are.

2. Re: complexity. Jeff said it had to do with breakdown and not how easy it is to put dual wireless in a device.

3. Re cost: You have to tell HP that too. :D The T5 increased battery capacity and don't forget abot the NVRAM -- I guess a first.

4. Re: battery: a cellphone needs a replaceable battery (Treo 650) not for pda functions but for talktime, the T5 doesn't need it -- it has NVRAM anyway.

5. Re: Skweezer: A great surfing solution when on a Bluetooth connection. When doing secure surfing, I suggest don't do it on a PDA unless the site you are browsing is mobile ready.

6. Re: Price: Again, I think one of the main reasons it is $400 is because of the addition of NVRAM. Btw, all PDA's should have it.

7. Re: Features: Again, you should see by now that the T5 was not geared towards you who I consider a power user -- that's why you don't like it.

8: Re: recommending: What you are saying is, you won't be recommending it to another power user right?

[Lance]

Plain and simple. PalmOne went from driving the PDA market to following the PDA market, and I am not sure that they will ever drive the PDA market, again. With the potential in the smartphone market, I am not really sure they are even worried about it. PalmOne is concentrating on the Treo product line and well they should. The market is much larger, and PalmOne is driving the smartphone market as they once did the PDA market.

Personally, I do not like it anymore than others on this forum, but I really do not think we are large enough of a population to change the direction of PalmOne. At the same time, I think PalmOne under estimates the influence we have in the decisions the average user makes when purchasing technology.

Just my two cents...

Take care,
Lance

[Reggie]

Lance, I'm still not giving up on the Cobalt devices. :D

[mr_gkyc]

Hi,

I appreciated the encoding of this at CBR. I listened to it verbatim on my CLIE just before lunch during a walk and found it informative.

George

[Lance]

Lance, I'm still not giving up on the Cobalt devices. :DI am still hopeful because I really think PalmOne could drive the PDA market if they decided to do so. It is just that my expectations for PalmOne in the PDA market are a lot lower than they use to be, especially after seeing the projections that the PDA market will be squeezed out by the growth in the smartphone market.

By the way, don't you own a Treo? ;)

Best regards,
Lance

[Lance]

gfunkmagic,

While you have valid points, let me clarify some things:

1. Re: powerusers. Yes, it's not aimed for powerusers - it's aimed for business people. Cost has nothing to do with what type of user you are.

2. Re: complexity. Jeff said it had to do with breakdown and not how easy it is to put dual wireless in a device.

3. Re cost: You have to tell HP that too. :D The T5 increased battery capacity and don't forget abot the NVRAM -- I guess a first.

4. Re: battery: a cellphone needs a replaceable battery (Treo 650) not for pda functions but for talktime, the T5 doesn't need it -- it has NVRAM anyway.

5. Re: Skweezer: A great surfing solution when on a Bluetooth connection. When doing secure surfing, I suggest don't do it on a PDA unless the site you are browsing is mobile ready.

6. Re: Price: Again, I think one of the main reasons it is $400 is because of the addition of NVRAM. Btw, all PDA's should have it.

7. Re: Features: Again, you should see by now that the T5 was not geared towards you who I consider a power user -- that's why you don't like it.

8: Re: recommending: What you are saying is, you won't be recommending it to another power user right?
Good points, Reggie! At the same time...

I do not think PalmOne should have marketed the T5 as a T5. At the same time, I do not think it should have been an E2, either. It was different enough from both to be called something else.

In addition, I do think $400 was much a bit much to ask for the T5. I really think $300 - $350 would have been a better price point. Fortunately, you can already get one for less than $400, so it is not that bad.

What is a power user anyway? I have never used the voice recording feature of a PDA, and I have owned a Tungsten T, T2, T3, and a Dell Axim X50v. Does that make me an average user? What about WiFi? I have several power users on the plant site that will not use WiFi, and I have even let them borrow my WiFi card. I just think we are confusing a power user with a gadget guru because there is a false belief floating around that more is always better.

I would recommend the T5 to anyone where the product met the need, whether he/she was a novice or an advanced user.

Just another two cents. Maybe less... :)

Take care,
Lance

[Lance]

Hi,

I appreciated the encoding of this at CBR. I listened to it verbatim on my CLIE just before lunch during a walk and found it informative.

GeorgeWe want all to enjoy! :D

Have a good day,
Lance

[Joel]

My definition of a power user is a consumer who is aware of what a Palm-powered PDA could do and sets about ranting what it should or shouldn't do -- knowing all too well that it's not within their power to get their wishes. :D

[quasar]

gfunkmagic,

While you have valid points, let me clarify some things:

1. Re: powerusers. Yes, it's not aimed for powerusers - it's aimed for business people. Cost has nothing to do with what type of user you are.

>>>Buisinesses don't use Bluetooth for their networks- they use Wi-Fi. And businesses always want a good deal, anyway.

2. Re: complexity. Jeff said it had to do with breakdown and not how easy it is to put dual wireless in a device.

>>>People would put up with the increased chance of a malfunction in return for the desired features.

3. Re cost: You have to tell HP that too. :D The T5 increased battery capacity and don't forget abot the NVRAM -- I guess a first.

>>No, it's not a first. The Sharp Zaurii have had them for a while. Anyway, it can't cost that much. At the least, they can mass-order 256MB SD cards online for $50 each and put them in. They must be at least making $50 profit. And they could make the device $325 for that feature if they needed more profit.

4. Re: battery: a cellphone needs a replaceable battery (Treo 650) not for pda functions but for talktime, the T5 doesn't need it -- it has NVRAM anyway.

>>>The idea is that if the T5 had what a lot (not all, maybe not even most, I understand) want, it would-- and it would solve the problem. Many other handhelds on the market now have removable batteries, and they work just fine. Cell phones aren't the only things that need removable batteries. Anything's better if it has removable, rechargable batteries, and a high-end PDA is just the spot for them. And NVRAM doesn't cut the mustard as an excuse if the PDA's too dead to do anything. Data retention isn't the entire idea here.

5. Re: Skweezer: A great surfing solution when on a Bluetooth connection. When doing secure surfing, I suggest don't do it on a PDA unless the site you are browsing is mobile ready.

>>>Many people are replacing their laptops with handhelds because thy are very capable devices for the task in most situations. Yes, Skweezer can come in handy for a lot of things, but there needs to be the possibility of doing things the traditional way without negative performance effects. Besides, pa1mOne isn't backing Skweezer, so it's still no excuse for them to do a poor job.

6. Re: Price: Again, I think one of the main reasons it is $400 is because of the addition of NVRAM. Btw, all PDA's should have it.

>>>Yes, they should. But it can't add that much to the cost. For that $100 price increase that the NVRAM supposedly justifies, you could get two 1GB SD cards online after rebates instead of the 256MB that they put into the handheld.

7. Re: Features: Again, you should see by now that the T5 was not geared towards you who I consider a power user -- that's why you don't like it.

>>>The price range that the T5 is in is the range that only three categories of people will buy in: Rich folk who have enough money to skip the low-end and mid-range lines, business users, and power users. Now, most folks aren't in class 1. Both business and power users want the most that they can get for their money, and when the competition offers more, they're going there. If they need to get onto their corporate network, they'll put up with any performance differences to get an Axim for less that does the job. If you price it for power users, make power users want it, because it sure isn't an entry-level device.

8: Re: recommending: What you are saying is, you won't be recommending it to another power user right?

>>>Again, the only people whio'll buy it in this price range are corporate and power users, so that must be the case. If you're recommending a handheld to a non-power user or a first-timer, you show them an inexpensive one. And no matter what class the user falls under, they still want the best bang for the buck, and that's not this. Yes, it is a good handheld by itself, but compared to the others around, it doesn't cut the mustard.



And besides all of this, using bluetooth means that you have to aquire and pay for a bluetooth phone and then pay some crazy fee for a decent data plan instead of skipping around to different hotspots like you can with wi-fi.

[quasar]

gfunkmagic,

While you have valid points, let me clarify some things:

1. Re: powerusers. Yes, it's not aimed for powerusers - it's aimed for business people. Cost has nothing to do with what type of user you are.

>>Business and power uses are the people who are going to buuy this device at this price, because no one else values a handheld at $400. Both groups of people need the most that they can get, and the T5 isin't it.

2. Re: complexity. Jeff said it had to do with breakdown and not how easy it is to put dual wireless in a device.

>>>People will put up with a greater chance of malfunction in exchange for the features they want. Besides, we don't have a bunch of people giving up on Pocket PCs for unreliability, do we?

3. Re cost: You have to tell HP that too. :D The T5 increased battery capacity and don't forget abot the NVRAM -- I guess a first.

>>>It's not a first, the Spart Zaurii have had it for a while. And for the $100 price difference that is between the actual cost and the 'should be' cost could buy two 1GB SD cards online after rebates. People could just buy those, or pa1mOne could put them in for the memory. And as long as one OEM can do it, it proves that it's possible.

4. Re: battery: a cellphone needs a replaceable battery (Treo 650) not for pda functions but for talktime, the T5 doesn't need it -- it has NVRAM anyway.

>>>Any electronic device is better with a removable. rechargable battery. And just because it's not a phone doesn't mean it's not needed. Or wanted. People want to rely on their handhelds for enduring connectivity just as much as their phones. Just because you don't talk on one doesn't mean that you don't need the extra juice. And many other PDAs on the market have this option. pa1mOne needs to keep up.

5. Re: Skweezer: A great surfing solution when on a Bluetooth connection. When doing secure surfing, I suggest don't do it on a PDA unless the site you are browsing is mobile ready.

>>>Not everyone want's to use a special portal, no matter how good it is. And it won't work in every situation. And pa1mOne's not backing skweezer anyway, so it doesn't excuse their poor work.

6. Re: Price: Again, I think one of the main reasons it is $400 is because of the addition of NVRAM. Btw, all PDA's should have it.

>>>Let's think about this. Did anyone ask for NVRAM in the new model? If some did, not many. Did people ask for Wi-Fi? Yes, very much so. Which is smarter: Charge more for something new or for something a bunch of people want. Even if 80% don't use wi-fi, 20% still do, and that's a good number, and that's 20% less sales that they'll be getting.

7. Re: Features: Again, you should see by now that the T5 was not geared towards you who I consider a power user -- that's why you don't like it.

>>>Who else is going to buy one, a newbie? Only power users and businesses spend $400 on a PDA, and both want the best offer, and Windows Mobile OEMs offer more, often for less.

8: Re: recommending: What you are saying is, you won't be recommending it to another power user right?

>>>Power users, not newbies or light-weight users, would spend that much on a PDA, so their appeasement should come first. If you're recommending a PDA to a newbie or someone who would use it for light work, I should hope you don't point them towards a $400 model. Besides, everyone wants the best bang for the buck, no matter what class they're in.


And on top of that, using Bluetooth means aquiring a Bluetooth phone, and paying a high rate for a decent data service instead of just hopping from hotspot to hotspot with Wi-Fi. And all of this could be made agreeable to both sides with dual wireless. If you don;t turn Wi-Fi on, it does nothing to your battery. I am a full supporter of Bluetooth, but not as a replacement for Wi-Fi. Even the people from Bluetooth have said that it's not meant to be.

[quasar]

Oops.. Sorry abou that. I made the first post, and it didn't show up, so I did it again.

[Vidge]

Lance, I'm still not giving up on the Cobalt devices. :D

I have to admit that I'm not holding my breath for one of these :( I've got the U750P on order instead.

[Reggie]

I have to admit that I'm not holding my breath for one of these :( I've got the U750P on order instead.

Congrats on your U750P Vidge! I'm just wondering why you didn't get a Tablet PC instead? ;)

[strider_mt2k]

Sorry I couldn't comment right away in on the 2nd 1SRC podcast- My PC crashed and I had to reinstall everything. (Still not done)

Thank you for making it possible to listen to the 'cast using Audio Player on my TH55.
It works fine now, and was a pleasure to listen to, even if I don't agree with some of Jeff's views on WiFi.

Maybe I'm not in the majority, but both podcasts were downloaded directly to my Sony TH55 via WiFi. (now that the mp3 file is CBR, the entire operation is flawlessly handled)
I also use WiFi hotspots when I travel.
I wish I could afford BT phones and such, but I can't.
I DO use a connection cable to make use of my cell phone though, so BT might be in my future.
It's certainly not in my present though.

[lekeno]

I agree with strider_mt2k.

I'm using a lot the WiFi of the TH-55. I can't live without it. I'm downloading podcasts (1SRC, Engadget), I'm checking my email, checking my RSS feeds, checking the weather, checking the stats of my blog, posting (articles, images) from TH-55 to my blog via FTP, playing mp3 shoutcast stream, using VNC to connect to the office PC and so on...

I too can't afford a bluetooth phone + data plan.

The advantage of bluetooth is that you can connect with different devices like GPS as Jeff mentionned. He is right to say that bluetooth should not be compared to WiFi. But imho, WiFi is a really important feature of a PDA (except if you really don't care about paying $$$ for a data plan).

Interesting listening !
Thanks.

[Vidge]

Congrats on your U750P Vidge! I'm just wondering why you didn't get a Tablet PC instead? ;)

Size. I wanted something small enough to replace a PDA ;)

[Lance]

I have to admit that I'm not holding my breath for one of these :( I've got the U750P on order instead.Congratulations! Keep us posted when you get your new toy! ;)

Thanks,
Lance

[mr_gkyc]

I agree with strider_mt2k.

I'm using a lot the WiFi of the TH-55. I can't live without it. I'm downloading podcasts (1SRC, Engadget)


Pardon me for asking but when one downloads a file via NetFront, it seems to only allow storing it at \Palm\Programs\MSFILE. To use the Podcast MP3, you'd need to move the file to \Palm\Programs\MSAUDIO. However, I observe that CLIE File's 'move' operation is very slow because it copies the file to the new location and delete the old file. Not only is this method slow but it also requires enough free space for 2 copies of the file. Is there a better way?


...checking my RSS feeds


What are you using for this? I only see the payware one called Hand/RSS. Any other (free) choice?


...using VNC to connect to the office PC and so on...


How do you find VNC on the TH55. I've used it with Windows 2000 connecting to another Windows 2000 box and it was kinda ok. Refresh and kinda dicey. How's the speed of it on the TH55?

Thanks.

George

[strider_mt2k]

I honestly don't know.
When I DLed the 'cast on my TH55, it simply went where it should have.

[lekeno]

Pardon me for asking but when one downloads a file via NetFront, it seems to only allow storing it at \Palm\Programs\MSFILE. To use the Podcast MP3, you'd need to move the file to \Palm\Programs\MSAUDIO. However, I observe that CLIE File's 'move' operation is very slow because it copies the file to the new location and delete the old file. Not only is this method slow but it also requires enough free space for 2 copies of the file. Is there a better way?


AFAIK, it goes directly to MSAUDIO for me. Also I'm using pocket tunes which can play files from any directories.


What are you using for this? I only see the payware one called Hand/RSS. Any other (free) choice?

AFAIK there is no free alternative. There is feedburner mobile at http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/mfr (cheaper but require java vm).
You could use an online (free) rss reader like bloglines.com




How do you find VNC on the TH55. I've used it with Windows 2000 connecting to another Windows 2000 box and it was kinda ok. Refresh and kinda dicey. How's the speed of it on the TH55?


I'm using PalmVNC 2.0 and the speed is ok. http://palmvnc2.free.fr/

[Possum]

MicroVNC isn't free but it's a huge upgrade compared to PalmVNC. It supports compression and server side scaling. Suggest you check this out if you continue to use VNC on the Palm.

[Vidge]

Congratulations! Keep us posted when you get your new toy! ;)

Thanks,
Lance
Well, I got it. Rather than going completely OT here, I'll be updating my thoughts on it here (http://www.dailygadget.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4355)

[archangel]

I'm sorry but I disagree with almost EVERYTHING said in this podcast trying to rationalize the T5. :rolleyes:


I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that podcast was terrible.

I listened to it today and shook my head throughout it. I really have no problem with Palm including Bluetooth, but at a $400 price point Wi-Fi had better be on there as well. Despite what was said in the podcast Bluetooth is not very good for surfing or streaming music. Wi-Fi is vastly superior not to mention how expensive it is using your cell phone for portable internet. I have Bluetooth on my Zodiac and I doubt I will ever use it for anything. Wi-Fi support is what got me to finally buy a Zodiac. The second podcast was pretty sad in my opinion. Trying to justify the T5 and trying to trump up Bluetooth which is a technology few people care about. Wi-Fi is the future of mobile devices and Palmone needs to get on board with their high end devices.

[Lance]

Well, I got it. Rather than going completely OT here, I'll be updating my thoughts on it here (http://www.dailygadget.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4355)Thanks for the link. I look forward to hearing more. The $2,000 price tag is a limiting factor for me, but I have never let that keep me from looking and reading. Again, thanks for sharing!

Take care,
Lance

By the way, I read somewhere when someone uses his U750P with a portable bluetooth keyboard and a portable bluetooth mouse to make the perfect road warrior system. At least, he thought so! :)

[Lance]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that podcast was terrible.

I listened to it today and shook my head throughout it. I really have no problem with Palm including Bluetooth, but at a $400 price point Wi-Fi had better be on there as well. Despite what was said in the podcast Bluetooth is not very good for surfing or streaming music. Wi-Fi is vastly superior not to mention how expensive it is using your cell phone for portable internet. I have Bluetooth on my Zodiac and I doubt I will ever use it for anything. Wi-Fi support is what got me to finally buy a Zodiac. The second podcast was pretty sad in my opinion. Trying to justify the T5 and trying to trump up Bluetooth which is a technology few people care about. Wi-Fi is the future of mobile devices and Palmone needs to get on board with their high end devices.I think he did a good job even though you might not agree with him. We do not create articles and/or podcasts with the assumption that everyone will agree with them, but we do want to provide a quality presentation. I think Jeff did that, and he is only getting better with the podcasts. Whether you agree with him or not, well, that is another story. ;)

Thanks,
Lance

[archangel]

I think he did a good job even though you might not agree with him. We do not create articles and/or podcasts with the assumption that everyone will agree with them, but we do want to provide a quality presentation. I think Jeff did that, and he is only getting better with the podcasts. Whether you agree with him or not, well, that is another story. ;)

Thanks,
Lance

Me not agreeing with the podcast had nothing to do with thinking it was terrible. Jeff did a very poor job of proving his point about the greatness of the T5 and especially Bluetooth. It came off as anything, but an informed, quality opinion. He sounded more like someone making excuses for the T5 and Bluetooth than someone trying to give an informed opinion about the two.

His examples for why Bluetooth was better than Wi-Fi really struck me as far fetched and not something really easier or better than Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi is better to have in your phone? Really, I would think my PDA with a large Lithium Ion battery that I can surf with over Wi-Fi for hours would be a better choice than my tiny phone that would probably die in 30 minutes or less.

Sorry, but I have used Bluetooth to surf on a T3 and I have used Wi-Fi with the Clie and the Zodiac. Wi-Fi wins hands down. I'm all for both, but there is no excuse for it not being included in the T5 at the $400 price point when the Pocket PC competition puts both in devices costing less.

Sorry, but I stand by my opinion that it was a terrible podcast and not just because I don't agree with him. I thought he did a great job on the first one and did a much better job of presenting his information.

[cyd]

Hello,

I'm french and my poor english doesn't let me understand what it is about at 15 minute of the podcast... something that have to do with soft input technology and COBOL, but could anybody explain me what Jeff meant?

Thank's

CYrille

[lekeno]

I'm french too. I don't have the time to listen to the podcast now but I'm pretty sure there is nothing about COBOL. I think you misheard COBALT (the new palm OS) . To be honest I also thought he said COBOL :-D I guess that's because COBALT in french sounds very different : co bal T(eu).

[Bionic Antboy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that podcast was terrible.

I listened to it today and shook my head throughout it. I really have no problem with Palm including Bluetooth, but at a $400 price point Wi-Fi had better be on there as well. Despite what was said in the podcast Bluetooth is not very good for surfing or streaming music. Wi-Fi is vastly superior not to mention how expensive it is using your cell phone for portable internet. I have Bluetooth on my Zodiac and I doubt I will ever use it for anything. Wi-Fi support is what got me to finally buy a Zodiac. The second podcast was pretty sad in my opinion. Trying to justify the T5 and trying to trump up Bluetooth which is a technology few people care about. Wi-Fi is the future of mobile devices and Palmone needs to get on board with their high end devices.

After listening to the podcast on the way into work this morning, I'd more or less agree with your assessment.

Although there's nothing wrong with a bluetooth PAN, the "anti-WiFi" slant made no sense, as I would NEVER get a new PDA without it built in. When my UX gives up the ghost, I'll be going to PPC if there's no PalmOS device with WiFi built-in. It's been too practical to lose for me. WiFi has probably saved me over $300 in cab fares and hours of travel time to access the company FreeBSD server.

Not to mention being able to download mp3s off my server if I REALLY want a particular song, as I can be listening to a track in the background while I do so, or hitting receive on the mail app just about anywhere, and getting mail.

Overall, it was the poorly reasoned "anti-WiFi" arguments that really turned me off of this podcast. I would have enjoyed much more if Jeff had limited the WiFi comments to...

"For those without a WiFi-enabled PDA, such as the new T5..." and left it at that. ;)

[Reggie]

I still think Jeff's examples were realistic. How he described Bluetooth as a USB extension and WiFi as an ethernet extension is the most layman description I've heard of. Those who are looking for WiFi are actually those who basically want to connect their device online. Those who are into Bluetooth basically wants to connect their device with other devices. Again, Bluetooth and WiFi are not aimed to be compared.

As for the price, as what Lance said, you can get a T5 now for $320 (link (http://1src.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4241177/search=Tungsten%20T5)). But then, price has always been the issue -- remember the NZ90, UX50, TH55, iQue 3600 -- but a lot still bought them. The only gripe that I have is why PalmOne requires it's PalmOne WiFi SD card to be used on the T5 and not the Sandisk Wifi SD (about three times cheaper). Tapwave released a Zodiac WiFi driver that will work for both brands, why does PalmOne have to block non-PalmOne WiFi SD's.

Lastly, for those who has seen the T5 only through specs or through the stores, I hope, if you have the means, that you can try it out for a week and see how it has improved from previous PalmOne models. For me, the thought that I don't have to worry about losing all my data and settings even if I lose power is such a convenience -- no more daily backups.

[archangel]

The only gripe that I have is why PalmOne requires it's PalmOne WiFi SD card to be used on the T5 and not the Sandisk Wifi SD (about three times cheaper). Tapwave released a Zodiac WiFi driver that will work for both brands, why does PalmOne have to block non-PalmOne WiFi SD's.


Jeff mentioned this as well in the podcast. It does look like Palmone's reasons for not including Wi-Fi on some of their devices and especially for blocking the Sandisk card revolves at least partly around profit. I don't want to see Palmone go bankrupt, but I wish they could find a way to be profitable without using tactics like this.

It made my choice to go with Tapwave over Palmone very easy.

[Jeff Kirvin]

The issue with the T5: It all makes sense (wi-fi only being wanted by power users) execpt for the fact that the onlypeople who are going to be paying $400 for a PDA are power users and corporate folks, both of which want wi-fi. If the price was lower, it would be a plausible explanation, but not as the high-end model. High-end models are the ones that power-users get because they do power-user things.
Actually, the high-end models from PalmOne are the $600 Treos. The T5 is mid-range. To an executive, $400 isn't much, really. You're thinking like a consumer that has to buy one with his own money. My dad got a T5 for work and his boss (a VP of the company) signed off on his PO without batting an eye. That was for the T5, WiFi card, IR keyboard and some software.

Sorry for the lateness of the reply, I forgot I have to subscribe manually to the thread even those I created it. :o

[Jeff Kirvin]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that podcast was terrible.

I listened to it today and shook my head throughout it. I really have no problem with Palm including Bluetooth, but at a $400 price point Wi-Fi had better be on there as well. Despite what was said in the podcast Bluetooth is not very good for surfing or streaming music. Wi-Fi is vastly superior not to mention how expensive it is using your cell phone for portable internet. I have Bluetooth on my Zodiac and I doubt I will ever use it for anything. Wi-Fi support is what got me to finally buy a Zodiac. The second podcast was pretty sad in my opinion. Trying to justify the T5 and trying to trump up Bluetooth which is a technology few people care about. Wi-Fi is the future of mobile devices and Palmone needs to get on board with their high end devices.
Ow.

I don't get you people that try to compare BT to WiFi on cost. I pay $15/month to get unlimited CDMA (80-100 kbps) internet access on my phone. I'd pay significantly more if I had to use the for-pay hotspots here in Denver. If you're not in NYC, there just aren't that many free hotspots out there. Cellular is actually cheaper, at least here in the midwest.

I'm not saying WiFi is bad, and I'm most definitely not "anti-WiFi". But I don't think it belongs in a PDA. It belongs with all the other communications technology. And if your phone's battery is too light to handle that, I'm not surprised. A phone with built-in WiFi would certainly be designed with more juice. I'm not talking about retrofitting what you have, I'm talking about designing new hardware that makes more sense.

[archangel]

I'm not saying WiFi is bad, and I'm most definitely not "anti-WiFi". But I don't think it belongs in a PDA. It belongs with all the other communications technology. And if your phone's battery is too light to handle that, I'm not surprised. A phone with built-in WiFi would certainly be designed with more juice. I'm not talking about retrofitting what you have, I'm talking about designing new hardware that makes more sense.

I certainly respect your opinion on it and it does depend on the situation. For me I have a Wi-Fi network at home, at work and at one of the places I eat lunch. I can access them all free of charge. It is just way more convienent for me to have Wi-Fi in my PDA. I understand the reasoning for the Wi-Fi in the phone, but it doesn't interest me at all. Not to mention I want my cell phone as small as possible (main reason I will never own a smart phone). That is just not going to work with a battery draining technology like Wi-Fi. Bigger battery means bigger phone, but hopefully some new technology will solve this problem at some point. Where are those butane battery cells?

Nothing wrong with also having a Bluetooth phone and PDA when you can't access the hotspots, but you have to at least have the option of both. Again at the $400 price point Palm should put both in the PDA. This is an area where the PPCs are again years ahead of the Palm OS world. It gets really tiresome being a Palm OS supporter when the main companies like Palmone refuse to keep pace with technology.

I don't even have a big issue with buying an add on card like I did for the Zodiac, but Tapwave makes up for it by making their PDA more affordable and by letting me choose the most affordable card. Palmone strikes out on all counts on this with the T5.

I will agree that the T5 is great for business as designed, but if I was a corporation I would be spending money on PPCs instead of Palm PDAs anyway. You can get a lot more for your money that way and that is what most companies are looking at. My company will not give you money to buy anything, but Blackberrys and Dell Pocket PCs. You give them a bill for a T5 and they will tell you to pay for it yourself.

[Vidge]

IMNSHO, Palm is making a critical error in not including Wifi on their PDAs. The reality is that the Treo line doesn't appeal to everybody, much less fit all their needs. While Palm is playing games with Wifi, PPCs are overtaking the market. Palm is on the verge of becoming the Mac of the PDA world purely due to its head-in-the-sand mentality about Wifi. Bluetooth has its place its uses but the corporate world has embraced Wifi & that is unlikely to change.

[mimiosa]

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