vz90 and apple ipod photo 60GB

[SonyStyle]

if i had two choices to buy a vz90 or ipod photo 60GB, i would buy the vz90. i think the price for that ipod photo is more insane than the vz90

[JAmerican]

What's the purpose of getting a 60GB music player? The only way to fill that thing is by pirating music or having a hell load of CDs. I would keep that money and wait for Sony's next device. Probably buy a 1GB MS while I'm waiting.

JAmerican

[treffmeister]

Ipod Sucks!! Do Not Get The Ipod! It Has No Features, Is Difficult To Use, Not User-friendly, And The Competition Leaves It In The Dust!

[lmame]

Wel, the purpose is absolutly not the same:

The Ipod is a MP3 player with a hard disk which can display photos on a little screen as ultimate gadget (next version of Ipod makes coffee and cleans your teeth in option)...
The VZ90 can do MP3, but place is limited by CF and MS port (1 GB maximum for each, it is not true for CF as it can have more than 2GB but...) and can do a LOT more, like some PDA stuff and has a great display for pictures and films...
So everything depends on if you want a MP3 player with a lot of place on it or not... If it's just MP3 and no PDA / video function, you can have better MP3 players and far less expensive than the Ipod (Iriver, some Archos and so on...)...


For the fun, just a little experience I had recently on a french forum:
A French weirdo on a french forum tries to flame down the Psp comparing it (size / weight) to a PDA and his major argument is that you can not play PSX and PS2 games on PSP :eek:
Well there are other things he says of course, but I guess you see the guy style...
I guess there are dumb people everywhere :D

[SonyStyle]

actually, the ipod is really easy to use and very intuitive. but i dont think the ipod photo is worth that much.

[lmame]

actually, the ipod is really easy to use and very intuitive. but i dont think the ipod photo is worth that much.

Don't get me wrong, I got an Ipod, and what I can say is that Ipod is not worth its price...

[treffmeister]

Imame: Excusez-moi, I was not comparing the ipod in any way to the VZ90. That pretty much ruins your argument. I was just making the note that it sucks, and it is sad to see all these people wasting their money. I can go into intrinsic detail with the reasons it sucks if you so wish.

SonyStyle, the ipod is by no means "easy to use and very intuitive". The desktop software - itunes - is a nightmare. Let's assume, first, that all your current tracks are in conformity with Apple's detest of good quality music formats. If you ripped your tracks with Windows Media Player, as so many do, then you are in trouble at the best of times, as converting one format to another is a very bad thing, resulting in large quality loss. However, if you are an audiophile such as myself, and ripped into the many better formats that blow Apple out of the water - .ogg (which is open source, why does Apple not use it?), .mpc, .flac, to name but a few - you are up the proverbial creek.
Even so, itunes continues to wreak administerial mayhem. What if you are running out of hard drive space on your computer? If you delete the songs on a computer, it will delete them from the ipod also! Even if this is possible to change (anyone?) what happens if you have a problem with your computer - as did my friend - and need a reformat? You would not have the warning to turn sync off, and say bye to all your tracks! He is now re-ripping his 300-odd CDs. User friendly? I think not.
The final point is that of sharing. With CDs, other hard drive music players, etc., it is possible to share the tracks on these among multiple computers - a friend's perhaps, or maybe even another computer of your own. Without expensive 3rd-party software, again with the ipod you are up the creek without a paddle.
Let alone the fact it is difficult to get the ipod to act as a hard drive! Other players: take out of box, plug in to usb and charger, appears as hdd, ctrl+c, ctrl+v, done!

[SonyStyle]

i really don't find anything troublesome using itunes, maybe i havent encountered any problems as u did.

[JAmerican]

Everyone at my school has an iPod and once I wip out my camera/web browser/MP3 player/video player/... you get the picture, they say its sick and ask the price. Then ask how much memory I have and the I bash the iPod into the dirt :).

Talking about iPods, I was on the train today and was in the front car. Its like a tech world out there. Anyway, I saw two people with iPods (white/silver) then I saw a girl wip out a Sidekick II then I saw a guy take out a Blackberry PDA phone. I was listening to music on my UX and took off the EB40 to make it look slim :), then I rotated the screen and played with it. Once I was reaching the last stop, I stood up and watched a music video and the Blackberry user was looking at my device :). It feels good to show off.
LOL!!!

JAmerican

[lmame]

Imame: Excusez-moi, I was not comparing the ipod in any way to the VZ90. That pretty much ruins your argument. I was just making the note that it sucks, and it is sad to see all these people wasting their money. I can go into intrinsic detail with the reasons it sucks if you so wish.

I was not talking to you, but I was talking to SonyStyle, so it pretty much scatters YOUR argument :D
So I was comparing the choice between Ipod and NV90 by the needs of people...

[CliePet]

If considering the iPod photo $60, for ~$80 more I can strongly recommend the Archos AV480.
This gives you a bigger hard drive, bigger screen, similar music & photo features and MOVIES!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002IHP62/102-4161034-0656164?v=glance&s=electronics&n=172282&vi=reviews

Archos AV480 pluses:
+ 80GB drive (compared to 60GB)
+ DIVX/MP4 video recorder and player built-in
+ 3.8" diagonal screen (compared to 2" iPod)
+ Plays WMA protected content (ie. buy tracks for 99cents each from Napster instead of iTunes.com)
+ includes video recording hardware
+ CF slot for moving photos from camera to hard drive
+ Video output
...

Of course the iPod products are more Mac friendly (iTunes, Firewire as well as USB 2.0, etc) and are more trendy.
Not the best value IMHO, but if you have invested in 60GB of iTunes tunes, you can probably afford it ;-)

---
Comparing these produces:
There is no comparison ;->

IMHO: Not to condemn the entire iPod line, but the high-end "iPod photo" is overpriced and you have many other alternatives (better and cheaper)

The Archos line is IMHO the best-of-breed, and a good value (all things considered). There are other movie recorder/players available - so shop around.

---
BTW: Everyone complains about the VZ90 being overpriced.
I agree, but for the money you get an amazing color rich experience you DO NOT GET ANYWHERE ELSE!

The VZ90 is best-of-breed - because there is nothing else in the same category (at least not yet)

[treffmeister]

CliePet - obviously one of the learned few who, like myself, have been able to see through the layers of marketing BS (c'est merde en Française, Imame) and hollow features that is Apple, and found a haven in one of the many alternatives. Firmware is a great example of our choice: Apple has had one, maybe two, firmware upgrades in the past year. In the same period, my iAudio M3 www.iaudio.com has had ~15! (20 total) And while you may be thinking the changes in each update may be small, virtually every one included new features. I can now boast FLAC playback - now 2 players can do that - and Bookmarking support - which is only supported on the Archos range when updated with the _3rd Party!_ firmware Rockbox. The amount of added features is enough to blow one away, and as with CliePet, I reccomend this line.

[JAmerican]

iPods IMHO makes up for lost MacOS sales to Microsoft.

But their mistake is that they are updating their GB too fast. They should at least wait a year or two before releasing another 20 more GB to their devices.
They should get a new marketing team and development and design coordinators who make devices with screens bigger then the dial and in color with video.

The only reason iPods are selling so much is because is simple (in looks) compared to Archos plus its very popular. If Archos had as many commericals as iPod and endorsements, I think everyone would get an Archos. Heck, I'd get one if I didn't already have a phat device :D

JAmerican

[arizona cactus]

i have an ipod mini and a creative tx fm 512. i also have shure e3c headphones. clearly, the ipod has better sound quality. i don't think the ipod is difficult to use, nor do i think their desktop manager is anymore difficult that rio, creative, etc. on the other hand, i don't even use a desktop manager for my creative, i just drag and drop (i lose playlist functionality on the tx as a result).
for those who a) have a lot of music (either on their harddrive or cd's), and who have better than average speakers (to use with their mp3 player), then i think ipod's are great for that purpose. the other reason being the high level of 3rd part accessories available for ipod, which unlike other mp3 players, can be plugged directly into the serial port rather than the 3.5 jack). if you don't have a lot of music, nor better than average speakers, i don't think the average mp3 users needs to spend the money on a hard drive based mp3 player, unless they intent to also carry files on their mp3 player.

while the ipod 60 can view pictures on a small screen, you can't watch movies in the same manner as the vz, nor can you add 3rd party apps such as an enhanced datebook, financial calculator, etc.

the vz is a pda which is expandable in terms of software. the ipod is not. in my .02, there is really no comparison between the two because they are completly different machines. the vz is first and foremost a pda, not a mp3 player. the ipod is first and foremost a mp3 player, not a pda. so to compare the two would be comparing one's best feature against the other's second or third or fourth etc best feature.

ps - i agree that there are certainly more feature rich mp3 players, but from a sound quality, i think the ipod holds it's own, if not better.

[treffmeister]

Arizona Cactus - clearly, you are not an audiophile. The statement, "i have an ipod mini and a creative tx fm 512. i also have shure e3c headphones. clearly, the ipod has better sound quality.", is misfounded. Ignoring the fact it was pulled from your ***, it requires proper sound testing equipment and conditions to determine this - regardless, the Creative is obviously not on the same playing field. (512MB? You probably didn't pay $400 for it)
I have Sony MDR-EX71sl earphones, which are up there among the best of the seal type. I listened with my iAudio M3 and an iPod on the same song. I did a double take, and realised that the reason the M3 sounded light years beyond the ipod was because its full-featured equaliser and DSP were turned on. Upon leveling the playing field in that respect, the M3 still sounded so much better and clearer. There is a reason Apple has not released the Signal/Noise Ratio (SNR) for the ipod.
But I wasn't about to trust my own ears on this one. I reported to the web, where many professional, controlled tests had been done and the ipod had indeed been ousted.
Playlist functionality is childs play on any folder-based player. For example, I use a 3rd-party program - which can handle superior formats like Ogg Vorbis and FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) - to automatically arrange the playlists on my M3, and send new songs from the computer to it in the right folder. As the iAudio's transfer rate is a good deal faster than the ipod's - firewire OR usb2 - it all gets done with rapid speed.

I have a lot of music, and I have a great stereo system. Why does that make the ipod better for me? Because of its supposedly simplistic nature - which is a drawback rather than a "feature" for power users such as myself - the ipod is an instant turnoff in this regard.

I actually laughed out loud when you said "the other reason being the high level of 3rd part accessories available for ipod" - there are two main reasons for this.
Firsly - the ipod does not have this functionality built in - you have to buy accessories. Competitors can already: listen to FM radio, voice record (44KHz, unlike the ipod's 8 or something), plug into cameras (USB OTG), WITHOUT a hugely expensive attachment that brings the word 'rip off' into mind. Lest we forget FM transmitters (already built into the Neuros 2), which are much cheaper for the 3.5mm than ipod's whatever. (Why is the ipod's whatever so much better than the 3.5mm in this regard? It allows the ipod to waste even more power, dismally reducing its battery life!)
Second of the reasons there are so many ipod accessories is simple: Manafacturers have figured out that people who buy the ipod are likely to waste money, and give them a channel to do so. By this I mean, they have not bought the best or cheapest product, just followed the crowd/advertisements into the Apple store. Thus they are unlikely to think that much more of a $50US attachment for something as basic as voice recording - which is default, without a bulky attachment, on all of the ipod's competitors. In fact, to get the ipod up to the default spec level of the iAudio M3, including case, cradle, etc., one has to spend $100's!

You mention using a hard drive as a file storage - another good point of how the ipod is lacking. To enable interoperability as a hard drive, one must go through a long and labourious process on each computer - I'm unsure if itunes is needed, but I know it is nigh on impossible without it. As well, one must disable "features" such as Folder Sync. Of course, you could always buy pricey 3rd-party software!

Read above for my attack on the ipods sound quality.

[SonyStyle]

ipod is running short of supplies stated by yahoo news and cnet!

[treffmeister]

w0rd! Good riddance! The more buyers it stops (Christmas rush comes to mind), the less money is wasted!

[arizona cactus]

i admit i am not an audiophile. my ipod mini sounds good to me, but i am not an expert. i admit it was not cheap, but for lack of a better way of saying it, i can afford it.
my post might have been bad since am not an audiophile, but it was only my .02 regarding the ipod. the good thing is that buyers have many choices.

[treffmeister]

Unfortunately, those choices are not clear for the buyer, as ipod marketing and widespread attachment of the word ipod to all portable music-playing devices by the media, mean it is difficult without a little research to find about the vastly superior opposition.
This is very difficult, as it has been proven that a low number of Americans know about the world outside their borders. The superb brainchildren of international countries go largely unnoticed. Americans want brand names.

[JAmerican]

If the iPod had a USB port like the UX series instead of a cradle port like many other PDAs, as well as the capabilities like the T|T5 Flash Drive, I think the iPod would be worth it. That would allow you to travel with music and GB of data that can be opened up on any computer without a cradle. As I said before, Apple needs a new development team or something.

Also, if you didn't need software to place and listen to music on the iPod like iTunes, then it would be worth it. Right now, my UX is what just described. It has a USB port, I installed Card Export II to make it a flash drive, I can place audio files on my UX without software, just by placing the audio in my PALM/Programs/MSAUDIO folder and that's it. I have audio. I also can go to any computer, use Softick Card Export II and print documents I was typing, as well as watch videos on a PC with Quicktime or listen to music with Windows Media Player. Basically, the iPod has nothing on my device, which makes it way overpriced and somewhat useless. I got my UX for 300, which is about the same price as an iPod and I'm happy with it. Not to sure how happy I'd be with an iPod.

JAmerican

[treffmeister]

Well said.

[clie_wannabe]

........

BTW: Everyone complains about the VZ90 being overpriced.
I agree, but for the money you get an amazing color rich experience you DO NOT GET ANYWHERE ELSE!

The VZ90 is best-of-breed - because there is nothing else in the same category (at least not yet)

it is overpriced - but i got mine from my wife as a birthday present...

all i then did was to use my own money and add a 1GB mem stick!!!

kewl!!!

:D

[froster]

When the ipod came out, i wasn't really excited and I never really bothered to buy one. Recently since I did not have a hard drive mp3 player and I happen to see the U2 ipod in a store, I got one. My first impression wasn't that good and didn't got better. I didn't like the idea that it doesn't have buttons on the side or a volume control wheel or a hold slider. It has no visible screws what I find not good. The shiny case didn't suite my liking either since I don't apreciate most things that are bling bling at first sight. The I tried out the thing and was quite irritated of using the wheel thingie to navigate and control the ipod, i found it very inaccurate. I thought the sound of a dediacted mp3 player would be better than listening mp3s from a PDA. Well, my subjective impression was that the quality of the sound from the ipod was clearly below that of a clie NZ90, using the same headphones. Nex surprise was how fast the battery was empty. My non-scientific conclusion was that I could listen to music at least twice the amount of time on a NZ90 (which has horrible battery life) than on the ipod. Then I tried use the ipod while jogging (since it's small size makes it more practical to carry than my PDA). That lasted about a few minutes before the ipod stopped playing music, I guess jogging is too much movement for the ipod which surprised me since in all the tv ads they show people dancing like they have a frog in their pants while juggling an ipod in their hands like a wild orang utan. The shiny surface got (quite a few) scratches after only a few days of use. I find the ipod one of the worst if not the worst gadget I ever bought.

[froster]

sorry, my mistake, it does have a hold slider

[treffmeister]

gotta laugh at your description of the ads..
I agree with every word you have typed.

[get_fish]

Please help me get a free Apple 60GB Photo iPod and I will help you get a free Apple 60GB Photo iPod. All you have to do is click on this link, sign-up for free, and complete one offer.(Blockbuster is the easiest). If you can complete everything, I will help you get a free Photo iPod.

http://www.freephotoiPods.com/?r=16765121
CLICK ON THIS LINK ABOVE!

[Marly]

I am astonished at you guys who dislike the ipod. The ipod is not built solely as a tool to be used for anything more than listening to your music. It is a statement of style. It is an engineering masterpiece and produces a synergy of form and function that only the germans usualy manage. The click wheel is frankly genious, and the envy of the industry, (as for comments about it's inaccuracy, i fear this is user error rather than a design blunder). The ipod can of course be used as a hdd, (providing you carry the cable with you) which lets face it you have to with 99% of gadgetary anyway. itunes doesn't let you remove your music but only for legal reasons there are a handful of great tools freely downloadable for exactly this purpose, indeed in linux and MacOS you can simply drag and drop files with the right options enabled. Someone said that they couldn't see the screws on the outside!? How is that a negatory point!? The ipod is superbly built, rock solid. True it scratches easily, but it won't break! My friend bought a Rio somethingorother recently, it's already been repaired and replaced so many times that there is enough spares hanging around her flat to supply the entire eastern seaboard.
People who buy this far from waste their money, they don't buy it so that it will keep them organised, telephone another contenant or order a beer automaticaly. They buy this to listen to their well earned, legaly bought cd's and they do so, using the earphones that came along with the unit, the finly crafted ones, the ones tuned for the job! Not the ones that came free with the packet of nestle cereal they bought last week and make the songs sound like they were instrumented entirely on a set of cymbals. I don't have time to rant any further, this is clearly a waste of my time, the artistry is lost on you. But millions of fans cannot be wrong. My girlfriend has an ipod mini and she loves it. Her opinion is the only one that actually matters to me.

[treffmeister]

The ipod is not built solely as a tool to be used for anything more than listening to your music. It is a statement of style.

People who buy this far from waste their money, they don't buy it so that it will keep them organised, telephone another contenant or order a beer automaticaly. They buy this to listen to their well earned, legaly bought cd's and they do so, using the earphones that came along with the unit, the finly crafted ones, the ones tuned for the job!

(note contradiction)
I could rebut every sngle "point" you have "made" here, but I won't waste my time because you haven't even bothered to sign up, and are an iPod fanatic.

[rlc7254]

actually, the ipod is really easy to use and very intuitive. but i dont think the ipod photo is worth that much.

The beauty of the 60gb photo iPod is the storage size of it. There is no larger capacity MP3 player on the market. It is possible to fill it up (and with legal music). I have a 40gb photo, and have it half full of material. I like to listen to old time radio programs, audio books, and a wide variety of music. I find that iTunes is a very easy program to use and master, very intuitive, much easier than any of the others I have seen. The color display on the iPod is nicer than the iPods with the monochrome ones. Overall, the iPod is a great MP3 player, and the Clie is a great PDA.

:D

[treffmeister]

rlc7254, please. I don't mean to personally attack you, but.. well..

http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4767402/
http://audiovisual.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/sbs/122701/11611094.html
http://portableaudio.engadget.com/entry/1375152272872473/
One thing in common: All top results off the Google search "80GB mp3".

There is no larger capacity MP3 player on the market.


Yeap, good one. Obviously your "love" for your iPods has blinded you to the fact that, yes, there ARE other alternatives (nearly all better) out there! To further demonstrate this, you say that your colour screen is better than the grey iPod equivalent. Hello? That's like saying regular faeces look better than diarrhea - they're still both ****! Further, iTunes is the most inefficient, featureless excuse for music management software I have ever seen. However time's up for this rant.

[kris2pe]

Is Ipod's battery life bad? Coz if it is then well it's not worth buying

[treffmeister]

Short answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Yes, it is.

[Skaah]

New iPod mini: 18hrs, not too bad, or is it?

[lmame]

New iPod mini: 18hrs, not too bad, or is it?

I'm not really sure for 18 hours ;)
Anyway, see new Sony MP3 media players, 30 to 45 hours...

[kris2pe]

How long does the battery last in VZ 90?

[SonyStyle]

i herad the vz90 has double the battery life of the th55. the th55 can play music for 24 hours.

[intellidryad]

Actually, I now see the iPod photo as a "cheep mp3 player" since it's cheeper than toshibas and sonys.
Yet, I like the toshibas and sonys better then iPods, but can't afford those more expensive then the iPod photo 30GB. Thus, to minimize the money spent and maximize my pocket space, I decided to just save up for a 2gig CF and use it on my NX. After all, already used to clies, I'd feel that "pure music players" are a little boring.

You certanly can't play "bejeweled" on any of those, can you?

As for "iTunes", I actually drag and drop music from it to my clie. Who says you need an iPod to use iTunes?

[clie_wannabe]

How long does the battery last in VZ 90?

it could go on for about 2 to 3 days of heavy PDA activity - constantly on for about 1 to 2 hours a day for taking down notes during meetings (as well as jotting memos as i move around the office), plus some WiFi here and there during those subway commutes...

sometimes, i would start on a thursday, and still have about 30% charge one-week later, and inspite of heavy PDA activity...