TE, or TE2 (erm, I mean T5...)

[Wollombi]

Ok, here is the deal.

I'm tired of the T3's slider (even though I just bought a new T3 to replace my broken one). It's starting to actually bug me. It didn't used to matter, but I like having the whole screen available all of the time like I did when I used a Handera 330. The positive of the sliding design is a nice compact design, but I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is considereing I can still fit a TE, and possibly even a T5 comfortably in my pocket.

Additionally, while I have always considered the TE a nice unit, I was even more attracted to it the other day when I saw it in its hard case. I have to say that Palm actually did a decent job with that particular case.
The Pros of the TE:
- Nice form factor, IMO
- Proven performer.
- Comes with a free hard case.
- Good quality screen.
- Same PIM apps as the T3 (unless I've forgotten/missed something...feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on this).

The Cons:
- only 320x320 screen, and I like the 320x480 screen
- half the RAM of what I currently have, although this is easily worked around as I have a 1GB SD card.
- Slower processor, but I already underclock the T3 (with the exception of certain apps, which run at normal or overclocked speeds) to save battery life. Still, even underclocked it's running faster than the proc in the TE.
- Lose vibrating alarms. This is moderately important to me.
- Lose voice recorder. I use this from time to time, but could easily replace the functionality with a small voice recorder. I would lose the convenience of the "all-in-one" solution.
- I have a nice, leather Vaja case for my T3 that I would of course lose the use of.
- No Bluetooth.

That list of TE "cons" leads me to (I never thought I'd say this....EVER) consider the T5. :eek:

Pros:
- Still a decent form factor.
- Full screen, all the time.
- Fast processor and good power management.
- Lots of memory, albeit a funky setup.
- Free hard case (?)
- Much better battery life over the T3.
- Color of the case is nicer than the TE.
- Still has Bluetooth.

Cons:
- Low bang for the buck, to state it mildly.
- Has been buggy as hell.
- Some 3rd party app support issues.
- BackupMan won't work.
- Funky memory configuration.
- Loss of vibrating alarms.
- Speaker placed on back - this is a mild concern, not so much a "con".
- Loss of cradle/cables, but I would get this with the TE also.
- Can't "port" to Graffiti 1. This can theoretically be worked around with TealScript, but I have given G2 a chance, and it has been found wanting.


I don't care about metal vs. plastic much, as long as the unit is relatively sturdy.

I'm having a hard time deciding on what to do. The future of what will come out of P1 is getting harder and harder to accurately guess, and I'm not sure if I should just stick it out with the T3 or spend money now. Of course, my own advice is usually use what meets your needs today. T3 does this, but the slider is becoming its achillies heel. The main things pushing me to look at the T5 over the TE are the full screen, Bluetooth, and RAM.

Sooo....anyone have any words of advice?

Who here is using a T5 and having a good experience with it? Am I missing any pros/cons of the unit? Or is it, as Gekko so elegantly puts it, a pig with lipstick?

I almost feel dirty considering the T5, but it seem to have the best potential for meeting my wants at the present. :confused:

[The Palmster]

I don't know why you would feel dirty considering the T5. Take a look at the first two threads by Lance. These are all (or almost all) satisfied T5 users. The cons you refer to can be worked around relatively easily. Here is my two cents.

That list of TE "cons" leads me to (I never thought I'd say this....EVER) consider the T5. :eek:

Pros:
- Still a decent form factor.
- Full screen, all the time.
- Fast processor and good power management.
- Lots of memory, albeit a funky setup.
- Free hard case (?)
- Much better battery life over the T3.
- Color of the case is nicer than the TE.
- Still has Bluetooth.

Cons:
- Low bang for the buck, to state it mildly.
- Has been buggy as hell.
- Some 3rd party app support issues.
- BackupMan won't work.
- Funky memory configuration.
- Loss of vibrating alarms.
- Speaker placed on back - this is a mild concern, not so much a "con".
- Loss of cradle/cables, but I would get this with the TE also.
- Can't "port" to Graffiti 1. This can theoretically be worked around with TealScript, but I have given G2 a chance, and it has been found wanting.

- This was the same price you paid for your T3 one year ago. Now you get a better form factor, significantly better battery life, significantly more memory, an accessable USB harddrive and a new Applications button which is quite useful once you start using it. OK, I admit, not a HUGE upgrade from the T3 but as I said you paid this price for the T3 one year ago. Realistically, how much different is the PC you bought last year compared to the one you buy today? Difference is usually in processor speed and memory. Both computers still do pretty much the same old thing. I think PDAs are getting close to reaching a plateau.

- Bugs, third party apps and backup problems can all be attributable to the fact that this is a whole new operating system. Remember when WindowsXP first came out? Same thing. It will take a little time. Take a look at Lance's compatibility list and you will find that there have already been MANY third party bug fixes. Backup program is just a matter of time. I note, however, that TealPoint has introduced a new TealBackup program advertised as being fully compatible with the T5.

- The memory configuration just takes some getting used to. Once you've figured it out (not that complicated really) then you're good to go.

- Loss of vibrating alarms. Is this even worth mentioning?

- Speaker on the back. Awkward but not really a major con.

- Cradle. This is a serious marketing error by PalmOne. Their high end PDA should have come with a cradle. Worse, the cradles are not even available and may not be until January or February, 2005. This is inexcusable but in the grand scheme of things, another minor irritant.

- Graffiti 1. Why PalmOne doesn't reintroduce Graffiti 1 is beyond me. I've stopped trying to figure this out. TealScript is your answer although I have run into one minor bug with TealScript on the T5 but there is a workaround which is fine until the good people at TealPoint release a new version.

So...my recommendation...go buy the T5. Stop listening to all the naysayers on this site who haven't "lived" with the T5 for a significant period of time. This includes Gekko who returned his T5 after two or three days. Those of us who have bought the T5 and committed to it have generally enjoyed the experience.

Hope this helps you.

[Tam Hanna]

I would not get the T5 for the following reasons:
1) Outlook sync problems-German users report about incredible problems with Outlook and Appointments. The Conduit does not work well or creates Meetings instead of Appointments, which is a difference in Outlook....
2) It is waay to expensive for the petrformance
3) I myself saw it in a store-the screen of a T3 is waaay better!
4) Hard buttons are difficult to use compared to T3
4) Just glue/jam the slider of your T3 open and insert a memory card-alas, a faster Palm then your T5 will ever be....

Just my 2 Cents

[Alsicole]

Another thought to consider - new version of BackupMan from Bits & Bolts does now work!

Battery life is excellent, screen is excellent, I've not had many issues with mine and what resets I've had were caused by me installing software that wasn't compatible. Compared to your T3 (and the Zire 72 I had previously), the battery life really is amazing.

[ucfgrad93]

Sooo....anyone have any words of advice?

I am in a similar situation, however, its the T|3's battery life not slider driving my urge to upgrade. I am going to wait until the spring announcements from PalmOne before upgrading. Not only will I get to choose from the newest devices, but it will also give time for most of the kinks on the T|5 to be worked out.

Or is it, as Gekko so elegantly puts it, a pig with lipstick?

Honestly, I think Gekko has a pig fetish. :rolleyes: The T|5 is overpriced but most of the bugs seem to be software related and should dissappear with time.

[jessenajera]

I really am enjoying my T5, I do not notice the size issue at all. As for the T3 screen being better(sony with the stage lights), I agree but there is a trade off. You can hear the thing whining across the room :p I would prefer my not so good silent screen. One thing I do miss though are my pdamill games, are any of them working yet?

[Wollombi]

- This was the same price you paid for your T3 one year ago. Now you get a better form factor, significantly better battery life, significantly more memory, an accessable USB harddrive and a new Applications button which is quite useful once you start using it. OK, I admit, not a HUGE upgrade from the T3 but as I said you paid this price for the T3 one year ago. Realistically, how much different is the PC you bought last year compared to the one you buy today? Difference is usually in processor speed and memory. Both computers still do pretty much the same old thing. I think PDAs are getting close to reaching a plateau.

Acutally, T5 is more of a "sidegrade" than an upgrade from the T3. There are tradeoffs to either one. As far as my PC, well, I build my own, and they are definitely more capable from one to the next when I do it. PalmOS PDA's still have a long way to go before they reach a "plateau". You can still put in multitasking and dual wireless (BT AND WiFi), and add an additional card slot. There still remains to appear a modern PalmOS PDA that meets the innovation of what the Handera330 offered in OS 3.5 (and for some, 4.1).




- Bugs, third party apps and backup problems can all be attributable to the fact that this is a whole new operating system. Remember when WindowsXP first came out? Same thing. It will take a little time.

I would tend to disagree with you here. OS 5.4 was never touted as a "whole new operating system", it was presented as a "maintenance release", meaning a bugfix of the previous OS5. You don't fix bugs by creating additional...uh..."features" (unless you're MicroSnot). =)




- The memory configuration just takes some getting used to. Once you've figured it out (not that complicated really) then you're good to go.

Not much to figure out, really, but it's value remains to be seen. There have already been issues raised about the way flash stores data in segments that are often larger than the files being saved. This reduces your usable memory, but there is enough that it shouldn't affect me (As I said, I already have a large SD card). The issue comes in when applications start proclaiming that there isn't enough memory to operate. This is a result of the "new" configuration.




- Loss of vibrating alarms. Is this even worth mentioning?

For me it is. I was just in a meeting this morning where a colleague's PDA alarm went off (quite audibly) in the middle of it. This is NOT something I want happening. In many companies it's considered a breach of etiquette.



- Speaker on the back. Awkward but not really a major con.

- Cradle. This is a serious marketing error by PalmOne. Their high end PDA should have come with a cradle. Worse, the cradles are not even available and may not be until January or February, 2005. This is inexcusable but in the grand scheme of things, another minor irritant.

- Graffiti 1. Why PalmOne doesn't reintroduce Graffiti 1 is beyond me. I've stopped trying to figure this out. TealScript is your answer although I have run into one minor bug with TealScript on the T5 but there is a workaround which is fine until the good people at TealPoint release a new version.

I agree. As I mentioned these are minor issues for me. Although I do like having a cradle, and paying extra for it just annoys me to no end.



So...my recommendation...go buy the T5. Stop listening to all the naysayers on this site who haven't "lived" with the T5 for a significant period of time. This includes Gekko who returned his T5 after two or three days. Those of us who have bought the T5 and committed to it have generally enjoyed the experience.

While I occasionally find Gekko's rants entertaining, he is not my source of doubt over the T5. My own misgivings come from both a large number of complaints on various forums and my own experiences as a PDA user.




Hope this helps you.
Thanks for the input. I do appreciate it.





1) Outlook sync problems-German users report about incredible problems with Outlook and Appointments. The Conduit does not work well or creates Meetings instead of Appointments, which is a difference in Outlook....

I loathe Outlook, and ditched it completely long ago (except at work, where I don't sync with it) so this is a non-issue for me. Besides, I can always use Pocket Mirror in a pinch.



2) It is waay to expensive for the petrformance

This has been holding me back. If this had been priced $100.00 less I would see more value in it. I do, however have the chance of getting one without cost, due to a service plan I bought on the broken T3 I had, which is currently in the store's possesion as they evaluate whether or not they can fix it. If they decide against repair, I will likely get a T5 instead, as I don't want a Z72, even the special edition.



3) I myself saw it in a store-the screen of a T3 is waaay better!
4) Hard buttons are difficult to use compared to T3

From what I've seen first-hand, these are basically a wash for me between the two. Although I would lose the VR button on the T3, which I use for one-handed scrolling.



Another thought to consider - new version of BackupMan from Bits & Bolts does now work!

Battery life is excellent, screen is excellent, I've not had many issues with mine and what resets I've had were caused by me installing software that wasn't compatible. Compared to your T3 (and the Zire 72 I had previously), the battery life really is amazing.

That's great news about BackupMan! Although I'd like to know the nature of the fix before I get too excited.

The battery life and screen are what have been making me look to the T5 recently, but I worry that I'll miss some of the T3 features that are not included on the T5. I also worry that the PDA I'm waiting for is coming in March, but it's getting exponentially harder to fortell these things lately.




I am in a similar situation, however, its the T|3's battery life not slider driving my urge to upgrade. I am going to wait until the spring announcements from PalmOne before upgrading. Not only will I get to choose from the newest devices, but it will also give time for most of the kinks on the T|5 to be worked out.

Battery life is another factor driving me, but I've dealt with it fairly well with underclocking and PowerToGo (which I rarely have to use...it's generally a charger for short trips). I originally was going to wait for spring, and may still, but after what happened this fall, and all of the potential change swirling around P1/PalmSource, I really can't be sure if that will pay off or not. Here's hoping my original T3 comes back a T5. Then I can play with it "cost free", and still have the T3 as a backup until I decide to keep it or sell it.


Please, folks, keep the input coming!

Thanks

[Antoine]

Wollombi, it sounds to me that the T5 would be a good call for you, if the T3 is not able to be repaired. I will not repeat your reasons, but the Backup Man issue is probably going to rate pretty high for you. I have a TE now and would more than love the better battery of the T5. I was one who saw the slider as great for the T2 but for the T3 it was less innovation and more waste in my eyes. I think that having the full screen all the time would make for a much better overall experience, even if you lose some pocketability.

As for the programs that dont like the memory setup, I agree that a bugfix shouldnt have broken so much, but part of what P1 did was memory change and OS update, somewhere in there something was not going to work. I would rather that they would break it now, so that when newer devices come out it would be a better user experience. The other issue that I think some programs are having is with PACE 3 on the T5, it isnt PACE 2 and according to some dev docs that I read, it was even more restrictive than PACE 2 was with software that tried to loop holes in PalmOS. If that is the case, it just means that programmers need to follow teh rules more closley. I believe that anything that works on the T5 will work just fine on Cobalt, but software that works on teh T3 may still need an update. If P1 is looking ahead and does this now, it creates less "new OS aggrivation" for all of us.

Final comment, if you do decide not to go T5, think of things like this: with the T3 you have to reserve a pocket on trips for a power sled; the T5 can give you nearly double the life (if you are really generous) and you really can run it to 0% and not lose info. That alone should make for a better experience. I wish that I could go for a T5, but it just isnt happening right now ($$$). If I could, the battery life and extra space clinches it for me. I already have a 256MB SD card, double that with the really important stuff on the card, and the other not so important things in INTERNAL wuold please me.

[Wollombi]

All good points, as usual, D-Roc.

Thanks

[Antoine]

No problem, now if you find an extra T5 in your purchase, "mother may I?" :)

[Lance]

No problem, now if you find an extra T5 in your purchase, "mother may I?" :)Hey, Antoine. So you have a TE, now? Congrats!

Sincerely,
Lance

[Antoine]

Yes, thanks to my wonderful fiance and a nice deal the Friday after Thanksgiving. I am still ancy as ever for a T5, but I am happy with a TE and think that it would have been a better buy than the Z71 that I had. I only have to find a way to extend the battry life more than a day and I will be pleased even moreso.

If I do get a T5, then I will give this to my ladi.

[treffmeister]

Wollombi, the Sony Clie NR70V had much more innovation that the HE330! What did the 330 have? 320x240 screen (only palm to have this, so supported apps were few), VG area, 2 slots. NR70V: thumbboard, flip&twist, Sony's jog dial, 320x480 (still the standard today), camera (the first on a PDA ever), voice recorder, hold switch, fast CPU et cetera.
The HanndEra 330 was a great device, but it was not quite the most innovative.

[jjesusfreak01]

As far as Graffiti and cradles go, Palm dumped Graffiti because of copyright issues with Xerox. They saw everyone fixing it to work, and couldnt risk being sued. Its the gunmaker being sued for the moddable gun issue. As for the cradle, I have a TH-55, and guess what, no cradle. I thought it would be pretty cool to just be able to carry a small dongle and some cords, but the cords go the way of the laptop cord. They stop charging correctly, and you end up having to contort the cord into weird positions to get it to charge. I now miss the cradle, as I realize I cannot use the clie plugged in without damaging the cord. If im not mistaken, the T5 doesnt need the dongle for USB? I wish I could just plug the power cord or the usb in to the clie. And Sony was so close, having the drive mode that only needs a small driver. Why Sony, Why? Why have you gone? You hear people say the TH-55 will be their last PDA. Because Sony abandoned us, and Palm doesnt know how to make a decent handheld. Imagine and os6 TH-55, with vga screen, 3x current memory, bluetooth and wifi, and a 2000 mah battery. It would be the end of palm.

[Wollombi]

Wollombi, the Sony Clie NR70V had much more innovation that the HE330! What did the 330 have? 320x240 screen (only palm to have this, so supported apps were few), VG area, 2 slots. NR70V: thumbboard, flip&twist, Sony's jog dial, 320x480 (still the standard today), camera (the first on a PDA ever), voice recorder, hold switch, fast CPU et cetera.
The HanndEra 330 was a great device, but it was not quite the most innovative.
Not quite.

The HE330 was the *first* to market with VG, and they implemented it well. They chose 240x320, which I didn't like as well, but it was still higher res than 98% of the PalmOS devices out there, and matched anything PPC had to offer at the time (Sonly was just starting 320x320 on some models). In addition, the power options were the best and have yet to be completely matched by anyone...removable LIon battery, the ability to use standard alkaline or rechargable batteries, recharge via cable or on cradle, fold away charge cord that packs nicely in a travel bag. It had a jog dial that was implemented nicely, and a voice recorder that would play standard .wav files off of the card, and with a freeware hack, even use those as alarms. It still has the LOUDEST alarms to date. All this long before Sonly's bizarre "twist, flip, and drop because it's so huge and awkward" design. Handera was way ahead of Sonly, and they used industry standard memory cards (CF AND SD) instead of Sonly's proprietary Memory Sticks, which were a step above garbage and twice as slow in those days. Also it was the first PalmOS (and I believe even PPC) to sport dual card slots, with the ability to use CF and/or SD.

Sonly is innovative, but they try to lock you down to things you don't want, and have designs that are less than ergonomic or even usable for that matter. I did have a T615 because I wanted color in a slim form factor, and Handera wasn't producing color units...sadly. The MemSchtick killed it for me in less than 6 months.

The TH-55 looks and feels good in the hand, if only it wasn't tethered to Memory Sticks. I have a 1GB SD card that cost me less than any MemStick Pro, and is faster to boot.


Anyway, back on topic. I'm going to contact the store that has my first T3 and check the status. I can still exchange/upgrade the second T3 as well, giving my wife and I identical units for the first time since we were both on Palm IIIxe's. Wouldn't that be nice.

[Gekko]

Please - Please get the T5. My prediction? PAIN!

[Wollombi]

Please - Please get the T5. My prediction? PAIN!

Gekko, I just knew you'd show up sooner or later! =) Thanks for not letting me down...

Seriously, though, I've had my misgivings on it due to some people's early experiences, but I'm seeing more and more folks that are doing fine. Believe me I have little patience for something that doesn't work as advertised, especially when it is expensive. The upshot is that it may not cost me anything. I may pay a little bit and exchange T3 #2 for one as well, if it works out, and then my wife and I will have the same PDA. This seems trivial until you try putting the T3 PIMs on a Zire71. =P I'd be spending on a new PDA for her anyway since hers is finally giving up. They just aren't as durable as they used to be.

What the heck. I've got two weeks to heavily use it and find any problems. I can always return the thing.

[fssia]

Just wondering now that I too have a T|E: why T|E doesn't have ROM ID like in Clies? Is this true for all PalmOne devices?

Will there be a T|E2 sometime soon?

[The Palmster]

...Palm dumped Graffiti because of copyright issues with Xerox. They saw everyone fixing it to work, and couldnt risk being sued...

I know that the lawsuit by Xerox was the reason for dumping Graffiti 1 in the first place but Palm won the lawsuit! Didn't they? And so...why not bring it back?

[Wollombi]

BackupMan v1.52b5 has been released as a public beta in order to deal with several of the most common problems with the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650. The only outstanding issues at this point are as follows:

* Out of memory error during Backup/Restore operation (Dm 0201): This error is caused by a bug in the Treo 650/Tungsten T5 that 3rd party developers cannot work around. Essentially, the more data you read/write from the NVFS system on the device, the more likely you are to see this problem. This problem also can show up as a random reset (Treo 650) or Fatal Exception (Tungsten T5).

Power users with nearly full memory are likely to experience this often, users with fewer applications and less data will experience it much less frequently.

We are hopeful that palmOne will fix this problem in the near future, and we will continue to update this website with further information as it becomes available.


This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. I need to be able to rely on a backup program 100% of the time. Even 95% is not good enough.

I was nearly set to exchange T3 #2 and get a T5 instead, but now I'm second guessing that decision.

[Wollombi]

Is anybody using the latest BackupMan on the T5? How is it working for you? Are you getting the errors described above? How full is your 55MB of memory? Does it just back up the 55MB section, or does it back up the other 160MB as well, and is there a choice between doing one or the other (or both)?

Thanks,

[Gekko]

My prediction? MORE PAIN!

[Wollombi]

My prediction? MORE PAIN!
Maybe. Others have had more pleasant experiences, or I wouldn't even be looking in its direction.

You're humorous at the moment, but I already know your viewpoint on it. Please stop spiking the thread and let others comment on their experiences with it.

Thanks,

[The Palmster]

Is anybody using the latest BackupMan on the T5? How is it working for you? Are you getting the errors described above? How full is your 55MB of memory? Does it just back up the 55MB section, or does it back up the other 160MB as well, and is there a choice between doing one or the other (or both)?

Thanks,

I think it only backs-up the internal memory not the built-in memory card (does that make sense?)

Anyways, it's not working on the T5. I get a fatal error. Also tried TealBackup and that one is not working properly either. No errors but the backup file seems incomplete, i.e. doesn't backup any of my SplashWallet databases. E-mailed TealPoint's support but no response yet.

Backing up is definitely a problem on the T5. Thankfully, though, I've yet to need it notwithstanding all the experimenting I've been doing with 3rd party applications. Dare I say that a backup program is no longer essential? Hmmm...too early still to make that statement.

[oz-nom]

I've been using my T5 for 2 months and love it. Yes, there were some initial hiccups with the upgrade, and some apps needed to be upgraded to work on the T5, but overall these were minor issues. I have not had any of the major problems described by a few others.

The battery life is awesome. I think the lowest I have run the battery is around 20%, and that took some effort. It easily gets through a day (or two, sometimes more) of "regular" use.

And the memory configuration is quite useful. Basically, I use the internal "card" for pics, apps, etc that are important & I need access to at all times, and the external card for music and other "stuff" that I don't need all the time - that way if I need to take the card out (say to use a wi-fi card, fingers crossed for x-mas) I'm not missing anything crucial. And it leaves the internal memory free for more apps, etc.

I have heard people describe a lag when switching apps, I have this with only one app (LifeBalance - one of my "must haves"). It causes a delay of about 4 seconds when switching (I presume this is related to memory transfer). This is a significant time delay, BUT it does not occur with ANY other apps.

I looked at the T3 and held off buying it for a range of factors (slider, memory, battery life). The only things, in my opinion, that the T3 has over T5 is vibrating alarm and voice recorder, but these are desirable and not necessary. T5 has memory, battery life, drive mode, internal "card" all in its favour. Speed difference seems to be negligible.

In short, I highly recommend the T5.

Cheers,
Tim

[Wollombi]

Well, thus far the experience has been sorely lacking. I picked one up Thursday night and have been putting it through rigorous paces, but nothing my T3 before it couldn't handle. As I said, I am currently less than impressed, and I have not had the good fortune that Lance has had.

Here are some of my findings:

- Autolock on a preset delay (prefs, security,Auto Lock) either doesn't work at all, or when it does work, the T5 refuses to power up afterward without a soft reset. This is a built-in feature that isn't working here, folks. It worked fine on my T3. Don't even think about using encryption. I had relatively bad results. File corruption requiring me to replace files that were supposed to be encrypted with non-corrupt copies. Bad news, this is a con

- BackupMan still doesn't work. I almost always get the error listed above, unless I do a "warm reset", which doesn't load any high-level functions. Then I can get a backup job to complete, but it won't restore the files correctly. I often get errors such as "Error restoring npadDB.pdb", or for some other file such as the Contacts database or Calendar database. If a program cannot do it's basic functions reliably, then it is of no use to me. I currently cannot recommend this program on the T5. On the T3 an prior units, it works flawlessly, leading me to believe the claims of the developer that the problem is a bug in the T5's OS. Currently I know of no backup program that works on this thing. Con

- The unit resets after nearly every hotsync. Bad PDA...go to your room. Con

- Battery life IS better than the T3, but not as exceptional as indicated on this board by a number of people. Still, better batter is better battery, and I'll consider this a Pro.

- The finish is already "scarred" by the pleather flip cover. The stitches in the thing have worn the finish where they come into contact with the PDA's case. This thing is only 4 days old! Con.

- Stylus is great. Pro.

- Screen is beautiful. Pro.

- ZLauncher had to be updated to v.5 to work. I consider this neither pro nor con, but I do hate having to spend MORE money on software I already had, just so it will work on an already expensive new PDA.

- My cost for T5, $360.00, including tax. Definite Pro. =P

- Due to the AutoLock "feature", I cannot rely on this for alarms at the moment. Huge Con.

- Unlike Palmster above, I get slow transitions between many different applications. This is worse than Windows 3.11. P1 obviously has some work to do to make this memory architecture into a desireable feature. It's so far livable, but how long will I be able to be patient with it given the other issues? I want the instant access to data I have with other units. Con, for now. We'll see if P1 can get competent on this.

- I like being able to take pictures and and make them the background in the default PalmOS launcher, and the ability to fade it so that icons and their labels are still legible. A nice touch, and a Pro.


I'm sure there's more, but I haven't been writing it all down as I go. Currently I'm going to take this thing back and exchange it for another one to see if maybe there are some issues with this particular unit. BTW, the update was already in ROM, so that is not an issue. It reported a date of Sat. 10/16/2004 2:45p.

We'll see how the next unit fares before pronouncing sentence on this allegedly vile offender.

[Gekko]

>"Currently I'm going to take this thing back and exchange it for another one to see if maybe there are some issues with this particular unit."

My Prediction? MORE PAIN.

[Antoine]

Something occured to me when realing a few of the latest posts today, I honestly think that I would not mind some of the issues that some of you are having with the T5. Granted, programs that do not work are a nag, especially when they are programs you rely on often and have basically answered your need for a PDA. I do find the number of issues to be interesting, though not terribly so, given all the ouchies people had when going to teh T3.

For those that have had some pain in the upgrade/sidegrade process, not to say that you deserve it, but there is something to be said for upgrading first and being the ones to find the bugs first. I cannot say that I thank you, but I can say that you have truely kept palmOne and PalmSource on their toes for future releases.

That backupMan issue is quite interesting to me as well. Not so much because I use it, I still use the old free version of BackupBuddyVFS, but becasuse it does speak to some program "breakage" that has happened. For some reason, I think that this was designed to be upgraded to Cobalt and the reason for the bugs may have been becaue of the need to rush a product to release so that if/when there was a Cobalt upgrade, this would be one model in which it worked very well.

Overall, I have to thank all of you who keep extoling the virtues and miscues of the T5. It is helping me to be a better purveyor of the handheld landscape, and at the same time not to take my working TE too lightly. I have had to deal with program instability in the recent past and think that if developers and palmOne can fix it, then things will work out fine, just as they did with the T3. Shalom.

[Wollombi]

Something occured to me when realing a few of the latest posts today, I honestly think that I would not mind some of the issues that some of you are having with the T5. Granted, programs that do not work are a nag, especially when they are programs you rely on often and have basically answered your need for a PDA. I do find the number of issues to be interesting, though not terribly so, given all the ouchies people had when going to teh T3.

For those that have had some pain in the upgrade/sidegrade process, not to say that you deserve it, but there is something to be said for upgrading first and being the ones to find the bugs first. I cannot say that I thank you, but I can say that you have truely kept palmOne and PalmSource on their toes for future releases.

That backupMan issue is quite interesting to me as well. Not so much because I use it, I still use the old free version of BackupBuddyVFS, but becasuse it does speak to some program "breakage" that has happened. For some reason, I think that this was designed to be upgraded to Cobalt and the reason for the bugs may have been becaue of the need to rush a product to release so that if/when there was a Cobalt upgrade, this would be one model in which it worked very well.

Overall, I have to thank all of you who keep extoling the virtues and miscues of the T5. It is helping me to be a better purveyor of the handheld landscape, and at the same time not to take my working TE too lightly. I have had to deal with program instability in the recent past and think that if developers and palmOne can fix it, then things will work out fine, just as they did with the T3. Shalom.


droC,

I think for the most part you are right on, but I must say that my T3 transition was much less of a hassle, even thought I passed on using my SD card much until the T3 update.

One of the big issues for me is not so much the presence of problems (although they shouldn't be there in a retail device), but the fact that they are still there and the unit still costs $400.00. That's a high premium to pay for a device that doesn't work nearly as well as its "less capable" siblings. Think about it. PalmOne has yet to release a recent "high end" model that isn't riddled with bugs and problems. The basic Zires, meanwhile, chug along with few or no problems. Remember when these things came out of the box and just worked? Yes, Palm was slower to release units then, but I think that time paid off in testing/fixing prior to the unit hitting retail shelves. Handera was also very much like this and guess what? Few if any bugs in their devices. I would easily be willing to have a one year to 18-month cycle between models if it meant that the shiny new PDA I paid a bundle for worked as it should out of the box, without headaches, acrobatics, and gymnastics. It used to be this way, and if P1 wants to stay in business and compete with Dell, HP, et all, they need to go back to that. A fast release cycle a la Sonly isn't the answer. A WORKING unit in a relatively timely fashion is. Who buys a new PDA in 6 months anyway? The only reason I went from T1 to T2 to T3 was due to faulty units, and I had a replacement plan available. Otherwise, I would still be on a T1 and looking to update, two years after purchasing my original T1. I don't think I'm that unusual, except I may actually buy MORE OFTEN than the average consumer.

As you said, I think it will all turn out fine eventually, but how long will it take p1 this time?

[Vidge]

I have to agree that Palm needs to slow down the release cycle (maybe back to the once a year we had in the old days) and release units only after they have been thoroughly tested. In addition Palm needs to fix the existing product line so that they work reliably. Personally, I'm tired of fighting the issues on my T3 and likely will relegate it to what my Pilot 5000 was - an easy way to carry my calendar and address book. And leave the heavy lifting to my new Sony U750 P. ;)

[Wollombi]

... And leave the heavy lifting to my new Sony U750 P. ;)

Hmm...doing people's taxes has been good to you!!

[Antoine]

In one way I agree with you Vidge, they do need better quality control in all of their models. Much more though testing would go a long way in making harder (I resist using the term "power") users happier.

On the other hand, I think that they need one more release cycle, and ramp up development such that each third run, a product has a chance for a signifiant enough revision that it does not hinder company perception. Granted, right now, palmOne has a heck of a nice model announce/release in March/April and Oct/Nov. To change that to add a mid year release in July/Aug for that back to school time could give that middle time as a great time for bug fixes of models from the Fall release. Models from the spring release would then be updated/refreshed/price lowered if ok in the Oct/Nov release time. Of course, I am operating in the assumption that palmOne is/has addressed quality issues (with the exception of some software and hardware issues that only end users will likely experience after a determined 2-4 month usage pattern).

I would then also change the policy of releasing models then doing a gradual recall (re: Zire72 and the paint issue). To show good faith and have everyone return their devices at once would go well for palmOne's customer relations.

If I worked for palmOne (tis would be a good Christmas wish to have), the I would like to be in the area of product implementation and customer relations. Though fan sites are not the best diagram for most user's issues, they do provide a means to assess a product's ability to meet the intended markets. If a product is good but has issues, like the T5, then it needs to be re-organized into a different perception as soon as possible. Using that nifty TE TV ad (triple word score :D), I would do the same kind of ad with the T5 and then emphasize everything but the price. That gets people in teh door and garners enough sales to move the product down the price line and become a mainstream item (much like the V/Vx did). Then making patches and bug fixes becomes an issue of company perception and customer satisfaction. Hence, people will buy not just because of a great product, but good service and support. And silly me thinks that it can take one year for this all to happen :) - aint I just so pushy.

[Antoine]

Hmm...doing people's taxes has been good to you!!

Did you see the pics next to his PDAs, Vidge doesnt need a PDA any more ;)

[Wollombi]

>"Currently I'm going to take this thing back and exchange it for another one to see if maybe there are some issues with this particular unit."

My Prediction? MORE PAIN.


Update: I exchanged the faulty T5 last night for a new one. I had to perform the update on this one, loaded all of my core apps/games that I use most, and so far have had no issues.

The auto lock is now working as it should. If this changes I will post an update on that.

I am currently not using the flip cover for fear of damaging the finish. For now I'm opting to keep it in my pocket with the screen facing inward towards my body. This is about equivalent protection to what the flip cover would offer anyway.

I think I may have accidentally restored some preference files from my T3, as my apps are running more smoothly and not exhibiting some of the minor hiccups as before. I don't think this is why the auto lock feature failed to work, however.

PalmOne has released an update for backup cards, but this doesn't seem to address any of the issues with software applications like BackupMan or BackupBuddyVFS.

[The Palmster]

PalmOne has released an update for backup cards, but this doesn't seem to address any of the issues with software applications like BackupMan or BackupBuddyVFS.

What are you talking about here? Are you referring to the original T5 patch or has a new one been released? I don't see any new patch on the PalmOne site. Do you have a link?

[Wollombi]

What are you talking about here? Are you referring to the original T5 patch or has a new one been released? I don't see any new patch on the PalmOne site. Do you have a link?

It's a patch that was released yesterday, but it only addresses two physical cards from MDM, and the Palm 64MB backup card to make them compatible with the T5 and Treo 650. Since it is working with compatibility issues of the NVFS on these units, I had some hope that it would address the issues with BackupMan, BBVFS, and other backup applications. That doesn't appear to be the case, however.

http://www.palmone.com/us/support/downloads/64mb_backup_other.html


Still no fix for those of us using standard SD and a robust backup application... :mad:

[Wollombi]

My Prediction? MORE PAIN.

Well, today has been for all intents and purposes....PAINLESS!! This defies even my expectations (though not hopes).

I've had no resets today. I still have to add some of my less used applications, but I won't have time to do that this week at any rate. If this sees me though the next couple days, the T3 is going back, and the T5 will stay. I just like the form factor better, and some of the enhancements in the launcher are a nice touch. Bluechat works on it, so my wife and I can "pass notes" when talking out loud or whispering is inappropriate. :p

Keeping my fingers crossed, but today has been a much better experience. BTW, ZLauncher 5 is on sale right now.

Hmm...is it premature to start looking at a permanent case? I already have a temporary screen protector solution. All I need now is a fix for the backup programs. In the meantime I'm using a carefully orchestrated workaround to protect the important stuff.

[Vidge]

Hmm...doing people's taxes has been good to you!!
Well, let's just say 2004 has been a pretty good year :D (and I do move than taxes, BTW ;) )

[Vidge]

Did you see the pics next to his PDAs, Vidge doesnt need a PDA any more ;)
Not everybody has seen those pics. (For those who haven't check them out here (http://www.dailygadget.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4355))

And d-roc, don't you know I'm a she, not a he? :p

[Antoine]

And d-roc, don't you know I'm a she, not a he?
You wouldnt believe me if I told you that I forgot, right :ashamed smile:?

That is really embarrassing :rolleyes:
Its just the wrong time of year to be making that kind of mistake :rolleyes:

[Wollombi]

Well, here's another update. ZLauncher 5.10.3 works 99.9% from what I can tell so far, but if you set a password to lock a tab, leave that tab, and then later attempt to go back to that tab, it locks up the Palm. No error messages, it just becomes unresponsive except for the power button. The only way I've found to get control back is to soft reset it, then delete the file (ZL_CategoriesDB) that controls the tab preferences (you can't even get to the preferences of that tab after the password is set). Restoration has been simple for me because I am backing that file up on a regular basis. Occasionally it makes me reassign my background picture, but not always.

I have been able to reproduce this consistently on both T5 units I had.

I also came across a hotsync issue where the T5 would crash/reset after hotsync if ZLauncher was the default launcher. Last night was the first time I've come across it, and I'm not yet able to state that I can reliably reproduce this issue. More testing tonight.

Both issues may stem from the fact that I am using the trial version until I get my upgrade code. Once registered, I will check for these issues again.

The tab password issue is not of major concern to me, but couple that with the encryption problems I had on the last unit, and it speaks of a lack of security on this unit for those who need it. Fortunately, SecureIt still works, and I can keep my sensitive data encrypted in that application. I haven't tried encryption on the new unit yet.

[Wollombi]

Another update:

Setting the prefs so that data is encrypted on locking the PDA seems to break/disable the autolock feature. Can any other T5 owners try to reproduce this? I have a password assigned, a quick unlock combination assigned, Auto Lock set to 90 minutes, and Hide private records. Under options, I had encryption set for the Conatacts, Memos, Notes, and Tasks databases only, with RC4 encryption. Intrusion Protection is set to disabled.

I think the fact that encrypting these records is so slow may have part to do with why it interferes with the Auto Lock feature. It's just speculation though.