Prospective SJ33 Buyer -- Need Information

[MomToGo]

I have a few questions for you experts out there, and first I'd like to say that I'm just as disappointed in Sony as the rest of you because they do not recognize the Mac population. It seems very short-sighted.

Now ... here's my situation: I am getting ready to replace my clunky, outdated Handspring Visor, which has actually served me well. I have narrowed my choices to the Palm M515 and the Clie PEG-SJ33. I would prefer the SJ33 because of the faster processor, better screen resolution and MP3 player. However, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of trying to get it to work w/ my iMac G4 running OS/X 10.1.5.

The upside is that we also run a Compaq, and it is networked w/ the G4. So, will I be able to sync w/ my G4 using Palm Desktop 4.0 & the Entourage Conduit without getting involved w/ Missing Sync? I'm assuming I could install the Clie software on the Compaq and use it for loading and unloading documents and MP3 files, but all of my calendar events, contacts, and tasks live in Entourage.

Comments?

Love,

[Mastervtec]

I don't know about your syncing issues, but I think the sj33 would be the better choice, like you said the better screen, no other screen really compares to the clie line-up. But, I would go with the t665 if you can still find one. The sj33 is always dirty looking on the front with its grease magnet cover, it also doesn't have the extended ir, and therefore does not have the clie remote commander, which some find uselful and others find it useless. Both pda's are a good choice, but whatever you do, I would go with the clie, however, I use a computer with windows xp and I don't know what issues you have with mac and syncing. Good Luck!!!

[parmesian]

Originally posted by MomToGo
However, I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of trying to get it to work w/ my iMac G4 running OS/X 10.1.5.
it is definitely worth the (little) hassle
Originally posted by MomToGo
So, will I be able to sync w/ my G4 using Palm Desktop 4.0 & the Entourage Conduit without getting involved w/ Missing Sync? I'm assuming I could install the Clie software on the Compaq and use it for loading and unloading documents and MP3 files, but all of my calendar events, contacts, and tasks live in Entourage.

you really need to get missing sync. i have used it with my clies with every mac os from 9.x to 10.2.4. it works very well with the entourage conduit (i use it several times a day). i know the extra cost might make you want to go the other way, but just like the mac (and the clie) it's worth the extra for all it does.:D

[Akeel6]

how well does the clie sync with entourage i've had nothing but problems tryng to sync with entourage. I have currently a palm V and am running 10.2.4, just bought a clie sj33, planning to try to sync and it it doesnt' work will return to store. I would liek to sync with entourage instead of palm desktop are there any tricks and special things i should do other than install the entourage conduit?

[parmesian]

first, make sure you have the latest versions of each program (palm desktop for mac 4.0, missing sync 3.0.5, microsoft office with all updates, entourage sync conduit)

install in this order for best results

microsoft office and updates
palm desktop
missing sync
entourage conduit

i am rather anal about things and i prefer to do a restart between each installation (gives the computer a chance to really accept the changes the previous installation made before trying to change things for the next installation)

everytime i have had problems, reinstalling in this order has saved the day.:D

[MomToGo]

OK ... well, I feel like I'm spending waaay too much time in making this decision. I think the Clie would be a wonderful PDA if it weren't for the Mac/Clie issues. The screen resolution compared to the Palm is ... well ... there's no comparison.

However ... these synching issues are really bothering me, and I am considering buying the Palm just on principle! I am very disappointed that Sony has not stepped up to the challenge of supporting the Mac platform. If Mark Space can do it, then surely with their vast resources, they should also be able to do it.

OK ... I'm done ranting, and I have a couple of more questions:

What is the real reason that a Clie won't sync to a Mac w/out Missing Sync? The only rationale I've heard so far has to do with the MP3 player. Yet, I've read at least one account that an individual was able to sync to Entourage using the Palm Hotsync software & MS Entourage Conduit and no Missing Sync. Have anyone of you here been able to accomplish that?

Another issue that has reared its ugly head during my research: Sony is rather stingy with their OS upgrades. Do you have to pay them to upgrade the OS? Is this true only for major upgrades, or does it also hold true for intermediate upgrades? Can you flash the OS upgrade, or do you have to send the unit back to Sony? Yes, I've read accounts where users had to send their units in. Perhaps that was to go from OS 4.x to 5.x, and I believe that requires a hardware change.

OK you guys ... what's the scoop?

Love,

[parmesian]

the reason for the problem has to do with the way sony does the connecting through usb. for all clies with mp3 capabilities there is a string of nonstandard usb commands that are sent during the hotsync process. this causes the hotsync to become a notsync on the mac (we are very specific about standards in our world). missing sync fixes this problem wonderfully. missing sync also allows you to mount the memory stick on the desktop like a hard drive (more useful than you might think). it also gives you things others (read windoze users) don't get - conduits for iphoto and itunes.

as for the upgrades of the os, sony hasn't charged for one that i can remember, but they don't come out with them as often as palm does because they have to wait for palm to put theirs out and then sony adds their propritory stuff. it only makes sense to do this for big upgrades. they do, however, provide os patches for problems.

here's the bottom line (IMHO) you were willing to pay the extra and go through the hassle of being a mac person in the pc world and you have found it to be wonderful because you really do get what you pay for. the same will hold true for purchasing the clie. it will take more work on some of the background technical issues, but the experience of using the product for the long haul is worth the extra expense and effort at the beginning. don't settle, get the best. (end of sermon):D

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by parmesian
here's the bottom line (IMHO) you were willing to pay the extra and go through the hassle of being a mac person in the pc world and you have found it to be wonderful because you really do get what you pay for. the same will hold true for purchasing the clie. it will take more work on some of the background technical issues, but the experience of using the product for the long haul is worth the extra expense and effort at the beginning. don't settle, get the best. (end of sermon):D

And a lovely sermon it is. ;)

However (and you knew that was coming!), I have a problem with companies that make their products very proprietary. For example: memory sticks instead of standard memory formats, proprietary changes to the OS, and outward disdain (according to the accounts I've read from other Mac users) for those of us trying to "fit in" to their world and still play by our own rules. Yes, I'm somewhat of an idealist, but I really don't see a good reason for Sony to shun Mac users. I just don't understand that mentality coming from such a large and successful company. Even Microsoft tries to accomodate Mac users.

Oh, and what's the "pay the extra" have to do w/ moving to the Mac platform? I feel that we got quite a bargain w/ the iMac G4 compared to what we would have to pay for a comparable PC.

And that's the end of *my* sermon. :-)

Oh yes, and more on topic, there's no way to make the Mac ignore the MP3 commands w/out Missing Sync? Are you sure? I've heard of others who have synced w/out it using Palm Desktop & Entourage conduit.

Love,

Mom :cool:

[parmesian]

Originally posted by MomToGo
And a lovely sermon it is. ;)
thank you, i'm thinking of turning pro:p
Originally posted by MomToGo
Yes, I'm somewhat of an idealist, but I really don't see a good reason for Sony to shun Mac users. I just don't understand that mentality coming from such a large and successful company. Even Microsoft tries to accomodate Mac users.
there is no good reason except percentage wise in makes little sense to put work into something that makes up only 3-5% of the market. there is not much forward thinking at sony because if there was they would put a great deal of effort into the mac connection. we are a community who is loyal and typically has a higher spending level. just ask the microsloth group. they have devoted a whole section of their company to us because they finally saw the light, however, there was a time, in the not so distant past, when they were no very forthcoming for mac users.
Originally posted by MomToGo
Oh, and what's the "pay the extra" have to do w/ moving to the Mac platform? I feel that we got quite a bargain w/ the iMac G4 compared to what we would have to pay for a comparable PC.
i couldn't agree more. it is the same way with the clie. it cost more, but you get more.
Originally posted by MomToGo
Oh yes, and more on topic, there's no way to make the Mac ignore the MP3 commands w/out Missing Sync? Are you sure? I've heard of others who have synced w/out it using Palm Desktop & Entourage conduit.
i can't tell you from personal experience. i can only tell you what i have experienced. i was skeptical about missing sync, but took a chance with the purchase and have been happy ever since (they really should offer a trial download. it would increase their sales significantly).

in the end you have to make up your mind about it. i am sure you will be happy with either choice because both of the choices are fine machines - i just think the clie is a finer machine.;)

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by parmesian
just ask the microsloth group. they have devoted a whole section of their company to us because they finally saw the light, however, there was a time, in the not so distant past, when they were no very forthcoming for mac users.
Careful there ... I used to be one of those people you would get on the phone when you dialed their 800 number. I supported both platforms for Excel, and we were quite dedicated to making both populations happy. I have to say, though, that probably 90% of the calls I got from Mac users had to do with printing issues. Everything else usually ended up being a conflict with some shareware they had installed. :)
in the end you have to make up your mind about it. i am sure you will be happy with either choice because both of the choices are fine machines - i just think the clie is a finer machine.;)
The Clie is definitely the more aesthetically pleasing of the two. However, I'm a woman of principles. :rolleyes: I think I'm just going to have to order the darn thing and hope it works. I'm just irritated that it's likely to be one of those purchases that just keeps costing me more money.

Mom :)

[parmesian]

Originally posted by MomToGo

Careful there ... I used to be one of those people you would get on the phone when you dialed their 800 number. I supported both platforms for Excel, and we were quite dedicated to making both populations happy. I have to say, though, that probably 90% of the calls I got from Mac users had to do with printing issues. Everything else usually ended up being a conflict with some shareware they had installed. :)

:D that's too funny. i used to be one of the people you would get on the phone when you dialed the apple 800 number. however, that was nearly 10 years ago, so my memory of things is really no indication of the way things have been recently or are today. today i am very happy with ms office. i just wish they would make entourage exchange server compatible. i've heard it's coming, but it will probably be limited.

good luck on the purchase. i'm sure you won't be sorry!:p

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by parmesian

:D that's too funny. i used to be one of the people you would get on the phone when you dialed the apple 800 number. however, that was nearly 10 years ago, so my memory of things is really no indication of the way things have been recently or are today.

Funny? That's amazing! Especially since my stint w/ MS was about 10 years ago, too. Back when they came out w/ Win3.1 and Excel 3.0. So, you can imagine how out of touch I feel w/ all the technical issues now. At least I know enough to get around. :)

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm still waiting on some other info before I decide what to do.

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by parmesian

:D that's too funny. i used to be one of the people you would get on the phone when you dialed the apple 800 number. however, that was nearly 10 years ago, so my memory of things is really no indication of the way things have been recently or are today.

Funny? That's amazing! Especially since my stint w/ MS was about 10 years ago, too. Back when they came out w/ Win3.1 and Excel 3.0. So, you can imagine how out of touch I feel w/ all the technical issues now. At least I know enough to get around. :)

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm still waiting on some other info before I decide what to do.

[Mastervtec]

Originally posted by parmesian


as for the upgrades of the os, sony hasn't charged for one that i can remember, but they don't come out with them as often as palm does because they have to wait for palm to put theirs out and then sony adds their propritory stuff. it only makes sense to do this for big upgrades. they do, however, provide os patches for problems.



Sony wanted to charge me $65 to upgrade my N710 from os 3.5.2 to OS 4.1!!! I said screw you and did it the illegal way, ohhh and I feel so bad for it............NOT!!!!

[MomToGo]

Hello folks ...

I'm back and am about to begin the migration from my Handspring Visor to my brand spanking new Clie T665C. Yup ... bought it yesterday and finally have a measly 45 minutes to get things installed and set up.

By the way, in case you didn't check the sale papers yesterday, CompUSA is selling these T665s for $229. An especially good bargain since they are being replaced w/ the Remote Commanderless SJ33.

Wish me luck ... I'm going to try & sync w/out Missing Sync. :D

Love,

Mom

[maxfish]

why did you decide on that instead of the SJ33?

[Mastervtec]

$70 Cheaper, Hello!!

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by Mastervtec
$70 Cheaper, Hello!!

Exactly! :D I'm always on the lookout for a good buy, and it's basically the same PDA with a slightly different "wrapper." It also comes w/ the Remote Commander (a universal remote control for A/V equipment) and the SJ33 doesn't.

So far, I am quite happy w/ my new Clie. It syncs wonderfully using Missing Sync along w/ OSX 10.1.5, Palm Desktop 4.0 and Entourage X (using the Microsoft conduit). The only drawback I've found so far is that the DateBook application that came with it isn't as "robust" as the one that was on my Handspring Visor. Trying to figure out how to move the app over, but it was preinstalled. Hmmm ... gotta go fidget with it.

Love,

Mom

[parmesian]

the date book from the visor was a modified version of datebk that handspring licensed from pimlico software. i haven't heard of anyone getting it to move from one machine to the other, but it's worth a try. if it doesn't work you can get datebk from palmgear (http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=58537936-65B6-4E08-A461AB04C4F1651E&prodID=41649)

good luck:D

[MomToGo]

Originally posted by parmesian
if it doesn't work you can get datebk from palmgear (http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=58537936-65B6-4E08-A461AB04C4F1651E&prodID=41649)

Is this the same datebook that's already installed on the Clie? The one thing that I miss the most, and I'm not sure it's associated w/ the datebook, is the ability to snooze alarms for a particular amount of time. I'm not fond of the list that pops up w/ only the ability to snooze for a few minutes.

I also miss the floating appointments w/ the option to mark them "done."

I'll check out the Palm version. I've been unable to isolate the Datebook+ file that is on the Visor, and they don't appear to have a download on their web site. I'm guessing they want to keep it to themselves. :rolleyes:

[parmesian]

no, date book on the clie is just the regular palm date book. datebk (http://www.datebk.com) from pimlico is a much more full featured program that let's you do all the things you were used to on the visor and then some. i don't use it myself. i use agendus (http://www.agendus.com) because it replaces both the date book and the address book with a much more robust feature set and it allows linking of contacts to appointments.

you can snooze alarms on both datebk and agendus. so it's just a matter of personal preference. most people try both and find the one that works for them. i suspect you will find going with datebk the way to go because of it's familiarity.;)