Enough with the propriety book formats please!

[Edlin]

Hi,
Its not that I dont appericate the effort that goes into formating and making gutenberg texts more available and accessable, but why restrict to a propriety format! Even if the bulk of people have palm reader, it still could be in the standard palm doc format that Palm reader can read. That way no one misses out.
Its important imho that open standards are embraced & encougred for the growth & adoptation of ebooks.

[mikegehl]

Have you checked out MemoWare? All these books are already in Doc format.

[bryus]

I understand what you are saying. However, if you want Palm Doc formats you can easily make them yourself in about two minutes.

I prefer to post the Palm Reader formats because they are more professional and I consider them "value added" because they have the chapters and title tagged.

[ptc]

I disagree - Palm Doc format stinks, and the closest thing to a universal standard we have is Palm Reader. Every new Palm comes with Palm Reader, and it's multi-platform (PPC, PC).

[mikegehl]

Just want to clarify re: my post. I fully support you in your work to make PalmReader books available here at PalmOne City. I've downloaded four of them from here today. My comment on the wide availability of doc formatted books at MemoWare was directed at Edlin and anyone else who disagrees with having books in PalmReader format.

Thanks and keep the books coming!

[bryus]

Originally posted by mikegehl
Just want to clarify re: my post. I fully support you in your work to make PalmReader books available here at PalmOne City. I've downloaded four of them from here today. My comment on the wide availability of doc formatted books at MemoWare was directed at Edlin and anyone else who disagrees with having books in PalmReader format.

Thanks and keep the books coming!

I understand. I was really responding to Edlin.

[yorrick]

Palm text is similar to plain text on the PC (ie. *.txt file). Nothing flashy or great about it, but it can be read by any reader. You can test this by using any text reader program (tibr or cspotrun is a good start) and seeing if you can open the document and read it. If it comes out as plain text, then it isn't proprietary format.

PalmReader is almost universal in the context that almost every PDA sold comes with the software, but it is still proprietary formatting. It does not make itself a univeral standard since there are a few competing format types (mobi-reader, plucker and isilo come to mind).

Places like Memoware has the largest repository of free etext and many are in plain document format ie. pdb text format.
The next best place for novels and ebooks is at Fictionwise (www.fictionwise.com) where they sell proprietary text ebooks (mobi-reader, palmreader and microsoft reader), but also some plain text ebooks - and they are cheap!

[LanMan]

I will restate my one problem with PalmReader, no copy function. Therefore one cannot easily copy/paste a word/phrase into another program such as a dictionary. This makes it inconvenient to lookup words, and that is why I like other readers such as TiBR. I would like to see ebooks in DOC format since TiBR doesn't support the PR format. However, as it has already been mentioned, I can get all of the books listed at other sites in DOC format. So my complaint is really with Palm Digital Media, and not POC.

[bryus]

Originally posted by LanMan
I will restate my one problem with PalmReader, no copy function. Therefore one cannot easily copy/paste a word/phrase into another program such as a dictionary. This makes it inconvenient to lookup words, and that is why I like other readers such as TiBR. I would like to see ebooks in DOC format since TiBR doesn't support the PR format. However, as it has already been mentioned, I can get all of the books listed at other sites in DOC format. So my complaint is really with Palm Digital Media, and not POC.

Actually I think your complaint is more with DRM in general. Face it. If you could copy a portion of text of the the eBook DRM would be compromised. Any ebook format that is secured by DRM is going to have this problem.

Working with generic eText has the most flexibility, but has fewer titles.

[Omnitron]

Each to his own...

But I find formated text, whether it has lines or bold text, a lot better than some of the plaintext files I've seen. They are very hard to read as the text doesn't flow naturally. Especially in this day and age with different resolutions and orientations abounding....

I'll take PalmReader over the plain docs ANY day...

[edeab220]

How would you convert it to plain DOCs anyway?

[bryus]

Originally posted by edeab220
How would you convert it to plain DOCs anyway?

DocReader is a Windows desktop app that will open txt files. Then you can save them as Palm Doc files.

That is what I was using on PDA Avenue before. It only takes a minute.

[LanMan]

Originally posted by edeab220
How would you convert it to plain DOCs anyway?

DTG has an option to save a to a plain Palm doc format.

[LanMan]

Originally posted by bryus
Actually I think your complaint is more with DRM in general. Face it. If you could copy a portion of text of the the eBook DRM would be compromised. Any ebook format that is secured by DRM is going to have this problem.

Working with generic eText has the most flexibility, but has fewer titles.

I know that you are right,but it wouldn't hurt them to have a copy single word function. No one is going to take the time to pirate a book one word at a time. :)

[bryus]

Originally posted by LanMan
I know that you are right,but it wouldn't hurt them to have a copy single word function. No one is going to take the time to pirate a book one word at a time. :)

You never know, there are some truely dedicated pirates out there. ;)

[Edlin]

Well I sure seem to be in the minorty, so I'ld better shut up about it.
But as propriety formats really get up my nose, I`ll rant once more, & try not to get too high on the soapbox. & hopefully leave it at that....
Seeing the Gutenberg texts as a single application viewable format is to me very counter to what the project stands for : The World of Free Plain Vanilla Electronic Texts, and contrary to the spirit of the small print at the front of Gutenberg docs.
Palm Doc format stinks, and the closest thing to a universal standard we have is Palm Reader. Every new Palm comes with Palm Reader, and it's multi-platform
A couple of questions out that post.
Why does it stink? Electrons dont smell, so I assume you have actual reasons why you dislike the format of palmdoc, or things that the format cant support that you use? I understand chapter headings (though this isnt hard to similaute with palmdoc) and more font choices espically within the document eg using a quote in a different colour etc is useful.

The closest thing we have to an open standard is palmdoc, not palm reader format. Its closest because it is an open standard, able to be read by a variety of reader software, and converted to by a variety of ways.

Palm reader has never been included with my palms, when i used them, and isnt bundled with Sony Clies.

I`m not complaining because I dont know how to get the plain text version, or how to convert them to the standard PalmDoc format. And I think a lot of the posters here also have that knowledge (or should!)

I do think your adding a lot of value to the stuff you do bryus, & I really acknowledge how nice it is to see someone supporting free texts, and showing new users/reader thier availabilty. And even if its a work of pleasure, its still work to produce & upload ebooks for people.
But IMCO it lends itself to making new users to believe that palmreader is a standard. Using a propriety format strenghtens that formats popularity and lessens support for open standards. But I also see the best step would be to supply nice as possible palmdoc formated ebooks as well to show this choice:)

.... well /rant

[*YellowRose*]

Originally posted by Edlin
But I also see the best step would be to supply nice as possible palmdoc formated ebooks as well to show this choice:) That's a WONDERFUL idea! When can you start doing them, and can you do the Prince & the Pauper?

[Edlin]

I`ll start this week end & happy to take requests. So Prince & the Pauper will be first:)

[bryus]

I understand why someone wouldn't like Palm Doc format. It would be more like reading all your eBooks on your desktop/laptop with notepad. Not the best reading experience for me. I prefer the chapters and formatting.

Edlin,

If you would like to post Palm Doc versions of the Gutenberg texts I do, that is cool. Just follow my posting format so that everyone knows what they are. If you have any questions let me know.

As for Palm Reader formats. No, it is not a standard, however, it is the preferred reader format of a large percentage of Palm users and some PPC users as far as I can see. I know iSilo and MobiPocket are very popular among eReaders also, and are available on even more platforms than Palm Reader.

I don't really think the spirit of Gutenberg press is violated by my work. It states that the original unaltered text should be available at request. It always is. I am merely reformatting it into a more "book like" format from a raw eText format. However, the original raw eText is always available. I am merely helping to spread their work to someone who otherwise would not read it because they want the nicely fomatted eBook. They just don't have the time/interest in putting in the work to a Palm Reader eBook. I would reference Gutenberg in the eText, but the licence says I must remove any mention of them if I alter the text (by my understanding).

[Edlin]

well Byrus seems to have decided to do prince & pauper all of a sudden, but I still take your request to see a palmdoc version.

Byrus... I dont see much point of repeating ebooks you are already doing. Also I would use a different posting format than you, ie having all books in one series under one thread.

I fail to see why you would compare tibr, deepreader, cspotrun, mobipocket etc etc as a notepad like expereince. Have you used anything besides Palm reader? And was it a long time ago?

I really don`t want to get into a pissing match about this. But read the small print. Be aware that the reason gutenberg dont do palmreader format isnt because they cant be bothered.

[Wollombi]

Sheez, Edlin. I feel you and all, but maybe you should take a break in your "Happy Place"? =)

[PDH LA]

I agree with Wollombi - edlin should chill.

It really irritates me to see people like bryus - who spend their own time doing "free" work that we can all benefit from - get criticized over something as stupid as which format they did their work in.

The Palmreader is free and anyone who wants to take advantage of byrus' work can, at no cost. So what's the problem?

I appreciate the books that byrus is formatting in the Palmreader format. This has become my sole book reader and a I do prefer the nicely formatted version of a book in Palmreader format over that of the Palmdoc format.

If you don't like the Palmreader format, fine. Just don't download the books that byrus is converting and you'll be fine.

[vegheadjones]

I agree with Wollombi - edlin should chill.

I agree wholeheartedly. Many e-book readers are great, but why have more than one on yourPDA? Plamreader works well, and yes, it does have exclusive content.

Bryus' books look great, I am very happy to have them.

[Wollombi]

Hey now, I was trying to defuse the situation, not polarize it. :)