NZ -> Tungsten T (confessions...)

[gatezone]

Since many of you helped me in my decision-making process I thought I'd share my experience and resolution for others who may benefit from it.

I 'lusted' after an NZ90 for weeks and did extensive research before finally picking one up in CompUSA. But I have to confess I returned it for a Tungsten T and am happy I did.

Personal Ergonomics: The NZ is a beautiful system with many great features, but every time I picked up the Tungsten it felt 'right' in my hand. That isn't the only reason but it is significant with a *hand* held system that it 'fit' the user's ergonomic preferences. (In this cycle of PDA upgrading I also tried the Toshiba e704 - which almost hurt my hand inspite of wonderful technical engineering. FYI from what I can see Windows is hell on a PDA in so many ways that I won't even go there. )

Cost: This is different for everyone, but right now I am more comfortable carrying around a $300 system than an $800 system. Call it economic ergonomics ;-). I worry less about breakage, loss, etc.

Moving Parts: While the Tungsten has a moving part, the swivel clam shell design of the NZ is great, but depends on tighter engineering tolerances and from the discussion boards it is clear that these tolerances can vary. Also, for me I try to keep moving parts to a minimum and is one of the reasons I love PDA's - they boot instantaneously and are virtually all solid state with little to accidently break, bend, get loose, etc. The little variances feel bigger after I've paid $900+

Communications: I'm gambling on the SDIO 802.11x cards coming out before too much longer and I like the form factor of the SDIO combo cards more than the Flash option sticking out of the back of the NZ. To tide me over I upgraded my telephone to a Nokia 6310i for anywhere connectivity with Bluetooth, and I picked up the new Belkin BT network access point for $125 at PCConnection. The access point is so much easier than setting up internet sharing with a 'dongle' which can cost half the amount of the access point. The access point is small, light wieght and picks up the necessary ip info from any dhcp server on the network. It would be more convenient to have the SDIO card but I needed to learn about BT anyway!

Support: from all my experience with Sony I feel that communication with Palm is just a little more forthcoming. The proliferation of consumer items from Sony is both admirable and frightening when last year's model is virtually obsolete (an overstatement).

So far my phones and pda's barely make it a year before there is something new which will help me be more productive - a $300 Tungsten fits that cycle for me better than a $800 NZ.

The bottom line is a satisfied customer and even with out the 802.11 wireless I'm very happy with my TT, 256Mb sdio card, and the way it is so light on my hip!

Since this is a Clie forum I want to make it clear that my research and first-hand experience with the Clie showed it to be a fantastic system, and the thing that surprised me the most, as a profesional techie, is that a stripped down Porsche suited me better than the fully loaded Mercedes. Some of you wondering if you can live without the extra's might be very pleasantly surprised at the simplicity, speed, and convenience of the TT.

[gatezone]

Wonder why it says I'm not registered...oh well.

[mowog]

Thanks for this....Iwill not be going the NZ route

[big_raji]

I agree with you on most points about the NZ and Tungsten.

I'm playing with a Tungsten now, but I'm probably returning it to the store. I tried to move from my NR70v, but found that I really missed the keyboard.

The lack of virtual graffiti on the Tungsten didn't bother me, and bluetooth went well with my PC Dongle and T39 phone. I just think it's too small for me, and I hate having to slide down the graffiti area every time I need it.

I'm impatiently waiting for the TG50 to come out. I see it as a Tungsten with a Keyboard.

[gatezone]

Good points. I struggled with virtual graf. and the lack of a keyboard, and I want them, but it hasn't really been an issue.

TG50 sounds interesing, at the moment I can't remember if it has OS5 and bluetooth. I'd trade the keyboard and VG for bluetooth and OS5, I love the speed, but ideally have everything in a small package.

GZ

[big_raji]

Originally posted by gatezone
Good points. I struggled with virtual graf. and the lack of a keyboard, and I want them, but it hasn't really been an issue.

TG50 sounds interesing, at the moment I can't remember if it has OS5 and bluetooth. I'd trade the keyboard and VG for bluetooth and OS5, I love the speed, but ideally have everything in a small package.

GZ

Yup, it's OS5 and Bluetooth.

I don't think it's officially been said that it has OS5, but it does have a voice recorder, and nobody except Handera has released a Palm with voice recorder on an non-OS5 unit.

[davy19]

you forgot to review the main reason:

The 2 MP camera with flash

Integration...


you really cannot compare tungsten T to the NZ90, they are two different class of palms for different people.

[dgiovanni]

sup G ? I was wundering about the ummm bluetooth connectivity situation. If you could splain a few tings to me, so I could better understood the shizit and so forth. Anywayz, If and when I get the NZ90 and I git dat bluetooth box, Belkin BT network deal; homey, can I use that box with a regular fone line or am I oblidged/obligated to use a friggin cell phone and what not (due to the hardware configuration) ? Thanks for your cooperation, goodnight.

dgiovanni :D

[gatezone]

Davey19 said: "you forgot to review the main reason:
The 2 MP camera with flash , Integration... you really cannot compare tungsten T to the NZ90, they are two different class of palms for different people."

Yes, that is my point. There are people, like myself, who struggle with which PDA to get and sometimes miss the forrest for the trees. Aside from the core question: What do you *really* want to do with it, I forgot how *personal* my PDA is and if it doesn't fit me it doesn't matter how much is integrated into the device. It is a combination of literal sensory feel and the way your favorite functions/applications flow on the system.

I had completely talked myself into the NZ based on features, integration price/performance, and on and on. I still think it's great, but in some fundamental way I just couldn't "pair" with it... I've been playing with BT too much lately ;-)

PS: I picked up Clie SJ33(?) at a store the other day and it feels great. Hope the T50 has some of the same 'felt-sense' to it.

[gatezone]

Originally posted by dgiovanni
... I git dat bluetooth box, Belkin BT network deal; homey, can I use that box with a regular fone line or am I oblidged/obligated to use a friggin cell phone and what not (due to the hardware configuration) ? dgiovanni :D

Mon, we be talking nice fast network connectivity via ethernet (Belken has built-in USB print server too - compared to other $3-500 units its a good deal). So this particular access point (AP) is great if you have a home broadband network set up. Although I haven't tried it I think it can be configured to work with a single system connected to DSL/Cable.

I've used the Belkin at three locations without a hitch. Riding out over a network connection is the way to go to avoid phone data charges or having to pay elsewhere.

I think if you shared your dialup connection and had a cheap router/hub setup you might be able to jury rig the Belkin, but that is not it's intended purpose. It completely eliminates any funky extra software on your PC because the Belkin AP provides all the gateway, dns, etc. settings.

GZ

[Macabre Man]

If anyones read my posts elsewhere then you know how much I love my TT. Its the best thing to me. I gave up my NR70v for it and I could not be happier. :)

[davy19]

Originally posted by tbellas
If anyones read my posts elsewhere then you know how much I love my TT. Its the best thing to me. I gave up my NR70v for it and I could not be happier. :)

the biggest problem for me is no keyboard


In fact I never even owned a PDA ever, until the NR70v, came out, and only reason that intriguied me was the built in keyboard.

I cannot stand using graffitii, have no patiences, and since i am use to a pager with a mini keybaord, it is second hand nature for me.


If it was not for Sony, and their designs I would probably never even care about palm.

[jaimejr66]

Generally Speaking Sony has always been able to find innovative ways to improve an existing product. The Clie being one example of the multitude of Consumer Electronics that Sony has brought to production. I find the in General Clies have been superior to Palm products in almost every single way. Until Now...

On the Wireless front, Palm has jumped into the Technical lead with Their Tungsten line of products. Between 802.11 B, Bluetooth and Now with the Tungsten-W Cellular connectivity. Palm is without a doubt the Wireless leader.

Don't get me wrong. I Love me Clie and the NZ is a Great technological feat. I will be first in line, If (Hopefully When) Sony release a model that can give me the same wireless options as the Tungsten Line.

Come on Sony. I know you can do it!!!!

[davy19]

huh i dont understand the nz90 has built in bluetooth, and wifi capability with a card

persoanlly as far as the tungsten w goes, it is nice, but too expensive per month for my wireless needs

[gatezone]

I have been waiting for the T-w to be released and finally played with it at CompUSA last week. I know it is a different animal, a converged device and all that, but I am disappointed. Why...?


No bluetooth which would go nicely with a headphone only phone - if anyone knows differently please post but the box says nothing about it and the device preferences doesn't have BT settings like the TT.
Plastic case that feels cheap compared to Tungsten T
Slower OS 4.x
Old slower processor
No graffiti area - sometimes I like to have the option.
Wider than TT


I'd rather use TT with bluetooth phone for now. Palm [and Sony] are just a few steps away from a really great unified palm telephone device, but neither are quite there.

ATT sales person wouldn't sell me the SE bluetooth phone, said it was a piece of *$#% and sold me a Nokia 6310i for less. Forums I've read consistently mention bad voice reception on the SE 'toy' phone.

GZ

[mashoutposse]

Gatezone -- you do realize that the NZ has Bluetooth built-in, right?

Anyway, we all have different needs -- an $800 PDA can't possibly be for everyone. Personally, the day Sony stops making clamshell PDAs is the day I move back to PPC (or paper). Other PDAs are too 'vanilla' for me to justify spending hundreds of dollars. When I put $600 into an NX or $800 into an NZ, I feel like I'm getting the style, capabilities, and features to match. Whereas if I had spent $500 on a Tungsten, 'cheated' is the first thing to come to mind. I'm obviously not the only one -- the consumers have done an excellent job of making it known that they will not be taken advantage of, forcing Palm and retailers to bring T|T pricing to where it should be. $300-350 is what it should have debuted at.

There's no question that you're getting your $800's worth with the NZ90 (just as you're getitng your $300's worth with the T|T) -- it's basically up to the buyer whether to splurge. Not everyone needs, wants, or can afford a $120,000 SL600 as a daily driver, but that certainly doesn't take anything away from the car itself ;)

[gatezone]

mashoutposse said: Gatezone -- you do realize that the NZ has Bluetooth built-in, right?

Yes, which is why I took it home with me in the first place (before returning it). Someone else here didn't seem to realize the NZ has two types of wireless available.

Otherwise I agree with what you are saying. My purpose with the thread was just to provide some first-hand experience regarding driving the smaller car and to share some things that are impossible to know until you get 'behind the wheel.' That experience is, of course, subjective.

For its current price of right around $300 the Tungsten T is a very comfortable place to be while watching to see what the next wave brings in. The T also corners very well... :eek: GZ

[PhilB]

Originally posted by gatezone
mashoutposse said: Gatezone -- you do realize that the NZ has Bluetooth built-in, right?
...
For its current price of right around $300 the Tungsten T is a very comfortable place to be while watching to see what the next wave brings in. The T also corners very well... :eek: GZ

Yes, but eventually you have to give up the skates and move to a real car. (Bad! Bad! Z owner!:p )

[gatezone]

[PhilB says: Yes, but eventually you have to give up the skates and move to a real car. (Bad! Bad! Z owner! ) Yes, but eventually you have to give up the skates and move to a real car. (Bad! Bad! Z owner! ) :p

We could drive this metaphor into the ground and around the bend. But seriously... I like the metaphor because different cars fit different driving conditions... and personalities.

GZ :cool:

[TritonB7]

Originally posted by mashoutposse
Gatezone -- you do realize that the NZ has Bluetooth built-in, right?

Anyway, we all have different needs -- an $800 PDA can't possibly be for everyone. Personally, the day Sony stops making clamshell PDAs is the day I move back to PPC (or paper). Other PDAs are too 'vanilla' for me to justify spending hundreds of dollars. When I put $600 into an NX or $800 into an NZ, I feel like I'm getting the style, capabilities, and features to match. Whereas if I had spent $500 on a Tungsten, 'cheated' is the first thing to come to mind. I'm obviously not the only one -- the consumers have done an excellent job of making it known that they will not be taken advantage of, forcing Palm and retailers to bring T|T pricing to where it should be. $300-350 is what it should have debuted at.

There's no question that you're getting your $800's worth with the NZ90 (just as you're getitng your $300's worth with the T|T) -- it's basically up to the buyer whether to splurge. Not everyone needs, wants, or can afford a $120,000 SL600 as a daily driver, but that certainly doesn't take anything away from the car itself ;)

AMEN!

[gatezone]

Ok, ok.... I know I shouldn't say it, but....:rolleyes: I think my viewpoint isn't that a person can't afford the "Hummer" but, for the type of driving *I* do a Porsche is the superior driving machine and I like the feel of it better than the Hummer or the large Mercedes.

But for some terrain a bigger all purpose swiss-army knife of a car is just what the doctor ordered. Just thought I'd mix as many metaphor's as I could.

:D

GZ

[lanchman]

Wow, the metaphor's are flying here. I agree, the 32' fifth wheel is hard to tow with a Porsche.

[omgitsroy326]

you know... again.. i hate these constant ignorant people posting about the comparison w/ the TT.

The first question you should ask yourself is do you want a 2mp camera. If you say no then leave the NZ alone. I really hate it when people constantly say it's a brick or it's too fat. Again Why don't you get like a really crapy @ss TT and put a crappy 2mp digital camera and glue it together, now let's see the comparison mr unregistered w/ your "first hand experience" I'm glad you have a lot of experience w/ your hands.

[gatezone]

Sometimes people want/need to explore differences (as well as similarities) to help in the decision process. The camera is certainly a gross difference. There are other subtle ones that come into play. It's just a matter of the right tool for the right job -- and the right personal fit.

But thanks for the "ignorant" comment.... :(

[MarkS]

Hi gatezone,

FWIW, I have been using one of those *S#% SE phones (68i) for a few months now.

Overall, it works great and is as good as the Nokia's I used prior to that.

HTH,

Mark

[SNIP]

> ATT sales person wouldn't sell me the SE >bluetooth phone, said it was a piece of *$#% >and sold me a Nokia 6310i for less. Forums >I've read consistently mention bad voice >reception on the SE 'toy' phone.

> GZ