TJ-37 camera blows away NX80V

[Noodles Hovar]

I was in Staples playing with the PDAs and I took a pic of a price tag with the TJ-37. Then I took My NX80V out of my pocket and took the same shot. The TJ-37 was very clean and my NX80V pic was a blue milky mess by comparison. I changed the white balance settings but to no avail.

I've always found the pictures to be kind of washed out. Any tips?

What's the pixel count on the TJ-37?

[clicclic]

We want examples! I guess I'll go look for some...

bored, lazy, goofing-off employee clicclic

[cliefan7]

I was in Staples playing with the PDAs and I took a pic of a price tag with the TJ-37. Then I took My NX80V out of my pocket and took the same shot. The TJ-37 was very clean and my NX80V pic was a blue milky mess by comparison. I changed the white balance settings but to no avail.

I've always found the pictures to be kind of washed out. Any tips?

What's the pixel count on the TJ-37?
I think its 360K

[Mauritus]

I think at times NX80 really has issues for taking shots, specially with moving objects.

no, its not that TJ37 has better camera (310k against 1.3Mpix)

but at times having just a little more practice with your NX can be the key for exelent photos :p

God Bless

[Noodles Hovar]

I've been practicing for some time. I wonder if there's gunk on my lens . . .

[Noodles Hovar]

Here's an example of the best I can get:



See what I mean by "milky"?

[Mauritus]

mmm..... let me see what pictures i have that ejemplyfy what i am try to say by moving objects.... for instance... my dog Sparky.....


damn i can get them to get attached, :( it says they are too large.
please give you mail to send you the pictures that show how neat the camera can be..

[arizona cactus]

noodles, in my opinion, your picture is not as clear as it could be. perhaps your nx has some issue.

[OcellNuri]

Your lense may be a bit dirty, but lighting really has a lot to do with how well the NX performs. Make sure your ND Filter is off, so you won't be restricting light from entering the lense when you're not in direct sunlight.

Here's a picture taken in my bathroom, an attempt to duplicate your lighting. I've also attached a photo (computer screens) that shows the blurriness I get with a lot of photos where lighting isn't optimal. And finaly, a picture showing the problem with moving objects in low light conditions (a problem all cameras will have to a degree).

[aik]

My NX80V has the same "problem" while taking pictures...
Except if the lighting is perfect, etc.

I m going to test it with smaller size in taking pictures....

Alexandros from Greece :eek:

[Noodles Hovar]

Ocell-

1) Your need to get a cat for your sink

2) Thanks for the helpful pictures. Looks like about the same performance I'm getting.

Your last picture is obviously blurred. I have noticed that the NX80 actually takes the picture AFTER the shutter noise because I often lower my arms and blur the shot thinking I'm all done.

Nice computing rig.

[intellidryad]

Here's an example of the best I can get:



See what I mean by "milky"?

Strange, looks worse then what I could get from my NX73, which is only 31k pixels
Maybe you've got a dirty lens, or something wrong with your CCD?

[bromwich]

The problem might be that you are shooting in poor light conditions, in which case the NX80 defaults to a slower shutter speed, so any movement then blurs the image.

[greenecology]

Hello all. Wandered over here from the TJ forum. Interesting discussion.

The quality of the picture will depend upon a number of factors, none of which is really in a PDA's favor.

Pixel count. I don't have the specifications in front of me, but if the posted 1.3m vs 310k is correct the NX will have a distinct advantage, especially for larger pictures. The TJ's quality is adequate for basic picture sharing work when set for small size. When set for 640x480, the quality is horrible unless the resulting photo is shrunk in a viewer/editor.

Objective lens size. The lens on the TJ is very small. This will result in high f stop (aperture opening) requirements. The practical result is that the camera is horrible in low light because the shutter speed has to slow down as the light level drops and the aperture cannot open further to compensate. For all I know the aperture is fixed. The small size also lends itself to image distortion at the edges/corners.

Objective lens material & coating. I doubt either has a very high quality lens. From the glare performance I've seen with my TJ37 I'm guessing there's a performance coating, but the lens is easily glared out.

Fixed focus. Always a compromise between engineered simplicity and performance.

The PDA's performance moving the image data around, compressing it into a jpg for storage (JPG is a lossy compression method), and pushing it out to the file system is a factor. The TJ seems to handle this fine, though.

I have to admit that I have no grand expectations of the TJ camera performance. I will be intereted in hearing how you think the NX and TJ cameras compare.

[Noodles Hovar]

Thanks for bringing some good science to the table, greenecology!

Any chance we can see your bathroom sink from your TJ-37?

[OcellNuri]

Ocell-

1) Your need to get a cat for your sink

2) Thanks for the helpful pictures. Looks like about the same performance I'm getting.

Your last picture is obviously blurred. I have noticed that the NX80 actually takes the picture AFTER the shutter noise because I often lower my arms and blur the shot thinking I'm all done.

Nice computing rig.

1) I sure do!

2) No problem. You can also have fun with the blur... see attachment.

Thanks for the comment on the computer. I was booting into Fedora 2, and all the text streaming on both displays made me feel like I was in a movie. I had to take a picture, although it didn't quite capture it.

[Noodles Hovar]

Ha! You look like a sci-fi movie poster (but nothing personal...)

[GodOwnsAnNX80]

My NX80 camera is pretty milky under any observed conditions. I haven't made any quantative studies yet, but as an amature photographer they are pretty depressing. Maybe I'll fool with it tonight.

[TJ37]

Not really... You probably think so because you were viewing the screen, but when you import it, it doesn't really come close to a 1.3 MP camera. Some examples:

http://www.1src.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/37546

I put up some examples of pictures I took with my TJ37. Enjoy.

[Noodles Hovar]

Thanks TJ37. The larger pics really show the pixel count difference.
It's funny that on screen the TJ-37 was so much clearer!

[TJ37]

Well that's partially because the image hasn't been compressed yet (?) and because the image you are viewing on the screen is less than 320x320 (more like 240x320) and when exported is expanded into a 640x480 res. picture. I've resized the pictures to simulate the TJ37 view, as you can see it becomes much clearer.

[jjesusfreak01]

How in the world did you get your cat in a sink? My cats hate water, know water comes from sinks, and are scared to death of sinks. For comparison, her is a picture of a cat (my cat), and a sink, both taken with the camera on my TH-55.

[Noodles Hovar]

TJ37-

Thanks for the compression angle. I never thought of that.



jjesusfreak01-

I appreciate your contribution of "Cat+Sink". (Maybe Photoshop can get them together :))

Actually I don't do anything go get him in there. He just likes it. The tub, too!

[greenecology]

My sink has no cat, either ;) Plus my wife would kick my behind.

[greenecology]

Attached is a picture taken with my TJ37 at work. I decided not to shoot a sink (sorry). There's writing on the mouse and the mug and the corner of the screen,which are of varying degrees of readability. Overall, this shot is good. The florescent light above my desk didn't glare out the lens. Outside shots for infinity focus are much less clear.

[Noodles Hovar]

Ok. Here's my desk shot. All I did was resize it in Photoshop so 1src would receive it. Milky. Blah.

Here are the settings:

Size: 1280 X 960
Scene: slow shutter
Brightness: 0
White Balance: Auto

I braced my fingers to form a tripod on the desk and held my breath.



I guess sinks are out. Desks are in.

[OcellNuri]

Size: 640x480
Scene: Slow Shutter
Brightness: 0
White Balance: Auto

I do find that taking pictures at 640x480 set on the unit is much quicker, and gives me less blur due to hand motion. I don't know what's causing the milkiness though. It reminds me of a dream sequence in a movie. You ARE awake when you take these pictures right?

[Noodles Hovar]

>>You ARE awake when you take these pictures right?

Don't you see the coffee cup in the picture?

This is a fun conversation. Reminds me of the good old days at Cliesource . . .

[greenecology]

Good to see alumni mugs on desks :D

Impressive to hear your NX does large resolution pics. The shot I posted from my TJ is 320 x 240. That's the best resolution for the meager 310K pixels.

I was at a middle school band concert the other night. I was traveling w/o my usual pocket snapshot camera (Nikon Coolpix 2500). I tried to get a shot from the balcony of the lit stage with the TJ and it just couldn't handle the brightness no matter what I did overriding the settings. I backed down the aperture control (-2 is the min I think) and tried the 2 different indoor settings. I couldn't get a good pic. Is the NX any better at these situations?

[OcellNuri]

>>You ARE awake when you take these pictures right?

Don't you see the coffee cup in the picture?

This is a fun conversation. Reminds me of the good old days at Cliesource . . .

Oh boy... the old days of Cliesource... :)


^ Funny you mention the mugs, I almost grabbed my NCSU mug from the kitchen downstairs before I took the picture... though I'm a few years from being an alumni.

[Noodles Hovar]

greenecology-

A concert would be impossible with the NX - or any PDA camera for that matter. You'd need to crop to get any details and your subjects would end up looking like Lego people.
I have a 5 megapixel Sony and shooting a concert is still a challenge.

Ocell - Re: Alumni mug-I never went to that college. It was in the break room cabinet. I always grab the darkest color mug to keep the coffee warm just a little longer.

[greenecology]

A concert would be impossible with the NX - or any PDA camera for that matter. You'd need to crop to get any details and your subjects would end up looking like Lego people.

Absolutely right re detail. I expected little Lego people (at best) but would have settled for little dots that weren't washed out.

My attempt was to compensate for the theatre lighting. The problem was a spotlit subject. With a film camera shooting the scene normal to wide, I'd underexpose from the light meter reading a stop or two using the exposure control. Shooting full viewfinder, I might adjust a bit, but the reading should be more acccurate.

On the TJ, the controls are there to try the same thing, but the resulting shots were nasty. I'm guessing that there isn't the aperture control to handle brightly lit subjects. As I mentioned in a n earlier note, I'm not even sure there's aperture control. Could just be a shutter and some video processing.

But it was a spur of the moment shot and all I had was the TJ.

[Noodles Hovar]

I've noticed that in any scene with a single bright source of light (soptlight, window, lamp, etc) the light source flares up out of control.

Maybe we're just expecting too much from the current technology.

I don't ask my camera to play a decent game of Bejewelled 2 . . .

[Pdaman]

I think that reason is that tj has better/faster processor to take clearer pictures than nx80v...

However my zire 71 takes much worse pictures than nx80v when we are talking about how clear is the picture not resolution...

I was also really amazed when i did saw th55 camera quality when was using zire 71, difference between th55 and zire 71 camera is very big...

[Edlin]

I wont take a picture of my sink - too scarey :/

When I used a freinds Zire and took pictures, I noticed it couldnt take pictures of computer screen very well.

I havent noticed any milkness on the NX80 pictures...
My samples are http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=741890&postcount=9

:D

[Noodles Hovar]

It turns out the problem was a dirty lens after all!

I had tried to clean the lens a while back with a q-tip, but the tiny lens was so recessed I must have missed it. I did not want to send liquid deep into the camera.

But last night I gave the ol' lens a good swirly with rubbing alcohol and then did a dry off with the other end of the q-tip.

So it was all for nothing...but look at all the fun we had!

[OcellNuri]

Wow... dramatic difference. I may give mine a quick cleaning just to make sure I'm not missing any photogenic potential.

Glad to see it was a cheap fix for you.

[Edlin]

So nice to see a cheap fix working :D

[cliemia]

Wow, the alcohol cleaned the cat right out of there! :)

[Noodles Hovar]

...and it was some trick getting him off the q-tip!!!