Treo 650 Filesystem Problems

[Joel]

Slashdot is featuring a discussion about the Treo 650. "It turns out PalmOne's new Treo 650 is shipping with a major problem that's causing first adopter users and developers to cancel their orders in droves." [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=656)]

[jjesusfreak01]

Slashdot is featuring a discussion about the Treo 650. "It turns out PalmOne's new Treo 650 is shipping with a major problem that's causing first adopter users and developers to cancel their orders in droves." [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=656)]
There goes palm again with the bad file system implementation. When will they ever learn? When they lose ALL of their customers? At least Palmsource can distance themselves from Palmone's stupidity. Look there, I found an upside to their breakup.

[IsLNdbOi]

The Treo Central Treo 650 forum has been flooded with posts from people comlpaining about this.

[clicclic]

this sounds like a major over-reaction to me. A 512-byte block size is significant on a 23 MB user-accessible RAM space but it's not the end of the world. Also, everyone loves to watch companies crash and burn. I can't wait to get my Treo 650. After living with a Nokia 3650 (3 MB accessible) and an NX70 (12 MB accessible) this will seem like a lot of space.

[IsLNdbOi]

Have you read the threads at the TreoCentral forums? After hotsyncing contact lists to their Treo 650's, people are reporting that the contact list's size grows to megabytes. This is happening with apps. with any database files too. The databases get very large and occupy alot of memory.

[Joel]

Bad news indeed :( Whenever I read these kinds of news, I think about those who will easily switch to another platform. However, I'm sure palmOne will issue a patch. They always do.

[Ardy]

Joel waht is a patch? Will it fix the problem for good? Or as the name implies is just a patch?
Sorry I'm new to this lingo :D

[IsLNdbOi]

I will not buy a Treo 650 until P1:

A. Releases a patch to change how the Treo 650 handles its memory (basically, they would have to change the type of file system it uses).

B. They physically add more memory to it.

Maybe by the time the GSM version of the Treo 650 comes out, they will have fixed this memory issue.

[wshwe]

Oh how the once mighty have fallen!

[Zork]

Switching wouldnt solve anyting, cause FAT is used on any PDA out there. So much for the usual whining bout bad PalmOne/PalmSource ;) .

[wshwe]

Switching wouldnt solve anyting, cause FAT is used on any PDA out there. So much for the usual whining bout bad PalmOne/PalmSource ;) .Yes it would.

[DennisOS2]

Till now, most discussions have centered on transferring from the T600 to the T650. And yes, that would be the most maddening .......... not being able to easily go between two models that are arguably NOT that different on the surface. However, there are a lot of us that are thinking of moving from a Palm PDA plus cell to the first Palm Smartphone that on the surface finally meets our needs in one unit.

We have the same dilemma ........... how do we easily get our 1000+ contacts over to the T650 without devouring that tiny amount of ram. I have my NX80 ram full, and that includes JackFlash stuffing the flash. Brayder has stated that the new memory architecture precludes manipulation with anything like JackFlash. That leaves only the 23megs ............. not good.

Obviously P1 designed this only for the executive, and not the road warrior. Or maybe they designed it as their 'last hoorah'!

[wshwe]

Palmone has always displayed a haughty elitist attitude. They need to be cut down to size.

[IsLNdbOi]

Yeah, most of the memory problems have been around people transferring their contacts, datebook, to do lists, etc. from their Treo 600 to Treo 650. Also, apps. that usually have any kind of database file, the database usually expands to a very large size. They said that the remedy was to start from scratch and add those contacts, datebook, to do lists into the Treo 650 manually, rather than trasnferring it over from the Treo 600. Can you image manually inputting thousands of contacts?

[DennisOS2]

Yeah, most of the memory problems have been around people transferring their contacts, datebook, to do lists, etc. from their Treo 600 to Treo 650. Also, apps. that usually have any kind of database file, the database usually expands to a very large size. They said that the remedy was to start from scratch and add those contacts, datebook, to do lists into the Treo 650 manually, rather than trasnferring it over from the Treo 600. Can you image manually inputting thousands of contacts?
This business of changing file systems between like-devices and not having a seamless conversion tool at launch for T600 ............ or ANY existing Palm from which a user wishes to make the switch is either a product of either insanity, stupidity, or arrogance. It is the job of the Product Manager to see to it that the product is bullet-proof. They must oversee every part of launching a new product .......... that includes watching over the tech-heads who supposedly know what they're doing. A FAT file system? You're kidding, right? Not knowing the tech-heads are sabotaging you? You're kidding, right? In my company, both groups would now be working in the cafeteria.

When did the customers begin to know more than the developers?

[DennisOS2]

Is there one specific file on the PC that the Palm Desktop address book reads for its content (address.dat)? By any chance, is that PC-based file the same format for older Palm Desktops as for the T650? If so, why not copy the DAT file from the old PC Palm Desktop location to the T650 Palm desktop address book location. (It would have to replace the one that already exists.) Bring it up in the T650 Palm Desktop to see if it reads ok. If so ........... just sync to the T650 and the re-formatting of the file for the new FAT system *should* be done in the sync'ing process .............. shouldn't it?? Or is that just too easy?

[Pingblat]

No fix, no sign of a fix. For reference, my contacts DB went from 145KB to 897KB and another database I use went from 430KB to 3,567KB! Don't buy a Treo 650 if you have large PDB files!

[wshwe]

Unless you must have Bluetooth you're probably better off sticking to the Treo 600. This especially holds true for loyal T-Mobile customers unless they have several hundred dollars to throw around.

[DennisOS2]

Have you read the threads at the TreoCentral forums? After hotsyncing contact lists to their Treo 650's, people are reporting that the contact list's size grows to megabytes. This is happening with apps. with any database files too. The databases get very large and occupy alot of memory.Do you have a 650? Have you moved from another Palm to a 650 and looked at the file size growth? I have, I saw the *expected* file size increase. The file size does NOT grow to megabyte size from nothing. It will grow from 50% to maybe 200% depending on whats stored in the contacts or appointments (notes, pics). Mine grew about 40% to a about 300 - 400K (hundreds of contacts and appointments). And, no, it is not a deal breaker. There is plenty of space for the Treo to be used as PalmOne had intended .............. as a smartPHONE and for those not wanting to buy a PDA but want one at least as part of a phone. For all of those users, they'll be able to store thousands of contacts and a year or two worth of appointments. That type of user won't be storing many pictures or MP3s. That amount and type of data is highly reasonable for that use. For the moderate user .......... one that word processes, games, pic-taker, spreadsheets ........ then its on to a SD card. For the TRUE PDA power-user? Would they use anything with a Treo-sized screen ......... too small for a lot of work (maybe a T|T5?).

If P1 is guilty of anything it could be they chose too little memory. They may have under-estimated SOME users and what they choose to store on the unit. And regarding the file system: it may be old and less sophisticated than others, but is compensated for by the applications. There is nothing inherently wrong with the FS that should cause data / file corruption, excessive lock-ups or people returning the units. Its transparent to 99% of the users.

Yes, I must admit ......... those wishing a different ringtone for each app for each day of the year .......... P1 really screwed up. And let's not forget those who want to create a journal or their life in pictures thay take with it and stored in RAM .......... they'll be running to the stores to return T650s, as well.

[DennisOS2]

No fix, no sign of a fix. For reference, my contacts DB went from 145KB to 897KB and another database I use went from 430KB to 3,567KB! Don't buy a Treo 650 if you have large PDB files!As you've read from my posts, I made the jump to the 650 and all is well. By your experience, especially with the second dB, it was a type that had many small records as opposed the the reverse?? Both my main dBs (contacts, calendar) jumped about 40 - 50%. With everything I could want on the unit (2-3 years of use with a Clie) and routine stuff (data) as well, I have 3megs left. Not a lot, but it should last quite a while. The remainder will go, as with the NX80, on the cards.