Furious Clie Owner

[LiteBuLB]

Why am i pissed? Of coz i am f***ing pissed. After all my investment made on clie, KB, MS, Wlan card, and all i get is this? A discontinuation? WTF? Abandonin Clie lines would mean that my accessories would be rendered useless once my NX decides to die. What am I goin to do with all the stuff by then? I though i could be able to upgrade to a Cobalt and retain my accessories, but guess my hopes are gone. All the time wasted in waiting, n bla bla bla bla bla, and now, looks like I will have to wait for Palm models. With Clies now stopped, i guess i wont be expecting any boombastic models from Palm, coz from my opinion, the Tungsten lines are out to keep Palm in market and to challenge the Clies. Now that Clies are dying, no competition will cause Palm to be less aggressive. Sux!

SONY, what a pathetic way of dealing. :mad:

[anitanium]

i concur
either relish your collection, or rid of it

[ClieKun]

Maybe its time to write sony and ***** them out!

[sdsdsd]

LiteBuLB, chill out! :-) The NX-80 was introduced almost ten months ago, which is a long time in computerland -- especially for Sony's Clie line. Who told you that all the accessories you bought for your NX-80 would be usable on any other Clie? Did anyone say your NX-80 could be updated to Cobalt?

Maybe you should just buy another NX-80 (they should be cheaper now that Sony is dropping the Clie) and pack it away somewhere for when your current NX-80 dies. Oh, wait. By then computers may not have USB or Compact Flash. Or Palm Desktop 4 won't run on Windows 2007. Maybe it's just time to go back to paper.

If you're getting value out of your Clie, then use it as long as you can and then see what you want to do later. You're not the first person who felt hurt after a vendor dumped a product line. Talk to the people who "invested" in quadrophonic sound in the 70s, or LaserDiscs in the 80s, or Apple Newtons, or Oldsmobiles.

[ClieKun]

Problem is many are feeling the same way :( Maybe he is reacting alittle too much but hell :( he feels bad.

[LiteBuLB]

*sigh*
sad sad sad,,, i am on a NX70 device,
*speechless*
feels great now, just cant take the sudden news. sux.

[LiteBuLB]

LiteBuLB, chill out! :-) The NX-80 was introduced almost ten months ago, which is a long time in computerland. Did anyone say your NX-80 could be updated to Cobalt?


Well, upgrading in the sense of, upgrading to a new unit which handles OS6, and retaining my accessories hopefully it could be used for that new unit. :o

[motionmind]

I had thought about buying a CLIE a while back but just couldn't justify it since I didn't have any other device that used the MS like I do with CF or SD. I guess I lucked out in the long run. Not sure what all the melodrama is about anyway, Sony never had the holy grail of Palms. Granted, they were nice and had their high points, but so does every other device. Sony never said they wouldn't sell CLIE's in the US ever again; just for now. I can understand some people being upset, but ranting about it just makes you look 13 and mindlessly addicted to a brand name. I'm sorry they're gone just for the principle of it; once upon a time they were the Palm platform's main innovator, but they've gotten slack the last year and they've discovered that there aren't as many Sony-brand whores here as there are in Japan :-). Am I worried that PalmOne will get complacent? Not really, because now they're having to compete with the PocketPC world as well as other Palm licensees, so they can't sit on their duffs if they want to stay in business.

I guess the moral of the story is this: I don't care whose name is on the device, as long as I'm happy with it.

[ClieKun]

[QUOTE=motionmind] they've discovered that there aren't as many Sony-brand whores here as there are in Japan :-). QUOTE]

Well In japan Sony is not the leading seller of devices. People smarten up and don`t buy Sony devices are they get burned many times. I am one of those people that have been burned by issues of repair. I Do alot of product searching before I buy any device these days...........

10,000 Posts for me on this one.........

[hherbzilla]

I guess the moral of the story is this: I don't care whose name is on the device, as long as I'm happy with it.That's essentially my philosophy. Fortunately, I don't have a huge investment in memory sticks, etc. I've gotten more than my money's worth out of my NX70V, so no regrets when it's time to upgrade.

Nothing out there today interests me, so I'll hold on to my Clie as long as I can.

[LiteBuLB]

That's essentially my philosophy. Fortunately, I don't have a huge investment in memory sticks, etc. I've gotten more than my money's worth out of my NX70V, so no regrets when it's time to upgrade.

Nothing out there today interests me, so I'll hold on to my Clie as long as I can.

sigh, guess its me who is stupit enough to bum all i have into stuffs like ms, kb, wifi cards and such.

[jmg_NX21]

I can't say I was upset... disappointed and saddened. NO cool clie to look forward too with OS6 yet expecting that it WOULD not be the perfect clie (missing bt, or non standard API's)... I am not a BRAND fanatic, but I am an OS fanatic...

I am still a year/months from even considering a replacement... after all, ALL THOSE peripherals I bought for MY NX are still in good shape and providing plenty of use =)

[kp*]

When you buy a Clie there is a list of contents on the side of the box. For example, the one for the NX80 says:
Clie Handheld
USB Cradle (for Hotsync operation)
Retractable Stylus
AC adapter, AC cord
Remote controller, Stereo headphones
Plug adapter
Hand strap
Installation CD-ROM
Instruction manuals
Limited warranty statement

For the contents of this box I paid $600, plus about $50 tax.
What I knew did not come with this box:
Upgrade to OS6
Free MS Pro or guaranteed usage of current MS's I owned in all future Clies
Connector compatibility with future Clies
That there would ever be a future Clie
Software updates to fix anything but the most serious bugs
Compatibility with any/all 3rd-party software
Advance notice of Sony's confidential business decisions

Of course we're all Clie lovers and have all shovelled unhealthy amounts of money into Clies, MS's, keyboards and other accessories, and it really sucks that we won't be able to use them with other Clies. But I wish people would remember that Sony does not owe you anything except what you bought when you gave them your money. How much love you have for the Clie will not be repaid to you in dollars, yen or free merchandise. Sony is in the business of selling electronics -- they don't love you back, and they don't care what happens to you after they have your money (any Clie-lover should have noticed that years ago). I have no love for Sony, but people's misdirected anger at what they're "owed" really gets to me.

[macattack]

I wish people would remember that Sony does not owe you anything except what you bought when you gave them your money. How much love you have for the Clie will not be repaid to you in dollars, yen or free merchandise. Sony is in the business of selling electronics -- they don't love you back, and they don't care what happens to you after they have your money (any Clie-lover should have noticed that years ago). I have no love for Sony, but people's misdirected anger at what they're "owed" really gets to me.

I completely agree. Sony doesn't owe me anything but the contents of the box which I have purchased. However, the way in which a company handles their customers (and by extension, handles things like exiting a product segment) affects how people will deal with a company in the future. Sony made really cool PDAs, but they did not understand the power of goodwill among its customers when they were IN the PDA business. From what I have read, their customer support was/is awful. Why should anyone expect that Sony would decide to start generating customer goodwill when they're LEAVING the PDA market?

Sony owes us nothing; this is true. But neither do we owe Sony anything! This is what Sony seems to misunderstand. The company that will be successful in any given market is the one that finds the sweet spot that keeps costs as low as possible, while doing everything left in its arsenal to build consumer confidence and goodwill. It is these companies that have customers not only coming back over and over to buy products in the same market segment, but also buy from the other markets the company services.

Sony is a BIG company they can afford to loose a few customers here and there by saving a few dollars (yen, whatever) on building goodwill in the marketplace. But I have seen ClieSource posts from Brighthand's founder that said that he knew that Sony paid attention to the ClieSource forums. I hope they are still paying attention, because there is very little goodwill remaining on the forums here. Not only do I see people selling their still perfectly functional CLIEs and jumping on someone else's bandwagon, but they are also talking about selling (or never considering) Sony digital cameras, PSPs, and other Sony consumer electronics. In my opinion, Sony better wake up or they will be pulling more than just handhelds from the U.S. marketplace!

[ClieKun]

Everyone was looking forward to the new Clies now nothing but a over prices u50 which is not even a clie!

[edeab220]

Why am i pissed? Of coz i am f***ing pissed. After all my investment made on clie, KB, MS, Wlan card, and all i get is this? A discontinuation? WTF? Abandonin Clie lines would mean that my accessories would be rendered useless once my NX decides to die. What am I goin to do with all the stuff by then? I though i could be able to upgrade to a Cobalt and retain my accessories, but guess my hopes are gone. All the time wasted in waiting, n bla bla bla bla bla, and now, looks like I will have to wait for Palm models. With Clies now stopped, i guess i wont be expecting any boombastic models from Palm, coz from my opinion, the Tungsten lines are out to keep Palm in market and to challenge the Clies. Now that Clies are dying, no competition will cause Palm to be less aggressive. Sux!

SONY, what a pathetic way of dealing. :mad: Um...whoa. Ya gotta calm down man ;). I remember in 2001 when HS killed the Visors. How do you think we felt?

I was gonna post a long thing, but macattack did it for me :p.

[ClieKun]

Um...whoa. Ya gotta calm down man ;). I remember in 2001 when HS killed the Visors. How do you think we felt?

I was gonna post a long thing, but macattack did it for me :p.Not many cared when Visors pulledout. By the time thi happened people jumped over to Sony.

[kp*]

Not many cared when Visors pulledout. By the time thi happened people jumped over to Sony.
I remember a lot of people saying "What am I going to do with all the hundreds of dollars in Springboard attachments I bought?" in the same way that people lament over their MS investments now. In hindsight, the Visor was getting outdated and bulky, but there was definitely some complaining back then too, for very much the same reasons. I think people saw it coming a little bit more though, because Handspring had clearly stopped innovating with the Visors months before, and was refocusing on the Treo line.

[jmg_NX21]

Perhaps I should not buy a Pa1mone pda... I've had a Palm Pilot, they don't exist; bought a Visor, they don't exist, have bought a clie and now they won't be available in the USA... I hope it ain't me ;)

Perhpas a PPC should be in my future... any suggestions (on who to get out of the PDA business)?

lol

[MMMMMike]

If you're worried about your accessories being useless after your NX80 dies, you shouldn't worry.
In fact, by the time it dies and you are completely finished it with the accessories should be selling like gold on eBay. Just remember that production will stop and these accessories will be in limited supply.
Perfect sellers market.

Mike

[PBM808]

i'm hoarding audio remotes as we speak ;)

[Otakud]

PBM808, you in Honolulu, huh? I'm not so far...

I don't really understand why people are buying 2nd "backup" clies and the like. I mean, unless you really want to keep you Clie around for another 2 years, why even bother. By that time, we'll have the next, next Palm OS, processors will be twice as fast, there will be more RAM, better screens, and the list goes on. Unless you're a collector, I wouldn't even consider getting another NX. I like my NX80 and all, but when this thing goes, it goes. Time to find a newer model - which is where, I suppose, the problem arises. No new clies. Fortunately for me, I'll be in Japan for the next year, so if any Clies come out then, I'll be sure to check them out when they hit the street.

I'm sure you all could import Clies also. A language hack may come along sooner or later.

[ClieKun]

Long time no see :)

[ClieKun]

I remember a lot of people saying "What am I going to do with all the hundreds of dollars in Springboard attachments I bought?" in the same way that people lament over their MS investments now. In hindsight, the Visor was getting outdated and bulky, but there was definitely some complaining back then too, for very much the same reasons. I think people saw it coming a little bit more though, because Handspring had clearly stopped innovating with the Visors months before, and was refocusing on the Treo line.I know what your saying...............The Visor was not just bulky but outdated badly. Well Sony might have felt they were in the same position so the jumped ship.:(

[LiteBuLB]

but it is unusual for a big company to dump its product line just like dat!! ok, mebe, not entirely coz it is still available on the japanese market.

bcoz the line is not dumped entirely, will they get back to the world market? Any possibilities? I thought Clies are hot stuff. Arent they the most best selling PDAs?? :confused:

[sigelang]

macattack

"Sony better wake up or they will be pulling more than just handhelds from the U.S. marketplace!"

Or will be Betamax-ed out!!!! Long live open source.

[madmaxmedia]

You'll always be able to find CLIE's on EBay. In a year or 2 the UX50 will be like $150.

[strider_mt2k]

but it is unusual for a big company to dump its product line just like dat!! ok, mebe, not entirely coz it is still available on the japanese market.

bcoz the line is not dumped entirely, will they get back to the world market? Any possibilities? I thought Clies are hot stuff. Arent they the most best selling PDAs?? :confused:


:eek: Perhaps some herbal tea?

Sony is a big company, and unfortunately they do what they want, and they want to make money.

If they were the best selling PDAs then I'd really have to question what they are doing, but they claim that they aren't selling like they used to and that's why.

[tpipher]

ya because Palmone woke up and smelled the coffee! Sony just "took it's toys and went home". Sounds to me like sony is a little child, if it can't have it's way then forget it! Yes I wish they would not have left (I have used a Palmone Tungsten since intro) So instead of fighting back they quit!

[TheRealZero]

Welcome to the fast paced world of technology.
They are just reassesing the market...they'll be back...
(IMHO)

[patrickl]

How can they ever come back after a stunt like this? Noone will trust them to stay in for the long term if they do come back. They built the best PDA's and still people didin't buy them in large enough numbers. Most buyers rather sticked to steady old Palm. That sentiment sure will have gotten a lot worse if they ever try to come back.

So, I doubt they plan on ever coming back.

[stronggeek]

I can't say I was upset... disappointed and saddened. NO cool clie to look forward too with OS6 yet expecting that it WOULD not be the perfect clie (missing bt, or non standard API's)... I am not a BRAND fanatic, but I am an OS fanatic...

I am still a year/months from even considering a replacement... after all, ALL THOSE peripherals I bought for MY NX are still in good shape and providing plenty of use =)

I'm not a "brand whoar" either, but Sony made the best PDA for me and although I'm sad to see them leave I'm not bitter.

Honestly my heart sunk that day. :(

Now, I realize I didn't purchase a guarantee stating Sony would continue to keep manufacture PDAs for as long as I needed to, but that I simply purchased a PDA and that's all.

Just like when I left Palm after a couple of years with my Palm 5VX to jump on board the Sony train with a 710, I believe I'll be able to return back to Palm (and please God, let there be more players by then!) if need be.

And as I've done before and has been mentioned, I'll sell off the old stuff.

We're not stuck!

I also bought a backup and here's why.

I simply don't care for much that's out now(other than the NX80 which I already had and the TH55 which I have now) and I may not care for what's coming out next.

So rather than taking the risk of dropping my NX80, having it stolen or it just breaking on it's own and not being able to get a something I like for quick replacement I checked the reviews and specs and bought an TH.

I've owned an NX80 for a year and wanted something new and my memory sticks, cradles(yes I said cradles) and adaptors are compatible so I'm good for a while if the worst doesn't happen.

I never thougt I'd need a backup, but when you use it for work like I do and you use to a certain way doing things and you don't care for anything else that's out right now the "peace of mind of knowing I'm prepared for the worst is worth it!

Oh, and Apple stop making the newton mine still worked and as far as memory sticks, there are so many other things out that use a memory stick that I don't even consider the MS deal an issue.

My HP Notebook has a 4 in one slot(MS, SD,and so on) and though MS compatibility was a consideration it was not a deal maker as most notebooks have PCMCIA cards anyway and there are MS adaptors available (though I'm not sure for the MS Pro)

But when I'm ready I'll sell it all if it suits me and a buy kmart bluelite if it's right for me.

Later
PS. By the way the TH55 really is sweet

[cat_taylor]

Do you think there will end up being a grey market on non-US Clies?

[fssia]

It seems that us Clie owners still can't get over Sony's decision to pull out of US, EU & the whole world (except in Japan) for this year and may be forever. Sigh...I hope they are really keep an eye on the Clie forums.

Or they are just waiting for these kind of reactions??? So that when they make a comeback, we will buy any Clies they launch?!! ;) :p

[Ptah]

The HP iPAQ hx4700 is starting to look better and better, isn't it? Hehehe. :D

[ppc]

Do you think there will end up being a grey market on non-US Clies?
Why not? A lot of us have "Japan only" Sharp Zaurus devices, I'm sure that some enterprising people will find a way to get any future Clies over here as well.

Companies like Dynamism already sell Sony products that are not officially for the US. They could add new Clies to their line easily.

[Cyker]

I really REALLY wish Palm would make a new range of PDAs along side their Tungstens. Call them... oh I dunno Clies. And make them all svelt and multimediary. I'm sure some Sony designers will be needing jobs so what better way to go? :)

Heey, yeah... if Palm bought out Sony's Clie department, with the designers too, and added a bit of their own Palm-brand common-sense (Something often lacking with some Clie designs :D) then they would TAKE OVER THE WORLD!! <cue Pinky and The Brain theme tune>

And I still think OS6 will suck as much as OS5 does!!!! :p

[patrickl]

He, he, Cyker. Now that would be cool yes ;)

[starbuckk]

REALITY CHECK: The PDA market is shrinking. Palm bought out Handspring. Sony is gone from the US. I'm not sure what is happening in the PPC world. Point is, Sony is simply responding to business climate. They may have made the best PDA's, but in the end, the "flagship brand" will win. Thats why Palm will continue to rule the PalmOS world (as long as there is a PalmOS world to rule).

Your PDA is probably going to be good for about two years. Then tech envy will probably send you looking for something new, no matter what. Right now I wouldn't trade my NX80 (which I bought AFTER the announcement btw) for any current PDA. But in a year when my Verizon contract runs out I am hoping there will be a smart phone with a screen comparable to the NX80 and all the features of my cell phone, so I can replace both units at once. But it ain't there yet.

So relax and enjoy your NX's and TH's and UX's. They still do everything you wanted them to when you bought it and will probably continue to do so for a long time to come.

[iboar]

What I think needs to happen to salvage the PDA industry is a TRULY universal connector for power and accessories. PalmOne has a so-called UC that for some reason isn't fully universal. Sony did better as their connector worked with more units. But let's face it, people are tired of upgrading to a better PDA and then learning that their accessories won't work with it.

If Palms and PocketPCs came with a USB 2.0 compatible connector, then more third-party manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon and develop accessories. Companies are very hesitant to develop for small markets, but with a USB connector that market would be greatly increased.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony can take its proprietary parts and accessories and shove them up Godzilla's backside! I think the insistence that we buy special memory cards and use specially formatted music files etc., rather than following industry standards, is what eventually killled the Clie and could kill the whole PDA market.

[starbuckk]

If Palms and PocketPCs came with a USB 2.0 compatible connector, then more third-party manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon and develop accessories. Companies are very hesitant to develop for small markets, but with a USB connector that market would be greatly increased.


Absolutely!!! I now have two keybaords and a Belkin cable that are no longer of use to me for this very reason (they will be on Ebay shortly-N series devices). Unfortunately it ain't likely. Even PocketPC's don't have that. And the base's aren't interchangeable even within product lines. Sony has three different connector types I believe. Palm is just as guilty of that as Sony was.

A USB connecter would be the perfect way to go. But manufacturers don't WANT things to be interchangable. An example is the old Ericcson phone I had (Isn't Ericcson a division of Sony?): They went OUT OF THEIR WAY to make sure that the charger could not accept any after market power plug. So if the cord broke on the "wall wart" they provided, you couldn't just run down to Radio Shack and get a generic one. You had to buy a WHOLE NEW CHARGER. This was not an accident.

I am sure that Sony, and Palm, and HP and Sharp and whomever else are making PPC's and Palms are thinking the same way. They probably wouldn't mind a "standard" as long as it is THEIRS.

[cat_taylor]

Your PDA is probably going to be good for about two years. Then tech envy will probably send you looking for something new, no matter what. Right now I wouldn't trade my NX80 (which I bought AFTER the announcement btw) for any current PDA.

I'm happy to stay with mine for a number of years, but here's one question. How long will the internal battery last before it stops taking/holding a charge and should we be looking at setting aside an extra one now?

Cat

[fssia]

I'm happy to stay with mine for a number of years, but here's one question. How long will the internal battery last before it stops taking/holding a charge and should we be looking at setting aside an extra one now?

CatI agree. I don't mind to keep using my SJ33 or upgrade to TH55/ TJ37 but how long will their batteries last? And will we be able to get replacement batteries then? Is it sensible or good common sense to stock up the spare batteries now?!
:confused:

[sdsdsd]

I am sure that Sony, and Palm, and HP and Sharp and whomever else are making PPC's and Palms are thinking the same way. They probably wouldn't mind a "standard" as long as it is THEIRS.

Ding! We have a winner! Sony loves proprietary formats/equipment and locking in customers. Thing is, you would think they would have learned their lesson by now: Beta, Memory Stick, MagicGate Memory Sticks, MiniDisc, SACD (not dead but not burning up the charts, either), ATRAC, ...

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with coming up with something new or using it exclusively for a while to build sales and a reputation as a market leader. But Sony seems to go after proprietary formats just for the sake of it, and doesn't seem to realize (again and again) that it is in their interests to open up those formats. I'm not even sure they can say it's been worth it financially to introduce so many products that can be used only their way in their products.

[patrickl]

Sony had plenty of standards that did catch on: CD (with Philips), DDS (for backup tapes at least), 3.5" floppy disks, Video 8, Hi 8, DVD (with Philips, Matsushita and Toshiba), DVD+R(W) (with Philips), I'd say Memory Stick is doning fine. So really Sony has had a hand in about every multimedia standard that is currently in use. I guess you win some and you lose some.

The reason they set new standards is because they always want to go beyond what others have done. Why did Sony use a proprietary version of Palm OS? Yes, because what Sony did with OS4 was only recently possible with the standard version of PalmOS (with OS5.2) When there is standard they do tend to adopt the standard. Just like they adopted OS 5.2 (US50 and TH55 etc). The same way they switched over when their (better) alternative of Betamax was overtaken by VHS.

There still is no proper format that has built in copy protection. MP3 is a pirates heaven, but for a company selling audio files it's not a bit of a dangerous alternative. I guess that's why Sony still sticks to ATRAC for their portable audioplayer.

When Sony invents new multimedia idea's they are forced to come up with new standards. Most of the time they get adopted, but sometimes not. The fact that they innovate attracted most buyers to the Clie platform anyway. PDA's are a dead market though, so it's probably no use to still stay in that business especially since they would need to work extremely hard to get people away from Palm.

[SamuraiCatJB]

There still is no proper format that has built in copy protection. MP3 is a pirates heaven, but for a company selling audio files it's not a bit of a dangerous alternative. I guess that's why Sony still sticks to ATRAC for their portable audioplayer.


Sony is also a distributer of music/video end products, so they have a vested interest in only providing secure formats, and attempting to promote them to market acceptance. :)

[Flash-57]

Sony is also a distributer of music/video end products, so they have a vested interest in only providing secure formats, and attempting to promote them to market acceptance.

Yes, but the way they've chosen to combat the problem is like trying to keep the tide from coming in by using a snow shovel and chicken wire.

It seems to me that the format is completely voluntary, there are many easy ways to defeat it, and is definitely the minority format.

Sony seems quick to abandon the Clie market when things didn't look so good, so why are they hanging on so tightly to ATRAC?

[SamuraiCatJB]

I never said they were smart.... :) :D they did abandon the Clie. ;) ;)

[Tristandouille]

...thinking of it, anyone using MagicGate MS out there ?
(I've never really understood why Sony did something that stupid...)

[*YellowRose*]

After all my investment made on clie, KB, MS, Wlan card, and all i get is this? A discontinuation? WTF? :mad:I understand how you feel, having purchased a few accessories myself, but I doubt you'll have any problem 'unloading' your accessories once you don't need them any longer . . . simply because there will still be *somebody* out there that will continue to use their Sony Clies . . . and will continue to need accessories . . . an example? Psions . . .

[DennisOS2]

When you buy a Clie there is a list of contents on the side of the box. For example, the one for the NX80 says:
Clie Handheld
USB Cradle (for Hotsync operation)
Retractable Stylus
AC adapter, AC cord
Remote controller, Stereo headphones
Plug adapter
Hand strap
Installation CD-ROM
Instruction manuals
Limited warranty statement

For the contents of this box I paid $600, plus about $50 tax.
What I knew did not come with this box:
Upgrade to OS6
Free MS Pro or guaranteed usage of current MS's I owned in all future Clies
Connector compatibility with future Clies
That there would ever be a future Clie
Software updates to fix anything but the most serious bugs
Compatibility with any/all 3rd-party software
Advance notice of Sony's confidential business decisions

Of course we're all Clie lovers and have all shovelled unhealthy amounts of money into Clies, MS's, keyboards and other accessories, and it really sucks that we won't be able to use them with other Clies. But I wish people would remember that Sony does not owe you anything except what you bought when you gave them your money. How much love you have for the Clie will not be repaid to you in dollars, yen or free merchandise. Sony is in the business of selling electronics -- they don't love you back, and they don't care what happens to you after they have your money (any Clie-lover should have noticed that years ago). I have no love for Sony, but people's misdirected anger at what they're "owed" really gets to me.


Great post ............. right on. To everyone ticked at the Sony position: don't buy Sony again ........ for anything. Vote with your wallet.

[sdsdsd]

Sony had plenty of standards that did catch on: CD (with Philips), DDS (for backup tapes at least), 3.5" floppy disks, Video 8, Hi 8, DVD (with Philips, Matsushita and Toshiba), DVD+R(W) (with Philips), I'd say Memory Stick is doning fine. So really Sony has had a hand in about every multimedia standard that is currently in use. I guess you win some and you lose some.

The reason they set new standards is because they always want to go beyond what others have done. Why did Sony use a proprietary version of Palm OS? Yes, because what Sony did with OS4 was only recently possible with the standard version of PalmOS (with OS5.2) When there is standard they do tend to adopt the standard. Just like they adopted OS 5.2 (US50 and TH55 etc). The same way they switched over when their (better) alternative of Betamax was overtaken by VHS.

You raise some good points. I would add the PlayStation to that list, too. But I would argue that the standards Sony has managed to promote successfully on its own are relatively few, given the number they've actually created. And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I am not saying it's bad for Sony to innovate (and create new formats/standards in the process).

But Sony frequently (almost always?) makes two mistakes in promoting standards when they go it alone. One is that they re-invent the wheel. I can understand that they want a music format that protects their ownership. But two WAY more popular ones already exist in Apple's AAC and Microsoft's Windows Media formats. Why does Sony have to create yet another format which works only with Sony gear and/or Sony music?

And that's another mistake: not encouraging the growth of their own standards. Beta failed partly because Sony was reluctant to license it. Memory Stick has not remained technically- or price-competitive with CF or even SD in capacity or speed, and, frankly, would be a loser in the market were Sony not #1 or #2 in digital cameras. SA-CD is a stiff in the marketplace even though what I have read so far indicates it sounds better than DVD-A. Sony is failing to do what they need to do to make that format work.

An old saying is that you cannot cross a chasm in two leaps. IMHO, Sony should follow that advice.

[patrickl]

I can understand that they want a music format that protects their ownership. But two WAY more popular ones already exist in Apple's AAC and Microsoft's Windows Media formats. Why does Sony have to create yet another format which works only with Sony gear and/or Sony music?I can't remember exactly that far back, but I thought ATRAC was introduced way before those other formats were. Didn't Microsoft and only very recently introduce their new save audio file standards?

that's another mistake: not encouraging the growth of their own standards.True, they seem intent on making money off their standards. Yet that never seems to work. Not for the standards they set on their own anyway.

Sometimes it's good that they stick with their standards though. It has it's advantages if you are an early adopter. It would be pretty annoying if they stopped using memory sticks now.

Anyway, I'm still in shock that I will never be able to buy the UX50 successor that I was waiting for. Who on earth is gonna build funny machines like that now? The new VGA iPAQs look nice, but I want a friggin clamshell+keyboard PDA :rolleyes:

[DennisOS2]

It has it's advantages if you are an early adopter. It would be pretty annoying if they stopped using memory sticks now.

Early adopter refers to someone accepting a new concept before others (generally). MS's are not new. Does not apply here.

[patrickl]

Early adopter refers to someone accepting a new concept before others (generally). MS's are not new. Does not apply here.Well there were 2 points in that statment:
1 Sony doesn't walk away from a new standard within the lifetime of the original items they introduced with it
2 Memory Sticks (and all the other standards that were outdone by others) were once "new" too.

But it's true, the longer they keep up a standard before retracting it, the bigger the damage done.

[sdsdsd]

Well there were 2 points in that statment:
1 Sony doesn't walk away from a new standard within the lifetime of the original items they introduced with it.

Yes, but if Sony is the creator of the standard, then "lifetime" is only as long as they make products which use it. Try buying a new Beta VCR nowadays.

And you use a very narrow definition of the term "early adopter." I believe "early adopter" relates to technology platforms as a whole. People who bought cars in the 1910s and 1920s and people who bought Palms in 1996 were "early adopters." Early adopters are also the ones who pay big money to place bets on which platforms will survive the marketplace. Sometimes they lose (quadrophonic sound, anyone? PRO-DOS? Oldsmobile?).

[patrickl]

Yes, but if Sony is the creator of the standard, then "lifetime" is only as long as they make products which use it. Try buying a new Beta VCR nowadays.That's why I mentioned "early adopter" and "lifetime of the original items". Are we going in circles here?

And you use a very narrow definition of the term "early adopter." I believe "early adopter" relates to technology platforms as a whole. People who bought cars in the 1910s and 1920s and people who bought Palms in 1996 were "early adopters." Early adopters are also the ones who pay big money to place bets on which platforms will survive the marketplace. Sometimes they lose (quadrophonic sound, anyone? PRO-DOS? Oldsmobile?).I didn't say anything to narrow the definition down. Are you responding to DennisOS2 with that remark? In fact in the sense I take it I meant Clie buyers as early adopters since that was the first Sony PDA.

I don't see why these semantics issues are so important to follow up on. First DennisOS2 complains I see the term to broadly and then you complain I narrow it down too much :eek:

People can't put every detail in a message of a few sentences. If you read something (a general statement) and you fill in the blanks, try to imagine the poster meant the same thing as you and it will make a lot more sense.

[DennisOS2]

Yes, but if Sony is the creator of the standard, then "lifetime" is only as long as they make products which use it. Try buying a new Beta VCR nowadays.

And you use a very narrow definition of the term "early adopter." I believe "early adopter" relates to technology platforms as a whole. People who bought cars in the 1910s and 1920s and people who bought Palms in 1996 were "early adopters." Early adopters are also the ones who pay big money to place bets on which platforms will survive the marketplace. Sometimes they lose (quadrophonic sound, anyone? PRO-DOS? Oldsmobile?).

In any market, the definition of an early adopter is determined by the classic bell curve of adopters. This cuts through the period in time, product, technology examples. They (early adopters) are a couple of SDs on the front side of the adoption curve for that product or technology.

[DennisOS2]

That's why I mentioned "early adopter" and "lifetime of the original items". Are we going in circles here?

I didn't say anything to narrow the definition down. Are you responding to DennisOS2 with that remark? In fact in the sense I take it I meant Clie buyers as early adopters since that was the first Sony PDA.

I don't see why these semantics issues are so important to follow up on. First DennisOS2 complains I see the term to broadly and then you complain I narrow it down too much :eek:

People can't put every detail in a message of a few sentences. If you read something (a general statement) and you fill in the blanks, try to imagine the poster meant the same thing as you and it will make a lot more sense.

Sorry, as much as I like my 80, Sony is arrogant in thinking their design will be loved by all. I've said this before ........... they failed to attract the market segment that can pay for these things ....... business. That is the cash cow. That could have funded the real play-things like our UX and NX marvels. This is a MUCH bigger market than Japan. If they wanted to succeed they had to change their business model. Early adopters won't cause success. This isn't about early adopters.

[patrickl]

This isn't about early adopters.No it isn't, I'm really baffled why this early adopters thing has become as such an issue. I simply mentioned it in a general statement about dropping media standards.

[ayu61200]

Absolutely agree... What Sony wants, is, basically, make money making electronic devices. As simple as that. They don't care about standards or what's cool as long as they can make money. So, what they do, is to take something, make it new or improve it (e.g. Clié) and try to keep the market flowing for themselves (ATRAC3 instead of MP3). As soon as there's no money to make, they're gone. So that's what happened with Clié in the states. With smartphones comming around and PPC market growing it was quite clear there's no market for the Clié outside Japan.

They will only be back if the situation changes, everybody starts to buy only PalmOS PDAs and everything else shrink. Obviously, quite unlikely.

Anyway it's always up to us to hunt a Clié from Japan if we really like it. I do, and I will in the future. After all I like to buy what I like more than a brand or a trend. I do like Clié...

[sdsdsd]

People can't put every detail in a message of a few sentences. If you read something (a general statement) and you fill in the blanks, try to imagine the poster meant the same thing as you and it will make a lot more sense.

Then write more sentences! :) I may do many things well, but I do not read minds. I don't even try anymore.

I do agree that we are ranging off-topic into semantic circles, though. MHO is that Sony can take their proprietary whatever and sell it to someone else; I'm not buying any more.

[patrickl]

We could have a debate about what "proprietary" means ;)

[fssia]

We could have a debate about what "proprietary" means ;)Lol, then you two would be arguing for the sake of arguing. :D

[patrickl]

You want to start an argument about us two arguing? ;)

[fssia]

You want to start an argument about us two arguing? ;)How do I start? :D