Apps that affect Performance...

[Charmeleon76m]

As it seems the performance numbers seem to be a hot topic, it seems to be a good idea to start a thread that shows just how much certain apps affect the performance of the Clie (TH55). Using Igor's wonderful app "palm internals", I have noticed that there are quite a few popular apps that slows down the performance of TH55, which seems to be most noticeable when running the picsel viewer. I have listed some apps that I have tested here. It would be wonderful if others add to this and perhaps suggest a good alternatives that don't slow down the PDA so much.

DA Launcher: Performance reduction depends on the type of DAs installed/active.
HBX
Hi-Launcher
WA Clock: Depends on number of different cities the times are set for, as well as the number of alarms set. With 3 cities set and no alarm, it slowed to 27 seconds from 4 seconds.
Launcher skins/VG/Status bar: I'm not sure if it does for all launchers and skins, but the one I've tested seems to.
THe Go! Go!

With all these installed, mine was running at 386 seconds, and picsel viewer took way longer than 30 seconds.

NOT affected
SetAutoOff
SharkLens: minimal slowdown, but conflict with picsel viewer.

[Jayman]

Wow, I did not realize the WA Clock actually slowed down performance... I have WA Clock, Zlauncher, Agendus, A couple VG Skins and everything still works fine for me. I can watch movies and do all the wonderful things that make my Clie so wonderful.

[JulianL]

I emailed my concerns about the handling of the hede event to the author of Hi-Launcher. He emailed me back within a couple of days (probably after he had done his own tests using PalmInternals) and told me that he would be changing his hede event handling code to use the faster callback method in "the very next release". Unfortunately the other company I emailed about slow handling of hede notifications gave a far less encouraging response.

Personally I'd advise you to "keep the faith" with Hi-Launcher since I think it will be fixed (and the author owns a TH55 so we know it will be especially stable on our platform).

- Julian

[Charmeleon76m]

Wow, I did not realize the WA Clock actually slowed down performance... I have WA Clock, Zlauncher, Agendus, A couple VG Skins and everything still works fine for me. I can watch movies and do all the wonderful things that make my Clie so wonderful.

The performance slowdown with WA Clock is minimal compared to other apps I mentioned b4. Plus, even with everything installed (and when it was running at 386 seconds), I didn't really notice the slowdown at all. The only thing that was extremely noticeable was the picsel viewer (4 seconds loading time to over 30). Oh, I forgot. I could notice the slowdown in the built-in flash player. The flash games were practically unplayable. The good news is that I still have Agendus Pro, and that doesn't seem to affect performance at all. As I understand it, someone (sorry, I forgot who, but I think it was Igor, CliePet and/or Sharkboy) had said that only the apps that "stays on" all the time affect performance. Also, the encoding seems to matter. Most--if not all--of the apps that I have mentioned seemed to be coded with a68k. Apparently, if it was coded with ARM, it would be much more efficient.

I miss all those wonderful apps... I hope that they will get updated soon. I'm running at bare minimal now.

[m8rk]

:eek: Wow! :D

After much painful pruning - I had to leave Hi-Launcher and Default Capture [I really didn't want to live without these!] - and not being able to get below the 110sec barrier, I finally took the plunge and removed them...

WoW! what a difference to the overall performance of my TH55! I reset, and was prepared for my usual 10[ish] second wait - and it was up immediately! I flicked around and things were running instantly! Even PicselViewer was usable!

I found DA Launcher didn't affect my test results at all [i'm running ClipMemoDA, NetConnectDA and ToDoDA], in fact when I put it back on, my results went from 4 secs to 3! So i'm less saddenned at the loss of Hi Launcher

Thankyou [B]Igor for the amazing tool, and everyone else involved in this topic. I'm ecstatic at this!!! :D

[JulianL]

:eek: Wow! :D

After much painful pruning - I had to leave Hi-Launcher and Default Capture [I really didn't want to live without these!]
Glad it's worked out so well for you. As I said in a previous post, I really don't think you'll have to worry for too long about Hi-Launcher, I did get a very positive reply from Hi-Launcher's author to my suggestions regarding hede handling so I hope that it will be faster in the next release. I can't live without Hi-Launcher either. Here is the response I got: Thanks for pointing these issues! I never thought about Hi-Launcher's speed on Palm OS 5, as it works that fast for me, that I don't see the difference. Anyway, this might be causing other problems like faster battery drain. That's why I will be changing it for sure. I think I will use the callback method as it seems to be easy to implement. Expect the changes in the very next release.

[jwu]

Yes, TheGoGo *greatly* affect system performance. After removing it, I can now feel the 'speed' when playing Bejeweled in my TH55.

If you're stilling using TheGoGo, try disabling it and play Bejeweled, you'll definitely see the difference.

[JulianL]

Yes, TheGoGo *greatly* affect system performance. After removing it, I can now feel the 'speed' when playing Bejeweled in my TH55.

If you're stilling using TheGoGo, try disabling it and play Bejeweled, you'll definitely see the difference.
That's interesting. My interest is much more in battery life than performance, but one thing that I have noticed in the month that I have had my TH55 is that Bejewelled is the biggest battery killer that I have on my PDA. The fact that you really notice the impact of TheGoGo does imply that Bejewelled is generating a lot of events for the system to handle and so the more "hangers on" that there are requesting event notification on every event the more CPU cycles are being wasted.

- Julian

[winexprt]

I just got my TH55 last week, and thank god I read all the posts about THeGoGo. No way I'm puttin' that thing on my shiny new TH55.

My two cents. I sold my UX50 & moved on to the TH55. I know I know...internally the two machines are supposed to be the same, (HHE, etc.) but I noticed after using my TH55 for a while that I can honestly say it seems faster than my old UX50. Not by a whole lot but it is definately noticable. Am I the only one who's noticed this?

[junrenshi]

I add one that greatly impacts the performance: CodeDiver. With it turns on, the speed test takes 70 seconds vs. 3 seconds without it. Picsel takes >20 seconds vs. 4 seconds to start.

Anyone knows substitution for codediver? I use it for some apps to utilize the full 320x480 screen. But the slowdown is too much to tolerate.

[ethangarner]

Thanks to all for this thread, and to igor for the app. I found a number of apps that were making my UX50 crawl.

Codediver from 3 to 100 sec
Tealscript from 3 to 50 sec (guess I should learn grafitti 2)
Fonts4os5 NO speed decrease if you turn off the table.c correction and the whitespace in menu corrections. If these are on then it goes from 3 to 40 seconds.

VG, SB skinning has no effect.

My ux is a new beast.

[JulianL]

Tealscript from 3 to 50 sec (guess I should learn grafitti 2)
Learn Graffiti 2? I tried and failed. It isn't as bad as that though, you should be able to download the original Graffiti 1 prcs and use Graffiti Anywhere. I have been comparing TealScript and Graffiti Anywhere + Graffiti 1 PRC for the last few weeks, I tend to alternate between them. One of my problems is that I've just got so used to TealScript's flexibility and virtually flawless recognition. After using TealScript for a while I'm now even having trouble with basic Graffiti 1, I've got out of the habit of writing an "e" as a backward "3", with TealScript I can just write it as a normal "e".

I also did some serious benchmarking with Igor's program and I found that for me the 2 big slowdowns (well, the only slowdowns really) were Hi-Launcher and TealScript. I emailed both companies about their applications and the slowdowns they cause. I got a very quick and very positive response from Hi-Launcher/Ranosoft (I always get a quick and constructive response from him, Radoslaw Nowak is really great); Hi-Launcher plans to change the way it handles events in the next release (to callbacks).

Unfortunately my response from TealPoint was less encouraging, basically they said that they hear this sort of complaint from time to time and that such benchmarks are misleading. I plan to take it up with them again because (a) they missed the point I was making and I have had positive experiences with Tealpoint in the past so maybe I just didn't explain myself well enough, (b) I really like TealScript functionality, and (c) I know that it can be done "properly" because Graffiti Anywhere causes far less slowdown and it is clear to see from Igor's program that Graffiti Anywhere uses callback notification for the hede event whereas TealScript uses sub-launch notification.

What is also curious about TealScript is that although they use slow sub-launch notification for the hede event, they do actually use callback notifications for some of the other events they handle.

My final reason for not picking this up more aggressively with Tealpoint is that I am torn, on the one hand I would feel more inclined to complain loudly if I was an actual paying customer, but on the other hand I don't see why I should pay when there is clearly a modification that they could do that would greatly enhance their product so maybe I should vote with my wallet and just stick with Graffiti Anywhere + the Graffiti 1 prcs.

On balance I think I am going to "do the right thing" and buy TealScript and then hope that they will "do the right thing" and improve their hede notification.

It might help if you (ethangarner, and anyone else that cares) also emailed them to complain about TealScript's impact on system performance. Maybe they would take it more seriously if more than one person was complaining.

- Julian

[Tudordoc]

I have just run the speed test.

My result is
Time in tics 5914
Time in secs 59

I am running The Go!Go! If it is slowing things down I think it is worth it.

TudorDoc

[dmitrygr]

here is the fix for picsel veiwer long load times. Download picselAccelerator here. This problem annoyed me too so I fixed it. get from downloads section of my site. http://dmitrygr.com/

[daver]

here is the fix for picsel veiwer long load times. Download picselAccelerator here. This problem annoyed me too so I fixed it. get from downloads section of my site. http://dmitrygr.com/isn't that spamming??... LOL, JUST JOKING.

dmitrygr, thanks for this awesome app. i use Picsel all the time to view PDFs, and your PRC has really sped up loading time.

thanks again!!

[jjesusfreak01]

isn't that spamming??... LOL, JUST JOKING.

dmitrygr, thanks for this awesome app. i use Picsel all the time to view PDFs, and your PRC has really sped up loading time.

thanks again!!
Nice, but I am unable to get onto this site right now. Is anyone else having that problem?

[winexprt]

here is the fix for picsel veiwer long load times. Download picselAccelerator here. This problem annoyed me too so I fixed it. get from downloads section of my site. http://dmitrygr.com/

Your site seems to be down at the moment. :(

[dmitrygr]

will be up as soon as hosters sort out the trouble (usually within the hour)

[DanT]

Nice, but I am unable to get onto this site right now. Is anyone else having that problem?

Yap. Same here.

I have given up with PV but curious about the site.

[jjesusfreak01]

will be up as soon as hosters sort out the trouble (usually within the hour)
Thats bad, Dimitri. You tell us about this great new utility, and then you let your site crash like that, horrible. You better get this fixed, or I am going to have to go to other companies for my freeware business.

[dmitrygr]

slowdown is because if "hede" notification. I patch SysAppLaunch to catch when Picsel is launched. if it is then I set a feature. I also patch SysNotifyBroadcast. in there i check that feature and type of notification. and If it's a "hede" being sent out from picsel, i just dont send it. No harm done, but FAST!

All this is in an 100% ARM-native system extension and just 1KB

[winexprt]

Thank You Mr. Grinberg! You have some very nifty software on your site. :)

[fasuto]

Programs that most slowdown my system were:
TealLock: 83 secs
McFilling: 28 secs

There is also a grea great slow down whith zlauncher quicklaunch anywhere, but _only_ if enhanced recognition is checked

[alsa]

Is this just for Picsel Viewer? Can you make it work with anything else that is slowed down by some other programs? :)

[dmitrygr]

what program s are we talkign about?

[wergeghsdfg]

All this is in an 100% ARM-native system extension and just 1KB
dmitrygr, do you care about the pool of only 1024 clientIDs (also known as native refNum or SHL$$Index) being exhausted?

IMHO, this kind of app should be implemented as an ARM hack for igor_n's YAHM.

[jjesusfreak01]

dmitrygr, do you care about the pool of only 1024 clientIDs (also known as native refNum or SHL$$Index) being exhausted?

IMHO, this kind of app should be implemented as an ARM hack for igor_n's YAHM.
Youre probably right, maybe a later version can do this, since this was just a quick release to fix the problem. Also, not everyone uses YAHM.

[dmitrygr]

NO i dont care. YAHM is very inefficient! FtrGet on ever patch call is very annoying. In fact 1024 is only for sony it seems. For palm it seems to be 4096

[dsfgsdfg]

In fact 1024 is only for sony it seems. For palm it seems to be 4096

Wrong. Limit is the same on every PalmOS 5 machine because it is an ARM architecture limitation.
SHL$$Index is an 12-bit immediate offset used in ARM load instructions. Since it is the offset in the table of pointers, it must have its two lower bits zeroed. Thus giving just 1024 limit.

The confusion may arise because in some contexts SHL$$Index may be used as an index (i.e. offset >> 2), not offset.

Yes, there are cases when it is really necessary to use full blown native application framework, but this app clearly could be implemented by other means. If you do not like YAHM, use a preference panel approach just like in CliePet's MCA.

[dmitrygr]

Besides me only Decuma AB, and the makers of MsMount OS5 make these apps. PalmOne and PalmSource left a lot of IDs free, so I see no reason why I cannot take advantage of this instead of creating more pains for myself.

[dmitrygr]

on Zire 72 ID 0x9F0 works as does it on Zodiac and iQue, but it crashes on Clies.

anythign below 0x3FF works on all devices provided it is not allready used.

[krhainos]

Is there a way to find out what applications are in "stay running"/TSR mode? Like, a Task Manager type thing?

I'm currently going through the pruning process myself. I have a lot of stuff to sift through :(.

Also, I think it's time for a complete clean hard reset. Since I basically HotSync'd my TH55, and everything from my TJ37 got sync'd over.

EDIT : the list i posted earlier proved worthless.

[dmitrygr]

there is no TSR apps. they just subscribe to certain notifications. the one that slows you down is 'hede'. if you want, use a hex editor to look for 'hede' in apps.

ARM apps have it in reverse: 'edeh' but ARM apps are faster so they cause no slowdown compared to 68k.

[Cyker]

Well in a way they are similar to TSRs - Most TSRs hook into an interrupt call to execute their code which, from a high abstracted point of view, is what hacks generally do...

There isn't really an easy way of getting a proper list because lots of apps hook into notifications. The closest thing I've seen to something like that is the Notify list in the PalmInternals program (Try http://www.freewarepalm.com/clock/palminternals.shtml); That'll give you a list of EVERYTHING hooked into a notification, but isn't massively helpful because 90% of them are system hooks. You need to know your apps fairly well to know which ones are ones you can disable yourself ;)

On a slight tangent, there was a list somewhere of what most of these notifications actually were... does anyone remember where it is? I can't remember what 'hede' is actually for now...