Background MP3 play for T615C/T415C, SL./SJ with PEGA-SA10 Audio Adapter

[Paratus]

Since we lost so much good knowledge I thought I would help fill in some of it.


For Christmas I received the Sony Audio Adapter PEGA-SA10 and was disappointed to find that the Audio Player 1.0 that it came with did not allow for playing music in the background. So I turned to the only place a Sony Clie user can turn when having problems: Sony Support (just kidding). I searched Cliesource and found some really good info…. Which was lost in the great Purge of 2003.

Anyway here is what I did to listen to mp3s while I write this post in Docs To Go Pre 5.0 (another Christmas gift)

1) I installed Audio Player 1.0 and the Audio Adapter as directed by the instructions

2) I hotsynced & used MSBackup to make sure I could recover if something went wrong

3) To get Audio Player 2.2.1 which comes with the T665C and allows playing in the background I went to www.groups.yahoo.com and searched for the "nXt Clie" group. I joined the group and downloaded the player from the files section.

4) To load the new player I moved two of the Audio Player 2.2.1 files:
AudioPlayer.prc
AudioPlayerSkin.prc
to my MS using MSImport into a folder I created with Windows Explorer.

I then moved the Audio Player 1.0 files:
AudioPlayer.prc
AudioPlayerSkin.prc
with FileZ to a different folder I created on my MS.

5) Finally I copied the two Audio Player 2.2.1 files to internal RAM with FileZ.

I did it this way instead of just hotsyncing all of the new files over the old ones so I could control exactly which files were installed and so I knew I had a copy of the original files. As it turns out the 2 files above are the only ones you need. The zip file with Audio Player 2.2.1 comes with a bunch of dsp utility files which I didn't seem to need.

5) The last step was to launch the new Audio Player and enable background play. Tap the drop menu icon and select Option/Preferences. Then check the "Enable Background Play" check box. Hit play and your ready rock! :)

How Well Does It Work?

It works pretty well. The inline remote will work from any other application with Enable Background Play checked. That means even if the unit is off 1 press of the play button will turn the unit on and start the music. It also means that you can change songs with the |<< and >>| buttons without going back to the Audio Player.

Don't worry about using the MS for other apps. I managed to launch the 3Mb Grand Theft Auto Demo with the help of PiDirect from the MS without crashing while listening to MP3s. The music did slow and skip a bit towards the end of the transfer however.


Things to watch out for:
Certain applications will not work correctly when "Enable Background Play" is active. The only one I've found so far is Kinoma Player. If you try to play a Kinoma video that was recorded in Clie sound and enable background play is active you will get a fatal error and have to perform a soft reset. You can still use videos recorded with Yahama ADPCM sound that works throught the speaker. If you want to use video with clie sound you must disable background play first.

Also remember not to turn off your CLIE before stopping the music. I made the mistake of shutting my Clie off while writing this post in Docs to Go and listening MP3s. It ended up corrupting the file when I tried to turn the clie back on and I ended up having to soft reset twice.

One other thing to watch for is that 2.2.1 has an extra display mode that does not work on the T-615C. If you select the middle display icon from upper right of the Audio Player you will seem some random colored shapes blinking around. If you then the select the "VE" button which I think brings up the equilzer you'll crash the audio player and have to perform a reset or two.

And last but not least. Version 2.2.1 on the T-615C will not re-scan the MSAudio directory when Enable Background Play is active. So if you delete or move any MP3s make sure you disable background play exit Audio Player and then restart the app. If you don’t it tends to have a hard time updating the playlist.

Conclusion:

If you remember to disable background play when you're not using it and don't turn the clie off while listing to MP3s and editing documents, it works great. (Also don't use that VE thing) It really increases the enjoyment of the Audio Adapter to be able to play MP3s and use the Clie at the same time.

Pros:
Background Play
Bass Boost Button
You can leave the pda in your pocket and turn it on and start listening without touching it with the inline remote. Not even the T665C can do that!

Cons:
Interferes with Kinoma videos recorded in clie sound when enabled
A bit unstable if you turn the Clie off before stopping the song if background play is enabled.
Will cause reset if the Equalizer "VE" mode is used.
Neither 1.0 or 2.2.1 lets you run mp3s or clie sound videos through the speaker, nor can you play Yamaha encoded movies through the headphones

I don't have a lot of time to post so if anyone has questions please bear with me on the answers.

Paratus

"Failure is not an option" Gene Kranz"Flight" Apollo 13
:)

[williepalm]

Thanks for the info.

[tanker_bob]

Background play was really designed for the T665C and NR-series in OS 4. These have a dedicated DSP for MP3 play to eliminate that load from their 66 MHz CPU. Your T615C and SJ-series must time share the CPU for foreground apps and background MP3 play, and some CPU-intensive or timing-sensitive apps just won't like that. Plus, their slower 33 MHz CPUs don't have much extra time to share.

[Zork]

Paratus, thinking bout buying the PEGA-SA10 too. Is there some way to turn the screen off while listening ? Listening at background is useful too, if you have to enter some note while hearing your MP3 stuff, but saving battery life is real concern. And I think at the 675 you could turn of the screen and still hearing the music.

[tanker_bob]

Zork,

No. You need a 'Hold' button for that, which the T615C doesn't have. The 'Hold' button disables not only the screen, but the CPU and all input buttons, leaving just the DSP and audio system operating.

[elguapo80]

Zork,
I use the audio adaptor with my SJ30 and just turn the backlit off when I'm listening to music. I can go for almost 2 hours with the battery fully charged before it begins to drop. So far it has worked great, and I'm real happy with it. However, the next PDA I buy will definitely have a built in MP3 player.

[Vince]

Thanks for this information - with my bday coming up I have been wondering whether to get an MP3 player or convert my 615C. I am collecting info to weigh up my choices.

Could you tell me about:
- How long your battery lasts playing MP3's?
- Sound quality?
- What files can you play on it? Is it the Sony standard (I forget the name, but their other players seem to have to first convert music to their own standard ie NETMD's) or does it also play MP3 files etc?
- Is the software PC only - or is there a work around for Mac users? ie Can you plant MP3 files straight onto the MS and then the App will be able to access it from there?

Thanks

Vince

[Zork]

Vince, you should already know i n the meantime, that you could mount your MS on your Mac Desktop with Missing Sync ;) . That way you transfer the MP3 files to your MS.
And it plays MP3 files not just that whatever Sony stuff.

[Zork]

Question I forgot : Whats with the 2 minute Inactivity means shut down ? Is that deactivated automatically while usin Audio Player ?
And what bout the hardware buttons ? Are they locked during playback (thats very important while you have the Clie inside your pocket - especially the Back button).
And bout the screen : Isnt there any tool which could turn off the screen, while everything else is working as usual ? Sometimes the lack of real world tools for the Clie is at best surprising (for example there is still no tool which transfer files directly from MS to MS (w/o caching first at internal which limits the filesize)).

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by Vince
Could you tell me about:
- How long your battery lasts playing MP3's?
- Sound quality?
- What files can you play on it? Is it the Sony standard (I forget the name, but their other players seem to have to first convert music to their own standard ie NETMD's) or does it also play MP3 files etc?
- Is the software PC only - or is there a work around for Mac users? ie Can you plant MP3 files straight onto the MS and then the App will be able to access it from there?

Thanks

Vince
1) Don't know, because I've never tested it or run it to ground, so to speak. The manual says that even after the low battery warning comes on during MP3 play, other PDA functions may be available for a time. They don't explain if that's while playing in the background or on Hold. My guess is the former, as MP3 play doesn't seem to be as draining as using the PDA w/the screen on, but I haven't done a format test.
2) Pretty good. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I heard it. I don't own a dedicated MP3 player, so can't compare to one of those. I use 96 Kbps to save space, and it sound pretty good, not like home audio, but good enough.
3) Standard MP3s work fine. I never use Sony's ATRAC3 format, as I don't care for proprietary formats.
4) The audio player doesn't care where the MP3s came from. As long as you can get them from your Mac to the memory stick in the /Palm/Programs/MSAudio/ directory, you're in good shape.

Hope all that helps.

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by Zork
Question I forgot : Whats with the 2 minute Inactivity means shut down ? Is that deactivated automatically while usin Audio Player ?
And what bout the hardware buttons ? Are they locked during playback (thats very important while you have the Clie inside your pocket - especially the Back button).
And bout the screen : Isnt there any tool which could turn off the screen, while everything else is working as usual ? Sometimes the lack of real world tools for the Clie is at best surprising (for example there is still no tool which transfer files directly from MS to MS (w/o caching first at internal which limits the filesize)).
1) On the T665C, autooff is disabled during play. Since the audio player runs in the background on the T665C, the bottons work normally while playing. If the Hold button is activated, the buttons are likewise deactivated.
2) Not sure what you mean about lack of tools. i use McFile to transfer files across directories, but McFile and MS Gate work fine too. If you mean across separate cards, then you have to have some intermediate media to effect the transfer.

[Zork]

Tanker-Bob, i meant a tool where i could beam for example a file with 12 MB, which is played on my MS to some other Clie which also has a memory stick with 12 MB free RAM. But both devices indeed doesnt have that much internal RAM free. So it must be some tool which loads from MS while beaming and on the other side writes to MS while beaming (by for example splitting the files into packages with .pdb extensions which lets the Palm OS think that everything is fine ;) and at the other end joining this packages on the MS again (all done at background automatically, so that the user doesnt have to waste time then with joining or splitting a few dozen files manually :) ). This shouldnt be any technical prob, cause MS read and write is way faster then IR transfer bandwidth). Im wondering that such a tool doesnt already exist, cause most of us have MS in the meantime and most of us have therefor in the meantime either files which doesnt use either the .pdb or .prc extension (this prob could be solved with kewl CFZap tool) or files which are way larger then free internal RAM (and every beamed file is cached at internal completely before its getting beamed. Same for receiving.
ps : thx for the nfo bout the Audio Player. So it wont shut down automatically during playing.

[tanker_bob]

Zork,

McFile will beam files directly from stick to stick if the receiving stick has McFile active with a card diretory active. There is also a free utility called CFZap that supposedly beams directly between cards, but I haven't tested that one.

[Zork]

Tanker_Bob, already tried that with McFile. But that one stores the data temporarly at the internal RAM first too. Ever tried to beam for example a 20 MB file via McFile ?

[tanker_bob]

No. You might try CFZap, or transfer through your desktop computer.

[Zork]

Already mentioned CFZap. That one is the best tool out there which comes near that goal (that way you could at least redirect non prc and pdb files directly to MS). But it still caches the complete data at the internal RAM. And needing a Desktop to solve a mobile prob isnt really the mobile way to solve a prob ;) . But thx for your suggestion.

[Orion]

Vince or anybody that's wondering... it's better to keep your clie and mp3 seperate especially if it's not built in... i own two devices, the t-615, and Iriver Ifp-180... the 615 could run many hours and then it'll need a charge, plus if i use the adapter aswell it'll drain faster... so on a long trip it won't be useful and you'll need to charge longer every night that means more electricity (not a big factor, but think of the kittens (?)). My IFP can run for 20 hours before the battery's fully drained. Most mp3 players no can support up to that much or more. Also, mp3 players are made for music. I mean my player can customize 8 or 9 playback settings, playlist order, equalizer, voice record, fm radio, fm record, bass and treble setting and a whole bunch of stuff that pda's won't offer (yet).


NetMD's are awesome when it comes to batteries but if you're going to get mp3 type audio player you should stay away from Sony until hackers can get around their programs. Sony audio players are crazy about copyright protections.... but when it comes to the end it's still your call...

[Paratus]

Tanker_Bob:
In terms of cpu utilization while using background play I really don't see any slow down. The only impact is when I try to access very large files off of the memory stick at the same time I'm listening to mp3s. I do find it interesting that the PDA can interleve 2 data streams at the same time from the stick. Granted it does not work as seemlessly as the T665C but it does work well enough with caveats I mentioned in my post that I don't think I'm going back to ver 1.0. I should have warned people though that this is not for beginners because ver 2.2.1 was never designed for the T-615C.

Zork:
As Tanker_Bob already said there is no way to turn off the screen but turning off the backlight helps a lot. From a full charge (4.23V), I've listened to 90 minutes worth of music and only dropped to 3.81V (min is 3.38V). Auto off is disabled on the T-615C as well, as long as an mp3 is playing. If you stop it the Clie will turn off, but you can wake it up just by hittin the play button on the in-line remote

Orion:
It really depends on your needs. I already carry to many gadgets to work so I don't want to take a dedicated mp3 player. You can also use it to listen to kinoma movies in stereo, so it has more use than just an mp3 player. I do agree that a dedicated mp3 player will always be better than an add on to pda however.

Vince:
As other have said I can get more than 2 hours of use on a single charge. (I am glad though that I got a second cradle for home, orignal is at work, because I drain the battery even faster now)

Now goodnight all

Paratus

[Vince]

Thanks everyone for all your info - mighty useful methinks! I guess it's OK for short trips here and there, but I hate running out of batteries and not being able to top up - a mayor dread! I am still unsure at this point, so I might just leave it for now and study up on some more dedicated MP3's. It's the battery life that I am mostly worried about. I use my Clie a lot it seems, and I find that the battery drains fast enough as it is. Even though I find it a hassle to have to carry around lots of gadgets, being a gadget freak, I also kinda love it I guess. Maybe sometime in the distant future a device will come out the size of my 615, but with changable batteries like the new Clie NZ90. I personally wouldn't mind OS 6x either, since OS 5x can't quite convince me to upgrade just yet!

Anyway - all your info and advice has helped and enlightened me a lot. Thanks again!

Vince

[Unregistered]

To whom it may concern, I got a SA10 for Christmas for my T615C, and with my backlight turned off, I get 178 minutes of playtime off of a full charge before the music drops out. I've had my 615C since they first came out, so I can't say what state my battery is in.

[Gazpacho]

Now, I have bought myself an SA10 too, and did everything following the instructions in the first post. But still I don't seem to be able to use background play. As the hardware of the SJ30 and the t615 should be equal, are there any hints to what I am doing wrong?

Any help is appreciated.

Edit: Never mind. It was FastCPU. The SA10 audio adapter will not work under any program overclocked > 33 MHz

[jamiemac]

Great Forum,

My 665 audio player 2.2.1 has recently refused to play any of my previouslt fine MP3's. Can't figure it out at all? Done a hard reset, you can scroll forward to any track u like but when u press play it beeps but does not start playing. Songs are 64kpbs 44.1 Mhz on a blue unportected 64 Mb stick. I am realy missing my music..

jamie.macdonald@broad.net.au

[Unregistered]

year and a half later, THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this

[COmedic04]

I have a SJ22 and an SA10, and even though I didn't even have a PDA back when all this info was posted, it has helped immensely!! Thank you to all involved! :-)

[tanker_bob]

:)

[Paratus]

COmedic04 / Unregistered

Your welcome!

[archangel]

Streaming audio with Pocket Tunes works great on m NX80. I've only noticed the clicking with MP3s on the memory stick and CF card, but turning off Zlauncher hasn't fixed it. No clicking when streaming audio though.

[COmedic04]

Hi, my name's Ryan Johnson, I own an SJ22 and just bought an audio adapter for it. I'm having some problems getting it to work and since this forum has so much great info about the SA10, I figured maybe I could ask a couple questions about making it work and get some good feedback! :-)

I downloaded version 2.2.1 from nXt's yahoo club and loaded it on my Clie. Opened the program and it appeared to work fine, so I put some mp3's on my memstick in the Palm/Programs/MSaudio folder, using MSimport. They showed up in the list on Audio Player, but when I tap play, or tap on a track, a get a Fatal Alert that says:
"MemoryMgr .c, Line:3307, Invalid card #"

Any ideas? I'm bummed that it's not working...if anyone has some time, maybe you can help me troubleshoot it a little? Thanks a lot!

Ryan

[tanker_bob]

Hmmm. Doesn't Sony's Audio Player that comes on SJ-33s, T-665C, etc., use the DSP that's not in the SJ22? Did a program come with the audio adapter? Did you try it if it did? I'm just guessing that some versions of Audio Player weren't meant for non-DSP equiped devices.

[COmedic04]

Bob,

Yeah, the PEGA-SA10 adapter came with the AudioPlayer 1.1, which, honestly I didn't try, I was a little over-zealous and just loaded the AudioPlayer 2.2.1 so I could get background play and then tried it. So maybe I'll go back and try the 1.1 version first, see if that works. Then I'll try 2.2.1 again to see if it works.
I'm sure there must just be something missing, because I know a couple people on this site who have the SJ-22, and use the AudioPlayer 2.2.1 and it works great. So I'm puzzled...

Ryan

[npcmoses1_39]

I also got a SA10 for my SJ22. When I press the play an error message that says there is an error in tranfering the data. I installed all the software just as explained in the instructions. Why is it not working?
Thanks

[npcmoses1_39]

Does anyone know the answer to my question?

[El Maquinas]

Does anyone know the answer to my question?

May be you have the Ir port activated, try to disable it and then Start Audio Player Again.