1src Forums - TH55 is no match for Pocket PC in terms of...

TMann

10-11-2004, 01:34 AM

The HX4700 is a great device, from what I hear, but remember that you're comparing a $600 device to a $350 one. It is not really a fair comparison. Also, please note that whether a PDA is "better" or not is a matter of what your priorities are. If your main uses on a PDA are 1) movies, 2) games, and 3) GPS, then I would agree that the HP is probably the best device out there. (However, the new Dell and Asus should give the HP a run for its money.) However, most of us who use PDA's are not big gamers, movie watchers, or GPS fanatics. We use our PDA's to help organize our lives, surf the web, download e-mail, read e-books, do light word processing/spreadsheet work, read reference books (dictionaries, medical texts, etc.), listen to mp3's, etc. For all of the tasks I just listed, the TH55, (and a number of other machines,) are much more useful than the large, expensive VGA device you bought.

I briefly owned a Toshiba e805. I loved the screen, but found that it was just too big and bulky for my needs. I find my Tungsten T3 and my Ipaq 4155 to be much more useful to me than the Toshiba. I assume that I would feel the same about the HX4705.

So I'm glad that you're happy with your HP; it's a great machine. But I'm not sure that I see the point of your post. :confused: It sounds like you are trying to justify the amount of money you spent on the HP...

TMann

Unregister1217

10-11-2004, 12:03 PM

1: I have a 54" HD screen for movies.
2: I have enough ways to waste time without a computer game.
3: My car tells me where I need to go. I haven't found a portable GPS that compares.

As a PDA however, I really like the TH55. When I checked, there seemed to be far more productivity and learning tools (especially free and cheap ones) than on the pocket PC. Maybe the PPC is better at anti-productivity (1 and 2) but that wasn't what I bought mine for.

JulianL

10-11-2004, 12:12 PM

I need to work out how to post a poll, and how to phrase the question and possible answers, because I'd be really interested to know how many of us TH55 owners had battery life as one of the most imortant criteria for our purchasing decission. For me it was really key, I would have sacrificed WiFi for more battery life (but am of course glad that Sony managed to give me both). I just don't see any other PDA on the market now, either PPC or PalmOS, that comes close to the TH55 battery life and has a decent colour screen.

- Julian

blck1jack

10-11-2004, 12:42 PM

The HP crap or whatever does not compare to the TH55 in terms of

Size
Battery Life
Simplicity
Multimedia
Style

blck1jack

10-11-2004, 12:47 PM

I do not udestand why anyone would need a VGA screen , my TH is perfect it has a large enough screen but it doesn't compromise the size. Also some of the palm games such as hell fire from Astraware and GTS racing are very good. Also I bet the TH gets the HP's @$$ in PIM and word processing.

jhintonh

10-11-2004, 07:07 PM

Good Evening-

And presumably "Good-Bye" Mr./Mrs. FunFriendship. Please write us from your confined space also known as "Reset Hell" or "PPC-Land". :) JK, of course.

Seriously, this isn't the device you were looking for. You can go now. (Old Jedi mind trick).

Really though, enjoy your over-priced piece of shi.... JK, again.

If you like the iCraq the best, buy it. JK. ;)

With $650 lying around I say, hell, who better to give it to...who the hell needs it more than the financially struggling Bill Gates, right? :) JK

After all, you do not need to be convinced that you WANT and NEED the superior HP device. It is not like you started a thread on some CLIE-centric thread or something. Not like you trolled over to a Palm OS forum and posted that you were "going to buy something different". That would be some sort of a "Hey, look at me...I'm snazzy and fresh...and you all are NOT" statement. Not like you sought the acceptance of perfect strangers on an international website before you made a consumer electronics decision. Not like you did that or something.

I mean, people who are truly "dog-people" do not go into a cat kennel and say, "Hot Damn, I'm buying me a dog!" If they really love the dog more then they do not care if cat-people smirk and scoff at their attention-dependant pet pick. Right?

I am sure you are going to love your new dog....errr.....iPaq.

-Jhintonh

Mark29

10-11-2004, 08:27 PM

TH55 is no match for Pocket PC in terms of...

1. Movies (movies are much better on the VGA screen)
2. Games (more great games with better graphics)
3. GPS device (no need to comment since it is obvious)

Just these 3 reasons alone (there are more) is enough for me to buy the HX4705. :D

1. Don't wanna watch movies on a screen that fits in my palm. The TH55 is a great size for e-books, though.
2. No time for games.
3. Haven't found a need for a GPS device.

So for me it's no match for my Clie which does everything I need and not a whole bunch of stuff I don't.

Mark

FIA WRC

10-11-2004, 08:46 PM

I don't think it's fair to compair a VGA screen to the TH-55's screen. But I'll gladly use my TH instead of the new PPC's. After your battery dies from watching movies, mine will still be going. I saw the reviews that PDAgold put up on the Asus My Pal 730 and today they posted the review on the HP 4700. I haven't seen bad battery time like that since my T-665c.

FunFriendship

10-12-2004, 12:34 AM

I also have the TH55 and I use it everday, especially for looking up medical information such as 5 minute consult or a varieties of other Skyscape programs.

The point that I am trying to make is that no PDA is perfect and that certain PDA is better for different types of task.

I merely want to emphasize the big difference between the HX4705 and the TH55.

It is great to have both machines in order to compare the 2. When one has both machines, it is easier to point out the advantages and disadvantages.

For people who only have the TH55 or only the HX4705, there will be more bias toward one or another. But if you have both machines that you love, then you are less bias

Don't get me wrong, I love my TH55. However, I also love my HX4705.

By the way, for those who are in the medical field, don't you ever wish that you could have the program Up to Date on your PDA. With a Pocket PC, you can have that opportunity. Sometimes 5MCC is just not enough.

th-55 or...

10-12-2004, 11:01 AM

Mark29

10-12-2004, 11:11 AM

hi, i currently have (and of course it is dead) the palm 705...
anyway.. buying an upgrade... love the th-55 (look feel features) but.. after a few questions to sonystyle.. they are a complete and utter waste... i can't seem to get a straight answer to a question.. wanted to know if folks would still choose a clie.. and is my experience with sony support normal?

This may be an unpopular answer, but if I had to do it right now I would look somewhere other than Sony considering that they have pulled out of the US PDA market. Dead product will mean dead customer service. It has even affected the market for accessories. E&B had been planning on a slipper case for the TH55, but scrapped the plans.

Mark

daver

10-12-2004, 11:17 AM

If it felt like replies to your e-mails were being writting by monkeys sitting at computers, then your experience with sony support is perfectly normal. those guys can't tell the different between their elbows and their butts. i use my clie strictly for work (word processing, e-mail, reading, etc.), so i've never really used any multimedia functions. however, now that i've spent too much money on software (Agendus, Documents to Go), my next PDA might be a PPC as PPC's do have better compatibility with Microsoft software (i'll give it PPCs this time), because Mobile Windows 2003 is a Microsoft product and everyone nows how picky Microsoft is when it comes to software compatibility. But that new PDA won't be for some while because I intend to make the most use of my TJ37, for the next 5-6 years if i can. Fingers crossed.

daver

FIA WRC

10-12-2004, 12:07 PM

Who ever wants the HP 4700 you may want to hold off. Dell just relesed their X50 line. The X50v looks like it'll beat the other VGA PPC in price and offer nearly the same specs. They even put in the new Intel 2700 chip. The only PPC using this. The others are using the PXA270.

Ion Control

10-12-2004, 01:25 PM

Ahhh, the old PPC v Palm debate. I think it's settled (at least for me) with two words: OS stability.

'nuff said

blck1jack

10-12-2004, 04:35 PM

How many PPC softwares are there out there like 2 compared to palm's 20,000+

Unregister1217

10-12-2004, 05:58 PM

I think I understand where funfriend is coming from. If I had bought two expensive PDAs, I'd be looking for a justification too. I don't think movies and games works but I understand the motivation.

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 02:51 AM

I think I understand where funfriend is coming from. If I had bought two expensive PDAs, I'd be looking for a justification too. I don't think movies and games works but I understand the motivation.

I actually use the HX4705 for multimedia/entertainment and my Clie TH55 for work. I hate to bring the TH55 into my house to recharge since it has such great battery life.

Movies are indeed better on the HX4705. Have you seen movies being played on the VGA screen using Betaplayer? It is like watching DVD on a small screen. The TH55 is no match.

Ion Control

10-13-2004, 10:32 AM

What "specs" are your DVD files? I can watch DVDs on my TH-55 using MMPlayer with little trouble...

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 11:58 AM

What "specs" are your DVD files? I can watch DVDs on my TH-55 using MMPlayer with little trouble...

When I use MMPlayer to view movies on my TH55, I was disappointed. In fact, it is worse than using the default movie player in the TH55.
Using the HX4705 with Betaplayer is much better (and in full screen too).

bobby jones

10-13-2004, 12:38 PM

just sticking to the orginal thread however, and i have had many palms, clies and ipaqs (currently use nz90 and mio 168) - i think it is true (if you don't compare price, size, etc), then yes -- that particular ipaq model does show movies better, has better graphics and movement for complex games, and does interface with gps better. of course like anything else, there is more to that when making a buying decision. i don't prefer my clie over my mio, i simply use both for different reasons. my nz90 is very large and was costly (i paid $799 when it first came out). how can anyone get into the price issue when you think about the nz90 and vz90? size wise, both ppc and palm/clies have small units. and selection wise? well, many of those applications are quite basic, and many have not been upgraded to current os. like mac and pc, personal choice is the deciding factor.

Unregister1217

10-13-2004, 01:00 PM

Movies are indeed better on the HX4705. Have you seen movies being played on the VGA screen using Betaplayer? It is like watching DVD on a small screen. The TH55 is no match.

When I said "works" I meant as a justification - not "technically possible".

JesseL

10-13-2004, 01:55 PM

** CREDIBILITY **

TH55 is no match for Pocket PC in terms of...

1. Movies (movies are much better on the VGA screen)
2. Games (more great games with better graphics)
3. GPS device (no need to comment since it is obvious)

Just these 3 reasons alone (there are more) is enough for me to buy the HX4705. :D

You know this is just representative of how the failed WIntel monoploy attempts to dumb down the consumer by swaying them with flashy insignificant features that deviate from the original intent of the invention.

Movies, Games, GPS..? Portable units for these features already exists that are far superior to anything PocketPC will probably ever produce. If anthing they are lame attempts by WinTel to gain market share only for the sake of market share. There is no innovation. In fact PocketPC is a worse scale Windows of the Windows everyone has grown to hate. VGA? My god listen to yourself.

You see the same thing with the Xbox.

Let me say these features as they appear on the Palm platform are cute add ons,. I dont prefer a PDA the size of a toaster so I can indulge in pointless entertainment that it in fact only offers superior features relative to a device without the same intent. Not to Portable DVD Players, Not to PSP, Not to a Garmin. Wintel products are generally suckers products.

No offense intended.

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 04:44 PM

JesseL,

You hate the fact that Windows products are being dispersed into many forms that are not innovative and exist only to make profits. Well, have you heard of the phrase "supply and demand?" If their is no demand, then the PPC or the XBox would be dead a long time already. People are not generally so stupid that they can be fooled into buying whatever Windows stuffs come out.

The Pocket PC quench the demands for portability. You cannot carry a laptop inside your pocket. Of course a laptop would performs much better than a PPC, but it also cannot do things that a PPC is able to do.

Like my first post has stated, the HX4705 (or even the Dell Axim 50v) would dominate over the TH55 in those 3 categories.

jhintonh

10-13-2004, 04:58 PM

Good Evening, JesseL-

I see your post count is only at 4 and you just joined this month.

Well I for one welcome you. Your post above was well written, logical and spiked with nice sarcastic shards that I especially enjoyed.

Your points were sound and I agree with them. Wanting a "hand-held" (that is the key adjective here) that can perform so many supplementary functions is failure to see the smokescreen. It is tantamount to changing the subject when someone asks you an unconfortable question (i.e. Q: "Did you kill that man?" A: "I donated $5000 to the Red Cross last year").

Here is my analogy: I buy a lawn tractor. I take it home, crank it up, it runs for two minutes and then shuts down. I take it back to the store where I purchased it and they try to fix it to no avail. So I ask to swap it for a less expensive model. The clerk says to me, "But that model does not come with cup holders or a free barbecue grill."

Axiom: A barbecue grill is not needed to cut one's grass. Neither are cupholders.

Certainly, it is nice to have the grill so that while I am mowing the lawn I can be cooking up some delicious hamburgers with Campbell's French Onion Soup mix, Worchester Sauce and Tabasco added. Certainly, it is a welcomed bonus to be able to have one's favorite adult beverage at hand whilst cutting the grass.

However, one cannot relish the thought of one's dinner cooking or partake of a refreshing Wild Turkey in Coke whilst mowing the grass if the lawn mower will not mow the grass. Therein lies the problem. Basics. Stability of the OS. Basics. Large library of software to choose from. Basics. Good compatibility between OS versions. Basics.

These are my opinions. My opinions just happen to usually be factual and accurate.

Again, welcome JesseL. I will no doubt "read" you around.

-Jhintonh

jhintonh

10-13-2004, 05:08 PM

People are not generally so stupid that they can be fooled into buying whatever Windows stuffs come out.

Good Evening-

Unfortunately, they are. The "demand" that you spoke of is often merely fad driven and short-lived (Does anyone still carry around a Tamaguci or whatever they were called?). Often times the moniker of "new" is enough to lure poor unsuspecting gadget addicted individuals (I am a member of that hapless club myself) into purchasing a niche product. And then once it is purchased, especially if the outlay price was steep, no one wants to say to their friends and peers, "Yep, I got rooked...this thing is a $700 P.O.S." (that does not stand for Point Of Sale in this instance, BTW). So they talk-up this device and an artificial value is assigned.

Palm has been guilty of this machination as well. Witness the T2 and the T5.

But Palm does have most of the basics down pat.

Hell, I would be happy with DOS on a hand-held if it had a pretty GUI.

-Jhintonh

jhintonh

10-13-2004, 05:11 PM

Good Evening-

And this is the last post for me on this thread (maybe).

Innovation is good. Period.

But the product or process that is innovated must be good to start with. A toaster with four slots rather than two is a good innovation becuase the basics, a heating coil that chars bread, works well. So simply adding another two slots and two more sets of heating coils is good (so long as you have counter top space for the larger unit).

The advice I often give to others that I see doing stupid things is simple:

Just because you CAN...does NOT mean you SHOULD.

-Jhintonh

CliePet

10-13-2004, 06:43 PM

> Who ever wants the HP 4700 you may want to hold off. Dell just relesed their X50 line.

One such review/comparison:

http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/Dell_Axim_X50v.htm

Dell X50V - $499 (and cheaper models)
HP 4705 - $649

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 10:09 PM

CliePet,

I would have bought the Axim X50v instead of the HP HX4705 if it had not been for the fact that I have a big CompUSA gift card that cannot be used to buy a Dell product.
Anyway, my feeling of the latest PPC's dominating in those 3 categories still stands.

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 10:38 PM

FunFriendship

10-13-2004, 10:49 PM

The advice I often give to others that I see doing stupid things is simple:

Just because you CAN...does NOT mean you SHOULD.

-Jhintonh

...but if you Don't, then who WOULD?

Note: the above addendum does not apply to doing stupid things but applies to innovations such great discoveries or inventions.....however, in this case it is having the ability to buy an HX4705 in addition to the TH55.

jhintonh

10-14-2004, 06:02 AM

Jhintonh,

Boy, I love debates.

Your analogy of the lawn tractor and your discussion on "basics" vs. "excessiveness" have some flaw.
If that is the case, why don't we all drive a Yugo instead of driving a Lexus. A Yugo still takes us from point A to point B and thus carry out its "basic" function of a vehicle.

Good Morning-

Have you seen any new Yugos for sale, sir? No. Why? They failed as basic transportation because they were unreliable. They were prone to failure. They were not good cars. Your diagnosis of my analogy is poor and inaccurate. My analogy was not flawed. it was your side-blinded analysis.

Further, the reason we do not all drive Yugos, other than the fact that they are no longer manufactured, is that some prefer to ADD style to their BASICS. Why do we not all wear white shirts of the same cut with pants of the same color and same style? Because of personal preferences. But we would not buy a pair of pants that were stylistic different if they had no crotch (unless you live in California :)). The basics are what is the import of my analogy, not stylistic fluffy add-ons. Read the analogy again.

The point of the first post is to point out that the latest PPC's have features that the TH55 cannot compare to. Of course the TH55 can play games, can play movies, and can even use GPS if the TH55 has bluetooth capability or use a mouse GPS system for those TH55 without a bluetooth. However, it is not as good when compared to the latest PPC.

Again you are swayed by the "extras" of both devices. My point was that the basics are better accomplished by the Palm OS versus the PPC OS. Your final sentence there above is very juvenile for someone who started of this post by saying they love debates. saying that the TH55 is "not good" is contradictory to your earlier misdirections. Try again.

How can a Yugo compare to a Farrari in terms of speed, looks, and wow factor. Of course the Farrari cannot compare to a Yugo in terms of cost and gas mileage....just as the HX4705 cannot compare to the battery life and small size factor with the TH55. Each machinery has its own strong points and weaknesses and people buy things because they like the "strong points" of those items. People don't buy things just for the "basics" features.

No one but you would ever dream of comparing a Yugo and a Ferrari, sir. And your theory that "People don't buy things just for the "basics" features" is in direct opposition to your very own sentence right before it, "people buy things because they like the "strong points" of those items". What can be a stronger point than the basic ability for the device to function regularly and reliably? Nothing is the correct answer. Try it out, you will like it, say it with me, "Nothing is more important to the value of any consumer product than its ability to operate regularly and reliably". I think that is reasonable.

It should be said that had you chosen a different tack with your "debate" you may have had a leg to stand on. For instance, had you tried to discuss the fact that the PPC OS has become more stable than it used to be, that would have been a valid point. But you failed to see what I (and JesseL to be fair) was saying. Your thread was flawed from its titling: TH55 is no match for Pocket PC in terms of.... Immediately, your bias is revealed.

It's okay for you to like the PPC better. Cool. It's fine if you feel that the "extras" that PPC offers to you personally makes it more valuable to you than the TH55. Cool. But grandstanding on a TH55 forum to say that the PPC device is superior to the TH55 without being apprised of the facts regarding the basics (the OS issues) is goofy.

-Jhintonh

jhintonh

10-14-2004, 06:14 AM

...but if you Don't, then who WOULD?

Note: the above addendum does not apply to doing stupid things but applies to innovations such great discoveries or inventions.....however, in this case it is having the ability to buy an HX4705 in addition to the TH55.

Good Evening-

Your "Note" portion of your post above is the most intersting part. It basically says that your attempt to deride my statement (If you can does not mean you should) is a poorly aimed, badly said, incorrect and non-relevant response. In your own words.

My statement in my post specifically stated that the axiom applied to stupid things. You side-stepped the actual words said and instead chose to warp others' words to your liking. Did you take debate classes? Did they teach you that in those classes? There is a huge difference between a debate and a pool hall argument.

Great discoveries or inventions as you called them are not stupid things, sir. And adding VGA and GPS and fancy movie playback to a device running a failure prone operating system is neither a great discovery nor an invention. Examine the issue logically before typing any responses. These forums are good for expanding your knowledge, which sometimes includes removing our preconceived notions of what we "thought" we knew.

I am right. You are not wrong, you a re just not on issue. I am saying apples taste good and you are saying oranges have vitamin C. Apples and oranges. Different.

Nonetheless, I have somewhat enjoyed this exercise. I hope you have learned from it as there will be a test later. Just kidding. If you choose to take offence at anything I said, please choose correctly.

-Jhintonh

FunFriendship

10-14-2004, 10:21 AM

Jhintonh,

No, I am not offended by what you had just said. But here is what I think.
First, I know that the Yugo is a poor car and it has been out of commission for many years. My comparison between the Yugo and a Farrari is indeed extreme but I was trying to make a point of the basic functionality of a vehicle, which is getting you from point A to point B. I am not implying that the TH55 is like a Yugo and the HX4705 is like a Farrari. Now if a Yugo and a Farrari is too much of an extreme, then how about a standard Camry and the Lexus LS430?
If you want to talk about "basics" then both cars are able take you from point A to point B and are able to carry passengers and goods.
If you want to talk about "stability" and "reliability" then I hope you agree that both cars are indeed pretty stable and reliable.
Now let's say that since the Lexus is a luxury car, it would have top-of-the-line audio equipment and heated leather seats with automatic climate control. These things are not seen in the standard Camry.
Now would it be justifiable to say that the Camry is no match for the Lexus in terms of:

1. Audio system
2. Seat comfort
3. Better climate control

Of course those are what you called "extras." The Camry also has and audio system, car seats, and AC/heater but those equipments are no match to Lexus's equipments.

You ask me to read your analogy again, but I also must ask you to read my first post. In that first post, I did not mention anything about stability of the two types of PDA.

It is funny how after you read my first post the digression of "stability" and the unjustification of "extras" suddenly appear in your mind.

You attack my post based on "stability" which you think supersedes "functionality" when defining how good those 3 features are. Hmmm....the last time I check....I do recall having to soft reset my TH55 due to it freezing up on me.

FunFriendship

10-14-2004, 11:17 AM

Good Evening-

Your "Note" portion of your post above is the most intersting part. It basically says that your attempt to deride my statement (If you can does not mean you should) is a poorly aimed, badly said, incorrect and non-relevant response. In your own words.

-Jhintonh

Ha ha ha, I find this to be amusing. I made that statement as more of a joke. I should have put the emoticon :D with it. Of course that little adage is good and should be kept in mind. It is not wise to do stupid things. I merely saw that phrase and want to make another funny follow up statement that rhymes. I got it to rhyme, but would not make a good point so I put in that little "note:"

Inventions can sometime be stupid. Ever heard of stupid inventions? That is why I had to put in the word "great" before the word inventions.

jhintonh

10-14-2004, 11:23 AM

Yugo is a poor car and it has been out of commission for many years.

No longer made and I would hazard to guess most are out of commision.

If you want to talk about "basics" then both cars are able take you from point A to point B and are able to carry passengers and goods.

Now you are making my point. Incidentally, both the Camry and the Lexus are made by Toyota. And I own a Lexus.

...but those equipments are no match to Lexus's equipments.

This is your opinion. Again you are traversing the road away from the point.

I did not mention anything about stability of the two types of PDA.

So what. I mentioned stability and reliability. I never said you mentioned those things. It was your lack of mentioning those very important aspects that is the thrust of my point of view. I feel the devices ability to consistently (note the word...not ALL of the time, no device is perfect, this is a comparison not a sterile laboratory) FUNCTION is the most important capability. You obviously disagree.

It is funny how after you read my first post the digression of "stability" and the unjustification of "extras" suddenly appear in your mind.

No digression was made. I made MY point and since you fail to understand it, you view it as a digression. Your supposition was that the HP was superior to the TH55 and you stated your supporting facts. I deem those features that you value so highly to be "extras" as they would not function if the device does not function. If you disagree with that I am afraid that you are probably a first year college student or a young person being instructed by public schools and you are trying to approach a purely logical issue with an emotionally driven meta-physical non-tangential argument. Unjustification is not a word, but I think I understand your attempt to communicate. I have not tried to devalue "extras". I have simply stated that they are just that...extras.

You attack my post based on "stability" which you think supersedes "functionality" when defining how good those 3 features are. Hmmm....the last time I check....I do recall having to soft reset my TH55 due to it freezing up on me.

Stability and functionality are synonyms in this instance. Again, stability and the devices ability to function DOES supercede all else. Simple physics actually. It is fun to play "I spy" but not for a blind person. Hmmm...I have had to reset my TH55 as well. Was that lock-up due to the OS or a third party application that was not playing nice? Hmmm. It still goes to the argument of reliability though, either way. It has however been my experience having owned three Pocket PCs and seven Palms that my instances of what I would call "fatal" lock-ups, those resulting in HARD resets are FAR more common and are in fact "regular" on Pocket PCs, whereas I can literally count the number of times I have had to hard reset one of Palm devices in the past 13 years. A hard reset is exponentially more punitive than a simple soft reset, I think you would agree.

Pocket PC's have their place. Evidentally in your hand is one of those places. Palms are currently more stable and more reliable than Pocket PCs.

-Jhintonh

Ion Control

10-14-2004, 11:49 AM

Palms are currently more stable and more reliable than Pocket PCs.

I would have to agree. I've owned Palm's for 4 years now and have to hard reset 8-9 times. 7 of those were the direct result of a program that "didn't play nice". 1 was the result of a faulty device (I guess it reset several times before I figured this out, come to think of it). I took it back for an exchange, no problems. A friend of mine has a PPC. He's had to hard reset that many times *this year*. PPCs may have better hardware specs, etc but the OS is the key. The Lexus/Camry is a perfect example (though they're both made by Toyota (perhaps Camry v BMW would be better)): if the Lexus' on-board computer dies and won't let you start the car, the Camery is 1,000x better since it will run. The sweet sound system, built-in DVD, leather seats, etc on the Lexus are meaningless if it's sitting in your garage 'cause it won't start (again, just an example, never heard of this happening). Extend the analogy one step farther. What if there's vitally important information in the Lexus and whatever goes wrong with the computer either destroys your data or puts it at risk? Suppose this flaw is well-known (Window's well-known instability). Would you buy the Lexus or the Camry? If you buy the Lexus for the bells & whistles, by all means, enjoy them. I will, however, wave and then continue down the road in my Camry while you wait for the tow truck...

OK, all the analogies get silly (and confusing). Simply put, the Palm OS is infinitely more stable than Windows "PPC". Being able to play video faster or cleaner is meaningless if your PPC just crashed and the hard reset wiped the video file. More importantly, what if you have several very important numbers/appointments entered in and haven't had a chance to sync yet? What about a crash then? The Palm OS is reliable. I never worry about a hard reset (though I do backup regularly just in case (but the TH-55 battery life is so good I sometimes wonder why :D )). My friend with the PPC, on numerous occassions, has let out a scream as he lost something because Windows PPC locked up.

If movies, games, etc are important, then go PPC (I guess). If reliability, stability and wide software choices are important, Palm seems to be the route to follow. Of course, with Sony leaving the market and Palm releasing the dubious T5, the Palm market may be dying :(

FunFriendship

10-14-2004, 12:11 PM

Incidentally, both the Camry and the Lexus are made by Toyota. And I own a Lexus.

-Jhintonh

A lot of people know about this fact. Two different cars made by the same company do not mean that they are both the same. I also own a Lexus, so what is your point?

If you disagree with that I am afraid that you are probably a first year college student or a young person being instructed by public schools and you are trying to approach a purely logical issue with an emotionally driven meta-physical non-tangential argument.-Jhintonh

Before you open your mouth and assume this, you should think of how you would feel if I assume the same thing about you.
For your information, I am an Internal Medicine doctor. I am on call often and do important things such as intubation, run a code, and saving lives instead of sitting in class attending my first year of college.

This is your opinion. Again you are traversing the road away from the point.

This whole topic is full of opinion starting from the first post. I have the TH55 and HX4705 and I have not had to do a mandatory hard reset on any of them and the number of soft resets are about the same. We both have different experiences on our units and that is how we come to our different conclusion. In my first post, I did not base my comment on any scientific proof.

For me, if I want to watch movies, play games, or use the GPS feature, I would choose my HX4705 over my TH55.

Cyker

10-14-2004, 01:04 PM

Wow, you guys take this whole PPC vs PalmOS thing really seriously don't you? :p

Ion Control

10-14-2004, 01:09 PM

You bet! Bush v Kerry has nothing on Palm v PPC ;)

blck1jack

10-14-2004, 03:31 PM

First of all the TH55's audio system is way better than the Ipaqs and the video/audio quality is better than the Ipaqs between you and me I 'd rather play less money for a screen that's already high resolution than the super high resolution you can't even see. The TH wins overall with Stability, Style, Features, Ease of Use and Battery Life.

jhintonh

10-14-2004, 03:59 PM

A lot of people know about this fact. Two different cars made by the same company do not mean that they are both the same. I also own a Lexus, so what is your point?

No point. Actually I was trying to ascertain if you were purposefully selecting vehicles produced by the same manufacturer. In my opinion, if you were intentionally doing so, it was a good choice.

Before you open your mouth and assume this, you should think of how you would feel if I assume the same thing about you.
For your information, I am an Internal Medicine doctor. I am on call often and do important things such as intubation, run a code, and saving lives instead of sitting in class attending my first year of college.

I would not feel any way in particular if a total stranger on an internet forum assumed information about me that I had not given him/her. I have not invested any emotion into this discussion. All of my points have been purely factual, no "it makes me feel warm and fuzzy" type comments from me. BTW, my wife is an internal medicine doctor (small world, eh?) and the Lexus is actually hers. I drive a BMW 540i. And I have not sat in class in many years (except during continuing education classes for my primary profession). All of your responses seemed so touchy-feely that I made an educated guess as to your vocation. I was incorrect. No big deal. Read again that I said you were "probably" a college stucdent. I was just guessing. You can call me a garbage man or a pig herder or whatever you want. I do not care. I do not know you. You and I are not dating. You are not my relative. We have no emotional ties. I do not care about you. We are just two adults talking about a relatively unimportant consumer electronics purchase.

This whole topic is full of opinion starting from the first post. I have the TH55 and HX4705 and I have not had to do a mandatory hard reset on any of them and the number of soft resets are about the same. We both have different experiences on our units and that is how we come to our different conclusion. In my first post, I did not base my comment on any scientific proof.

No scientific tests done on my part either. Just 13 years of using both OS's. If you had been an internal med doctor for 13 years I bet you would/do (you may have been a int med doc for 13 yrs, I do not know) know a whole lot about which insurance care providers for instance are better performers. That is called real world experience. That is all I was bringing to the table.

For me, if I want to watch movies, play games, or use the GPS feature, I would choose my HX4705 over my TH55.

Okay. Knock yourself out. Am I allowed in your world to say that the Palm OS, which is used on the TH55 is more stable? Or must I only like/respect a device based on your criteria? I use my CLIE for my occupations. And it works marvelously for everything I use it for, including watching movies, listening to music and playing the type of games that I enjoy.

We will have to agree to disagree. Which is not a bad thing. It just means I am not a pus*y wimp and neither are you. Is that so bad? I think not.

Enjoy your device. I will enjoy mine (more often since mine will not crash as often as your ;)) and I will surely "read" you around on these forums. In between your calls, surely.

Now go save some lives, man!

:)

-Jhintonh

FunFriendship

10-14-2004, 06:28 PM

Now go save some lives, man!

:)

-Jhintonh

I did that last week for someone in septic shock. Watching the patient's blood pressure plummeting is a scary thing. Luckily the patient responded well to pressors and Xigris.

But all work and no play makes me a dull boy. So let me take out my 2 little PDA's....but oh which one should I play. :D

jhintonh

10-14-2004, 07:27 PM

So let me take out my 2 little PDA's....but oh which one should I play. :D

Good Evening-

Wel using history as a gauge, I would say you will be using your TH55 since your new shiny PPC will undoubtedly be down with a case of the repetitive-crash-syndrome.

;)

My work is finished here.

-Jhintonh

mutantblack

10-15-2004, 12:21 AM

damn...it's really intense and fun reading these debates. Both of u noe what u guys r talkin abuout...nice.

Cyker

10-15-2004, 01:47 AM

Put Warfare on both and see if you can have a BlueTooth/WiFi multiplayer game with yourself :D

plampitan

10-19-2004, 04:50 AM

Wow... it's getting hot..
I've been using both Palm and PPC and found that Palm PDAs is more managable and reliable.
I'm selling a lot of used PPCs and Palms, and one of the problem that I had with PPCs is that when I forgot to charge for several days, the device would hard reset automatically. It's kinda annoying at times.
Actually PPC and Palm can't be compared using the apple to apple comparison. Thus, IMHO this thread will trigger a neverending debate. :)
So what is my stand? Of course Palm PDAs. It's functional, more stylish (subjective), reliable, lots of program, and the most important thing CHEAPERRRR!!
For those who prefer PPCs, well I respect their decision, but it doesn't necessarily means that I'm going to use one.
Have a nice day.

JesseL

10-22-2004, 05:38 PM

I hate to do this... but.. Is it really about PocketPC or about Microsoft? Look at the inherent security flaws in Microsoft's Desktop and Server operating systems. Superior operating systems such as Unix/Linux, Macintosh? and.. Commodore 64 don't have these problems to the magnitude that Windows does. That you will purchase a buggy, insecure, exploitable and incomplete OS with Microsoft is a known fact. Coders will tell you that Microsoft's programming methodology is not to fix bugs but to write over them, that is, not remove bugs but add features to the OS that make the bugs themselves features.

Now given the fact that your PPC will soon be over connected to the world, do you really want some hacker to exploit via Wifi.. the EXPLODING PPC bug? Ouch :eek:

How much battery life will you spend downloading security patches to your PPC, or better yet how many add-on products will you need to purchase to help address every conceivable exploit.

I suppose I may be reprimanded by the moderators, but in a world where Microsoft is many times a hot topic, you are asking for this type of discussion when you post in a SONY forum.. ' WINTEL is better than SONY because..'

:rolleyes: JL

Ion Control

10-22-2004, 10:20 PM

I will say one thing in Micosoft's defense re: security... There is no such thing as a truly secure OS. There are only OS's that carry a large enough market share to be an attractive target for hackers and those that don't. If somehow UNIX became the OS of choice for nearly 90% of the world's computers users, it would quickly become a security-weak OS as hackers turned their eye to it and focused all their efforts it. The only reason 95% of us are relatively safe from hackers is that we don't have a whole lot they want. It has nothing (much) to do with or firewalls, OS, etc. You put a message on the web in a "high traffic" area saying "I have a UNIX machine and all of my credit card numbers, SS#, etc are there if you can get them" and you better expect your cards to max within a month. It's the nature of the beast. A handful of programmers will never be as smart as the a world of hackers. Hackers outnumber the programmers 100 to 1. There's always someone smarter.

Now, Microsoft's problem is that they have done a good job of handling security threats and have been too reliant on "legacy support" to truly fix many holes. This is a philosphical choice that has both ups and downs (the fact that I can still run programs I bought in 1996 is great! The fact that some of the security holes have been around since 1996 isn't).

It's all a trade-off. The choice comes down to whether you go with security and relative OS obscurity or widfe-acceptance and vulnerability. Luckily, Palm OS is a major hitter and is also quite stable and secure. We're blessed in this respect. PDA's aren't that big a target yet, anyway. Now that they're heading in the online direction, we may find that the Palm OS is a security nightmare. Who knows? When you get down it, choosing to carry a PDA is a significant security risk. Few things are easier to steal, and given the fact that 99%+ of us have no security enabled on our PDAs, we're swcrewed if we have one stolen.

I think it's unfair to blame Microsoft too much for all its security woes and suggest that an OS like Palm is more secure because it's not MS. We can't say an OS is truly secure until over a million hackers target it for 5 years and then haven't gotten in. You give the hackers a reason to focus on your PDA and you're screwed, Palm OS or no. The only safe route then is not to ever use it.

All this to say: Windows (and related products) is the most insecure OS in the world. The main reason, however, is because if you can hack into Windows, you can hack into 95% of the world's computers. No brainer. If I'm a hacker, I'm not gonna take the effort to become a UNIX hacker. Let this be a lesson for all you "My OS isn't Windows so I'm safe". You WANT Windows to remain the dominant OS in the market. If Windows ever fails, your OS is the next target :)

Spiral

10-22-2004, 10:38 PM

So what is my stand? Of course Palm PDAs. It's functional, more stylish (subjective), reliable, lots of program, and the most important thing CHEAPERRRR!!
Sure, at low-end models. A low-end Axim X30 can't compete price-wise with a Zire. But neither can a Zire compete in features with the X30. If you're going to compare prices, at least get two similarly priced models. For example, Axim X30 high for around 300 dollars (as low as 270 on deals). Same with Zire 72 ~250+ new. But the X30 has 3x the usable memory (of course fewer programs will fit), dual wireless, faster processor, and rotation. Zire 72 gets a higher resolution screen and camera. Of course the Zire 72 has its horrible case, but that doesn't really apply if you're trying to compare ppc and palm. Right now, no pda can beat the X30 for bang for buck.

DanT

10-23-2004, 12:42 AM