More Tungsten T5 Details

[Reggie]

Our trusted anonymous source has provided us new information on the upcoming Tungsten T5. [details (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=515)]

[PatrickS]

Obviously no WiFi, but any word on WiFi SDIO card compatibility?

[Reggie]

Obviously no WiFi, but any word on WiFi SDIO card compatibility?
I am almost sure that it is compatible.

[Reggie]

I would say that the T5 was made to show Garnet. It's just simply a T3 with the new Garnet features.

[hamsammich]

No WiFi or voice recorder...what in the he** is PalmOne thinking?
:mad:

[PatrickS]

I would say that the T5 was made to show Garnet. It's just simply a T3 with the new Garnet features.Maybe so, but it is a pretty poor showing given that the T3 will be a year old by the time they release the T5. The competition is moving much, much faster than this. Clearly, the Tungsten|T product family merits a scant amount of resources within the company.

[Integrity]

Trusted source eh??? You guys botched with the T5 photos before so call me cynical if I take the word "trusted" coming from this site as reliable!
That being said, you guys did apologize, but I was hopeful you'd be more careful in the future. :P

[orol]

heh, if this is true, palm is really doomed. no os6, no wifi, ehm even no voice recorder? come on palm ..

[hamsammich]

Exactly, Orol. If that is it for their "big lineup" for this fall, they are in serious trouble...I see their financial outlook as being very grim.

[Gero]

I dont see the big deal here... as far as i am concerned this thing blows my crappy T3 out the water!! OK, its not OS 6 but then that will be out in 3 odd months..

- It will be faster than my T3 which is slow considering (3 to 4 second to open docs to go?.. my 128 mh 1993 laptopp opens word quicker)

- It has expandability - yes Ok, my T3 has expansion card support, but seeing as we all plauge our handhelds with load of apps I'm often in a situation where i plug a card in with a movie on it only to find that mmPlayer is on the other 'everyday' SD card - You cant substitute internal memory with SD cards ever.

- Its got a better battery life than my T3 which as we all knows sucks!

- the data will surveive a hard reset - FINALLY... wont have to bother with those silly annoying back up programmes which you either forget to use or set to work daily and then cancel as its bloody going iduring a meeting when someone is asking you for someones contact details

- It will act as a plug and play flash drive - again FINALLY!!!! one more software category i can delete off my handheld!!

- drag and dropm file transfer...

etc etc....

I mean cummon guys... what are you all complaining about?... this is a good device.. so it doesnt have wifi.. well outside of the US thats not a big deal as less than 1% of palm users will care... Those small number of users that do use it will be happy with the wifi card i'm sure..

I think i'd be proud to own this device...

[zackepceo]

I scoffed when PalmSource said they released 6.1.... do you want to know why? Not one
******* company has made ONE device with Palm OS 6.0 even. It is evident that Palm does not care about people who use Palm OS over PocketPC because of the simplicity, only the ones rich enough to afford what is at most a redesign. Sony did the same thing, but they innovated, because every month or two, a new one was out. Market founders are not shielded from bankrupcy, PalmOne. LISTEN!

[NJL!2016]

I don't know, this could be my next PDA! I'm not really into WiFi, and I can go a whole day without going on the internet.

[zackepceo]

I dont see the big deal here... as far as i am concerned this thing blows my crappy T3 out the water!! OK, its not OS 6 but then that will be out in 3 odd months..

- It will be faster than my T3 which is slow considering (3 to 4 second to open docs to go?.. my 128 mh 1993 laptopp opens word quicker)

- It has expandability - yes Ok, my T3 has expansion card support, but seeing as we all plauge our handhelds with load of apps I'm often in a situation where i plug a card in with a movie on it only to find that mmPlayer is on the other 'everyday' SD card - You cant substitute internal memory with SD cards ever.

- Its got a better battery life than my T3 which as we all knows sucks!

- the data will surveive a hard reset - FINALLY... wont have to bother with those silly annoying back up programmes which you either forget to use or set to work daily and then cancel as its bloody going iduring a meeting when someone is asking you for someones contact details

- It will act as a plug and play flash drive - again FINALLY!!!! one more software category i can delete off my handheld!!

- drag and dropm file transfer...

etc etc....

I mean cummon guys... what are you all complaining about?... this is a good device.. so it doesnt have wifi.. well outside of the US thats not a big deal as less than 1% of palm users will care... Those small number of users that do use it will be happy with the wifi card i'm sure..

I think i'd be proud to own this device...
The big deal is just that- it's not a big deal. They make us wait a good year or so, and we get a $249 device that will be at least $399. The Fujitsu Pocket Loox is looking very good right about now, and I don't think I'm alone in that thought.

[NJL!2016]

Although some PPCs look nice, I'll never go to the "dark side." I have WAY too much money invested in software, and I don't want to buy more if I go PPC

[hamsammich]

I dont see the big deal here... as far as i am concerned this thing blows my crappy T3 out the water!! OK, its not OS 6 but then that will be out in 3 odd months..

1) Most likely, PalmOne won't offer a Cobalt upgrade for the T|5 or Treo 650.
2) Speed? Ok, so it's faster. My Tungsten E does what I want it to do in a very expedient manner. No biggie for most people.
3) Expandability? SD cards offer expandability. So you don't get the fastest transfer rate running from an SD card. Big deal. You can save the money and stick with an SD card. I never ran out of space, especially when I had a 64MB handheld.
4) We don't know it has better battery life. At this point, that is assumed.
5) What if the application that's causing the problem with your handheld is in this "hard-reset-proof" memory? It is still present after a hard reset.
6) I'll give you the removable drive thingy. That IS a good feature that should have been present a long time ago. Yet, CardExport II is available, and does the same thing.
7) Drag and drop file transfer: see #6.

WiFi not a big deal? I think you'd better check your sources again. Pocket PC's with wireless (WiFi) capabilities are selling very well, and WiFi is being included in virtually all new Pocket PC's. Apparently someone thinks WiFi is important...at least in the other camp. Using a WiFi card takes up a vital SD card slot and dramatically impacts battery life. What if you have an important application on your SD card that you would use with wireless? How can you use both the WiFi card and the SD card at one time? Not to mention, the WiFi card (if it isn't bundled with the T|5) is $129...that is $129 on top of the $400 you just spent on the T|5.

Hey, I'm not saying that most of the features the T|5 is supposed to have are bad, I'm just saying that they don't make up for a lackluster PDA. Wireless should be standard. The technology is becoming insanely cheap. What about a voice recorder? Do you think the business persons who use that on a daily basis are going to pocket the T|5 if that is not included? Not on your life.

And, to top it all off, what about Palm OS 6.1 Cobalt? The operating system PalmSource has been bragging about for a year now is probably not going to be on the T|5. What gives? What happens in six months when it is available? Do you think PalmOne is going to rush to offer a free or even reduced price OS upgrade? Probably not.

I've been reading the arguments all afternoon, and regardless of PalmOne's current monetary ability or blah, blah, blah...they should take example from what's currently being offered to the PPC crowd: built-in WiFi and bluetooth nearly standard, VGA...

Ok. That's my rant. Only one man's apparent opinion of the state of things Palm. Does this mean I won't buy a T|5? Not necessarily. It depends on how bad I want a new PDA at the time it's released. Otherwise, I'll find a NIB TH55 to pacify me until next year.

[zackepceo]

I couldn't go to the dark side, not until they have something comparable to Hotsync. Help us Tapwave, you're our only hope!

[Gekko]

Just for shiits and giggles, compare these specs to the alleged T5:

Dell X50v - High Configuration
Processor Type Bulverde XScale Processor PXA270 624MHz
RAM Memory 64MB
ROM Memory 128MB
Display 3.7" VGA Transflective Touchscreen (TFT)
Support for Dual Display
Graphics Companion Chip Intel 2700G (Marathon w/extended memory)
I/O Slots 1 Secure Digital (SD/MMC/SDIO) Slot
1 Compact Flash Type II (CF) Slot
Infrared Standard v1.2 (115kbps)
Internal Microphone Yes
Audio Out 1 Speaker
1 Stereo Headphone Jack (3.5mm)
Bluetooth Integrated Bluetooth 1.2 class II
802.11b Integrated
Synchronization Cradle
Operating System Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Hi-Capacity Battery 2200 mAh
Dimensions 119 x 73 x 15.9 mm
4.69 x 2.87 x 0.626 in.
Weight 140g / 4.9 oz
$499 MSRP
Launch Date October 1, 2004

[The Palmster]

I don't know guys...This new T5 seems like a pretty nice machine to me. I agree with Gero's comments. Add to that, the sleek design of the original Tungsten T|E and a 320x480 display, landscape or portrait mode, and I think I just found the perfect replacement for my Palm M515.

I can understand why those of you looking to upgrade from the T3 may be dissappointed but don't you want more than just one year's worth of use from your handheld? I think palmOne may have been thinking of all those Palm M5x users out there which are now ready to upgrade and this unit is perfect for them. All of my colleagues who use Palms are keeping them for at least two years. Heck...my youngest brother in university is still using the Palm M100!!

You have to remember that hard core Palm users do not represent the marketplace. My guess is that market research has indicated that users expect 2-3 years from their handhelds. THEREFORE, the Tungsten T5 was made for the M5x series users who are now ready to upgrade NOT for the Tungsten T3 users who are unlikely to buy a new machine no matter what palmOne offers.

Those are my thoughts.

[zackepceo]

I don't think that this is aimed at m5xx owners any more than the other PDAs Palmone sells.

[hamsammich]

Again, I can't say the features that are new don't impress me, it's just that the features that should be in the T|5 aren't there. I like the T|E form factor, button layout, etc. so that's not a big problem. 320x480 or 480x320 is great, too. 128MB or 256MB (whichever it will have) of nonvolatile memory is cool, too. Mount the PDA as a drive on your PC? Very nice.

I am thankful PalmOne decided to implement even these features. Really, I am. It's just that they could have easily implemented the other few things most users wanted. The kicker, to me, is that they still will most likely charge $400 for this. WTF? The Dell X50 is looking more and more enticing.

[Selachii]

I can't believe how terribly slow PalmOne is developing it's products. It's like they only improve on things people have suggested/tried and proven in the past....
When I read the details, more then half of it's features (!=specs) is allready WIDELY available on other product(ranges)...of 2 years old...

honestly, this is not a NEW product, this is a 'improved' product. Wich is not a bad thing on itself, BUT it's not a thing that keeps a company afloat. They could've just named it Tungsten T3 Mk2 (wich is even more fashionable atm!)
I also don't like the 'pocketpc' look they're heading for. I'm all for sliderless, full metal shells, don't get me wrong. This thing, however, still looks like something from an 80's Bgrade sci-fi series.

The flash memory really is a great feature, and I encourage all other manufacterers to follow the example.

I guess, somewhere deep inside I hope palmOne will announce another 'series' with truely innovative design and feature (wich ofcourse it won't, there's no cashcow there, and never going to be.). The targeted market for the T5 is obviously the standard PIM-user... still they try to be more, but just by half of it..

It looks dull and aged, the features don't make up for it. I'm not gonna say "it's what the T3 should've been" coz T3 really was a milestone with the HiRes screen, BT and all. But this T5 is no more then an upgrade of that milestone, it's not a new one.

just my €0.2

[KongK]

Zakcepceo is not alone in looking for an PPC alternative. I've been holding out from upgrading my old palm for new Cobalt devices, but if this is the best P1 has to offered, I may very well start looking for a PPC.

If I wanted a good Garnet device, I'd have brought the TH (you have no idea how hard it was to resist getting one when it was announced!).

In case anyone think this is a troll for PPC, all my 7 PDAs are palmos devices. I've been championing Palms in my office over PPC. Geez, my first Pilot Pro was stamped with a USR logo...

Gero,
If you think the OS6 will be out in 3 months time, you may well be dissapointed. If there's not even one Cobalt devices available after almost a year it's announced, I'd wouldn't hold my breath waiting for OS6 upgrades or devices.

[Reggie]

Trusted source eh??? You guys botched with the T5 photos before so call me cynical if I take the word "trusted" coming from this site as reliable!
That being said, you guys did apologize, but I was hopeful you'd be more careful in the future. :P
We are careful. When the incident happened, we tried harder and chose the sources to believe. We write articles to inform and not to mislead. That's why we took it hard when TungstenInfo played the trick on us. "Die-hard PalmOS fanatics" ;) come to this site. The site earns a small revenue for the support. We owe providing good information in return.

[bisenn]

As our friend Gero so aptly pointed out , this is a fine device. I don't know what percentage of the Palm market I represent but this is exactly what I am looking for. I am an automation engineer and most of my work as far as my handheld is concerned is the normal PIM activities, word and excel files, some drawing programs, and financial and security software. My email and the occasional web excursion are adequatly dealt with by my bluetooth enabled phone and the bluetooth access points located in my workplace and home. The enhancments enumerated on the T5 are right in line with my needs. I feel that for a large segment of Palm's users this will be a real hit!

[Joel]

Trusted source eh??? You guys botched with the T5 photos before so call me cynical if I take the word "trusted" coming from this site as reliable!
That being said, you guys did apologize, but I was hopeful you'd be more careful in the future. :P
We got it wrong with TungstenInfo (and so did other sites). BUT we got it right ever since with this thread (http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67262), about 18 days ago, based on our trusted source.

[Integrity]

It's starting to sound like the Palm Apologists are in fact Palm employees on the board doing damage control...:)

[Starken]

Gekko,

How do you know the price and release date of the X50? I agree with just about everything you have posted about the T5 on this forum.

The T5 should be called the E2 and sold for $199 if they want to sell a significant number. How can Palm say it is an upgrade to the T3 and not have a voice recorder, which even the Zire 72 has. Geez, You can even get a Zire 72 for $199 now after the rebates from Palm and Staples. This T5 situation is like a nightmare for me because I have been patiently waiting for almost a year for an update of the TC or the T3. My m130 is on its last legs and I need to upgrade to something with WiFi, and I hate to say it but X50 here I come.

[Joel]

It's starting to sound like the Palm Apologists are in fact Palm employees on the board doing damage control...:) LOL. Strangely, I felt that too. Thanks for still visiting 1src, Integrity. ;)

[Brian2]

LOL. Strangely, I felt that too. Thanks for still visiting 1src, Integrity. ;)

Well, don't have to. A device like this with a $399 price tag won't hurt either t|e or T3 sales.

[Integrity]

Hey Joel, I was a little disappointed, but everyone deserves a second chance. :)
No, but seriously I was more ticked at Palm than you guys and I really hope it turns out looking more along the lines of that first hoax.
All in all you guys are doing a great job and I hope you stick around for a long time.
Sorry again for the flame.

[Bobbert]

I don't think the T5 will have built-in WiFi.
Everyone seems so fixated on WiFi because we all want it. But think about it from PalmOne's perspective. They are going to release, we suppose, a $400 palm with some nifty new features like better integrated landscape/portrait, hires+, better battery, more (flash/NAND?) memory, etc.

Now as a product manager, I can either sell it for, say, just under $500 with built-in WiFi or I can sell it for $400 with WiFi as an SD card option. I'm thinking that hard-core Palm fans will hate the decision, but PalmOne will win market-wide with this strategy. Remember that when you add case, keyboard, screen protectors, extra cradle or cables, software, etc. the price jumps up pretty high already. I think they are worried they will price themselves out of the bulk of the market. I would be worried about that also. Not to mention the extra battery drain and consequent complaints because default would almost certainly have to be WiFi on.
So... if my reasoning holds any water it supports the rumors. No built-in WiFi yet.
(Just one thought. And if it makes you feel any better, I am aching for them to build it in. I just don't think it will happen until it has better smaller and cheaper chip support.)

[SonyStyle]

this design isnt going to sell unless its priced at 199. it just doens't look good. i think it should really be called the tunnngsten E2. i mean really. with sony leaving the market, palm is not being innovative.

[Reggie]

I think it will sell too. Current T3 (or Clie high-end) owners might not upgrade but it is a more complete, more user-friendly out-of-the-box for new Palm owners. They won't need WiFi maybe immediately but it will be good news for the, that they can add-on WiFi.

In any case, new T5 owners will find their way, join and post questions here in 1SRC. Let's just welcome them and share with them our experiences.

As for WiFi, let's just wait for Cobalt. PalmSource has announced WiFi support for Cobalt anyway. So does VGA support. Yum. :D

[PatrickS]

It's starting to sound like the Palm Apologists are in fact Palm employees on the board doing damage control...:)Interesting. I wonder if the almost unanimous negative reception to the T5 is having any sort of impact in the P1 boardrooms?

[hamsammich]

I certainly hope so. I mean, if we can see some PalmOne employees posting here on occasion, then they certainly report back what's being said here.
It's a shame that, as it stands now, that feedback didn't get into the T|5.
:(

[fillg2002]

I have been an observer of this 1src forums for over a year. I have also been a long time palm fan, I am a current M130 owner, with a dying battery. I have been nursing it along for almost 6 months in anticipation that PalmOne would finally get in the game and add WiFi to one of its devices. I agree with many of you, that P1 has made a major miscalculation by not implementing WiFi in more if not all of its new devices. I purchased a Sony Clie TJ37 but took it back unopened because of the lack of available acessories (keyboard) in August. I am really dissapointed with P1! I can only hope that the rumored specs are wrong or there are more devices than rumored. Otherwise if my battery craps out IM OUT TOO! An Axim with wifi would be cheaper than investing in a palm and a wifi card. As a marketing student myself, PalmOne should value its current customer base, we are cheaper to market to than new customers, but tick us off and we may be gone FOREVER.

SORRY PALMONE GET A CLUE!

-Phillip

[Superhob]

Joel and Reggie, do you or your source have any information about the battery?

It seems one of the only things still unknown about the T5 is the battery capacity and life.

[Jukov]

ok lets see : my T3 vs New TE2 (as I can't call it a T5)

256MB flash memory (160MB internal flash drive, 55MB program memory for applications and data) - don't need this as I have a 512 sd card

Transfer files and folders back and forth the desktop - don't need this as I have Card export II

Use like a flash drive with another computer (host computer must support standard USB removable drive) - as above

320x480 display, landscape or portrait mode - Have it

Edit Word and Excel docs, view PowerPoint files, view Acrobat PDFs with a simple conversion step - have it, plus use RepliGo

View photos, videos and play MP3s
Carry your tunes with you on the road
Transfer music files and photos from your desktop to your handheld
Create a digital album for photos and video clips (some files require conversion)- have it

Find information fast
Favorites view and Files application lets you find stuff fast
Files, folders, and applications are within easy reach when you turn it on- zLauncher which is now 4.3 but by the 15th will be 5.0 with more plugins as Today, etc.

Built-in Bluetooth wireless technology - have it

Sync with your desktop computer - come on!!!

Use a Bluetooth compatible phone as your modem - have it

Send and receive email, browse the web, and send text messages (mobile service required) -have it

Powerful Intel 416MHz XScale processor - have it

Palm OS 5.4 - THE BIG DEAL ;)

Included Software
palmOne Desktop 4.1 Windows and Mac (Expense, Note Pad and palmOne Media extensions Windows only)
palmOne File Transfer (Windows only)
Microsoft Outlook Conduits (Windows only)
Phone Link Updater
palmOne Quick Install (Windows only)
DataViz Documents To Go Desktop and conduit (Windows only)
Send to Handheld Droplet (Mac only) - no big deal!!

MY conclusion: P1! Buy it yourself, as you will be the only customer

[Odessa]

ok lets see : my T3 vs New TE2 (as I can't call it a T5)

256MB flash memory (160MB internal flash drive, 55MB program memory for applications and data) - don't need this as I have a 512 sd card

Transfer files and folders back and forth the desktop - don't need this as I have Card export II

Use like a flash drive with another computer (host computer must support standard USB removable drive) - as above

320x480 display, landscape or portrait mode - Have it

Edit Word and Excel docs, view PowerPoint files, view Acrobat PDFs with a simple conversion step - have it, plus use RepliGo

View photos, videos and play MP3s
Carry your tunes with you on the road
Transfer music files and photos from your desktop to your handheld
Create a digital album for photos and video clips (some files require conversion)- have it

Find information fast
Favorites view and Files application lets you find stuff fast
Files, folders, and applications are within easy reach when you turn it on- zLauncher which is now 4.3 but by the 15th will be 5.0 with more plugins as Today, etc.

Built-in Bluetooth wireless technology - have it

Sync with your desktop computer - come on!!!

Use a Bluetooth compatible phone as your modem - have it

Send and receive email, browse the web, and send text messages (mobile service required) -have it

Powerful Intel 416MHz XScale processor - have it

Palm OS 5.4 - THE BIG DEAL ;)

Included Software
palmOne Desktop 4.1 Windows and Mac (Expense, Note Pad and palmOne Media extensions Windows only)
palmOne File Transfer (Windows only)
Microsoft Outlook Conduits (Windows only)
Phone Link Updater
palmOne Quick Install (Windows only)
DataViz Documents To Go Desktop and conduit (Windows only)
Send to Handheld Droplet (Mac only) - no big deal!!

MY conclusion: P1! Buy it yourself, as you will be the only customer

Sad, but true. On a positive note, I do not own P1 stock. :D

[PatrickS]

Right on, Jukov.

Seriously, folks, if you have P1 stock, maybe in mutual funds, consider the chain of events that might happen over the next few days:

1. Overwhelming negative reception to the T5 appears on the enthusiast boards
2. Reviewers pick up on it and report it as part of their "T5 Launch" review.
3. Investors read the reviews and get worried that it wont just be the enthusiasts who take a pass on the new device.
4. Some fraction of them sell, putting downward pressure on the stock price.

Am I overestimating the power of the forums? Maybe. But I also do not own any P1 stock today, and I wont own any tomorrow either, I can promise you that.

[Alsicole]

- Its got a better battery life than my T3 which as we all knows sucks!

I don't see any battery size or life quote in any of the rumour threads. Unless this thing is going to run at least as long as the Tungsten C, I'm going to trade in for one of those instead.

[Alsicole]

"Use a bluetooth compatible mobile phone as a modem"

Yeah, but only if you have a mobile phone that's about a year old because Palm are so totally lame about releasing PhoneLink drivers. I had a Nokia 6600, I now have a Siemens SX1, both phones have been out for almost a year in Europe (that's in stores). Palm still doesn't have a driver for either of them. The only phone I own that's compatible with my Palm is a Siemens SL55, and I have to use Infrared with that! Subsequently I pick up my e-mail and browse the internet using my SX1 and Bluetooth on my HP Ipaq 4150!!!!!

Do PalmOne believe that I'm the only one who has looked at PPC devices or is already using one? If they do, they're kidding themselves.

[Adrenochrome]

- It has expandability - yes Ok, my T3 has expansion card support, but seeing as we all plauge our handhelds with load of apps I'm often in a situation where i plug a card in with a movie on it only to find that mmPlayer is on the other 'everyday' SD card - You cant substitute internal memory with SD cards ever.Sure you can. I have a 1gig card in my T2 which frankly blows away the T5's 256mb. I have only one card so it's always in there and I'm never at a loss.

- the data will surveive a hard reset - FINALLY... wont have to bother with those silly annoying back up programmes which you either forget to use or set to work daily and then cancel as its bloody going iduring a meeting when someone is asking you for someones contact details I've never had a problem restoring my T2 just from the computer after a hard reset. Never. And just to make sure, I have a freeware backup program anyhow.

- It will act as a plug and play flash drive - again FINALLY!!!! one more software category i can delete off my handheld!!

- drag and dropm file transfer... Again, I use some freeware to accomplish this same thing.

I mean cummon guys... what are you all complaining about?... this is a good device.. so it doesnt have wifi.. well outside of the US thats not a big deal as less than 1% of palm users will care... Those small number of users that do use it will be happy with the wifi card i'm sure..

I think i'd be proud to own this device...I would like to use Wifi, and a card is not acceptable. You can't pocket a device with a card sticking out of it, and portablilty is the name of the game here. I need to pull it out and be connected, not pull it out, search for my Wifi card, insert it, check that it's working, then connect. Sorry, but that speed and portability is the whole reason I use a PDA instead of a laptop.

And the point is that they're charging $400 for something that the competition sells for half that. Cripes, the Zodiac has been out for how long and has 128mb, dual SD slots and more.

[Adrenochrome]

Oh well. That's too bad. I was looking forward to the T5 as an upgrade, but it's more like a side-grade. The only good news I can see is that there might be a faint hope of an OS 5.4 upgrade for current Tungsten owners.

[palmhiker]

Wow, this is certainly disappointing.

I can see absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to this device from my T-C. The bigger screen would be nice, but everything else except stereo audio would essentially be a downgrade, and at a ridiculously high price.

How embarrassing for Palmsource that palmOne is not using the new OS on this device, there must be major issues with OS6.

At this point, I will probably live with my T-C for at least another year. I know some folks don't need built in Wi-Fi, but after having it on the C, I simply will NOT purchase another handheld without it, and I would also prefer to have Bluetooth built in.

Give me the new Dell VGA hardware running Palm OS and that would be my perfect handheld.

Oh well, maybe Tapwave will come through for us next year...

[LexLuther]

This whole T5 thread has got to be a joke. Next week when the TE2 comes out and the T5 (with the 1src wishlist! ) comes out we will all breathe a sigh of relief. As someone said on another forum, Palm cannot be that out of touch. They are just going to teach us a lesson here, I am praying.

I certainly agree with everyone's comments on the pedestrian mooted specs. The idea of the 256mb as a way to carry your files around from computer to computer is laughable. I have a 2gb flash drive that sits in my pocket and travels everywhere...why do I need a measly 256mb as a "briefcase"? :rolleyes:

Anyway, something smells bad in all of this and I think that we are being toyed with. I also notice alot of silence from some regulars in the last day or two. The " I can neither confirm nor deny" stance is obviously best enacted by silence.

Lx



Well, I should pour another glass of exceptional Aussie Barossa Shiraz and check out the PPC sites for a new wifi-enabled pda. Mnnnnn. :eek:

[alexasha]

What is a big deal about OS 5.4?
I am a sony NX70 user and was waiting for T5, but now I will need to look at X50. Very Sad!!!!!

[compabc]

I think many of you T3 fans are missing the point.

Tungsten E has sold more than Tungsten T3. Sorry I don't have sales stat links to backup this claim right now, but you guys have a premonition that it's true. Nothing beats entry-level in terms of sales, such as the original Zire outselling any Tungsten ever. TE is ranked as the best selling PDA on many websites including Amazon.com.

Because of this important aspect, T5 was changed to a TE design. PalmOne probably hopes that it will cause the high end T5's to sell like hotcakes. Also, don't forget that the T5 design is designed based on classiest Palm of all, the Palm V. That in itself attracts old time monochrome Palm users to upgrade. Palm is hoping form-factor will make these devices sell.

I am only dismayed by its $400 price ------ it really should be in the $300 (or less) for the features it's giving us. My frame of reference for making such an assertion is Pocket PC models ------- like a $300 Dell Axim can give me dual wireless, but a $400 Tungsten T5 can't? That doesn't make sense.

[Adrenochrome]

I think many of you T3 fans are missing the point.

Tungsten E has sold more than Tungsten T3. Sorry I don't have sales stat links to backup this claim right now, but you guys have a premonition that it's true. Nothing beats entry-level in terms of sales, such as the original Zire outselling any Tungsten ever. TE is ranked as the best selling PDA on many websites including Amazon.com.

Because of this important aspect, T5 was changed to a TE design. PalmOne probably hopes that it will cause the high end T5's to sell like hotcakes. Also, don't forget that the T5 design is designed based on classiest Palm of all, the Palm V. That in itself attracts old time monochrome Palm users to upgrade. Palm is hoping form-factor will make these devices sell.

I am only dismayed by its $400 price ------ it really should be in the $300 (or less) for the features it's giving us. My frame of reference for making such an assertion is Pocket PC models ------- like a $300 Dell Axim can give me dual wireless, but a $400 Tungsten T5 can't? That doesn't make sense.
Bingo. I have no problem with this as a nice $199 PDA. It's a replacement for the TE. But why pay $400 for this when you can get so much more for less elsewhere?

[Jukov]

This whole T5 thread has got to be a joke. Next week when the TE2 comes out and the T5 (with the 1src wishlist! ) comes out we will all breathe a sigh of relief. As someone said on another forum, Palm cannot be that out of touch. They are just going to teach us a lesson here, I am praying.


I am so ready for my lesson - plz plz teach me one. I'm even ready to be spanked :D :D :D :D :D

[darmok]

Bingo. I have no problem with this as a nice $199 PDA. It's a replacement for the TE. But why pay $400 for this when you can get so much more for less elsewhere?

I don't think $199 is the right price for this either. But somewhere between $300 and $350 might be. There are very few other competitors in the $199 price point, and all are QVGA or 320x320 units with limited storage.

[palmhiker]

This whole T5 thread has got to be a joke. Next week when the TE2 comes out and the T5 (with the 1src wishlist! ) comes out we will all breathe a sigh of relief. As someone said on another forum, Palm cannot be that out of touch. They are just going to teach us a lesson here, I am praying.

You are very likley correct. This unit make sense as an E2, although at $400, it will be a tough sale to that target market.

However, after following Palm for a number of years, I don't have a whole lot of trouble believing they are that out of touch, were it not for PPC and Sony, Palm would likely still be selling an m515, but with a "state of the art" built-in 256MB flash drive for $400...

[Adrenochrome]

I don't think $199 is the right price for this either. But somewhere between $300 and $350 might be. There are very few other competitors in the $199 price point, and all are QVGA or 320x320 units with limited storage.Nah. You've got the Zodiac 1 at $299, and while that only has 64mb, it has two SD slots. You could pop in a 512mb card for $70 and have a far more capable machine than the T5.

And that's just on the Palm OS side...

[LexLuther]

Bingo. I have no problem with this as a nice $199 PDA. It's a replacement for the TE. But why pay $400 for this when you can get so much more for less elsewhere?

So right! The TE2 (I'm with you Jukov, I can't bear to call it a T5) at $199 would be a great successor. But look at Dell: I always figured they went by the motto "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese". If that is true then why do they pump out the pdas with integrated wifi and BT? Doesn't that make P1 the thrid mouse who will always be standing there saying, "Who moved my cheese?" My answer is "You didn't work for that cheese matey and now it is gone". Everyone has at least one high end product - Ford has its Jauguar, etc etc. But to sell a Jag as a Pinto? That is what the mooted T5 (ugh I said it!?) basically is. A great step up for my wife and her shopping list with the kids photos but otherwise....

Lx :mad:

[LexLuther]

Well, this is too much of a bytch fest for me. We are spinning our wheels. I think I need to hold my tongue (better than holding someone else's...unless it's Paris Hilton'!) until the press release.

Lx

[Adrenochrome]

Something tells me that Reggie and Joel's source is good. Those specs are written in happy PR-spin language. The only way I think there will be a surprise is if those are the specs of a TE2 and the T5 is a different beast altogether.

[LexLuther]

Something tell's me that Reggie and Joel's source is good. Those specs are written in happy PR-spin language. The only way I think there will be a surprise is if those are the specs of a TE2 and the T5 is a different beast altogether.

My point exactly!!! TE2 and a T5 with the lot. Wait for it. I bet my second born on it!

Lx :D

[bryus]

It never fails to amaze me how the 10% of Palm users who make up our community believe they know what the other 90% will buy.

How many here didn't believe the original Zire would sell at all? I know I heard plenty of complaints that it was nothing more than a warmed over three year old Palm III. I was one of those complaining. Palm went on to sell more than anyone could imagine.

Why do we expect them to cater to a small fraction of their audience when they can make mainstream products that appeal to the majority? Don't forget what happened to the cutting edge Palm hardware developers who pushed the envelope. Anyone rememeber TRG/HandEra, Handspring, Sony?

The specs are respectable I do think price will be important but we will just have to wait untill it comes out to see for sure.

For those of you compalining that you can just use your SD card instead of internal memory, remember, with the WiFi card you can't.

[Adrenochrome]

It never fails to amaze me how the 10% of Palm users who make up our community believe they know what the other 90% will buy.

How many here didn't believe the original Zire would sell at all? I know I heard plenty of complaints that it was nothing more than a warmed over three year old Palm III. I was one of those complaining. Palm went on to sell more than anyone could imagine.

Why do we expect them to cater to a small fraction of their audience when they can make mainstream products that appeal to the majority? Don't forget what happened to the cutting edge Palm hardware developers who pushed the envelope. Anyone rememeber TRG/HandEra, Handspring, Sony?

The specs are respectable I do think price will be important but we will just have to wait untill it comes out to see for sure.

For those of you compalining that you can just use your SD card instead of internal memory, remember, with the WiFi card you can't.
Who else is Palm aiming a $400 device at? I agree it's a nice device, but it's not worth $400. For $400 it had better have something more than $40 worth of extra memory built-in.

And yes, the Wifi card taking up the slot is exactly the problem! That's why we'd like to see Wifi built in, so we don't have to have that issue.

[darmok]

Nah. You've got the Zodiac 1 at $299, and while that only has 64mb, it has two SD slots. You could pop in a 512mb card for $70 and have a far more capable machine than the T5.

And that's just on the Palm OS side...

The Zodiac is large and does not have a voice recorder. This is a necessity to me and to many business users.

There weren't a lot of choices when I went shopping for a PDA that had a voice recorder, and none of the Pocket PCs particularly impressed me with regard to actual organization use. I decided on the Sony TH-55, but I'm sure that in the last month inventories of that have dwindled.

If I had a Bluetooth phone and were shopping for a PDA next week, I'd probably choose the T|5. Maybe my requirements are too narrow, but I can't help feeling that certain features (like voice recording and decent organizer capability) are worth a lot to many users.

[Adrenochrome]

The Zodiac is large and does not have a voice recorder. This is a necessity to me and to many business users.

There weren't a lot of choices when I went shopping for a PDA that had a voice recorder, and none of the Pocket PCs particularly impressed me with regard to actual organization use. I decided on the Sony TH-55, but I'm sure that in the last month inventories of that have dwindled.

If I had a Bluetooth phone and were shopping for a PDA next week, I'd probably choose the T|5. Maybe my requirements are too narrow, but I can't help feeling that certain features (like voice recording and decent organizer capability) are worth a lot to many users.
You wouldn't want the T5. It doesn't look like it has a voice recorder.

Yes, the Zodiac is large, but my point is that they packed in a lot for $299. I can't say that for the T5.

[GadgetGuru]

If the specs are right, this one's is a big disaapointment. 256 MB, yeah right, but most are used as flash memory....with SD cards so cheap and capacities so high, what's this for? 256 MB of internal memory would have been better, this is the UX's tyle of memory designation. Lame!

OS 5.4, not much of an upgrade. Everyone's waiting for the Cobalt OS for a year, and PalmOne shows a 5.4 device. What a disappointment.

The rest of the specs are been there, done that.

No Wifi at that, where were the PalmOne executives the past year, a high-end PDA needs Wifi. The casing that comes from the TE, if it's has T3's casing without the slider, it wopuld have been much classier...

The T5 looks like a midrange model through and through... PalmOne's executives are out of touch with the market, it's almost like Carl Yankowski is in charge again...

Still hoping, Palmone has a unnamed device in the works, if not, this just might make me switch to the darkside... If only the latest Sony Clie is available in the US (sure, it's Palm OS 5, but at least it offers a whole list of innovations), this own would have been relegated to bargain bins...

[Jukov]

Just a thought: what if the TE2 /aka T5/ is sold for300 $ - would you ''upgrade'' ?

[Adrenochrome]

Just a thought: what if the TE2 /aka T5/ is sold for300 $ - would you ''upgrade'' ?
No, but that's because I need built-in Wifi and a voice recorder.

But, I would think this a hohum device that should sell well enough at $300. It would sell a lot better at $249, though.

[Jukov]

Posted at brighthand.com

Win a Palm T5 PDA With Cobalt (Palm OS 6), Palm OS has become a very sophisticated system and should be easier for developers to target than previous versions. Now that a wxPalmOS port looks more achievable, the wxWidgets team is offering a T5 Tungsten PDA (the first model to feature Cobalt) for the first person to show the wxWidgets minimal sample running under Palm OS 6. Any runners-up will be offered one of several smaller prizes. Since the T5 won't be available until later in 2004, initial development will need to be done on the PalmOS 6 simulator. You can download the free development environment based on Eclipse and Cygwin. There is also copious documentation available online. So - take up the challenge today and get tooled up! There is no hard deadline but we're aiming for end of 2004. http://www.wxwidgets.org

[iboar]

Although the markets are different for PDAs and Notebook computers, you can get a lot of bang-for-the-buck in a notebook for $800 these days. Compare the bang-for-the-buck of a $800 notebook to that of any new PDAs, even the high-end models.

It is becoming more and more difficult, at least to me, to justify paying $400+ for a PDA. I think the sad fact is that most people who want a PDA are probably willing to pay between $100-$250. The PDAphiles, like those of us who belong to this forum, are really the exception. We want everything new that comes along and we will blow $400+ on a new PDA. But I doubt the average PDA owner/user could justify that expenditure because they simply are not power users.

I suspect the average PDA owner/user--not us as we here are way above average ;) --does little more with their PDA than the use it for a PIM. The slightly above average user probably listens to MP3s and perhaps uses the camera on their PDA. But only the power users will be watching video clips, running GPS navigation software, connecting to WiFi networks, et cetera. We power users are the minority and that translates into fewer sales of high-end PDAs. If companies want to sell more high-end models, they will need to deliver much more bang-for-the-buck.

[luke.skywalker]

another intersting thing :

Win a Palm T5 PDA

With Cobalt (Palm OS 6), Palm OS has become a very sophisticated system and should be easier for developers to target than previous versions. Now that a wxPalmOS port looks more achievable, the wxWidgets team is offering a T5 Tungsten PDA (the first model to feature Cobalt) for the first person to show the wxWidgets minimal sample running under Palm OS 6. Any runners-up will be offered one of several smaller prizes. Since the T5 won't be available until later in 2004, initial development will need to be done on the PalmOS 6 simulator.

You can download the free development environment based on Eclipse and Cygwin. There is also copious documentation available online.

So - take up the challenge today and get tooled up! There is no hard deadline but we're aiming for end of 2004.

http://www.wxwidgets.org


EDIT: oops, didnt see that yukov got the post.

[Jukov]

:) :) :) :)
the credit goes to you lukie luke

[PixelPusher]

I think PalmOne will offer 2 versions of the T5, once with Garnet 5.4 (mature and stable) or Cobalt 6.x (beta). This would be a good reason to release it with the huge amount of FlashRom, the Cobalt OS is still too big to fit in the space on the Tungsten T3 or Tungsten C.


What do you think?

-Eric

[Adrenochrome]

Although the markets are different for PDAs and Notebook computers, you can get a lot of bang-for-the-buck in a notebook for $800 these days. Compare the bang-for-the-buck of a $800 notebook to that of any new PDAs, even the high-end models.

It is becoming more and more difficult, at least to me, to justify paying $400+ for a PDA. I think the sad fact is that most people who want a PDA are probably willing to pay between $100-$250. The PDAphiles, like those of us who belong to this forum, are really the exception. We want everything new that comes along and we will blow $400+ on a new PDA. But I doubt the average PDA owner/user could justify that expenditure because they simply are not power users.

I suspect the average PDA owner/user--not us as we here are way above average ;) --does little more with their PDA than the use it for a PIM. The slightly above average user probably listens to MP3s and perhaps uses the camera on their PDA. But only the power users will be watching video clips, running GPS navigation software, connecting to WiFi networks, et cetera. We power users are the minority and that translates into fewer sales of high-end PDAs. If companies want to sell more high-end models, they will need to deliver much more bang-for-the-buck.
This debate has been knocked around for a long time. I own a laptop and a Palm, and I use my Palm twenty times more often than my laptop. About the only thing I use the laptop for these days is connecting to the net (something I wish I could relegate to a new PDA with Wifi!) I use my Palm for things I could never use a laptop for.

But your point that laptops with impressive hardware are coming down in price is a good point. Palm can bring out low-end PDAs all it wants, but don't go charging $400 for them.

[T5Hunger]

I think PalmOne will offer 2 versions of the T5, once with Garnet 5.4 (mature and stable) or Cobalt 6.x (beta). This would be a good reason to release it with the huge amount of FlashRom, the Cobalt OS is still too big to fit in the space on the Tungsten T3 or Tungsten C.


What do you think?

-Eric

I simply cannot imagine them doing this - from a marketing, packagaing, and support perspective this would be a nightmare. Perhaps offering an upgrade to Cobalt in the future, if it's released with Garnet ... but I really don't see a double-release like you suggest. Palm may not make the same decisions us power-users would like for their products - but they are not stupid.

[PixelPusher]

I still think it could be a good test platform for the new OS. PalmSource has got to get at least one company using Cobalt if they want to get the HW vendors on the bandwagon. Sigh ... I love the look of Cobalt, just wish I could get it.

-Eric

[volcanopele]

If the specs are right, this one's is a big disaapointment. 256 MB, yeah right, but most are used as flash memory....with SD cards so cheap and capacities so high, what's this for? 256 MB of internal memory would have been better, this is the UX's tyle of memory designation. Lame!

OS 5.4, not much of an upgrade. Everyone's waiting for the Cobalt OS for a year, and PalmOne shows a 5.4 device. What a disappointment.

The rest of the specs are been there, done that.

No Wifi at that, where were the PalmOne executives the past year, a high-end PDA needs Wifi. The casing that comes from the TE, if it's has T3's casing without the slider, it wopuld have been much classier...

The T5 looks like a midrange model through and through... PalmOne's executives are out of touch with the market, it's almost like Carl Yankowski is in charge again...

Still hoping, Palmone has a unnamed device in the works, if not, this just might make me switch to the darkside... If only the latest Sony Clie is available in the US (sure, it's Palm OS 5, but at least it offers a whole list of innovations), this own would have been relegated to bargain bins...
In many ways I agree with you. My two biggest disappointments with this device are the lack of built-in wifi or a second expansion slot (since I use the WIFI for downloading files a lot of times though the internal memory store may make this okay) and not going to Cobalt. This make me a bit weary of Cobalt if even PalmOne won't release a device with Cobalt 9 MONTHS after it was released by PalmSource. Not saying I am completely surprised but it is disappointing.

In short, I think I will take a pass on the T5 and wait till the Spring models.

[darmok]

In short, I think I will take a pass on the T5 and wait till the Spring models.

Hopefully that will include an upgrade to the Tungsten C! Imagine what they could do with a HVGA screen and a slider...

[PixelPusher]

It looks like the new highend DELL Axim isn't going to be as cheap as reported in the rumors and the wifi capability will require a CF card.

http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=52518

So everyone comparing the T5 and the A50V need to realize that it will cost $200 more!

-Eric

[Jukov]

Read the whole post! 624Mhz including VGA and WiFi for <500$ - What can I say .. if P1 throws this rumored TE2 /aka T5/ at my face , I'm affraid I'll be switching to the dark side

[palmato]

It looks like the new highend DELL Axim isn't going to be as cheap as reported in the rumors and the wifi capability will require a CF card.

http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=52518

So everyone comparing the T5 and the A50V need to realize that it will cost $200 more!

-Eric

You need to read the whole thread. Wifi will not be included in the low configuration model only, while the middle and the high will have it integrated.
Also the 499 price tag compares very well with similar models from HP, Siemens, Toshiba.

Unfortunately it runs a Windows OS. :p

[darmok]

Read the whole post! 624Mhz including VGA and WiFi for <500$ - What can I say .. if P1 throws this rumored TE2 /aka T5/ at my face , I'm affraid I'll be switching to the dark side

Um. All I can say is - if PalmOne will be throwing things in your face, you'd better press charges.

Have you ever considered that sometimes a company might release a product that's just not for you? And that maybe at some point they'll release another product that will be what you want?

[zackepceo]

FYI, Cobalt is far from a new OS. It has been out for nearly a year now, and the second version is already out. This seems to me to be the point where Windows Mobile wins it for PDAs, sad as that is.

[iboar]

This debate has been knocked around for a long time. I own a laptop and a Palm, and I use my Palm twenty times more often than my laptop. About the only thing I use the laptop for these days is connecting to the net (something I wish I could relegate to a new PDA with Wifi!) I use my Palm for things I could never use a laptop for.

But your point that laptops with impressive hardware are coming down in price is a good point. Palm can bring out low-end PDAs all it wants, but don't go charging $400 for them.

You missed my point altogether! Notice I said the two makets were different. People own notebooks and PDAs for different reasons. I was merely pointing out that until PDAs can be as cost effective as notebooks--as much bang for the buck--they will be too expensive. $400 for a T5 is way too much. $650+ for a high-end PDA is even more absurd. The PDAs simply are not worth that amount of money, and thus the lack of sales.

[zackepceo]

The high-end PDA market is stagnent, not in innovation, but in sales. You can get a (IMO not good) Dell or hp laptop on sale with rebate for $600. The laptop idoes so much more than the PDA. Yes, different markets, but the infereor device should not be more than the laptop.

[Adrenochrome]

Hey, careful who you're calling inferior! Just because a laptop is this giant thing you can't fit on your person doesn't mean it's inferior!:)

[jjesusfreak01]

You know the reason why there are no Cobalt pdas out yet may be that there is no stable version out yet. If they have come out with a second os version (6.1), it makes me wonder if it is really ready yet.

[Adrenochrome]

You missed my point altogether! Notice I said the two makets were different. People own notebooks and PDAs for different reasons. I was merely pointing out that until PDAs can be as cost effective as notebooks--as much bang for the buck--they will be too expensive. $400 for a T5 is way too much. $650+ for a high-end PDA is even more absurd. The PDAs simply are not worth that amount of money, and thus the lack of sales.
Actually, I did get your point, hence my second paragraph.

That said, I would buy a $650 PDA before a $650 notebook, but that's because my needs are probably different than yours.

[zackepceo]

You know the reason why there are no Cobalt pdas out yet may be that there is no stable version out yet. If they have come out with a second os version (6.1), it makes me wonder if it is really ready yet.
Cobalt is completely stable... we can clearly see that with the Cobalt Simulator.

[jjesusfreak01]

The sim is barebones, i have seen it and have caused it to lockup with no effort on my part. This has occurred multiple times.

[Jukov]

Um. All I can say is - if PalmOne will be throwing things in your face, you'd better press charges.

Have you ever considered that sometimes a company might release a product that's just not for you? And that maybe at some point they'll release another product that will be what you want?
1. It's a figure of speech, don't be an a..
2. Yes I have ever considered it; As a long term all high end palm device user I also consider myself allowed to be disappointed and , yes, even pissed off by the developments of the brand I chose 6+ year ago
3. I'm looking for the best device out there with the best features. I consider the Palm OS to be the best so I would like to see it running on the best device, do you have any problem with this also?

[zackepceo]

The sim is barebones, i have seen it and have caused it to lockup with no effort on my part. This has occurred multiple times.
This is a problem with using end user apps with the debug rom, as well as inherent simulator limitations. If you recall the OS 5 simulator, it was buggy and picky and not good.

[winexprt]

You know the reason why there are no Cobalt pdas out yet may be that there is no stable version out yet. If they have come out with a second os version (6.1), it makes me wonder if it is really ready yet.

The second os version as you put it has nothing to do with stability. It is being touted by Palm as a parallel OS to 6.0 to be used primarily in smartphones. While they will use Cobalt (6.0) in handhelds.


"PalmSource is pushing Cobalt 6.1 as the foundation for smartphones and new categories of wireless mobile devices. Many of the enhancements to the original Palm OS Cobalt seek to strengthen Cobalt’s appeal to device manufacturers and network operators, enabling faster hardware production and easier customisation."

[jjesusfreak01]

I see winexprt, I agree, it does seem to be a smartphone version. As an excuse for not releasing handhelds, they promise us smartphones with the smartphone Cobalt. Dont take me wrong, i have nothing against Palm, I dont own one of their handhelds for the sole reason that they do not have a good one with integrated WiFi and Hires+. I stick with Sony, who despite their "bad" record for continuing customer support, always come out with innovative handhelds. In my house there is a TH-55, a TG-50, a T-415, and a Tungsten T. The T1 is plain pda with bluetooth, the T-415 is the slimmest pda ever, the TG-50 has bluetooth and a keyboard, and the TH-55 has a hires+ screen, wifi, and great battery life.

Innovation is what we need, and besides the landscape support on the T3, they have provided none. The T3 would be the best selling pda ever if it had wifi and battery life. Whats the problem with the engineers at Palm?
The World May Never Know!

[Jukov]

The second os version as you put it has nothing to do with stability. It is being touted by Palm as a parallel OS to 6.0 to be used primarily in smartphones. While they will use Cobalt (6.0) in handhelds.
Well, I don't know... according to the pics of the OS as they appeared on this forum it is more likely to be a PDA OS, IMHO.

[zackepceo]

Well, I don't know... according to the pics of the OS as they appeared on this forum it is more likely to be a PDA OS, IMHO.
I remind you that Palm OS 5.4 was designed for Smartphones, not PDAs like the TT5.

[Jukov]

I remind you that Palm OS 5.4 was designed for Smartphones, not PDAs like the TT5.
Maybe I didn't get it... What are you suggesting?
BTW - we don't actually know what OS T5 is running....

[zackepceo]

I am suggesting that Palmone has a disregard for following Palmsource's advice..

[Jukov]

oh, got it :D exactly my point ... and further more - I think it seems to be adapted for PDAs more -look here (http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68810) , but what doI know :)

[RobertS]

A few notes....

First of all regarding the presense of PalmOne shills in this debate. They;re HEERRREEEE, but so are several PPC shills I have seen work elsewhere. Face it, part of this debate is being vendor-spun on both sides.

Regarding what a second version of Cobalt means; Business As Usual. Working in softaware production I know that the original release candidate never actually reaches consumers, just developeds, beta testers or key corporate clients. I would not be surprised if we see a 6.2 or 6.3 before an OS6 device is actually avalable at Circuit City.

I wholehearted agree with those who predict this device (whatever you call it) will be a big seller. The T|E was a better seller than the T3 and this device combines the best of both. The price is higher than the T|E but cheaper than almost all iPaq options (and for better or worse except for gearheads and pda-philes Axim and Loox are just not on the map, iPaq is the price to beat). For better or worse hard core users are NOT the key markets they are trying to sell to. I also agree that WiFi will not be a dealbreaker if it is really missing and have been saying that for weeks. You are all quoting the fact that PPC devices are almost all WiFI and using that as the reason that all palms should be. If all PPC vendors jumped off a cliff would you urge Palm to follow. I think HP has made a mistake because all that wireless is one of the reasons that every last one of the new iPaqs is over priced by at least 100 bucks. Palm is right to avoid that trap since I really can;t see vast throngs of people (those who DON'T lurk on PDA websites) being will to pay 100 bucks (at least) for a technology they don't really use much.

Lastly, for those who are making scary noises about switching to PPC (I bet Palm is really shaking), listen to the PPC sites, who are all discussing going to Palm due to hatred of the new iPaqs. No one is EVER happy where they are, it seems.

RobertS

[sth]

Well.. I somehow don't believe these infos. If there's any truth in these specs, then it might really be the new E2. What was high-end in one generation becomes mid-range in the next. Except from the 256MB flash-ram it really looks like that (also the hardware-finish looks "TE-class" to my eyes). The picture could easily be photoshopped from the Tungsten E product photo at Amazon.com. Furthermore I can't believe they would use that dark color for the PDA.

And then there's also the wxwindows porting contest mentioned earlier (http://www.wxwidgets.org/palmos.htm). I believe this more than any "information from a non-disclosed trusted source" and even if the hardware picture is the correct one, the specs may still be faked...

I'm pretty sure the T5 will have Cobalt. First PalmSource releases OS6.1 and an SDK based on (and including) a completely free development environment (eclipse). Then they even initiate software porting-contests... I don't think they'll do that just for releasing an OS5-based PDA a week later...

Well... I wait for the official announcement. Maybe I'll bash Palm1 later on but currently I don't know what infos I should trust.

What would interest me is: Will the T5 support OpenGL-ES in Hardware? Palm stated that Cobalt will support it. The only question is, if there will be any PDA equipped with the needed hardware (like the Dell X50).

[Antoine]

Just a tick of info about that "designed for smartphones" mantra from one who asked asked PS directly:
Cobalt 6.0 was the new OS, designed from the ground up, to be a foundation for all PalmOS PDAs, especially for those wireless ones. The 6.1 announcemnt was not of a second version of it, but an UPDATE to 6.0 that is designed to bring out the wireless options that Cobalt offers. To that end, PS has focused on wireless and telephony yet, when there is a device that doesn't use those features, it does not mean that Cobalt will not be just as robust, just not as wireless. As for Garnet 5.4, it is not more a smartphone OS than 5.2 is. There are some interface adjustments and compatiblity pieces that make it more friendly to smartphone devices. When the Treo650 comes out, as those that have played with it and the 600 to see the differences.

P1 only has to use the OS. PS does have a responsiblity to have a vision for the software they are selling. And they have with:

We are doing for wireless what we did for PDAs
Simplify most important problems of value-added phone users

That was taken from a PS presentation that I received. Basically, they are concentratng on wireless accessiblity, but they leave it to the licensees for implementing it. I would count on P1 being cautious, yet a good seller. At some point they may push the envelop, but it will have to be very calculated for them. Leave it to smaller groups like Tapwave and others to do the daring stuff. They have to make an impression, P1 already has (positive or negative is for you to decide).

[Antoine]

I wholehearted agree with those who predict this device (whatever you call it) will be a big seller. The T|E was a better seller than the T3 and this device combines the best of both. The price is higher than the T|E but cheaper than almost all iPaq options (and for better or worse except for gearheads and pda-philes Axim and Loox are just not on the map, iPaq is the price to beat). For better or worse hard core users are NOT the key markets they are trying to sell to. I also agree that WiFi will not be a dealbreaker if it is really missing and have been saying that for weeks. You are all quoting the fact that PPC devices are almost all WiFI and using that as the reason that all palms should be. If all PPC vendors jumped off a cliff would you urge Palm to follow. I think HP has made a mistake because all that wireless is one of the reasons that every last one of the new iPaqs is over priced by at least 100 bucks. Palm is right to avoid that trap since I really can;t see vast throngs of people (those who DON'T lurk on PDA websites) being will to pay 100 bucks (at least) for a technology they don't really use much.

Wow. A very nice comment. Probably the best I have read in a long time.


Lastly, for those who are making scary noises about switching to PPC (I bet Palm is really shaking), listen to the PPC sites, who are all discussing going to Palm due to hatred of the new iPaqs. No one is EVER happy where they are, it seems.
Yes they listen, and that is why they are careful about what is introduced when. If PS did not think that PS Installer would be a good idea, then they would have not done it. As a tip, watch for an updated Hotsync conduit that will allow you to stop a HS to take a phone call without worrying about whether info was corrupted or not - yes I know you can cancel a HS now, but it does not always save to where you stopped. PS is smart to include what works, and we do not have as many problems with what doesn - until the licensees make changes and that causes things to break (Sony and P1 please stand up). When done right, the PalmOS has been excellent, and those that are happy with it are, those that arent use PPC or Linux. It is as simple as use what makes you comfy.

[edeab220]

I wholehearted agree with those who predict this device (whatever you call it) will be a big seller. The T|E was a better seller than the T3 and this device combines the best of both. The price is higher than the T|E but cheaper than almost all iPaq options (and for better or worse except for gearheads and pda-philes Axim and Loox are just not on the map, iPaq is the price to beat). For better or worse hard core users are NOT the key markets they are trying to sell to. I also agree that WiFi will not be a dealbreaker if it is really missing and have been saying that for weeks. You are all quoting the fact that PPC devices are almost all WiFI and using that as the reason that all palms should be. If all PPC vendors jumped off a cliff would you urge Palm to follow. I think HP has made a mistake because all that wireless is one of the reasons that every last one of the new iPaqs is over priced by at least 100 bucks. Palm is right to avoid that trap since I really can;t see vast throngs of people (those who DON'T lurk on PDA websites) being will to pay 100 bucks (at least) for a technology they don't really use much.
I was rethinking my stand on this new T|T5, and this was the line of thought I was leading to. palmOne's focus is the business customers and those users who buy the handheld for what they only need, not what they want. We WANT WiFi. We WANT Cobalt. Does the normal user need it? Not really, and they don't care. My dad is happy with his Visor Prism, and he has no plan to upgrade. People these days buy PDAs for what they need only.

Of course I'm taking your comment and basicly fit mine (:p), but that was an excellent comment. I need to read those comments once in a while ;).

[Gekko]

"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3

[Jukov]

A few notes....

... You are all quoting the fact that PPC devices are almost all WiFI and using that as the reason that all palms should be. If all PPC vendors jumped off a cliff would you urge Palm to follow.

No we just want the wifi regardless what the ppc vendors are doing

I really can;t see vast throngs of people (those who DON'T lurk on PDA websites) being will to pay 100 bucks (at least) for a technology they don't really use much.

We are just a lab rats. But as we buy the high end technology it's being exposed to the wider public and being adopted later on

Lastly, for those who are making scary noises about switching to PPC (I bet Palm is really shaking)

They should be shaking 'cause we are the customers we pay the money, the whole purpose of a business is to satisfy a customer/
When I talk about moving to ppc I'm not threatening P1 , I'm just looking for the best deal for me.

[Gekko]

I was rethinking my stand on this new T|T5, and this was the line of thought I was leading to. palmOne's focus is the business customers and those users who buy the handheld for what they only need, not what they want. We WANT WiFi. We WANT Cobalt. Does the normal user need it? Not really, and they don't care. My dad is happy with his Visor Prism, and he has no plan to upgrade. People these days buy PDAs for what they need only.

Of course I'm taking your comment and basicly fit mine (:p), but that was an excellent comment. I need to read those comments once in a while ;).

AND THESE PEOPLE WILL NOT PAY $400 FOR A STINKIN' PDA!!!!!!! THIS IS WHY YOUR ARGUMENT IS FALSE. THE MASS MARKET LOOKS AT PRICE, NOT FEATURES. THIS IS WHAT THEY BASE THEIR DECISION ON.

FOR EXAMPLE - THE MASS MARKET MAY NOT "WANT/NEED" A CAR WITH A BUILT-IN GPS NAVIGATION SYSTEM, BUT THEY SURE AS HELL AREN'T GOING TO PAY THE SAME PREMIUM FOR A CAR WITHOUT IT AS ONE WITH.

SO PLEASE STOP REPEATING THIS FALSE ARGUMENT.

[RobertS]

Actually Gekko, they WILL pay 400 for a PDA if the competing models cost 500-600.

You are right that the average consumer is price driven...but price satisfaction is heavily influenced by comparison shopping. If someone feels the need for a PDA then 400 will speak to them before 500. If they don't feel that need, then to the main consumer base 50 bucks is too expensive.

And for once will you please stop yelling?

RobertS

[Gekko]

Also - I think Michael Dell knows a little something about selling computers (and PDAs). His solution is offer a CUSTOMIZABLE configuration - here's a NOVEL IDEA - LET THE CUSTOMER CHOOSE!!! Dell offers 3 levels of PDAs - LOW, MID, HIGH models. This way YOU PICK WHAT FEATURES YOU WANT, THEY BUILD IT, AND YOU PAY FOR IT!!!!

Unfortunately, I do not think Palm can match Dell's logistical/sales model.

[minimalposter]

[QUOTE=Gekko]AND THESE PEOPLE WILL NOT PAY $400 FOR A STINKIN' PDA!!!!!!! THIS IS WHY YOUR ARGUMENT IS FALSE. THE MASS MARKET LOOKS AT PRICE, NOT FEATURES. THIS IS WHAT THEY BASE THEIR DECISION ON.QUOTE]

The average consumer, that PalmOne is supposedly so intellegntly courting, is not going to pay $400 for a small electronic device even if you load it with WiFi, VGA and a coffee maker. Unless of course you include white earphones and push it in every movie/TV show -- hey good idea!!

Especially when consumers can purchase an almost identical TE for half of the money. They must be aiming this device at high end users otherwise we would see the Palm Zire 411

[Gekko]

Actually Gekko, they WILL pay 400 for a PDA if the competing models cost 500-600.

You are right that the average consumer is price driven...but price satisfaction is heavily influenced by comparison shopping. If someone feels the need for a PDA then 400 will speak to them before 500. If they don't feel that need, then to the main consumer base 50 bucks is too expensive.

And for once will you please stop yelling?

RobertS

Palm1 will fail with their flagship model if it's weak because power users will snub it on features and mass-market users will snub it on price.

[Jukov]

I second Gekko. Low range Dell will cost around 200$ w/ not much less features than T5 so guess what the average buyer will be looking at...

[Gekko]

Viva Bush!

[Jukov]

BTW - what do I need wifi for? 1. access to files and internet at university 2. browsing at work (as i for 2-3 hours a day using the BT - but why shouldn't I be able to do this faster and for free)
BTW 2 - Robert, by the Q1 of 2005 Jerusalem is getting wired up by hotspot from Intel-Israel so it's free internet access for all!

[Jukov]

Viva Bush!
????????????

[jjesusfreak01]

I must say that WiFi is important to all future pdas. I owned a TG-50, which is a really nice PDA, but I would not have upgraded to a TH-55 if it did not have WiFi, nor will I upgrade again unless a good pda comes around with WiFi. Of course, this would not be an upgrade if it did not have WiFi.

[RobertS]

As for Dell being the holy grail of PDAs, then why are they an also-ran in the market? My estimation is they will continue to be so. PDAs simply are NOT like desktop computers and the potential buyers are different. User-configuration and variety of model specs is not the key to PDAs, rather it is being able to strike the best balance between price and functionality while covering the key areas (PIMs, snapshots, light doc editing, MP3) most effectively.

I utterly disagree with Gekko's viewpoint, no matter how many times he states it as law with no facts or ideas to back it up whatsoever except for his own buying habits.

Jukov...Thanks, I know about the Intel-Israel set up and I am looking forward to it (with either my T|C or my TH-55). That doesn;t mean I need WiFi in a T5, especially as the vast majority of buyers do NOT rank web browsing or email in their key needs for a PDA.

[RobertS]

Oh, and Gekko...stay off politics please.

[Antoine]

I think you are right in wanting Wifi, the question is if P1 thinks that their business class line is the one to do that. They have no camera models there, just a basic, BT, and Wifi. It fits for whom they market to. Now, I would not put it past P1 to do a dual wireless Zire model with no more than the 128MB. And probably do it the same way as the T5 is rumored to be with that Flash drive like feature. Heck, that would be a heck of a way to get pics/video onto a HD. Uhmm, now that I think about it, that would make for a really nice last ditch Garnet model or a really nice first effort Cobalt model. Though I think that in this case Garnet would be better.

What I am basically saying is that P1 probably wants wifi in more modesl too. But I think that we who want wifi are only proving the point that having it in a business class device (no matter how few of us work in environments that use wifi) is not happening (yet). In a consumer level device, to have BT, WiFi, and a camera (a la the rx3715 that I have) would make for a great device. It just cannot cost more than $400. I don't know that P1 is ready for that in this model run. Maybe in the next one we will see it. But right now, they are (trying) to push the Treo and will push the Tungsten. The Zire usually sees its bells around graduation and Father's day as that is the best time for consumers with tax refunds (USA folks who spend too much - like me) to get it. At that time, enough people will have heard about wifi that it would be a great sell, and I bet that P1 would sell a lot based on the simple fact that just seeing "palm powered" on the device makes it a sale faster than "windows mobile 2003 second edition" (the correlation here being that if it takes too long to say it then it is too expensive it use it - what is the name of the new Lambo again ;) )

[zackepceo]

I don't want to switch to PPC, but my TG is feeling a little old. I think this whole year is a general slump for PDAs. One thing I will compliment Palmone about, though. I think the treo 650 will be my next cell phone.

[hamsammich]

Like many people here have already mentioned, no "average" PDA buyer is going to fork over $400 for their basic needs. Instead of the T|E upgrade that the T|5 looks to be so far, they'll just buy a Dell Axim or stay with their E or low-end Zire until something less expensive comes out. And, I don't know many power users (like "those who lurk on PDA websites", i.e., all of us, as Robert put it) who will fork over that type of premium price for a sidegrade to what we largely have.

I don't know how anybody can say that the casual or average user will buy this thing...unless they've just got money to burn.

[zackepceo]

Like many people here have already mentioned, no "average" PDA buyer is going to fork over $400 for their basic needs. Instead of the T|E upgrade that the T|5 looks to be so far, they'll just buy a Dell Axim or stay with their E or low-end Zire until something less expensive comes out. And, I don't know many power users (like "those who lurk on PDA websites", i.e., all of us, as Robert put it) who will fork over that type of premium price for a sidegrade to what we largely have.

I don't know how anybody can say that the casual or average user will buy this thing...unless they've just got money to burn.
Exactly.. Palmone is catering to the market that really doesn't exist.

[Jukov]

As for Dell being the holy grail of PDAs, then why are they an also-ran in the market? My estimation is they will continue to be so. PDAs simply are NOT like desktop computers and the potential buyers are different. User-configuration and variety of model specs is not the key to PDAs, rather it is being able to strike the best balance between price and functionality while covering the key areas (PIMs, snapshots, light doc editing, MP3) most effectively.

I utterly disagree with Gekko's viewpoint, no matter how many times he states it as law with no facts or ideas to back it up whatsoever except for his own buying habits.
Your facts are as good as his. The thing is that handheld's market is 10M big because all the handheld could do untill a few yaers ago is that - PIMs, snapshots, light doc editing, MP3. Given more abilities , handhels would be wider spread...

Jukov...Thanks, I know about the Intel-Israel set up and I am looking forward to it (with either my T|C or my TH-55). That doesn;t mean I need WiFi in a T5, especially as the vast majority of buyers do NOT rank web browsing or email in their key needs for a PDA.
Again you DO have a wifi model and you WILL be using it so why shouldn't T series users be able to use it? And again the vast majority of buyers do not rank web browsing or email in their key needs for a PDA, because they need to have a suitable option to do so. And btw the vast majority of my friends and co-worker own a handheld - TEs, Toshibas, HPs T3s and ALL of them are using it for web browsing.

[ConfusedbyPalm]

I've been a palm user from the beginning of the PalmPilot 5000 series. Even before it was in stores, I was calling the company and wanted one. Just knew this was a brilliant idea. I've been a palm user ever since, with a little detour to handspring for the platinum, then the Palm m505, then has been Sony but they left the market in the US.

If this new T5 sucker has no wifi, I'm going to probably abandon palm for a Dell. I have tons of palm software, medical references, epocrates, bluefishRx, etc and to make it work well you need tons of memory and wifi. I have my Clie Ux50 full and a 256MB memory card full as well. I can't run any more software. The only stupid limitation here is memory.. which is just stupid. If the T5 has a little more memory but no wifi it's useless because sure you can add the wifi card... but then you don't have extra memory access. I'm not going to smack my cards in and out to get the functionality I need, that's just stupid. If there aren't at least two expansion slots then I have no use for it... unless it has built in wifi. I think there are many Ux-50 users that would be looking to change models because mine has broken once already.. (sent it in, they took weeks to send me a refurbished replacement that didnt' even work... only to finally send a second replacement after being on hold and getting mad for over an hour with support). I don't trust it anymore, need a replacement with more memory and wifi, and really as it stands now there isn't any other option. Palm has the opportunity to take that part of the market that needs high end.

I'm sooooooooo disappointed with the T5 if reports are accurate, and being a palm fan (even a beta tester in the past) for so long I'm about to throw in the towel if this one sucks like it sounds.

I just cannot imagine why in the world they always have units with restrictions and limits like they do when they design these things. Why the heck can't they be more forward thinking and leave the expansion options more wide open. That has been my only problem with Palm in the past. Too many dead ends and no work arounds.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..

[Vidge]

I've bought at least one new Palm OS PDA every year since the Pilot 5000 was released in 1996, currently on my 10th model, the T3. The rumored specs on the TE2 (can't possibly call this thing a T5) are underwhelming. I also own an hp4155, so I frequent boards both sides. There are a few things that have been posted on in this thread that I want to comment on:
1. Dual wireless. While Palm doesn't have to keep up with PPC on this, I think it would be prudent to do so. Yes, the newly released PPCs are overpriced. But the fact that no new Palm units have this means that folks are willing to pay a bit more to get it. And let's face it - the sales people in the stores are using this as a tool to sell more PPCs. I think this is the single largest reason for the increase in PPC marketshare. (And no, I have no stats on this.)
2. Upgrade for T3 users. It's been a year, which is as long a production cycle as Palm has ever had. This unit is no upgrade.
3. TE2 will sell well. I don't think so, unless the price is lower. It just doesn't compare well with the PPCs.

I have to agree with the other posters here. I don't know who Palm is aiming this particular handheld to.

edit - one other thought. What if there are two units coming out? The leaked pictures on the cases at Amazon showed two different button groups. Maybe Palm is going to surprise us with both a TE2 and a T5. :p

A gal can hope, right? ;)

[Antoine]

My only [wish] about the T5 is that my SanDisk card would be able to be used with it. I doubt it, but I really would like that. Then with that new RAM structure I will be able to use the card and save files right to my PDA. With PS Installer, I will be able to install from anywhere. Hence, I will be happy. I dont know if many users here would want to do that, but there are a ton of lazy computer users who want to do this with a PDA and this might make them bite on $400

[hamsammich]

...and just think, all of our banter from the past few weeks will go on for at least another 3 or 4 days!
:rolleyes:

[DeanDC10]

It will be interesting to see what happens on October 5th. Maybe all we have been talking about is a TE2 and not the T|5 as mentioned above. If that is the case who knows what the T|5 might be? If it is the TE2 that we've see it seems P1 has lost their direction.....

[zackepceo]

I doubt this is TE2, just because of the amount of ram. That is a large amount of ram, and that equals money.

[Jukov]

I think it's flash and the ram is 32Mb, isn't it?

[zackepceo]

The storage is 288MB combined. That's a LOT of ram for a $199-299 device.

[Integrity]

I'm not trying to start anything here, but where are you getting this FACTUAL information about the RAM? I'm under the impression that Palm hasn't released anything official just yet.
I am also one that hopes very much so that this is not the T5 as it would suck something fierce if it were.:)

[Gekko]

"Deep Bluetooth" Reveals Secrets of the new Treo 650 and Tungsten T5
By: Kermit Woodall on 9/30/2004 6:01:35 PM

We were able to confirm a few things. The pictures of the Tungsten T5 seen on PalmInfoCenter and Amazon are real. The leaked pictures from Sprint of the Treo 650 are real. Only the CDMA is faked.

Anyone who hoped the T5 might have PalmOS 6 will be disappointed. It’s still just PalmOS 5.4 at this time. However, it does come stock with a 520Mhz PXA270 processor and 256mb of RAM which suggests upgrade possibilities to a heftier operating system in the future. The RAM is special and is divided into 64mb of standard memory, 160mb for an internal SD card, and 32m used for dynamic heap/other. The RAM is special in that it is similar to Flash RAM and doesn’t loose anything stored in it if you lose power! Elsewhere, there is no Wifi, just Bluetooth, and functionally it’s not much different than the T3 except that it’s tablet-style, not a slider. The T5 also has a ‘drive’ mode so you can plug it into your USB connector and use it as a USB mass storage device.

http://www.pdabuzz.com/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=30&itemid=457

[gusanitoverde]

For $400.00 is so not worh it!

[T5Hunger]

First - those thinking this might be a suprise E2 - I would doubt that, as I don't know of any confirmations of rumors about an E2 at all. There have been all kinds of accessories for the T5 listed on sites (Amazon, J&R, etc) and in store inventory systems; but not a word about an E2. So that pretty much kills that theory, at least to me. If an E2 was coming out soon, there would have been slip-ups pointing to that fact.

Second - those still thinking this will have Cobalt / 6.x - I doubt that as well, it seems the most reputable rumors (if there is such a thing) have all been pointing towards 5.4. Some are using the wxWidgets contest as 'evidence' of Cobalt on the T5. I don't buy it - while this contest seems to have just surfaced on the message boards, it looks to me like it's not really that new, and was based on speculation that the T5 would run Cobalt - not any hard facts. Why? Well, the contest page says "Since the T5 won't be available until later in 2004". It also says "we're aiming for the end of 2004". And finally, the rules state "If the T5 is unavailable, an equivalent running or upgradeable to Palm OS 6 will be substituted."

To me that all sounds like they created this contest a little while back, when rumors about the T5 name first came out. It also sounds like this contest was created with no insider knowledge of P1's plans. I don't think we can really use this contest as evidence about the upcoming T5.

Of course, like many I'm *hoping* for a T5 with Cobalt and WiFi; but I don't think that's gonna happen unfortunately.

[jjesusfreak01]

Surprise E2 would be interesting. If they had all this publicity and made people think it was a T5 when it was really a E2. Then the real T5 could actually be completely different. We might see the mother PDA, and the lesser E2 on the side. This would be the great deception, one of the greatest of all time. It would be an incredible idea, because it would blow the socks off of everyone.

[Jukov]

Just a question...
Why would P1 conceal any info on the new upcoming model/s? opinions?

[gavinfabl]

Because thats their style.. clouds of secrecy.. false info...

[Gekko]

Yes, here's hoping we see a Cobalt device soon since it's almost one year since its release. Of course, hope is not a strategy.

Excuses are like a**holes, everyone's got one.

And the facts don't lie. There are no Cobalt devices almost ONE YEAR after its introduction. Something is wrong here. Either this thing is not ready for prime time, or somebody at PalmSource is doing a really SHIITTY JOB at selling or working with licensees in getting Cobalt PDAs to market. AN OS maker has to bear some RESPONSIBILITY in implementing/selling the OS. You just don't build a mouse trap and hope it sells. YOU sell it. Either PalmSource is not doing this OR they are just really ineffective at doing this. I think somebody needs to be FIRED.

The excuses appear to be:
1. Well, we just create the OS, we have no control over when licensees release the new-OS device.
2. Well, we are better than MSFT because we allow licensees to customize the OS and this is why it's taking so long.

At the end of the day, results are what matter. Everything else is just conversation.

Until I actually hold a Cobalt device in my hands, it's all just fun and games. VAPORWARE.

[rclodfelter]

"Anyone who hoped the T5 might have PalmOS 6 will be disappointed.

I for one am disappointed!

Except for the memory increase my NX is still comparable to the new specs of the T5 (in my eyes) and I can use my 1 Gig CF card.

[Lance]

I tell myself with every new product introduction that I will not stay "glued" to the Internet for the next one. Well, here I am again, glued to the Internet waiting for any new piece of information on the new devices from palmOne.

With that said, I have been keeping up with this thread, and there have been some good discussions about the upcoming T5. Unfortunately, I personally think we are all in denial about the rumored T5 specifications. I know I am. I am still hoping that palmOne will pull a rabbit out of the hat next week. Of course, the rabbit being the REAL T5 - the T5 will all were hoping it would be (i.e. Cobalt, 400+ MHz, 128+ MB of RAM, 320x480 screen, long battery life, built-in WiFi, built-in Bluetooth).

Over the past years, I believe palmOne has put more and more effort in preventing leaks on new products. Therefore, I would not put anything past palmOne, especially if they actually had a "killer" device. With the information age, it is hard to surprise people with anything, much less a new handheld device, so why not try some unconventional tactics to create some shock value.

At the same time, I really do not think palmOne would go through that much effort to keep the news from leaking out. I know competition is fierce, but I imagine certain people at Dell or HP already know all about the upcoming devices. In addition, the only people that would know about the scarce amount of information posted about the T5 would be the people visiting this board. While 1SRC gets a lot of traffic, would it be enough for palmOne to go through the trouble of plugging ALL the communication holes? For any company, that would be a hard thing to accomplish.

Anyway, I guess we should know something soon. Until then, I guess we will all be here waiting for the first actual reviews, the first actual sightings, and the first actual pictures of the devices to come.

Thanks for listening,
Lance

[KongK]

Although, like everyone else, I hope (pray more like!) P1 will launched a Cobalt device this month, I've resigned myself to yet another long wait... :(

Whatever it is, hope it'll be announced soon though. Been hogging my office internet bandwidth all week long. Luckily, I'm the administrator :)

Wonder if there's still any TH55 left in the market...

[hamsammich]

...yes, there are TH55's left...I just might pick one up if the T|5 sucks as bad as it's reputed to be so far.

[pavneet]

When Sony left the PalmOS market; I am still not convinced that they have left the PDA market, I posed the question whether this might not be a damning indictment on how Sony felt after taking a look at Cobalt. Now with almost certain delays to a Cobalt powered device, I think that assessment may have been closer to the truth than I would have hazarded.

I hope that I am wrong. I chose PalmOS after a lengthy investigation into PPC and PalmOS. I started with an SJ0, and then upgraded to a TG50. For me a PDA is a go everwhere device. I have no interest in a laptop if a PDA will take care of my mobility needs. When I was selecting which device to go for I scoured the PDA boards for weeks. Yes I am obsessive compulsive, and yes I am an engineer ;-). Those early Dells (Dell had just introduced the Axim line to bring down the prices of PPC devices) had enormous problems with syncing due to hardware connections with the cable and loss of data, which was a non-starter for me.

Quite honestly, coming to Palm was a letdown. I had owned a Psion Revo for several years and a HP95LX before that, and that was where I had hoped PDAs were going. Anyone who has used EPOC's built in applications will know what I am speaking off. Repeating, dated TO-DOs? Of course, sir. No problem. Multiple addresses for a contact? Simple. To-dos showing up on the day that they are expected to come due even in week views. Yes. I was set to buy the handheld version of EPOC devices (the Quartz format) on the day they were released.

It took a while for me to tweak the Clie to my satisfaction and for the most part it has performed admirably. And talk of BeOS elements being added made me excited. I spent 10 years with NeXTSTEP.

However, as I look back at Psion I wonder if maybe the PDA market has reduced itself to a hacked up PIM. And now we are in a cycle where incremental hardware improvements are all that we have to look forward to.

As I say, I hope not.

[Antoine]

The excuses appear to be:
1. Well, we just create the OS, we have no control over when licensees release the new-OS device.
2. Well, we are better than MSFT because we allow licensees to customize the OS and this is why it's taking so long.


I have a few responces:
for #1: this is a true statement, and even if they did have more control over when devices are released, PS cannot make a licensee use Cobalt as that does not follow their current business model of being extremely flexible. From my convos with PS, they do know around the time Cobalt devices will be released, and have reassured me that they will not be coming until next year (when asked when in the Spring I was told that they were not allowed to reveal possible dates or licensees). So to that end, it is an excuse that does hold some water, mainly because of your #2

for #2
They are better than MS in that their contracts have allowed more flexiblity when it comes ot making different devices. The counter to that end is that there is not a basic/ODM type design that all are required to use. Because PS maintains that idea of "simplicity being exceuted best by a company's vision" ideal, the amount it time that it takes to customize an OS can sometimes hamper the time to market that it takes to make a device. I am sure that P1, Sony and others have Cobalt devices in testing, but have for one reason or another decided to hold off on releasing them. Think about a company like P1 who worked well with getting into Garnet devices after that glut of OS4 devices. They took a year to make the transistion (except for the lowest Zire) and it went well as most of the models were well received by consumers (making the bottom line nicer for them). If they were to switch this quickly, it would say that they are keeping on top of tech, but also possibly making it look like Garnet was not sufficient. The more that they can pump out of Garnet, the more valuable that Garnet has become. That does not mean that they will not move, but rather, when they move, people who bought the last Garnet devices before the transistion would say that they have no complelling reason to upgrade. This keeps teh customer base strong and gives you a model year to work out the kinks before mainstream acceptance. Does P1, sony, et al have the time to do this. Probably not according to us, probably yes according to those who don't use their PDAs as much.

Last thing, I asked a few people if they would consider a PDA with 256MB RAM that mounts as a HD. They asked why would that be a good feature (these are office people who use PDAs for PIM and an occasional game). I responded that it would be like carrying a USB key with them, and having a Palm all in one device. They were sold on the idea. Granted, PPCs have been doing this for a good long time (without adding other software) and it is a great feature when you know abuot it. P1 is banking on pushing that, as well as the never lose your data end which is simply marvelous. So my SD slot will have a wifi card stuck in it, thats kool, since now I can download right to my device and have enough RAM and a file system that will accomoidate installing right there (with the exception of a few doctors here that have tons of references, this solution will work just fine).

[jjesusfreak01]

Actually some Clies let you use the memorystick as a flash drive, even without drivers. The T-415 can do this. My TH-55 can, but you have to install the MS Export software on your computer (This loads the driver)

[luke.skywalker]

at j&r all t5 articles are gone ....

[hamsammich]

at j&r all t5 articles are gone ....

Yep. I imagine they jumped the gun and didn't count on all of us exploiting their mistake. I'm sure they'll get their hands smacked by PalmOne.

Man, we're a rabid bunch, arent' we?!

:rolleyes:

[Alejandrico]

Is there someone who still believes the T5 is a fake?

[hamsammich]

Is there someone who still believes the T5 is a fake?

I don't think so. All of the accessories spotted on the net pretty much point to the inevitability that the T|5 is the real deal. The only thing that remains is to see what the true specs are when it's released next week.

[Gekko]

d-roc - you miss my point. my point is that it is PalmSource has two jobs - the first is to create a great OS but also to DO THE HARD WORK IT TAKES TO MAKE SURE IT HITS THE STREET. It's not enough to just create a great poduct, you have to SELL IT and proactively create conditions to make it succeed. Building a better mousetrap is one thing - but you have to EFFECTIVELY HELP/PUSH/SELL your licensees to IMPLEMENT and MARKET your product. OS6 COBALT IS NOT MAKING PALM ANY MONEY IF CUSTOMERS CAN'T BUY IT! PalmSource needs to do more to get it to market!

Now, perhaps the problem is deeper - maybe OS6 Cobalt is not ready from prime time. Why do I say this? Because some things are fishy. Why come out with a 6.1 when 6.0 devices were not even released yet??? WHy has it been almost ONE YEAR since 6.0 was released??? Something is wrong here.

What's your explanation?

[ptmin]

Greetings
I am a new reg member but i want to submit this issue that no one has said a thing about ,my T3 is gone for screws replacement before then i did a hard reset removing all data since it is said that the T5 will have a different architecture data will not loss under hard reset does any one have an idea in such cases ? like selling T5 for T6 upgrade how do we remove data before sell T5 or sending it for repairs

[jjesusfreak01]

Im sure it will have a hard reset feature that erases all non-system files.

[alex_lorenzo]

The picture in the discussed article shows the tip of one of those E2 or Zire-like styli. Not an important feature, but a little step backwards.

(not quite glad at the prospect of another long? wait until Tungsten T6...)

[fillg2002]

This may just be me but it seems that P1 has fallen into a trend of releasing lackluster products i.e. zires and the T|E and now the T|5. It looks like they have shifted their focus to the mobile phone market. It would not supprise me if they too bailed from the pda only market. The $$$ seems to be in the multicunction devices, and palm has been struggeling recently to turn proffits so they may look at eliminating their low performing devices all together. I am like all of you hoping that is not true but things are not looking too good. :-\

[hamsammich]

I'm actually hoping that, with the underwhelming T|5 release, PalmOne lowers the prices of the T|3 or T|C. If so, I'll buy one of those and stick with it until later next year when PalmOne's head is out of it's posterior and they give us a WiFi Cobalt machine.

Either that, or I'll (against my former judgement and ranting) get a NIB TH55 or a slightly used UX50 and live with one of those.

:mad:

[dave90]

Hi;

Is the T5 the unit that will give us the clearest look into the future of the PDA? The Treo will certainly be discussed tho.



However, as I look back at Psion I wonder if maybe the PDA market has reduced itself to a hacked up PIM. And now we are in a cycle where incremental hardware improvements are all that we have to look forward to.

As I say, I hope not.



We can sense the momentum this market has had this past year. Maybe it is fully mature with the PDA in its current offering. Adding greatly to the form factor might not sell to the masses due to complexity of use issues for many. Reducing prices might sell more units as production costs decrease thru time and development expenses dry up. And The Economy.

The cell phone industry has established a greater user base. A greater number of people need a cell phone as opposed to a PIM. Making the advanced cell phone more useful sells more units. If the cell phone industry absorbs the PDA, then where next will the "cell phone" march?

From this ancient thread, a self quote:

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15965


"What would interest a broad range of non-PDA owners and the already owners?

What about connectivity, not just with networking and communications but also navigating this complex world by bringing together the activities and needs of people.

1. Gather a bunch of PC and Notebook applications and uses together?

2. Gather the functions of select peripheral devices together? Ie., digital camera etc.

3. Approach convergence by designing activities, tasks and functions into the PDA that improve our lives? Quality of life, public safety and augmenting our interactions with the world."


What should the T5 give us, a high-power version of what exists today, maybe somewhat cheaper also, or some additional directions. I think the manufacturers have decided. I think the crystal ball will be for sale at our favorite retailer soon. Very Soon.

I also think my last PDA (maybe the T5) will be purchased 3-6 months from now, then on to another product that incorporates what I need in a few years.

Shoot my thinking down and I will humbly have a great day.

Dave

P.S. The above thread is brought up to give an example (in direction) of what is not to come and because I was familiar with the thread. The specific examples scattered about the thread may or may not be useful.

[fillg2002]

I have just returned from an outing to my local Best Buy where I have some inside connections. I had a friend look at the inventory system, and see if it gave any information on the new T5 it proved to be less informative than I expected. However I do have a definite price. The inventory system at Best Buy said it would sell for $399, my friend also commented that it had only been added to the system today.

[PixelPusher]

Well at least we have confirmation on the price. If it has WiFi or they at least bundle the WiFi card, then this will be an excellent buy.

In my case WiFi or not, I'll be buying one to replace my broken Tungsten C. (I have only been without it for a week and I'm going through serious withdrawals!)

-Eric

[hamsammich]

Although I can't see PalmOne "giving" away the WiFi cards, I can still hope that at least THAT will be a wireless solution...since SP2 broke Bluetooth altogether.

[Gekko]

fyi - The T3 Wifi Card is not quite a bowl of cherries say some:

http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/showthread.php?threadid=67727

http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/showthread.php?postid=367776#post367776

[hamsammich]

Interesting, indeed. This may be further evidence that I should just get a TH55 again...I never had problems connecting to my home network with it.

:mad:

[Antoine]

d-roc - you miss my point. my point is that it is PalmSource has two jobs - the first is to create a great OS but also to DO THE HARD WORK IT TAKES TO MAKE SURE IT HITS THE STREET. It's not enough to just create a great poduct, you have to SELL IT and proactively create conditions to make it succeed. Building a better mousetrap is one thing - but you have to EFFECTIVELY HELP/PUSH/SELL your licensees to IMPLEMENT and MARKET your product. OS6 COBALT IS NOT MAKING PALM ANY MONEY IF CUSTOMERS CAN'T BUY IT! PalmSource needs to do more to get it to market!

Now, perhaps the problem is deeper - maybe OS6 Cobalt is not ready from prime time. Why do I say this? Because some things are fishy. Why come out with a 6.1 when 6.0 devices were not even released yet??? WHy has it been almost ONE YEAR since 6.0 was released??? Something is wrong here.

What's your explanation?

Honestly, you are right. PS does need to do the work. When I talked to them before Euro Dev, they stated that they needed to do that moreso as well. Only time and marketshare will tell if they have made that leap in policy.

Was Cobalt ready? Probably not. Probably so. I really dont know. I do know that they pushed nice and hard for 6.1 to be as good as possible. So I am sure that it is ready now. Why a year later? I failed a programming class because it was too logical, so I am not the one to ask as to why it takes so long. I can assume that something was wrong and PS didnt want the problem of a major patch on its hands. They waited, and we should benefit. At least that is my optomistic opinion.

[hamsammich]

d-Roc, I agree with you. But, I think the overwhelming sentiment is "How long must we wait?" I know, I know..."when it's done" would be the answer. Just look, however, at how long we've waited for a hardware update (which appears to not really be an update) and now after a year, not to get a software update (not just incremental) is a little annoying.

If I were waiting that long for PC component engineers to come out with new technology, I would have quit using PC's a long time ago. As it stands, we get new PC technology nearly every couple of months. Sure, Microsoft is taking their sweet time with Longhorn, but I'd say they have just a little more to worry about and consider there.

Arguably, funding for just a single company like PalmSource (and PalmOne) to turn out products in short timeframes is not as feasible as it is for the myriad of companies engineering for PC components. But, that doesn't help P1's or PS's case for staying vital in today's PDA market. When it comes right down to it, the current PDA market is in dire straits...PPC or Palm, it doesn't matter.

I agree with most that P1/PS needs to turn out a solid, stable product in Cobalt, but I think we're still becoming a little irritated at the wait involved.

I guess in the end, though, we don't have any choice. They will release Cobalt when they're darned good and ready. I just hope that in that time, the PDA doesn't die out altogether.

[Rossi01]

Just when I started thinking my new PDA would be from Palm. I currently have a Clie TH55 and found Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are "defavlt" on my next PDAs. By the way gotta go now. I'm in the airport using Bluethooth to connect to the Internet using my mobile phone. No way I'd give this vp.

[hamsammich]

Actually, to append my last post, I forgot to mention that PalmSource will most likely flourish since they are going to shift focus of Cobalt to smartphone use...face it, that is the future of the PDA (as much as I hate to admit it).

Assessing PalmOne's future is much like looking into a misty crystal ball in the dark. They are trying to keep up in the PDA arena, but haven't given a whole lot of reason for the average user to keep using their product. Leaving out Cobalt might not be one of their best strategies, unless they plan on giving upgrades to the T|5.

[fillg2002]

I have been somewat upset about the rumored new T5 and have been doing some comparisons since I got a definite price. The $399 price seems to be way over priced when it comes to the other in the lineup. The zire 72 has voice recording a camera although a somewhat small screen, with the addition of the wifi sd card still comes to $378 (with current rebates), less than the selling price of the rumored T5 and if you include a wifi sd card your looking at over $528 for a little bigger screen and an internal sd card. The pricing of the new T5 just doesnt make sense if it doesnt include wifi or more of a signifigant change over the others. Just some wishful thinking I guess :-/

[*YellowRose*]

I think I'm going to have to add this one to the collection of PDAs currently living in my house.

It looks good to me, but I don't currently use the voice recorder OR the WiFi capability of my TH55. (I KNOW, I'm sad...)

I like the no-slider feature . . .

[LexLuther]

I can see your points Hamsammich and D-roc but even evil MS has taken a practical approach to getting out Longhorn, eg security. That is if it is 80% right and we are 100% behind it let's get it out. Well, CObalt may come out sometime in 2005 and by then even 25% of us may have moved on to PPC. Now if they put out Cobalt and stuffed it up, well, we maight leave as well but most of us can probably live with something rather than nothing. :confused:

[pavneet]

"What would interest a broad range of non-PDA owners and the already owners?"

This is the essential question. The challenge is that the market is fragmented so that the idea of a general purpose device seems to be disappearing. The iPod consumer wants music on the go. The Blackberry gang wants an executive gadget to show off bling, bling; never mind that it really doesn't work very well. The person who walks in off the street and goes to Future Shop/Best Buy/Circuit City who has never once done a search to evaluate the relative merits of different options in any of there purchase decisions wants someone else to make the decision for them, i.e., the salesperson on the floor; this includes washing machines, audio equipment, or PDAs. This group is already overwhelmed by the technology that they face in their everday life that they really couldn't care if there is something great around the corner. There are those as on this forum who want to be dazzled by the technology at each step so that they can get their regular fix.

As for me, I want much of what you had stated in your original thread: a compelling set of applications that allows me to bring some semblance of order to my life and to be able to answer questions that I may have on the fly. But this is more than just PC applications. So if I am on the road and wonder when that restaurant that I frequent will close tonight I look it up in Open. Going to the grocery store? Just look up what I need in HandyShopper in which I have been accumulating my shopping list for this go around. This happened just the other evening when I was out: someone that I was out to dinner with noticed that the moon was exceptionally bright, and out came Moon Phase to let us look at whether it was full. I am at a client site, and need to know the price of a 2m length of audio interconnect with silver conductor, I just pop open Pilot DB into which I have fed my price list. I think the part of the PDA that people have forgotten is "Assistant". That is what I need it to do more than anything. I want it to assist or augment what my failing grey cells cannot cope with.

This is why I cringe when I hear the Steve Jobs speak dismissively of PDAs and the inevitability of smart phones. Smart phones are dumb PDAs. Steve Jobs couldn't care less; he has an army of *assistants* that take care of the stuff for him that ordinary smucks like us have to find a way of doing ourselves. That is why we need a PD-A and will continue to do so. I just hope that the manufacturers of said device see that and continue to innovate.

Cheers.

[hamsammich]

Sadly, I can't see how the PDA market can continue to flourish within the next few years. People are just plain goofy for underpowered, half-baked smartphones. So far, not many smartphones have been a huge success (the exception-the Treo), but "average" Joes are scooping them up like hotcakes. Most of the people I see running around with camera/smartphones are teenagers whose parents bought them their new toy or businesspeople whose company bought theirs and really couldn't care less about what it is or does.

PDAs are for those of us who value and appreciate the separation between a phone and a PDA. Granted, the Treo does the best job out there at being both, but I still can't get past the idea that if one component breaks down and you have to send it in, you're out EVERYTHING. To me, that in itself is worth having two separate devices.

I wish that the world were perfect and PDAs were taking it by storm and that they would continue to forever, but that just isn't going to happen. PalmOne, Dell, HP and others will eventually give up PDAs and go with phones. I hate it, but it is just the way things are progressing. Power users utilize smartphones, but most like the separation...

:(

[Anon5678]

This is why I cringe when I hear the Steve Jobs speak dismissively of PDAs and the inevitability of smart phones. Smart phones are dumb PDAs. Steve Jobs couldn't care less; he has an army of *assistants* that take care of the stuff for him that ordinary smucks like us have to find a way of doing ourselves. That is why we need a PD-A and will continue to do so. I just hope that the manufacturers of said device see that and continue to innovate.

Very nicely put!! I don't like Smart Phones ae well. I cringe too when I read that PDAs will go the way of the dinosaurs and the so-called "smart phones" are the way of the future.

I have been following this thread as I am in the market for a new PDA, my poor T2 is starting to go on it's last legs... But it looks like I will be wanting for 2005 when the new Cobolt devices comes out.

Ever since I saw what Cobolt I knew that that was what I wanted running my next PDA. And I "almost" was tempted to the dark side...good thing that a friend talked me out of it.

[DeanDC10]

I have just returned from an outing to my local Best Buy where I have some inside connections. I had a friend look at the inventory system, and see if it gave any information on the new T5 it proved to be less informative than I expected. However I do have a definite price. The inventory system at Best Buy said it would sell for $399, my friend also commented that it had only been added to the system today.

I thought BestBuy was out of the PDA business?? Maybe not?

[hamsammich]

Nah. My local BB has a couple left at any given time, but they sell them in more abundance online.

[NJL!2016]

I thought BestBuy was out of the PDA business?? Maybe not?

BestBuy still sells PDAs on thier website, and in the stores they have a few like the Zire72 and Tugnsten|E. If you go to where they used to sell PDAs, you'll see that where the demo units used to be there are now things like MP3 players and HDD jukeboxes

[jjesusfreak01]

Your right, I was just at BB yesterday looking for a screen protectorfor my clie. Because they dont really carry many pdas, they no longer carry accessories either. The only thing they had was a 12pack of generic fellowes writerights.

[mknavydoc]

I was hoping to upgrade my NX80v to the T5. Oh well. Why bother? The T5 is 18 months behind what I already got, but at least I can 2 card slots if I want to surf with Wi-Fi and a 1.3 megapixel camera! Dell Axim 50 will likely be my next choice as most of the Docs in the hospital I work at are dumping Palm for Pocket PC since Wi-Fi drug presciption and lab retrieval is becoming the standard. It is sad, but Palm OS is currently on "Life-Support" and I think next week, if these reports are accurate, they will burn to many loyal followers for the last time.

[Gekko]

I can not believe that one of you kids or your friends that work at Staples/Office Depot/CompUSA haven't dug up a real T5 by now. I'm also surprised somebody out of the many members hasn't gone to one of these stores and cajoled some clueless clerk to "go into the back room" and see if he has a T5 in yet. With a projected Monday release, I would think they are sitting in the back room by now. I guess many care about the T5, just not that much based on the leaks and probable specs.

What's going on?

[ptmin]

We do not know what to expect next week but i am holding tight to my T3 since it seems we have to wait for T6 next year
The wiating is becoming eternity P1

[NJL!2016]

Agreed. It still puzzles me why they didn't include WiFi. Do you know how cheap it is to add an 802.11 chip to a handheld, for $400 it should have come with it. I'd have to say that at least 80% of PocketPCs have WiFi. And what's up with Cobalt?? It was announced by PalmSource at least 8 months ago. Also, why did they ditch the T|3 slider and button layout? Did alot of people complain about it?

[hamsammich]

As puzzled as we are, PalmOne is going to release this thing upon us. Blah.

TH55 or UX50, here I come!

[Gekko]

Palm OS 6 shipped on December 29, 2003

PalmSource Ships Palm OS 6 to Its Licensees

SUNNYVALE, Calif., January 6, 2004 - PalmSource, Inc. (NASDAQ: PSRC) the provider of Palm OS®, a leading operating system powering next generation mobile devices and smartphones, has shipped Palm OS 6, the next major release of its operating system, to its licensees.

PalmSource has fulfilled its commitment to deliver the next major release of the Palm OS before the end of 2003. Palm OS 6, shipped December 29, 2003, combines the flexibility, simplicity and ease of use that we believe are the hallmark of today's versions of Palm OS with the emergent operating system requirements that meet the demands anticipated for tomorrow's smart mobile devices. These requirements include modularity, multi-tasking, memory protection, robust security and state-of-the-art multimedia capabilities. Palm OS 6 enables the development of a new class of Palm Powered mobile products and strengthens PalmSource's position in the wireless and telephony markets. Palm OS 6 now joins PalmSource's growing family of product offerings.

"Palm OS 6 is a major milestone for PalmSource, and we are happy to deliver the final version on schedule," said Larry Slotnick, chief products officer at PalmSource. "We believe that our team has developed a tremendous product for our licensees to bring innovative Palm Powered mobile products into new markets."

http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/010604_os6.html

[Gekko]

I think PalmSource squandered their time through mismanagement and incompetence and inefficiency and then rushed Cobalt just to be able to say that they met the deadline (on paper) even though it wasn't ready for prime time. That's why we see no Cobalt devices almost ONE YEAR after release. Think about it, when MSFT releases a new version of Windows, how long is it before DELL puts out a PC with it? Sure, there's customization involved but it doesn't take ONE YEAR. And are you telling me that ALL LICENSEES had to do ONE YEAR+ of customization???? This excuse does not pass the smell test. Don't lie to me, Mace!!!!

[fillg2002]

Just to clarify my previous posts about Best Buy. My connection said that his store wouldnt be carrying it so it is probably online only.

[ptmin]

If T5 is on the way, and PS announced cobalt 6.1 last month, and we are not going to have cobalt in T5 now then why and what for is the announcements, and those nice and lofty screenshots, to whom and to what PDA is this cobalt for, Dell dont use Palm os neither is toshiba nor sony gone anyway and P1 is not pulling the T6 out yet we better close this thread next week and wait next spring perhaps it will rain on us then,
good weekend all of you and let's hhhhhhhoooooooppppppeeeeee for 05 10 2004.

[cst516]

I was surfing and somehow got redirected to Bizrate's site. I thought I would do a quick search for the T5 while I am her and this is what I got.

http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_info/details__cat_id--435,prod_id--124226652.html


Sorry can't insert picture.

[ptmin]

follwing this link this is the additional info:
T5 Installed Memory
The amount of memory measured in megabytes installed in the system's hardware.
32 MB:
1600 x 1200 Resolution = 108 pictures
1024 x 768 Resolution = 174 pictures
640 x 480 Resolution = 337 pictures
64 MB:
1600 x 1200 Resolution = 217 pictures
1024 x 768 Resolution = 349 pictures
640 x 480 Resolution = 677 pictures
128 MB:
1600 x 1200 Resolution = 435 pictures
1024 x 768 Resolution = 700 pictures
640 x 480 Resolution = 1355 pictures
But did not find any price, specs are few , no mention of wifi so we are waiting P1 to bring it out nextweek.

[fillg2002]

I have noticed a few sites listing a t5 cradle, is P1 really gonna sell a $400 pda and not include a cradle? Thats just cheap if thats the case!

[DeanDC10]

I can not believe that one of you kids or your friends that work at Staples/Office Depot/CompUSA haven't dug up a real T5 by now. I'm also surprised somebody out of the many members hasn't gone to one of these stores and cajoled some clueless clerk to "go into the back room" and see if he has a T5 in yet. With a projected Monday release, I would think they are sitting in the back room by now. I guess many care about the T5, just not that much based on the leaks and probable specs.

What's going on?

This is exactly how I got my T3 on September 27th last year from Office Max. Maybe I show go for a drive and see what I can find at Office Max?

[swaits]

If T5 is on the way and PS announced cobalt 6.1 last month and we are not going to have cobalt in T5 now then why and what for is the announcements and those nice and lofty screenshots, to whom and to what PDA is this cobalt for Dell dont use Palm os neither is toshiba nor sony gone anyway and P1 is not pulling the T6 out yet we better close this thread next week and wait next spring perhaps it will rain on us then
good weekend all of you and let's hhhhhhhoooooooppppppeeeeee for 05 10 2004

Dude, look for a key on your keyboard that looks like a smallt dot. It's called a period, when you press it, a symbol like this "." will appear on your screen.

--Steve

[jjesusfreak01]

Dude, look for a key on your keyboard that looks like a smallt dot. It's called a period, when you press it, a symbol like this "." will appear on your screen.

--Steve

Hey it could be a software issue. He seems to be able to use that key known as a comma, which looks like this ",".

[Gekko]

T5 Office Depot Item Number is 758488.

[Gekko]

This is exactly how I got my T3 on September 27th last year from Office Max. Maybe I show go for a drive and see what I can find at Office Max?

Dean - Go for it! Good luck!!!

[Gekko]

CST516 - Nice catch! All - Here's the text from bizrate:

Details
With 256MB of storage, the palmOne™ Tungsten™ T5 handheld lets you carry and do more. Because it has flash memory, your info is protected, even when you don't have time to recharge. The stunning 320x480 color display lets you see more in both landscape and portrait modes. Plus, you can transfer files and folders back and forth to your desktop--and use the Tungsten T5 handheld as a flash drive. And it still fits right in your pocket.

Key Features
Manufacturer Sku: 1035NA
Brand: palmOne
Product Line: Tungsten
Model: T5
BizRate Product ID: 124226652
Processor
Processor Manufacturer: Intel
Processor Speed: 416 MHz
Memory
Installed Memory: (what's this?) 256 MB

LOOKS LIKE NO-WIFI, NO COBALT OS6! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[Integrity]

Now why the hell would I pay all that extra money for an integrated 256MB USB Flash keychain thinger when I can get them on sale any week for damn near free at my local Office Depot?
I could care less about keeping my data safe after hard resets as they are already safe on a flash card, which is also cheaper than the premium they are charging for this trash.
I have never had my intelligence insulted by a company as much as PalmOne is attempting to.

[hamsammich]

"Oh, this thing is gonna sell like hotcakes..."
"The T|5 is going to outsell the T|E and the Zires..."
"What are you people complaining about? The T|5 is going to be great..."

Ok, do these people really live on planet Earth? I don't think PalmOne is going to fool even the casual or beginning PDA user with this thing. They saved a ton of money by not designing or using a different mold for the case design, why couldn't they have put that money into giving it WiFi, a voice recorder or putting a damned cradle in the box???!!!!!

:mad:

[VanHolton]

I'm thinking about upgrading my T|T next week, but I'm unsure which unit to buy. I want either T3 or T5. Does anyone think think it's better to go with T5 just to avoid the battery life and digitizer/slider problems of the T3? I know the T5 doesn't look like what everyone was hoping for, but for someone considering an upgrade, what do you think is better?

[Gekko]

Now why the hell would I pay all that extra money for an integrated 256MB USB Flash keychain thinger when I can get them on sale any week for damn near free at my local Office Depot?
I could care less about keeping my data safe after hard resets as they are already safe on a flash card, which is also cheaper than the premium they are charging for this trash.
I have never had my intelligence insulted by a company as much as PalmOne is attempting to.

They give away those damn flash keys for FREE at trade conventions!!!

The least Palm could have done was make it a GIG!

[Gekko]

I'm thinking about upgrading my T|T next week, but I'm unsure which unit to buy. I want either T3 or T5. Does anyone think think it's better to go with T5 just to avoid the battery life and digitizer/slider problems of the T3? I know the T5 doesn't look like what everyone was hoping for, but for someone considering an upgrade, what do you think is better?

I would probably get the TH55 Sony Clie if I was you - if you can find one.

TH55 Pros:
480x320 no slider
WIFI Built In
Sony Quality
Great Battery
Slim/Small Form Factor
Extra Bonus Software

TH55 Cons:
No More Sony Clies in US
Accessories may be/get tough to find
4k Memo Limit (T3/5 is 32k)
No Docs to Go?
Slower Rated Processor?
No BT (US)

I would also wait a few weeks to see what the Dell X50 brings. Maybe your best bet is to just hang on to your TT for another 6 months to a year. I see no huge upgrade for you here except for 480x320.

[Gekko]

"Oh, this thing is gonna sell like hotcakes..."
"The T|5 is going to outsell the T|E and the Zires..."
"What are you people complaining about? The T|5 is going to be great..."

Ok, do these people really live on planet Earth? I don't think PalmOne is going to fool even the casual or beginning PDA user with this thing. They saved a ton of money by not designing or using a different mold for the case design, why couldn't they have put that money into giving it WiFi, a voice recorder or putting a damned cradle in the box???!!!!!

:mad:


I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these PalmOne/Source meetings and hear how these numbskulls formulate their decisions. This is what happens when you have a bunch of never-do-well REJECTS from Apple running companies!!!

INCOMPETENCE! The financial losses/lost market share does not lie!

[VanHolton]

Thanks Gekko,

I was thinking about TH55, but I absolutely need BT. That's basically my only connection to the web which is why I was hoping for wifi in the new palm, but oh well. I would be satisfied with a T3, but I hear about so many issues with dying batteries, digitizer drift, etc. If I could pay a little more for a tablet form factor to avoid those issues I think it might be worth it. The only unknown I guess is the battery life. You would think Palm would have fixed it for this release though.

[acme]

I would wait to see what exactly happens. The $400 MSRP is "slightly" high for only a change from volatile to non-volatile memory, I don't give a damn about 256Mb memory when I can buy a 1Gb SD card for less than $100! Also, let's see if with this 256MB flash, with about 55MB for applications, we have a limited heap space like it happened on the TT, with only 700 KB, that making it impossible to run ScummVM or another nice stuff around.

We'll have to see if that price includes a bundled SD-Wifi card, in which case is not too bad in terms of value, but still is not what many people would want. On the other hand, people would like to buy the model without the SDWifi at a reasonable price, let's say around $300.

What really worries me is the possible lack of voice recorder/microphone. That's probably, on my opinion, the worse step P1 can make... even if the machine has wifi, the lack of voice recorder feature would make it almost useless for many users.

I also have a a T|T and been waiting the whole year to see if they release something with HiRes+ and wifi... but what looked like the logical step for all of us seems to be way far on P1 minds.

[Gekko]

Thanks Gekko,

I was thinking about TH55, but I absolutely need BT. That's basically my only connection to the web which is why I was hoping for wifi in the new palm, but oh well. I would be satisfied with a T3, but I hear about so many issues with dying batteries, digitizer drift, etc. If I could pay a little more for a tablet form factor to avoid those issues I think it might be worth it. The only unknown I guess is the battery life. You would think Palm would have fixed it for this release though.

You might as well just get the T5 then. I have a T3 and the slider is a biitch and I think it's the mechanics of the slider that cause the digitizer to be shiit when the slider is open. When the slider is open, the calibration of the entire bottom area of the PDA is off by like 1/2" and this is unfixable - except by maybe a hardware fix. So basically, the 480x320 is almost worthless for data input. Also you might as well pay a little more and get the T5 more memory, OS5.4 tweaks, extra features (as well as no slider). I would.

I still would wait though and see what the X50 offers before you jump to the T5.

Good luck!

[VanHolton]

Damn, only 700Kb heap?!! T3 is looking better and better. My Bhajis loops program would run so much better with more heap. Also, I'm fresh out of RAM on my TT, so I don't think I can wait another 6 months

[Gekko]

I hear several Palm apologists saying "Only power users want wifi with their pda - everyone else doesn't." I think this is BS. I know so many people with WIFI networks in their home/office/campuses/coffeshops etc. WIFI is now almost standard on all notebooks. Almost everyone wants WIFI - it almost has become a standard feature! Connectivity is what it's all about! I know nobody that uses BT but almost everyone I know uses WIFI in some way or another.

WIFI is the future! It's incredibly stupid short-sighted to think otherwise.

[acme]

Damn, only 700Kb heap?!! T3 is looking better and better. My Bhajis loops program would run so much better with more heap. Also, I'm fresh out of RAM on my TT, so I don't think I can wait another 6 months

The TT is the one that only has about 700Kb, for the T5... I wan't to see the first reviews to find out. With the new memory system, I don't know how many applications could have problems with that.

[acme]

Gekko, I agree with you, Wifi is not a power users upgrade, it's a must nowadays with the inclusion of Wifi AP in many broadband offers, hotels, etc. And another very lame excuse is this "not so important for people in Europe...".

But we have lowered so much our expectations for the T5 that now we are not thinking about the cool stuff, only that at the very least, they don't remove features already present on other machines, like the voice recorder.

[DeanDC10]

I currently have a T3 with a Keyboard, Palm Modem, PowerToGo battery, hardcase and Travel charger.

To get this T5 (TE2) and all the above accessories, if they even decide to make them for the new connector, and add WiFi it would set me back close to $900. This is crazy for a PDA.........

I sure wish that they would continue the "Universal connector", but it appears this will not be the case.... Bummer :(

[ptmin]

I agree with you ACME
but i am living in Europe and you must be here to read some threads from here about the T5, everyone is expecting wifi in the T5 and the deception is great for US, Europe, russia, japan, everywhere wifi is becoming a must have in laptops, PDA's and we hear that cobalt is being ready for smartphones, and the screenshots in the recent PS announcements there is the wifi icon in the task bar, if future smartphones are not going to be equiped with wifi then cobalt for future treo's will not have it, it seems this is where P1 is heading to treo's with cobalt.

[Integrity]

Well I'm over on the darkside at the moment.(hx4700 vga!)
Love the screen hate the size of the device more than anything, but I have to admit after a little over a week with this thing they have made leaps and bounds in stability when it comes to Windows Mobile. I was not planning on keeping the device and switching to the T5 when it came out, but that SEEMS to be unlikely at this point so it looks like I'll be going for an Ipaq rx3115 or an rx3715.
For $50.00 cheaper I can get wifi, bluetooth, and software to stream movies and music wirelessly to my PDA.
Sounds like a no brainer. The SPECULATED Palm is a total rip off and dud.

[pmconmy]

The really frustrating thing about this is that I *want* to upgrade. I want to give Palm one my money as I have a TH55 which is no longer supported and has thin on the ground accessories. But it looks like the t5 is actually a downgrade from the machine I have. What are they doing?

[Gero]

this whole wifi craze... do people really bother surfiing websites on their palms?... every time i do occasionally go online with my T3, i wanna throw the thing against the wall... Its a joke... now using wifi to download email you caold sell me.. but even then, easy enough to do that using BT... i just dont understand why wifi is such a big thing.. I mean, we have a wireless network at my company and there is probably a 50/50 divide between ppc and palm and we are given a choice by the firm as to which handset we want... Although alot of people have wifi on their handhelds.. i dont think a single person actually uses it?..

[Integrity]

Hey Gero, I use wifi all the time on the 47xx and before on my clie ux50. I use it mostly for email and the majority of the time for RSS reading.
There are tons of pda friendly websites and portals out there with tons of good content once you find them.

[pmconmy]

Flamebait from Gero but I'll bite - I use wi-fi on my pda every single day. I download my overnight e-mails to check before going to work, and also read news and many of my favourite web-sites. No it isn't as visually appealing as a pc but its an essential part of my routine. I won't buy a machine without this ability, add on perhaps but built in preferably.

[Integrity]

Oh ya I almost forgot, I also use it a bunch while on trips. It surprises me more and more when I'm in po-dunk county staying at some hotel and they have free wifi access. That's the pathetic part, these guys know the advantage of having free wifi access, yet a multimillion dollar company built on portable convienient devices can't seem to get trivial things like this through it's thick skull!
Have to wait and see if this thing is for real before I really start the bashing. If it is I must admit I have no loyalty to Palm and will gladly see them drown at that point. I think most would agree with me that they would deserve it.

[Jukov]

I serf for 3-4 hours each day on my T3 using BT and would love to go WiFi

[VanHolton]

Me too. My T-Mobile bill last month weighed in at 46.85MB!

[Jukov]

Me too. My T-Mobile bill last month weighed in at 46.85MB!
He-he! I beat you - 73.55 MB :D

[VanHolton]

...My Man!!

[Jukov]

yeh. But It's easer for me as I subscribed for 100MB for 11$

[VanHolton]

T-Mobile?? I have an unlimited plan, but this is the most I've ever used. If yours is T-Mobile, I'm switching.

[Jukov]

Oh no! Sorry, it's Orange.

[jjesusfreak01]

I have a non T-mobile thought.

There is actually nothing bad about the T5, considering it is a Tungsten. The TT was very basic, The T2 had a few more features, such as more memory. The T3 was a large step, with a hi-res+ screen. The T5 is equally dramatic. It has a new updated os(5.4), and a completely new memory structure.

[PixelPusher]

One thing about surfing using BT (and your cell phone), it is available almost everywhere.

Free WiFi hasn't been available too often in my experience. (I have a Tungsten C).

-Eric

[nmitchell]

I predict that the goals of the Tungsten T5 are to try and recreate the previous success of the Palm V/Vx. By this I refer to the basic design goals/philosophy of the V/Vx i.e. simplicity and portability particularly in terms of how thin the V/Vx was. This was an extremely attractive (and successful) form factor due (partly/mostly) to how thin it was.

I predict that the T5 is Palm’s attempt to rekindle the success of this form factor and that it will be a very thin device. Have you noticed how none of the leaked pictures show the side form factor? This also would explain why the specification that is being discussed seems to be so “limited” (e.g. no WiFi etc). The form factor simply would not allow a high feature set.

Now to contradict myself the current images that are circulating on the web show curved sides that suggests a not-so-thin design. However, we have all seen a bunch of hoax’s when it comes to posted images including the speculation that these are a hoax too. Yep, this is Photoshop’ed as the time at the top left of the screen (7.01am) does not match the information bar’s time at the bottom of the screen (9:27) (http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=515). This is impossible to recreate on a real system.

Finally, I do know someone who works in a non-technical role at PalmOne. They have conveyed how strict they are getting in all matters that relate to keeping information from leaking out. This goes all the way down to no memos/documents being allowed out on people’s desks when they are not present. Company emails go around to remind people of this and the security guards “remind” people who do not carry out these requests. So perhaps PalmOne has successfully kept this device under wraps.

Anyway, I guess we’ll all find out next week (maybe?). The other speculation is that the reason we do not know more about this device so close to its launch is that it will not launch for sometime yet

I am optimistic; I hope we’ll see a super-slim device launched next week.

Neil

[NJL!2016]

Yeah, but alot of companies make stupid p'shop screenshot mistakes too. (Like Sony when they had the SJ33 with VG)

[hamsammich]

I predict that the T5 is Palm’s attempt to rekindle the success of this form factor and that it will be a very thin device. Have you noticed how none of the leaked pictures show the side form factor? This also would explain why the specification that is being discussed seems to be so “limited” (e.g. no WiFi etc). The form factor simply would not allow a high feature set.

Not true. Look at the UX50, the TH55, the TJ37...all have miniscule profiles yet include WiFi. The antenna is fairly small and integrating that into the rest of the device takes up minimal space. P1 could have included WiFi (if it isn't, indeed, in the T|5) very easily...for some reason, they chose not to.

Bad PalmOne.

:mad:

[Odessa]

re: Tungsten T5 = Modern Palm V/Vx

Unfortunately for P1 the world has moved on, we now want more from our PDA's. Palm should address what its loyal base wants, and not build units for its own amusement.

[Gero]

I hear several Palm apologists saying "Only power users want wifi with their pda - everyone else doesn't." I think this is BS. I know so many people with WIFI networks in their home/office/campuses/coffeshops etc. WIFI is now almost standard on all notebooks. Almost everyone wants WIFI - it almost has become a standard feature! Connectivity is what it's all about! I know nobody that uses BT but almost everyone I know uses WIFI in some way or another.

WIFI is the future! It's incredibly stupid short-sighted to think otherwise.

I think 'almost everyone wants wifi' is a bit over the top.. maybe in the states, but in the Uk its still emerging... there are only two university's in the UK with wireless campuses... i spend 20 minutes every morning at liverpool street station (which is a wifi hotspot) and very rarely see anyone online. Even though starbucks have wifi hotspots in the UK, its expensive to surf (£3/$7). Whilst wifi may be a big thing in the USA, its not yet in europe and probably needs another year. By that time i expect we will see palmOne devices with wifi. It wouldnt suprise me if its just a case of palmOne planning to re-introduce wifi with OS6 devides next spring.

WIFI is the future! It's incredibly stupid short-sighted to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Your probably right... and i doubt palmOne disagree.. there just arent quite there yet in implementing it.

Also.. if wifi is a big deal in the USA and 'everybody' uses it as i keep reading in this forum... why isnt EVERY pocket pc wifi enabled?.. why is it that its only the $500 to $600 models that have it?.. That ceratinly suggests to me that only those serious pda users that are pepared to spend alot of money on their pda. If your arverage pda buyer was soo conserned about wifi, they would be demanding it of the base ppc models and i expect we would have seen it considering the number of ppc producers and inherent competition/innovation that produces.

I would be interested in using wifi... but i'm not about to connect 3 times a day over the duration of the day at 3x £3 ($20 a day). When you start to see the ISP in the UK operating hotspots and then allowing you to access them for free under your ISP plans.. then i think wifi will become more useable..

How does it work in the US?.. when you walk into a starbucks in the morning and connect, can you then walk back in at different times in the day and re-connect under whatever cost the initial connection was?.. AND what do you pay to connect ?...

[Gero]

Hey Gero, I use wifi all the time on the 47xx and before on my clie ux50. I use it mostly for email and the majority of the time for RSS reading.
There are tons of pda friendly websites and portals out there with tons of good content once you find them.

Fair enough.. i can imagine wifi is very useful for email (although thats easy enough to do with BT). Just read tha BT Openzone, one of the biggest ISP's in the UK is to allow people to access wifi at their hot spots under monthly plans starting at £10 ($20) a month for 120 minutes access!!!!!! Think we have a ways to go yet in the UK!!!

[sth]

Bluetooth is just short-range stuff. It's not compareable.

Only 2 campuses in the UK have WiFi? Here in germany even small universities have WiFi networks (it will be hard to find a campus that hasn't a WiFi network) and many people have it at home since the online companies are pushing it.

[Gero]

Bluetooth is just short-range stuff. It's not compareable.

Only 2 campuses in the UK have WiFi? Here in germany even small universities have WiFi networks (it will be hard to find a campus that hasn't a WiFi network) and many people have it at home since the online companies are pushing it.

Awww but then Germany is way ahead of the UK on many things! haha probably get told off now for saying that!!! So what proportion of student would you say wirelessly surf on pda's?..

[hamsammich]

Fair enough.. i can imagine wifi is very useful for email (although thats easy enough to do with BT).

Yes, but how many people already own a BT phone? Not as many as you would think. And, how many are going to fork over $400 for a PDA, and then turn around and spend almost as much on a BT phone? Why spend that much money on two devices when one WiFi enabled device would suffice?

WiFi access, although not as widespread as you said (as in the U.K., apparently), is the future...at least for the next few years. I don't care what apologists say, it is the future of wireless in the forseeable future. If PalmOne isn't on board with it, people will move on to devices that do have it.

[pmconmy]

It depends what you mean by "wi-fi access on campus". I work in a computer science
department which has wi-fi access for its students and know of at least one other comp sci department with the same. I can't believe they are the only two in the country! Its not a general thing for all students but its definitely on the rise. Is it preston town centre that has a free hotspot now too?

[Antoine]

The TT is the one that only has about 700Kb, for the T5... I wan't to see the first reviews to find out. With the new memory system, I don't know how many applications could have problems with that.

It has a lot more ;)

[atraum]

I of course would also require 802.11 in the T5 to make this a viable upgrade to my aging TT and have the cash and patience to wait it out (I hope). If it does not release on the T5 my assumption is that there is still a battery issue, it's one thing to see the available connections that are accessible but more importantly have the power to transmit at certain ranges. Another assumption I must have due to all the speculation/rumors is that this device will not include 802.11, we will see soon. I don't think I will be swayed to a Windows PDA that currently offers this option but only time will tell, I can probably hold out until February, probably.

My main question deals with the potential OS for the T5. I have read in multiple speculations that it will be 5.x which my assumption is the Garnet OS developed for future lower end devices. I thought 6.x, Cobalt, was to be used for future high end devices.

[NJL!2016]

Mabye palmOne has plans for another handheld later on with 802.11 and Cobalt.

[sth]

So what proportion of student would you say wirelessly surf on pda's?..
Can't tell... (don't know how many use PDAs at all)
From the notebook users, nearly 100% use WiFi on the Campus.

I'm currently looking for a PDA that I can primarily use as an MP3/OGG-Player but that can also be used to manage my calendar and adresses / sync with a mobile phone via BT, take quick notes / sketches and also check my e-mail or quickly google for something (so I don't need to take out and boot my notebook for such things).

If Palm bundles the WiFi SD-Card with the T5 and the device has two SD-Slots so that one can still use a memory-card at the same time, it would be OK. But I don't think they will bundle it :( . 400EUR T5 + 130EUR WiFi-Card is too much in my Opinion.

Furthermore I want to see Cobalt on this device.

[hamsammich]

Just some extraneous information from my region (SouthWest Missouri)...all the office supply and electronics stores seem not to know a single thing about the T|5 (surprise, surprise). I wonder if they won't actually be in stores for a week or better.
???

[PDA Expert]

Yet another disappointment from PalmOne. I miss Sony... :(

[Gero]

Yes, but how many people already own a BT phone? Not as many as you would think. And, how many are going to fork over $400 for a PDA, and then turn around and spend almost as much on a BT phone? Why spend that much money on two devices when one WiFi enabled device would suffice?

WiFi access, although not as widespread as you said (as in the U.K., apparently), is the future...at least for the next few years. I don't care what apologists say, it is the future of wireless in the forseeable future. If PalmOne isn't on board with it, people will move on to devices that do have it.

Sorry, by BT i meant check emails via bluetooth.


But dont get me wrong.. i think your right ... and i expect palmOne will be 'onboard' with when they have cobalt running.

[sth]

I can't wait for the real announcement. I hate these speculations without hard facts.

The only shop having a sign of the T5 (with a pic) is Amazon but they are known for sometimes just printing some random info from the web just for being the first.

The specs that are more or less taken as real differ a bit from site to site. Some specs say 416mhz CPU, others say 525mhz and things like that...

And someone at pdaforum.de wrote that the T5 pic we all know is really just a photoshopped TE.

[Gekko]

new spy pic

http://www.nexave.de/img/669.jpg

thanks to luke.skywalker

[DeanDC10]

It figures that it is out of focus.........

Just makes you wonder, especially since it is exactly the same screen you've seen on all the other photos.

[palmato]

In case anyone wonders, on that picture you don't see model name and Palmone logo because they were both erased by the poster. A serial number was also present and could be used to track down whoever leaked the device.
Picture was taken during the European Devcon.

[Herr Kolb]

At http://www.nexave.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=9837&sid=&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=38 you can find a new image of the new tungsten. it was taken at the Palmsource DevCon in Munic last last week.

[luke.skywalker]

the image was taken away.
but i captured it :)

[winexprt]

At http://www.nexave.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=9837&sid=&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=38 you can find a new image of the new tungsten. it was taken at the Palmsource DevCon in Munic last last week.

Herr Kold (i feel like i'm in a WWII movie sayin' that! lol ), I can't find any pic of the T|5 at the link you gave. :(

[The Mad Dog]

the image was taken away.
but i captured it :)

can you please delete the Attachment? thanks

[nexave user]

The picture has been taken off the forum but the news corner still has it under http://www.nexave.de/news/show.php?id=1458
Please take the cutten image from the news item for future use.

[luke.skywalker]

can you please delete the Attachment? thanks

aber klar. :)
done !

[winexprt]

OK...I found them. They're really nothing that we haven't seen before. :(

http://www.nexave.de/img/668.gif

http://www.nexave.de/img/669.jpg

http://www.nexave.de/news/show.php?id=1458

[luke.skywalker]

OK...I found them. They're really nothing that we haven't seen before. :(

http://www.nexave.de/news/show.php?id=1458

what did you expect ?
now we know that the amazon pictures were right and no fake.
more of, the source taking the picture confirmed the specs:

metal case
garnet 5.4
no wifi
256mb ram( 160mb sd-ram + 64 mb standard ram + 32mb heap)
usb mass-storage mode.

[winexprt]

what did you expect ?

What did I expect!? Um...lemmie think...that's a tough one....how about some NEW PICS. What else would I expect? More of the same? ;)

Why would I want to see the same pics I've seen 50 times before? Usually when someone says they have new pics...they usually show NEW pics. lol