JackFlash/Sprat for T3

[tanker_bob]

I updated my JackFlash/Sprat tutorial here (http://tankerbob.com/palm/jack_primer.htm) for the T3. Spent some time this weekend troubleshooting the setup for JackSprat 3.0b3 and JackFlash 3.0b11. Brayer (http://www.brayder.com/) warns about problems with the T3 and is close to having a fix available. In the meantime, I believe I've found a stable configuration and gained almost 9MB of Flash as a result. YMMV.

[matrix42]

Let me just say thanks Tanker Bob, great info, actually might even give it a try, I have been extremely hesitant about using these two products ( although had used Jackflash on a M505 in the past with no problems) my hesitancy is also fueled by the fact that the last the "public" has heard is that: "We hope to have a fix shortly. " [Dec 29/03], Perhaps if Brayder put a wee bit of effort in to communicating the status I'd feel better. Right now it's a risk do I want to pay $26.95US for "beta" software to gain 8-9MB of extra space?
-Scott

[Mech_TT3]

The only reason I can see for using Jackflash on a T3 would be to put something like TealLock in memory to preclude someone from bypassing the security by using a hard reset.

I had my IIIc setup that way, and I assume that is still valid reasoning with the T3?

Phil

[MonkeyK]

What security do you need if somone does a hard reset?

[Mech_TT3]

Originally posted by MonkeyK
What security do you need if somone does a hard reset?

The possibility of having the unit returned if someone finds they can't use it. Or the satisfaction of knowing they can't use it if they don't return it.

[yorrick]

My experience on the T3 has been far less than satisfactory with JackFlash/Jacksprat.

I recently (beginning of February) bought a T3 and loaded the T3 update, then loaded up JackFlash and Jacksprat. It cleared out a lot of room, but I had a lot of white screen of death resets in which you waited for the battery to discharge completely.

Oddly enough, I had a fault with the T3 unit in the battery or something, so I ended up having to return and exchange for a new T3.

I have taken the opportunity to upload the new T3 update but not use JackFlash/Jacksprat and so far, I have not had any critical resets of the infamous "white screen of death".

Having said this, I feel it is important to say that with 64Mb of RAM, it is more than what I had in the past (16Mb on a T615C), so this hasn't required me to resort to freeing up flash .... yet! :)

I am sure TankerBob has resorted to this by now! :) :)

[KenSong]

Thank you Tanker Bob for the detailed guide. I too pack my Flash to the max even though I may have space in Ram as it allows BackupMan to backup much faster having moved about 10MB to Flash.

I have had the white screen of death about 20 times so now I have a specially made pin that allows me to open my slider to disconnect the battery and restore from BackupMan, all within 3 minutes and I'm back up and running. I test lots of software so I believe my Hard Resets are not common.

If I don't make risky tests, eg crash on purpose, JackSprat/JackFlash is well behaved.

One note:
8) VersaMail and Extras - I don't do email on my T3, so didn't need this

I found that if these are removed, some may have problems with Exchange Manager the the call to send files via Bluetooth may cause a crash.

[tanker_bob]

No problem. I never use Bluetooth and in fact wanted to remove it from the Flash. I sent a note to Brayder about the Hotsync problems after removing Bluetooth support. I hope that they'll produce a stub to compensate.

[Brownster]

Tanker Bob,

Curious...how often or many white screens of death have you seen while using Sprat and Flash on your T3. I had good look for a couple of weeks. But then started getting white screens of death and it became annoying enough that I restored my T3.

Thanks,
Jim

[tanker_bob]

Jim,

None so far. I had two white screens of death before the Jacks--one with Docs to Go and one with an app I was testing. I think both were caused by conflicts with Palm's updated Security 5.0p. I use TealLock, so I removed the security update. No problems since. YMMV.

[yorrick]

Just as an aside. Is it possible to do another T3 update to over-ride the ROM image to restore it again?

Or is it possible to reload the ROM image that was created using Jacksprat back into ROM?

[KenSong]

I would suggest you do a ROM image restore before doing a T3 update.

[PatrickS]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
Brayer (http://www.brayder.com/) warns about problems with the T3 and is close to having a fix available. Just because I love these toys so much, I'm looking forward to working with JackFlash, but I really, really don't want to be a guinea pig. Your ROM is your Palm, after all. It seems to be a very, very hit-or-miss affair with these tools right now, even amongst folks with long time experiences with Palm.

I'm curious, bob, why you think Brayder is close to a fix? As someone else pointed out, they said that a long time ago and we haven't heard a peep from them since.

[tanker_bob]

I've been exchanging email with them attempting to nail down the problem.

[KenSong]

This was the response I got from Brayder a few days back.

Kenny:
We are still working on the issue. Members of the Development Team are
returning from the Palm Developers conference held last week and hopefully
have more ideas on how to solve it.

We will post the new release as soon as possible.

The Support Team
Brayder Technologies Inc.

[mattyparanoid]

Not to slam them too hard as I have used thier stuff in the past and found it to be useful, but COME ON....this software has been in beta for AGES!!!

I cannot recall a beta being around as long as JackFlash. I have a sneaking suspicion that they keep it in beta so that when a bug or problem is found they can say, "it is beta software after all, use it at your own risk, did you back up your data?"

Since my first 64 meg palm I have stayed away from Brayder products like they were the plague. It is just not worth the headache for me, not by a long shot.

Obviously it is worth it for some, but really, come on. All these betas, all this time, all the thrashed palms and ROMS and time wasted with battery drain resets, special pins to disconnect your battery, wow, I guess I am not as hardcore as I thought.

I would rather have my Palm be stable and usable without all that effort. I still have over 17 meg free on board, plus a 512 and 256 card. I love to tinker, but Brayder products do not have a lot of room for error when tinkering with them.

IMO, FlashPro and JackFlash used to be worth the effort when they could add 50% more memory, but not anymore. I have seen too many paperweight palms to care about trying any more.

Just my negative two cents. Brayder, release a stable final version or just drop it for cryin out loud...

mattyparanoid

[tanker_bob]

Well...I had a white screen of death today. TealLock came up, and after clearing the security, JackFlash was trying to load. There was no way it happened by accident. JackFlash somehow autoexecuted itself into a white screen of death. I simply popped off the slide, disconnected/reconnected the battery, then restored from my backup from the card. Not a big deal, but I think I'll wait for Brayder's fix at this point.

[matrix42]

I think I'll wait for a non beta release, white screens of death, draining the battery, specially designed pins to pop open your Palm. I mean really.....
Imagine if Palm had implemented this functionality as part of the OS and it behaved this way, we would all be screaming...
Remember the SD Card issue!!
-Scott

[KenSong]

I agree. However, I have had enough white screen of death to know how to avoid it if I want and so I chose to live with it. It sometimes happens when I test software and had to delete some Saved preferences through InWatch. If I delete using SysTool, no problems.

Majority of the case (about 5 times) was when I was testing the new Fonts4OS5 for Lubak. He managed to resolve that (v2.1) so I won't be needing those pins for the moment ;-P

[PatrickS]

Originally posted by mattyparanoid
I have a sneaking suspicion that they keep it in beta so that when a bug or problem is found they can say, "it is beta software after all, use it at your own risk, did you back up your data?"
I think you put into words very well what I and perhaps a whack of other people are thinking. Remember, though, that most software has no warranty, whether it is in beta or not.

[Wolvy]

What about moving JackFlash onto a SD card after you have moved items to flash??? I've done that for the moment. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I did NOT load JackSafe but have FlashEnable on my SD card.

[yorrick]

It's fine to move Jackflash into the SD card. All Jackflash does is move programs to and from flash and RAM.

[PDH LA]

Being one of the brave, risk-taking guys that I am, I followed Tanker Bob's tutorial for the T3 and I have had no problems whatsoever with both Jackflash and Jacksprat. I've been using it for a week now and I use quite a few third party products but have seen no problems yet. (Cross fingers!). I'm using things like PXAclocker, Tealscript, Codediver, FontsOS5 and other products that one might expect to cause problems . . . but so far none.

I now have 75% of my flash memory available for use. Now I can start adding all those magnificent games with amazing graphics that tend to take up 2-4 mb each.

Thanks Tanker Bob!

[tanker_bob]

:)

Hope it all holds up for you. I may try again. I think that this last time it didn't like TealLock being activated automatically from Flash. I should probably stick to programs that don't capture OS calls for a living.

[vansouza]

When using the Jacks how much ram do you end up with as free? The lowest I have gone is 11megs when I needed 8 maps in ram for my GPS guided trip from LV, NV to Disneyland. Just wondering...

[tanker_bob]

I think that I had about 12 MB free RAM or so. I have about 5.7 MB free now, and will also move some databases from the card to the 9MB of Flash I have available there.

[matrix42]

Hi Tanker Bob

Did you remove "extra languages" ??

thx
-Scott

[tanker_bob]

Yep. That alone brought me up to 4 MB free Flash.

[matrix42]

Hey Thanks!

Just wish I had a little more intestinal fortitude :-)

-Scott

[hermann4711]

hi, there are new betas on brayders homepage. Has anybody tested it on tt3?
Hermann

[alex_lorenzo]

Hi Hermann,

The new JackFlash and JackSprat betas seem to be more stable (well, JF beta 11 WAS quite stable already in my T3 !!). I had NO crash with JackSprat, hard or soft ;-)

Unfortunately, I had already "cleaned" my ROM so my testing was just opening-closing the apps, and updating the rom with JS with zero changes, so I don't know if it will work without hard resets (beta 11 did work for me, further uses caused soft or hard resets).

Alex

[tanker_bob]

Alex,

Do the docs for JackSprat3.0b4 say anything about creating a stub for Bluetooth removal? I had a problem with Hotsyncing after Bluetooth support removal and requested that Brayder create a stub to fix that. Thanks.

[tanker_bob]

Well, I just loaded JackFlash3.0b12 and dumped a bunch of stuff into it. Went from 5.7 MB free RAM to 14.2 MB. I avoided apps that intercept system calls. So far, so good...

[matrix42]

Hi Folks

Took the plunge..
Have installed JackSprat and removed the following with no ill effects so far.

Languages
RealOne
Kinoma
Docs to Go
Docs to Go Extras
Photos

Leaving 8512K free flash,

Only two left that I am considering are Expense (should be OK) and Quick Tour, has anybody removed Quick Tour without problems?

Thanks

-Scott

[PDH LA]

I have removed both Expense and Quick Tour and I have experienced no problems.

[snark]

Can the "Welcome" application be removed?

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by snark
Can the "Welcome" application be removed?
Yes. Did that on my T665C with no problem.

[FrankG]

Hmmmm..... only one white screen of death that popped up months ago. So far the old Jacks have been behaving -- do I upgrade to prevent future problems or hold my cards as is?

Also, if ROM is already cleaned out, would invoking the new JS fix whatever ROM problem there had been from the old JS? To fix it, do I need to simply invoke invoke JS and update (as alex_lorenzo did); invoke, delete, & update; or invoke, restore, delete, and update ROM??

Telling questions indeed,
Frank

[alex_lorenzo]

Tanker Bob:
I quote the JackSprat user's guide PDF:

(Section: Items which can be removed by JackSprat, Palm Specific:)
"Bluetooth
If Bluetooth networking is not required, it may be removed. On The Tungsten|T, this also disables the build-in Voice Memo application."

Pretty sparse, isn't it?
I can't help you with a direct experience, because I do use bluetooth a lot.
good luck

[darhorn]

this beta is working great on my T3, removed languages, expense, welcome, quick tour so far...

having a couple issues with some apps that dont like to go to flash... cause a reset after you exit the app, and then you have to do a warm reset to get back into the device... all works correctly after they are moved back to ram...

aeroplayer, palmary clock, and splash photo all had issues..

Resco viewer, mobipocket, and palm reader all seem to work fine in flash

Tanker Bob, is there a list of apps that people have found that work in flash?

[darhorn]

also have another issue... been trying to remove blueboard.. used it once, but never have been able to delete it... jackflash tells me that it is in use and cant be deleted... how can i get it to not be in use?

[matrix42]

Hi Darrin

Yes, a list of Flashable/No Flashable apps would be nice from folks with experience, Perhaps some sort of sticky post in this forum??

-Scott

[vansouza]

How can one save the ROM to the hard drive instead of the SD external memory? I do not trust it....

[PDH LA]

I think the only option is to save the ROM backup to the SD card. I'd recommend you copy the ROM backup files from the SD card to your hard drive so you have a a second backup in case you have a problem with the SD card.

I use Cardexport which makes this a fairly easy proposition.

[Vidge]

Once you guys have this all worked out, I'll give it a shot. :D:D

I agree this thread ought to be a sticky. Mods?

[matrix42]

I know there are a few Mapopolis users out there, so just to let you know I've tried moving maps to Flash with no joy!

I'm using the latest (as of today) beta of Mapoplois

-Scott

[tanker_bob]

I've been using JackFlash3.0b12 since yesterday without incident. I've avoided putting any apps that capture interrupts into the Flash. Of course, I have a good backup on a card and on the PC.

[vansouza]

Why do we need more memory when we have so much ram to begin with.. I mean the cost of deleting even just the languages seems so high... help me understand...

[matrix42]

Good point, Clieman, why did I spend 26.95 on 8MB of memory.

I think it's just for the luv of the tweak, we all luv fiddl'n with these things :-)

At least it's not as messy as tuning your car

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by Clieman
Why do we need more memory when we have so much ram to begin with.. I mean the cost of deleting even just the languages seems so high... help me understand...


Well I use JF because I want to know that in an event that I have a fatal crash I will have my "must have app's still on the unit".
If I am traveling and I crash I will still have app's like backupman in the ROM otherwise I am dead in the water.
Its a guarantee as to a backup, that no matter what will have utility app's in hand..

[tanker_bob]

Ditto. Plus, I'd filled up my RAM and my 256MB SD card at one point. The extra 9215K provides significant breathing room.

[yorrick]

TB - I went for a 512Mb Kingston SD card. I knew I'd fill up 256Mb in no time at all! :) :)

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by yorrick
TB - I went for a 512Mb Kingston SD card. I knew I'd fill up 256Mb in no time at all! :) :)
What kind of VFS scores do you get? I have my eye on a 512 MB Panasonic card, which forum posts indicate writes 5x faster than my Toshiba card. Read performance for the Panasonic is a bit slower, but not nearly as dramatic.

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by yorrick
TB - I went for a 512Mb Kingston SD card. I knew I'd fill up 256Mb in no time at all! :) :)
Well I already have filled up a 256, I have a Panasonic 512MB now.
Next I think I will go right to a 1 GIG card when available.

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by n0m0n
Well I already have filled up a 256, I have a Panasonic 512MB now.
Next I think I will go right to a 1 GIG card when available.
How do you like the Panasonic card for speed, and where did you get it?

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
How do you like the Panasonic card for speed, and where did you get it?

I got my card on e-bay.
I could not wish to get this card for the price that I did.
I won it for $112.00 plus 5.00 shipping.
As to quality well recently I purchased a SanDisk while waiting for my Panasonic card was being warranted and I had nothing but trouble getting it to work.
Actually for 3 days I could not get it to work.
I would try to format every which way and still after a few uses I would get a message that would say the T3 could not recognize the card.
I got my Panasonic card back, and I have not had a problem in a week now.
So I would pay full price for the Panasonic after my recent experiences.
As to speed I just ran VFSMark and the VFSMark is: 607
I’ve seen better but its faster then the SanDisk which VFSMArk rated 4.6.
The SanDisk cost me 199.99 plus tax.
To sum this up.
The Panasonic card cost me less its faster and it works.
I know that they are sold at any fine camera shop within my TriState area.
Hope this helps…

[tanker_bob]

Thanks! That confirms what I've heard before. I'll be getting a Panasonic 512 MB card shortly.

[PDH LA]

Originally posted by Clieman
Why do we need more memory when we have so much ram to begin with.. I mean the cost of deleting even just the languages seems so high... help me understand...

It's not hard to fill up that memory. Apps like World Encyclodpedia take up over 10 MB. Some of the new games can take 4-5 MB each. And those of us who have had PDAs for several years have collected quite a few third party apps.

Since I've used Jackflash/Jacksprat for the last 2-3 years, I already own the software and I've had zero problems with deleting apps from ROM on my T3. (Of course I waited for others to blaze the trail on the new beta version, but following Tanker Bob's tutorial worked for me).

So for me, the cost is low - no problems at all - and the benefit is high. I can keep everything in RAM and minimize the need for my SD card. I primarily use my SD card to hold my photos.

[KenSong]

Not to mention we can remove outdated applications like DocsToGo and replace them with the latest :)

[matrix42]

Could some folks who have stuff in flash that's working OK, post what you have in Flash, may save some trial and error for folks just installing it now.

Thanks

[PDH LA]

Originally posted by matrix42
Could some folks who have stuff in flash that's working OK, post what you have in Flash, may save some trial and error for folks just installing it now.

Thanks

I have the following apps installed in Flash:

Webpro (I removed the old version from ROM)
Avantgo
Agendus
Documents (for Docs to Go)
WordToGo
SheetToGO
Repligo
Tip Top
Bonsai
Zlauncher
PalmReader
Yahtzee
AcidImage
SlideShowToGO
BugMe!
Patience (Kickoo)
Bejeweled
Metro
CardExport

[tech.junkie]

yup! a list of apps working on d T3's flash is a good idea. maybe we can start a separate thread just like d list of palm hires+ software started by keelin. :)

[tech.junkie]

Originally posted by PDH LA
I have the following apps installed in Flash:

Webpro (I removed the old version from ROM)
Avantgo
Agendus
Documents (for Docs to Go)
WordToGo
SheetToGO
Repligo
Tip Top
Bonsai
Zlauncher
PalmReader
Yahtzee
AcidImage
SlideShowToGO
BugMe!
Patience (Kickoo)
Bejeweled
Metro
CardExport



thanks 4 d list. correct me if im wrong but i think web pro is not installed in d flash. and i dont think its a good idea to place zlauncher in flash bec. its frequently updated by d developer. ;)

[PDH LA]

Originally posted by palm_enthusiast
thanks 4 d list. correct me if im wrong but i think web pro is not installed in d flash. and i dont think its a good idea to place zlauncher in flash bec. its frequently updated by d developer. ;)

You may be right about WebPro.

As for Zlauncher - I've decided to forgo the many beta versions and just stick with major releases. The functionality is so robust, and I'm tired of tweaking it, so I'm just keeping the current version in Flash until they do a major upgrade.

[matrix42]

Thanks PDH LA

I also have:

NoviiRemote
Mobile Paint
Point World
MegaCalc
Kinoma

-Scott

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
I've been using JackFlash3.0b12 since yesterday without incident. I've avoided putting any apps that capture interrupts into the Flash. Of course, I have a good backup on a card and on the PC.

Hi all

Great thread I had been using b11 for what seemed like ages and then it just froze on me last night! Anyway back to the point, I am a novice and would like to be able to avoid the programs mentioned above. One question, which ones are they? Can we have a seperate list for those that should NEVER be put in flash?

Cheers

David:confused:

[matrix42]

Hi David

So far the only non-flashable things mentioned in this thread are:

Non-Flashable:

Aeroplayer
Palmary clock
Splash photo
Mapopolis Maps ( the DB's)

I agree with your request, but baring that, a good list of flashable stuff (as we are getting) should help you fill it up and then not worry about what wont go in flash, just a thought.

I'm look'n for big apps that are flashable and ( based on history ) don't change much as good candidates.

-Scott

[KenSong]

Here's Mine:

AcidImage
Agendus
BibleThumper
BugMe!
ContactsPro
DocsToGo
SheetToGo
InWatch
iSilo
JFile
JpegLib
MathLib
MyBible
PocketMoney
RIcon Manager
RsrcEdit
Shadow
SysTool
Webpro
Wordsmith

[matrix42]

My Final additions:

powerOne Graph
Slideshow to go
SmartChart
Wordtogo

-Scott

[tanker_bob]

At the moment, I have the following in Flash:

KJV with Stong's database plus Hebrew and Greek Lexicons for BibleReader+
CardSync
CASLrt library
CryptInfo
The entirety of Documents To Go Premium 6.005 including the spell check program with its database, the charting program, and font database
JpegLib
MathLib
McCalc (by Solutions in Hand)
McFile
MyBible with the 4 NKJV databases
ZLib

That accounts for about 9,215K of Flash (1K left free), leaving 15,094K free RAM. So far (3 days), JackFlash 3.0b12 has been perfectly stable. Even with JackSprat3.0b4, removing Bluetooth support still requires a soft reset after a Hotsync to get the next Hotsync to work. Otherwise, everything works fine.

[eurisko]

After seeing everything that went wrong with the previous betas on the T3, I was of course a little shy to try it. However, since I had always had great luck with Brayder's products in the past, I figured I would give it a try. I assumed this beta had been tested hard on the T3's before he released it.

Ok, I'm happy.

JackSprat:
1.) I did a full backup of the ROM to my SD Card (takes about 15-16 megs)
2.) I removed:

Kinoma
Real Player
Documents to Go
QuickTour
Photos

3.) I removed extra languages

Freed up about 9 megs of Flash total.

JackFlash:
1.) I added JackSafe support.
2.) Here are the applications I placed in Flash:

Qubix 320
WebPro 3
NoviiRemote
AvantGo (Build 66, but assume the newer one would be fine)
Contacts 5
Billards
Trivial Pursuit
Kinoma
Kinoma Video Lib
KinomaPalmAu
Pocket Quicken
Sonic
RB Tapper
BFC

You may wonder why I didn't do the obvious by putting Documents to Go back into ROM.

Even though he Customized JackSprat to properly remove all parts Documents to Go properly in this version, JackFlash doesn't have the option to put the whole thing into Flash. It only sees the Doctuments program, but not the parts that are hidden, like the much larger Word to Go, etc. SO, (considering there is an update due shortly anyway) I just left it in regular memory.

I avoided any applications that make system calls/interupts, etc. I considered PDA Defense due to the security of having it in Flash, but decided to chicken out on that one. :)

The ONLY 'quirk' I noticed during the entire time was when I ran Jacksprat the first time, and chose Backup Rom (which requires 16 megs on the SD card, which I didn't. When I left the program, it did the infamous 'white screen of death'. However, a soft reset worked just fine. I tried to reproduce the error, and it ONLY seems to happen if you go to do a backup, get the warning about enough space, then leave the program. *shrug*

[PDH LA]

Originally posted by Eurisko
. . .You may wonder why I didn't do the obvious by putting Documents to Go back into ROM.

Even though he Customized JackSprat to properly remove all parts Documents to Go properly in this version, JackFlash doesn't have the option to put the whole thing into Flash. It only sees the Doctuments program, but not the parts that are hidden, like the much larger Word to Go, etc. SO, . . .

Are sure about this? On my T3 I have the files Documents, WordToGo, SheetToGo, and SlideshowToGo all stored in Flash memory with Jackflash.

[eurisko]

Well, actually, after stating that, I was looking at it. It appears you have to put each piece in manually?

Shortly, 6.006 should be out as well, I may go back to try to put it in at that point. (Hate to push my luck changing it around now. lol )

So far, still working great though. Glad I gave it another go after the last betas.

[PDH LA]

Yes, you have to move each file separately into Flash. where did you hear about the updated version? Do you know what will be updated?

[eurisko]

TrackerDog gave it away. :)

Someone in beta is using TrackerDog. If you aren't familiar with TrackerDog, it is a freeware program that tracks all your Palm apps and tells you what versions have newer updates available. :) It's for the more "obsessive" users.

http://trackerdog.a0soft.com

[matrix42]

The new build of AvantGo 5.3 b77, works fine in Flash it also fixes the anoying scrolling issue i.e. you can now start it with the DIA collapsed and the scroll bar is no longer hidden!! At this rate they should have a version that supports the full screen sometime this decade! :-)

-Scott

[eurisko]

Yeah, actually, build 77 does fix the scrolling issue, which is a problem. :( See, with Build 66, and CodeDiver 1 B6, you could get Full screen with AvantGo. :) It is really nice on the T3. So I went back to Build 66 right after seeing build 77 'fixed' the issues, but broke it so it won't work with CodeDiver anymore.

I wish they would just come out with native longscreen support.

[DavidG]

Perhaps we should have a list od apps in flash, those that should not and those that work OK on cards. These list would need electronic orgaisers to keep track off. perhaps we should get Palms?:-)

[eurisko]

JackFlash 3.0 Beta 14 is now available:

JackFlash 3.0b14 (March 5, 2004)
- Bugfix: Fixed disabled MemoryStick bug
introduced with 3.0b12

JackFlash 3.0b12 (March 1, 2004)
- Bugfix: Worked around bug in Flash chip that
was causing a lockup on the T3.

[KenSong]

Originally posted by Eurisko
Yeah, actually, build 77 does fix the scrolling issue, which is a problem. :( See, with Build 66, and CodeDiver 1 B6, you could get Full screen with AvantGo. :) It is really nice on the T3. So I went back to Build 66 right after seeing build 77 'fixed' the issues, but broke it so it won't work with CodeDiver anymore.

I wish they would just come out with native longscreen support.

Yes, that's exactly what I did too. I wrote to them and this is their response.

Thanks for contacting AvantGo Support!

This is a known issue with our software and the Tungsten devices. The problem is that the landscape screen is 480 X 320. Our software sends the request through our server as a 320 X 320 screen. Then when the information goes back to the device it is in 320 X 320 and the right side bar/silk screen takes up this space. We will post any information on the support of this screen. our apologies for the inconvenience this may cause in the interim.

[eurisko]

Bah, clearly they don't understand how their own software works.

I had the pleasure of talking to their support awhile back. I had to teach them about the T3_DIA_Compatibility_prcs. They (as a Palm developer) didn't know what they were. Without them, build 66 worked fine, when you installed them, you got the funky issues with it. After that conversation, they released Build 77 a couple weeks later to "fix" it. *sigh*

I'll keep using Build 66 with CodeDiver for now. It works perfectly, and scrolls as it should. Seems like they are taking the 'lazy' approach to this.

[Toem]

Hi,

i´m the developer of T3AgendaBG. An application for changing Agenda Backgrounds and DIA-Skins on the T3.

I've got mails from people they have problems with changing DIA-Skins after deleting Languages with JackSprat on their T3.

Do users they delete languages and use english on T3 the same problems and have anyone an idea to solve the problem for non-english T3s ?

Toem

[underpress]

Hi ,
what soft you are install in ROM??????
very not agreeing!!!!

thanks!!!

Marco

[motionmind]

Originally posted by Toem

I've got mails from people they have problems with changing DIA-Skins after deleting Languages with JackSprat on their T3.

Toem

I deleted the languages on mine and had no problems changing the DIA at all...before or after the ROM tampering. :D

BTW...has anyone else noticed that Jacksprat 3b4 on a t3 kills your ability to beam and locks it up any time you try? I delete jacksprat and beaming magically works again.

[eurisko]

How odd. I haven't had any beaming issues on mine. Interesting.

[motionmind]

Originally posted by motionmind
has anyone else noticed that Jacksprat 3b4 on a t3 kills your ability to beam and locks it up any time you try? I delete jacksprat and beaming magically works again.

Okay...I've traced this a little further. It seems that jacksprat only locks my T3 when I try to beam something if Beam Receive is turned on. When it's off, everything is fine, even without deleting Jacksprat like i had to do with Beam Receive on. One more bug to add to a long list I guess. Oddly enough though, I've never had the WSoD.

[motionmind]

has anyone been successful in removing the built-in PIM apps and putting Beyond Contacts in rom? I realize that this isn't hires+ ready, but I'd like to try anyway.

[eurisko]

Is Beyond Contacts a conduit that syncs to something on the desktop besides Palm Desktop? By default, you don't want to remove those, as the Hotsync manage connects to the Contacts/Address application piece on the Palm. Most programs that replace Contacts/Calendar/Tasks/Notes aren't full conduits, and just write to the same database format, and thus the hotsync talks to the default PIM to do the actual sync of data.

Or something like that.

[papashex]

I found that Beyond Contacts would not run if I had removed Versamail from the t3 rom. Even if I chose not to use the e-mail support during BC install.

With versamail left in rom BC worked fine from flash. I would rather have the 2 meg that versamail and add-ons use in the flash, so I will end up removing BC when the jacksprat/flash software stabilizes.

[motionmind]

Well, Beyond Contacts just lost the fight if I have to put VersaMail back into rom to get it to work.

[eurisko]

Yeah, I don't fully understand the relationship but from what I can tell, BlueTooth/Phone/Versamail all somehow interact with each other, and can cause oddities in other applications if they are removed.

I'm not sure if it's the programs themselves, or a library file associated with one, but is also used by another app to save space.

[motionmind]

I found this on the Brayder website...the way I read it, it says that you can remove the PIM appz from memory and still have replacements sync as long as the databases still exist.


"JackSprat correctly handles the default Palm conduits. For each of the default conduits: DateBook, AddressBook, ToDo, MemoPad, Expense, NotePad and Mail, it installs a hidden stub program which will make sure that the conduit still runs. This allows replacement applications to still use the Palm conduits."

[eurisko]

oooooo I was WRONG. :) I stand corrected. Good info to know. Thanks!

[papashex]

I should have mentioned that Versamail was the only thing removed from rom. Jackflash was not even enabled yet, but beyond contacts in ram crashed with prefsdb open error.

Just waiting on 3.b5 now. I'm willing to be amused and try again. It's worth it for the 11M free flash I gain (or am shooting for at least).

[motionmind]

Well, it seems that my setup crashes with Beyond Contacts reguardless of what I do.

[sweetlu]

Is it safe to delete the following files from Flash with JackSprat:
Docs to go: 1975K
Docs to go ext: 400k

and replace them with the following files that are located in RAM from ver 6.005 with Jackflash:
Documents 217K
Sheet to go: 552K
Slideshow to go: 305K
Word to go: 719K

anybody knows why the total of the 4 files (1790K) is lower than the Docs to go in Flash.

Can't move the 4 files to flash since Jackflash gives me a "duplicate Found" message. I wonder if that Docs to go file in flash contains more that the four files located in RAM.

[matrix42]

Hi

I have the following Docs to Go stuff in Flash ( which I moved there, from RAM after deleting same from flash)

Word to GO
Sheet to GO
Slideshow to GO
Documents
SmartChart

Everything works fine!!

-Scott

[eurisko]

I would try each one, one at a time and narrow it down. At that point, I would contact Brayder support with your findings.

I'm curious, did you happen to of ran the T3 Update on your T3?

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by sweetlu
Is it safe to delete the following files from Flash with JackSprat:
Docs to go: 1975K
Docs to go ext: 400k

and replace them with the following files that are located in RAM from ver 6.005 with Jackflash:
Documents 217K
Sheet to go: 552K
Slideshow to go: 305K
Word to go: 719K

anybody knows why the total of the 4 files (1790K) is lower than the Docs to go in Flash.

Can't move the 4 files to flash since Jackflash gives me a "duplicate Found" message. I wonder if that Docs to go file in flash contains more that the four files located in RAM.
Yes, DTG is more than those 4 files. Look at the prc and pbd files in the Documents To Go directory on your PC. JackFlash3.0b3 doesn't remove them all, but 3.0b4 does.

[sweetlu]

So are you guys saying you deleted DTG and DTG Ext from flash and moved the four files from RAM to flash.

I have JSB4 and JFB14

I looked in the DTG folder in my PC and did not see any prc or pdb files.

What I did was open the "install Handheld app" diolog box and noticed that the five apps (includes DTG fonts) = 2695K.

I got no Smartchart app on the t3.

Wonder if I should delete all the DTG apps in flash and RAM, reinstall the apps using the "install Handheld app" feature, then move them all to flash.

Has anybody tried it and been successful?

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
Yes, DTG is more than those 4 files. Look at the prc and pbd files in the Documents To Go directory on your PC. JackFlash3.0b3 doesn't remove them all, but 3.0b4 does.

You mean JackSprat don't you?
Maybe I missed something, for I have been traveling a bit lately.

[eurisko]

I have done it and it worked just fine. Not sure what the cause is. I would email support@brayder.com

[tanker_bob]

Originally posted by n0m0n
You mean JackSprat don't you?
Maybe I missed something, for I have been traveling a bit lately.
Oops. I should get more sleep.

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
Oops. I should get more sleep.

Not a problem.
Thought I missed a few updates!!!

[alex_lorenzo]

Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that I deleted Splash Screen from the T3 ROM, no problems so far, but... it didn't release the 90k it occupied, AND the palm logo now stands a little longer before the prefs. screen.

Didn't try a hard reset, though.

[sweetlu]

Originally posted by sweetlu
Wonder if I should delete all the DTG apps in flash and RAM, reinstall the apps using the "install Handheld app" feature, then move them all to flash.

did it and everything is OK, although there is no DTG Ext file listed anywhere (installed 2.6mb and JF/JS only lists the four files 1.7mb).

[CWolf]

Originally posted by Eurisko
TrackerDog gave it away. :)

Someone in beta is using TrackerDog. If you aren't familiar with TrackerDog, it is a freeware program that tracks all your Palm apps and tells you what versions have newer updates available. :) It's for the more "obsessive" users.

http://trackerdog.a0soft.com

Kewl, might have to give that one a try at some point.

At present I am going to chicken out of the whole Jack* issue, I like my T3 working...

Maybe when it is out of Beta - in fact definately.

Just curious, are there any other programs like Jack*?

[matrix42]

Hi Cwolf

I felt the same way "chicken out" but went for it with the release of the new beta's got about 8.5 megs for my $26 and no problems whatsoever. As for waiting for it to get out of beta don't hold your breath it's been in beta since before the earth's crust cooled. And as far as I know there are no other product(s) that does what the Jacks do..

-Scott

[CWolf]

Any White Screen? I have run most tweaks and a LOT of apps on T3, had crashes and lockups but no White Screen yet. Had it once on a Palm 515 tho - can't remember why...

If everything works on yours can you list what ya took off safely and what you put on?

[eurisko]

And as far as I know there are no other product(s) that does what the Jacks do..

Yeah, it's frustrating that there is no competition for their products.

I REALLY miss FlashPro. It worked so well for me, and didn't require a 'driver' component to always be running like JackFlash does. :(

[tanker_bob]

You don't need JackFlash in RAM after initial install and putting what you need in Flash. You only need it again if you hard reset and don't use Jacksafe, or you want to change the stuff in the Flash.

[matrix42]

Hi Cwolf

If you go back through this thread you'll see alot of what came out of flash and what went in, by various folks.

Here is what I took out:

Took the plunge..
Have installed JackSprat and removed the following with no ill effects so far.

Languages
RealOne
Kinoma
Docs to Go
Docs to Go Extras
Photos

Leaving 8512K free flash,

What I've got in is as follows:

WebPro
NoviiRemote
Mobile Paint
Avantgo
Sheet to GO
PointWorld
Word to Go
BackupMan Pro
Palm Reader Pro
SlideSHow to Go
Megacalc
SmartChart
Documents (togo)
Kinoma

Leaving me with 30K free flash

Have not had WSOD (knock on wood) but twice I had the screen go fade to white, but a soft reset was all it took and I cannot really fer sure attribute it to the Jacks..

-Scott

[CWolf]

Great! Thanks, I may well just try that...

[n0m0n]

Originally posted by matrix42
Hi Cwolf

If you go back through this thread you'll see alot of what came out of flash and what went in, by various folks.

Here is what I took out:

Took the plunge..
Have installed JackSprat and removed the following with no ill effects so far.

Languages
RealOne
Kinoma
Docs to Go
Docs to Go Extras
Photos

Leaving 8512K free flash,

What I've got in is as follows:

WebPro
NoviiRemote
Mobile Paint
Avantgo
Sheet to GO
PointWorld
Word to Go
BackupMan Pro
Palm Reader Pro
SlideSHow to Go
Megacalc
SmartChart
Documents (togo)
Kinoma

Leaving me with 30K free flash

Have not had WSOD (knock on wood) but twice I had the screen go fade to white, but a soft reset was all it took and I cannot really fer sure attribute it to the Jacks..

-Scott

BackupMan Pro???
There is no Pro version.
If so please offer a link
Thanks

[CWolf]

I think he means Backupman when it has been registered - paid for.

[matrix42]

Sorry folks, my bad it's just BackupMan 1.45


-S

[n0m0n]

K, Thought I missed another update or something.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I was going to send the author a email asking if I missed something

[CWolf]

HehHeh...

Well, I used JackSprat, only removed the languages but that gave me 4800k of Flash ROM. I then used JackFlash to add:

Agendus Pro, Backupman, Clock+, iSilo, PowerOn, PowerRun, PXA Clocker, ScreenShot, Tetris and of course Uninstall Manager...

Personally I think UM should come as standard anyway.

No WSOD... I don't think I would ever need to remove anything but the Languages anyway. Nothing else is worth having in ROM - I can just wait to get home and HotSync. Having the above in ROM just saves time and space with BackupMan.

[tanker_bob]

I've been operating trouble free with the newest Jacks (b14 and b4 respectively) on my T3 now for several weeks. Very happy camper.

[alexO]

Quote from Brayder web:

Please Note: JackSprat 3.0b4 is intermittently failing on the Tungsten T3. We are investigating this and hope to have a new version shortly that address this issue. T3 users should wait for a new release.

I guess I have to wait a little longer if I want to play the safe way :)

[tanker_bob]

Interesting. I haven't had any problems with it. Of course, I've only had to use it once. Thanks for the heads up!

[eurisko]

Yeah, mainly if any software applications are enabled (CodeDiver, Launchers, etc), and also when people are using localization software (Very bad things happen when you have that enabled and remove languages).

Avoid doing those things, and things work well on these betas. Working great on both mine and my roommate's T3s.

[tanker_bob]

Hmmm. I use CodeDiver (but not on the Jacks themselves) and ZLauncher with its pop-up favorites/recents enabled. But, JackSprat under OS 4.x has done a warm reset to disable hacks and all this other stuff when it executes. Brayder apparently must feel that this isn't required under OS 5.

[CWolf]

OK, this thread has been the most helpfull Jack one so far, so I am going to ask this here...

I want to move WebPro to Flash, I can't as it says it is in use... How do I stop it being in use?

[eurisko]

Reset your Palm and immediately run JackFlash to move it.

Had the same problem myself. Once you run it (webpro) once, it will say it's in use till you do a soft reset.

[CWolf]

Kewl. Thank you VERY much there Eurisko, it worked just fine.

[technical1]

Noticed several screens ago that some folks were talking about saving the ROM backup to another location besides the SD card.

Just get a card reader on USB & plug it into your PC & copy the files.

I've been doing it for a while for all sorts of Palm needs.


Good luck.

[CWolf]

Yeah, I have a backup on both hard drives, my cd and on card.

[Rebel154]

OK, simple question - I think.

I have used JackFlash & Sprat to remove and move things in and out of Flash memory on my T3. I get the odd crash but nothing major untoward has happened yet.

I have backed up the original ROM on a spare SD card and to my PC.

How do I restore the original ROM? I vaguely remember using a separate program on my OS4.1 Sony Clie T625C. I have read the JackFlash/Sprat manual but I can't find the answer - nor in these forums using search.

TIA

REB

[tanker_bob]

When JackSprat backs up your ROM, it creates a restore app called FlashWrite. You have to have the ROM image in RAM to restore it.

[Rebel154]

Originally posted by Tanker Bob
When JackSprat backs up your ROM, it creates a restore app called FlashWrite. You have to have the ROM image in RAM to restore it.

Thanks for the reply Bob. Initially, I couldn't find Flashwrite :( but have now found it in the appropriate folder on my back up SD card. :)

Thanks again

[tanker_bob]

:)

[jamester]

I'd like to say thanks for everybody who's participated in this thread - very informative!