1src Forums - Former Clie users - do You miss the JogDial?

View Full Version : Former Clie users - do You miss the JogDial?

boomer

10-12-2003, 03:37 PM

The T3 looks quite interesting - but it is missing one critical feature for me - the JogDial. I really love the JogDial on my NX70 [as I did on the other Clie's I've owned and used].

How have the new T3 owners who switched from Clie's adapted to life without a JogDial? Can you still read an ebook with one hand? How you you hold the T3 to quickly scroll through lists?

Thanks!!

tanker_bob

10-12-2003, 05:31 PM

I like the Palm 5-way Navigator better than the JogDial. I owned a Clie of one sort or another for several years and never got used to the JogDial. The Navigator works great and has functionality beyond a JogDial.

keelinlee

10-12-2003, 06:04 PM

Agreed with Tanker Bob :) I likes the 5 way navigator than Jog Dial

PDH LA

10-12-2003, 07:42 PM

I prefer the 5-way navigator to the jog dial. I especially like the way Palm implemented such that I can navigate quickly and with one hand to retrieve data from the core Palm apps.

dgantony

10-12-2003, 07:45 PM

The functionality I think I would miss most is the "Back" button more than the jog dial. How are you guys handling the absence of the "Back" button?

JwY

10-12-2003, 08:13 PM

i also feel that i'd miss the back button

Vidge

10-12-2003, 08:23 PM

I almost never used the back button on my NR70V (remapped it to take screen shots - that's how often I used it :P). I really don't miss the jog dial at all. The navigator works well for me.

Rokiteer

10-12-2003, 11:13 PM

I almost never use the back button, either. Most times, I can jump directly to any application or the launcher with one of numerous methods.

Inside various applications, I'm sure the back button would be more useful, if I were to begin applying it, but once I switch to the T|T3, I won't have it, so why bother?

As for the jogdial, I won't miss it much at all. On my SJ30, using it in a couple primary apps was like playing Russian Roulette--every so often the SJ30 would freeze up and require a soft reset.

dbytes

10-13-2003, 01:04 AM

Never used the back button, but I thought I missed the Jog Dial. I feel like a noob! I didn't even think of using the 5-way Navigator in a few apps! :o I do like it better than the Jog Dial now that I use it.

KenSong

10-13-2003, 03:15 AM

I used to use the Jog Dial a lot and thought that would be the one thing I'll miss from my NZ90 (not to mention the dual card slot) but I have to agree, the 5-way Navigator is 5-way better ;-P

cbulock

10-13-2003, 03:20 AM

Soneone has to have used the back button! :)
Anyone who has used the back button, how have you adjusted??

boomer

10-13-2003, 08:24 AM

... Back to my original question about ebook reading and one-handed use:
- how do you do it?
- how well does it work?

I find it isn't just that there is a JogDial, it's that it's on the side where I have a finger or thumb already holding the Clie. All I need to do to 'turn a page' is to move my finger, and not change how I hold it. I have the same concern about the new TJ series as well.

Thanks

BTW - I've hardly ever used the back button. I forget it's even there!!

LanMan

10-13-2003, 09:11 AM

I have to agree with Boomer that I think that the jog dial position on Clie's (TJ excluded) makes for a firmer grasp on the PDA. Whereas the thumb-forward position on the 5-way/TJ units would present a weaker hold. Opinions.

Plus, I use my back button ALL the time, and believe that I would sorely miss it. (T415 owner, but thinking of jumping to T3).

keelinlee

10-13-2003, 09:13 AM

LanMan

10-13-2003, 09:16 AM

I have to admit though, that the up/down buttons on my T415 are completely useless. However, I have never really missed them because of the jog dial.

LanMan

10-13-2003, 09:26 AM

Are there any other features that Clie owners (especially NX owners) miss now that they have migrated to the Palm line?

For example, I use MSImport all the time because it's so much faster than trying to sync things to card. Does Palm offer a similar utility, or is the sync on a T3 so fast that it doesn't really matter?

dannywsu

10-13-2003, 09:50 AM

LanMan,

Try Card Export here: http://www.softick.com/

It works great, just like MSImport!

y_g

10-13-2003, 09:58 AM

I find it odd that palm have not yet adopted the jog-dial mechanism which by far surseeds any other means of navigating through SW and applications but hey, we have something to wait for in future models.

yoopermjm

10-13-2003, 10:11 AM

Going from an nx70 to the t3, I did miss the jog dial and the back button and msimport. After a week I've forgotten about the jog dial and the center button on the 5 way held in brings me back to home, where I like the palm launcher so much I have not even installed zlauncher. I bought zlauncher because I hated that blasted clie launcher so much. None of what I miss comes close to making me long to go back. I love the t3, especially the great footprint!

broth

10-13-2003, 10:21 AM

LanMan

10-13-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by yoopermjm
Going from an nx70 to the t3, I did miss the jog dial and the back button and msimport. After a week I've forgotten about the jog dial and the center button on the 5 way held in brings me back to home, where I like the palm launcher so much I have not even installed zlauncher. I bought zlauncher because I hated that blasted clie launcher so much. None of what I miss comes close to making me long to go back. I love the t3, especially the great footprint!

yoopermjm, do you find that you miss the camer/movie recorder, and the CF slot from the NX70? Plus, I had the 70 for about a week before returning it, and was making good use of the capture button to launch McPhling. I am trying to determine how I would set up the T3 without the jog/back/capture buttons.

yoopermjm

10-13-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by LanMan
yoopermjm, do you find that you miss the camer/movie recorder, and the CF slot from the NX70? Plus, I had the 70 for about a week before returning it, and was making good use of the capture button to launch McPhling. I am trying to determine how I would set up the T3 without the jog/back/capture buttons.

I don't miss the camera or movie recorder as I rarely used them and was unimpressed by their quality when I did.

On the t3 you can remap the voice recorder button (it's kind of in the same place as the nx70's camera button) as well, which I might do as I don't seem to use the voice recorder much, but I might use it more as you can tie it to a datebook alarm, which is kind of handy. I didn't use the cf slot, I just bought memory sticks. I've ordered a sd card (256mb pny DON'T order a sandisk!) which will come tomorrow. The T3 is really an awesome pda. My fifth one, and far and away the best I've ever had. Personally, I'm not even buying a case for it, as the flap seems to protect it just fine. I always had my nx70 hanging on my belt and this little jewel just goes in my back pocket with no problem.

Rokiteer

10-13-2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by yoopermjm
....and this little jewel just goes in my back pocket with no problem.

You like to live dangerously, yooper! My back pockets get two things: my wallet, and my hanky. And not much else. AND never my Clie.

But I agree that the flip cover is simple, light, thin, and does a good job. After using all the other covers/cases I have had before, I'm glad they've put a flip cover like my Clie's on the T3.

yoopermjm

10-13-2003, 09:24 PM

I know it seems dangerous, but the footprint is so awesome that I can't bear to enlarge it with a hardcase. I'm also not sure exactly how those hardcases work so, I'm out there in dangerland.

mar_ning_2000

10-14-2003, 01:04 PM

I wish I could have both the Jog-Dial and 5-Ways.

dgoeg

10-14-2003, 03:02 PM

I definitely would like both.
With a 5-way navigator you have more possibilities, sure, but there are two issues:

1. I miss the "clie-back button"-functionality (e.g. long press to access menus)

2. It is a more natural way to hold your pda like "sony-style", i.e. with your thumb resting on the jog-dial position. Just try to hand it to a child and you will see. :D
Have you ever tried to read an ebook for a longer period? It's not ergonomic to "bend your thumb down" the whole time.

rldunn

10-14-2003, 03:33 PM

My wife moved from a Clie to a Z71 a few months ago, and I thought she would NEVER miss the jog dial, since I never saw her using it. Even for ebooks, it seems liked she was always using the Page Up/Down buttons, so I thought the joystick on the Z71 would be perfect for her. But she just admitted the other day that she really misses the jog dial and used it more than she thought. I would love to see a handheld with both.

edeab220

10-14-2003, 06:29 PM

I like the 5-way but the back button is what I miss. Although I can get back to the Palm Launcher by pressing the middle of the 5-way for like 3 seconds...I miss the other feature of the back button...as everyone else said :)

cyco

10-24-2003, 01:22 AM

The thing I miss about clies is only the way I can handle it with my left hand, letting my thumbs do the navigation with the jog dial

The 5 way nav is ok, once I get used to it, but clies are not going the way I want my pdas now, so I'm happy with my T3, at least until sony comes up with something that can blow T3 away (which will be a tough job since I LOVE my T3)

So, IMHO, for comfort, jog dial wins, for usefulness, 5WayNav is still ahead

that's just my opinion though :D

n2ifp

10-24-2003, 08:06 AM

I can't really say that I have missed it too much. I usually hold the T3 in my left hand and mash down on the 5-way with my right thumb. The select button has worked as a back button when I hold it depressed, then when I am in ZLauncher and hold the select button(a second or so) then it powers down(shuts off). I have the long button depress assigned in ZL for the select.

Stefan Knochenhauer

10-24-2003, 10:12 AM

When I got my T3 and played with it I didn't miss the jog dial. Then I read this thread for the first time and was about to post a "never gonna miss that jog dial" kind of reply. But the other day I caught myself a couple of times trying to use the jog dial in apps such as contacts, AvantGo, DocsToGo, and Adobe Reader. So, yeah, I guess I will miss it a little bit. What I don't miss is the back button, cause that I never used :-)

twinsdad

10-24-2003, 10:55 AM

I don't miss the jog dial but I do wish I could find a way to make the directional pad scroll cell by cell in docs to go rather than page up page down. I use spreadsheets a lot and this is very annoying to me.

things I miss about my nx80 are:

clie rmc- I have 3 kids under 4 so my remote is getting lost all the time, so I ended using clie quite a bit
audio player--I know it had limited features but it has good sound and real one player does not. I had to break down and buy pocket tunes
MSbackup--it worked great and it was free. Now I have to buy one and hope it works on the T3
dual expansion-- I loved keeping all my mp3's on a big cf card and using my ms sticks for programs, backups, etc.
back button-- I reach for this all the time and it isn't there.

My feelings are more mixed on the t3 then most cliesource people. I love the display, the form factor, the 52 megs of ram, lisence for docstogo6, but there are issues.

Poor mp3 playback
an sd slot that may fry your card
an annoyingly hard to push power button
mediocre battery life
no backup program included (big gripe)
no remote (it should have it at this price)

I think former clie members are giving Palm a free pass here. If Sony released a unit with this kind of battery life or a unit that was frying ms sticks they would be roasting Sony over an open pit. But Palm sreems to be getting a lot of leniency here. Just my two cents.

Good device, but not a great device.

Thanks,
Don

jay

10-25-2003, 04:29 AM

I switched to Sony years ago, went through a few models and returned to Palm for the Tungsten C.

I was petrified of missing the back button. I used it heaps! :D

SO, firstly, most apps that implement the nav button, use a 'left' press to cancel selection or go back, or many things very similar to the Clie back button.

Secondly, using software called OKey, which keyboard Clie owners are probably familiar with, you can use the nav wheel much like the way JogAssist works. You can navigate buttons and other interface widgets, and also jump up to the menu.

In summation, the possible functionality of the nav button is beyond the jog wheel:

Jog Wheel (4 options):
Up
Down
Push
Back button

5-Way Navigator (names says it all ;))
Up
Down
Left
Right
Center

BUT.... the positioning of the jog wheel is better. I'm was never afraid of dropping my PDA. :D

n0m0n

10-25-2003, 08:17 AM

I personally don't miss the JogDial, or the back button, but it would be nice if there was additional dials, buttons, etc. that we could re-mapped for always used, or needed everyday apps.
More options, as long as it is visually appealing is always a god thing.
I have a little hack called HBX that allows me to map the hard buttons up to 4 app's each.
It also offers me an option that lets me map the up, down, and center buttons on the 5 - way navigator, which is a nice option to have.
Haven't figured out how to map the left or right as of yet but I am looking for a way.

MonkeyK

10-25-2003, 11:36 AM

I miss the JogDial. It was sweet. When I read ebooks, page turning was right where my thumb was anyway. Now I hold the PDA at the bottom, or I rotate it 90 degrees and it feels heavier.

JwY

10-25-2003, 11:53 AM

i just miss the back button

BasilC

10-25-2003, 06:40 PM

I missed the jog dial for a couple of days, but the 5-way pad is actually more comfortable on the fingers.

But I still miss the back button!

The nice thing about the jog dial and back button was that there was triple functionality
I use a iSilo a lot. With my clie I used the back button to start autoscroll, the jog wheel to change the speed and pressing the jog wheel to go back.

In iSilo on the T3, I use the centre button to start autoscroll, the up and down buttons to change the speed and the left button to go back.

To go back between applications I use McPhling. I've set the Find silk button to list the apps and the voice memo button to toggle back.

PDA247

02-18-2004, 06:43 PM

Give me a way to map the voice record button to do a pagedown function and I can live without a jog dial:)

jbarr

02-18-2004, 10:55 PM

My company bans PDA's and phones with cameras, so I had to replace my trusty NX70V. I REALLY want a UX-50, but it has a camera, and Sony doesn't offer a model without the camera.

Anyway, I purchased a T3, and so far, I really like it. I am getting used to the 5-way nav pad, but I admit that I miss the scroller. It just seemd to be "smoother". For example, when I zoom in Mapopolis with the scroller, it's smooth and clean. Mapopolis uses the "Calendar" and "Contacts" buttons on the T3 to zoom, and it seems more like it is "stepping" through different zoom levels than on my NX70V (which was smooth.)

I find the 5-way very useful (for apps that take full advantage of it), but when I hold my T3 to use it in one hand, it seems awkward to me. Gripping my NX70V to scroll the wheel, I felt like I had more control in holding it. I always feel like I'm going to drop my T3 all the time. Maybe it's just me...

As far as the Back button, yes, I definitely miss it. I CONSTANTLY find myself hitting the Voice Recorder button out of habit--what a pain. To fix that though, I re-assigned the Voice Recorder button to pop up ZLauncher's QuickLauncher+ menu. It works like a charm.

My ultimate would be to have the 5-way nav pad, a scroller, and a Back button.

crh3f

02-19-2004, 07:10 AM

Never used the back button for anything...so don't miss it. I missed the jog dial at first, but have gotten very used to the 5-way. I'm surprised nobody's said this, but you can do comfortable left-hand use with it...just put in in landscape mode, and hold it that way. Mine's almost never in vertical mode.

crh3f

02-19-2004, 07:11 AM

oh yeah, and as for the power button being too small...I've set mine so that sliding it open turns it on, and closed turns it off. Almost never use the power button.

BShrum

02-19-2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Boomer
... Back to my original question about ebook reading and one-handed use:
- how do you do it?
- how well does it work?

I find it isn't just that there is a JogDial, it's that it's on the side where I have a finger or thumb already holding the Clie. All I need to do to 'turn a page' is to move my finger, and not change how I hold it. I have the same concern about the new TJ series as well.

Thanks

BTW - I've hardly ever used the back button. I forget it's even there!!

Boomer et al.

As you may recall, I reviewed my thought process as it evolved from using the Sony Clies to my purchase of the T3. The reviews are in the review section of PDA24/7.

Like you, I was very concerned about losing the jog dial and the back button, particularly with regard to reading books on my unit. I had used both the NR70 and, before that, the 710c Sony units with great delight. I also liked the feel of the jog dial for turning pages. It just felt like a natural process, and the grip felt very firm.

Compared to this, at least at first blush, I felt that the 5-way navigator would not give me the same satisfaction. I've used the T3 now since Christmas and have read through about 6 books on the unit in that time. I have to say that I agree with others here. I am amazed at how useful the 5-way navigator really is. I truly did not think I would ever like it better.

When reading books, it is very natural to hold the unit vertically and turn the pages with the down click (6 o'clock position). The T3 unit is much lighter than my Sony units and, therefore, easier to hold. However, I will say that the method I normally use for reading is by using the automatic scrolling feature (this is in PalmReader Pro). And, again, much to my amazement, I find that I do this most often in 320x320 mode, as it allows me to speed read by keeping my eyes on the last line next to the bezel! The scroll speed can be adjusted by toggling the navigator up or down. That method works very well.

I also sometime lie in bed at night and read. Sometimes I rotate the screen to landscape and hold it that way, either using the automatic scroll or again, using the navigator to turn the pages at leasure. That method of holding the unit also feels very natural.

I never thought I could be won over from the jog dial, but the functionality is, if not better as the other posts have opined, at LEAST the same.

As for the back button, I truly have not missed it at all. Again, thought I would. I recall using it some on the Sony Clies, particularly for going back to the ZLauncher from a program, or going back through a series of programs I had previously opened. There is a freeware program for the T3 called switch that allows the use to perform the later function via the command bar, and I have programmed the voice memo button to bring up my ZLauncher menu, which performs many of the same functions for which I used the back button.

I think you trepidation over giving up these features is justified, I truly believe you will find, as others have indicated, that the 5-way navigator is a great feature.

zipman

02-19-2004, 10:33 AM

For me the Palm 5-way Navigator takes the place of the JogDial. As for the 'BackButton' I use the 'home' application icon. Just push and hold the 'home' application icon and you get a menu that pops up displaying the 6 applications you have access in the order of accessing them.

Another thing I use instead of the 'on' button to get at my 'Launcher' is the center button on the 5-way Navigator. By pushing it and holding it down the Palm will turn on 'displaying the clock first' and then turning the Palm totally on to what ever Launcher you are using.

I do not miss any of the extra buttons my T665 had.