UX40 Honeymoon is over?

[Cikub]

I’ve had my UX40 for about a month now, and am having second thoughts. I’ve gotten used to the neat capabilities of the UX, so now the problems are starting to take up more mind share. Anyone else gone through this? I’m not trolling. I don’t expect PDAs to be perfect and I don’t usually keep them for more than a year. I’ve just sharing some thoughts to see if anyone else went through the same thing and either kept their UX and forgot the hassles, or traded in the UX and are happier with a TH55 or Tungsten T3 (for example). I’m concerned that my UX40…

1. …is too big. I’ve been carrying my PDAs on my belt for years now. Instant access to my PDA is of primary importance to me. If it’s a hassle to get it out, then I’ll often procrastinate writing down that thought, recording that appointment, or entering that receipt. And that defeats the whole purpose of having a PDA. I end up with pockets full of scraps of paper and receipts and a brain that is nagging me over things I was supposed to remember but can’t. Since the UX doesn’t fit any standard belt-clip cases, I’ll have to special order a bulky, expensive pouch from somewhere. As it is, the paint is starting to rub off my device just from being in my pocket.

2. …flip screen is a bit of pain. Consistent with my complaint above, having to pull out the UX, examine how I’m holding it so I can turn it around the right way, then flip open the lid, the turn it on, then navigate to my app on screen or press a multiple key combination to launch an app (aside from the basic three). Again, it’s about having to run through a little obstacle course. A regular PDA form factor would typically mean grab, pull stylus, press button(s). (With a standard button layout I can use a button multiplier utility to instantly access a multitude of apps, but on the UX, the missing “4th” button and lack of regular up/down buttons severely limits that capability).

3. …screen is too small. I think I like the constant landscape orientation, but it’s so dang small. When I’ve got a spreadsheet up, I find that I can’t really use the small fonts to view more on the screen unless I’m holding it up to my face (and my eyesight is quite good).

4. …battery life is really poor. I must recharge my UX40 every single night. And if I am doing something special, like web-browsing with an IR modem (I’m waiting for Verizon to finally release a bluetooth phone), I have to have it plugged into a wall. I just hate having to monitor how much I’m using my PDA all day long because I’m concerned that I’m going to be dead in the water before the day is over. And, as I mentioned above, anything that makes me hesitate about getting my PDA out of my pocket is bad. I know there is an extended battery, but it is expensive and would make problem #1 above even worse. And to make things even worse yet, the buttons on the UX are positioned so that just carrying it in my pocket can turn it on and run the battery down. Many times, I’ve pulled it out and wondered why the camera was on.

Has anyone had the same thoughts after you had yours for a few weeks? What did or didn’t change your mind? Or did you actually solve the issues somehow?

C

[A1CPete]

Sounds to me like you'd be happier with a TH. I had a UX50 for a while, I was really really insanely excited about it when it was announced then when I got it, it was cool, it was definatly everything I hoped it would be, but for what it was suppose to be it seemed to be lackign. The UX40/50 is a good first gen thing, its like "ok now we know what's needed, lets make it better." I'll probably swap up when they realease the updated version hopefully with a bigger screen, better battery life, and all those other nasty bugs removed. In the mean while I highly highly recommend the TH, it's bloody amazing.

[FIA WRC]

You should really look into a TH. If you value battery life don't bother with the T3. The only bad thing with the TH that I don't like is no landscape for NetFront.

[Dougf]

1. …is too big.

I'll tell ya what, I have had mine for about a month, and the honeymoon is fine. There is a case that I purchased that is solid and not too big, and offers a great belt clip when I don't have the pocket space. The CA23. Look it up, it's only $29.99. Normally I keep it in either my suit, pants, jacket, or shirt pockets, I use the case when I need to store it safely. I don't store it in the same pocket as sharp objects, and I have no scratches or paint issues.

2. …flip screen is a bit of pain.

Pretty much any PDA you get now need to flip open, I rarely use mine in tablet mode. I looooove the keyboard. I initially thought the Treo 90 was the perfect PDA, small, had a cover, good keyboard, but no power, and very slow. I thought TG was a good replacement, but the keyboard on that one sucked. NX80 was nice, but you talk about bulk? And the keyboard sucked. This has the keyboard, the full screen, AND the power. I put my main apps on the 3 buttons, and pressing the 1 extra command to get to my other favorites is not a big enough deal for me not to open my UX and use it when needed.

3. …screen is too small.

Try the ones I mentioned earlier, Treo and TG, 320 X 320 too small as you mentioned. NX had a great screen, but you didn't have the landscape layout for best viewing, and again....the keyboard sucked, and it was too bulky. Just view it with the fonts larger I guess.

4. …battery life is really poor.

As far as the battery, the extended is only $89.99 now. If you are going through the motions with the IR, either turn IR off when you are done, or just use it with the Extended battery if needed. Usually when I used to do the IR thing, I made sure I was sitting down and had a few extra minutes. The few extra seconds it takes to turn the IR off isn't that big a deal. The few extra bucks for the Extended battery is definitely worth it.

I guess the bottom line is you sound like a Keyboard PDA user. This is the best screen available with a decent keyboard. Without the keyboard I found with constant corrections, I wasn't using my Palm units nearly as often as I use this one. As far as battery, in a regular day, I don't lose much battery when I am using my PIM's, heavy WiFi does kill it though, and thats why it was worth it to grab the Extended battery. As I always say, ultimately, the decision is up to you......but you will sorely miss your UX should you decide to get rid of it, and with the stores selling out, I would definitely recommend you keep it as you try out a graffiti only PDA, see how much you miss the keyboard, and you can make a well researched decision without buyers remorse. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

[madmaxmedia]

If you are a keyboard user, then the TH55 may not satisfy you anyway. I have a TG50, and am waiting for the next Sony keyboard model, probably in the next month or so...

[benixau]

Hey I went like so

Zire Basic - got doggy chewed
T3 - good. But average battery life (onger then my UX40 though) but it ended up WSoDing me so it went back
HP 4350 - never ever ever ever ever again
NX80 - very nice. I liked this one but it was sooooo big and the point of the flip is to use the KB - it becomes too big and unwieldy like that
UX40 - yum, very compact, excellent KB, nice amount of RAM, only complaints are already known (screen whine + battery life).

Keep the UX - if you go to a TH you will loose the KB (duh!) and you will have to take three trys to get a letter (G2 remember).

[conflagrare]

Originally posted by Cikub
1. ?is too big.

2. ?flip screen is a bit of pain.

3. ?screen is too small.

4. ?battery life is really poor.


Try the Tungsten C?

[madmaxmedia]

Hey benixau,

Sorry to go OT, but what was your experience with the 4350? I've speculated about going with one, but never seriously (I used to own a Jornada 568 and simply prefer Palm OS.) But I wondered if PPC had improved in the meantime. I never wondered enough to seriously consider switching though.

Also, is the UX40 battery life WORSE than the T3? Oey, that's not good. I mean you can live with it, but it's still not good.

[swampcat]

I prefer any Palm over PPC anyday - never, ever again use the PPC!

[benixau]

The PPC is good - sometimes superior to palm - until you need to restore.
-The palm requires the userID (hotsync ID) to be the same to allow a restore.
-The PPC needs - Activesync ID + time + date + regional settings + date zone + device - to be the same before it will consider allowing you to resotre. Even then its a matter of luck.
PPC is fast-ish (under WM2003). Hotsync may be slower than activesync BUT at least it works every time (unless there is a real error).

The 4350 is pretty much the best PPC i have seen to date for all-in-one functionaliity, but even with its dual wireless that can be active at the same time, I dont think it can hold a candle to the palm let alone a clie.

Do NOT go to PPC unless you need, and I mean need Cisco LEAP support.

UX40 has a worse battery life than the T3 (cant get through the day with BT on, T3 could). BUT - I dont see a mini-KB on the T3 / I dont see non-volitile backup RAM on a T3 / I dont see a non-volitile internal media card allowing you to use MP3s etc out of the box / I dont see a slot with supported 2GB cards on it (SD only goes to 1GB right now, always half of MS Pro).

BTW - the T3 has a whiny screen too. Not as bad as a UX sometimes but both whine. They are both sony screens.

The only things a T3 has on the UX40 IMHO, is stylus, processor and five-way navigator.

My next device will hopefully be a clie but I am willing to got to a hires, BT, GSM Treo.

Hope this helps. - I love my clie.

[40-Tactical]

The UX is actually smaller then the T3 and Th55.

[Cyker]

Only if you don't take thickness into account :)

The main thing I disliked about the UX was the screen. It's just too darn small, and I'm not talking pixels here, I'm talking physical size.

The keyboard is nice, 'tho not upto the Psion Series 5 standards.

Right now I'd say the TH55 is superior in every aspect UNLESS you need the UX keyboard.

[sdkat2]

Originally posted by benixau

Keep the UX - if you go to a TH you will loose the KB (duh!) and you will have to take three trys to get a letter (G2 remember).

I've gotten used to Decuma and I can write on the TH55 almost as fast as I can print on paper and faster than I could using any other Clie's built in keyboard.

[Mark]

Hey,

I just wanted to say that I've had the HP 4355 for a couple of weeks now (switched from a UX50 for similar reasons as above), and my whole opinion of PPC has changed. I once had a 3800 series back in the day, and I swore off PPC after that device. The 4350 is fast, has not required a single reboot (except with some software installs), and is easy to carry around (about the size of a TG50, but lighter). As for the issues that the original poster presented:
1) There are multiple cases available that fit the 4350 and can be worn on a belt. Sena, EB, Proporta-all nice examples.
2) No flip screen. To make the Today screen more functional, I have found several today screen plugins that are often free and blow away any PalmOS launcher-Journal Bar, calendar plus, clauncher, etc. If you guys like appshelf, you should see my Today screen.
3) The small screen on the UX drove me crazy. The screen on the 4350 is smaller than some other PPC's, but it is still bigger than the UX. Here's the problem with the UX's screen. On most programs, there is a menu bar at the top, and often a bar at the bottom. The UX is landscape, so the top and bottom bars take up more screen space than they would if they were in portrait mode. NOT TO MENTION the fact that the UX has a third menu bar on the side to hide graffiti, etc. So much screen space is wasted on the UX. Even though the 4350 is lower res, it is nicer IMO because I can fill more of the screen space with web pages, text, etc.
4) Battery life on the 4350 is phenomenal. I can surf several hours with it and still have lots of battery left. I haven't timed my net use, but I KNOW that I'm getting more battery life than I did with my UX.

So, consider the 4350. It's a great device, and it may change the way you feel about PPCs. I have yet to have a crash like the guy did above, so I can't comment on restoring from a backup. My UX will definitely be sold.

Mark

[benixau]

To be honest the 4350 is an excellent device. The problem is PocketPC. I liked the 4350 bar its size (it is the biggest portrait PDA available - even bigger than an NX80 but thinner). Its battery is excellent (1560mAh) and you can buy a whopping 3600mAh extended battery for it.

However - PPC is the problem - there is always a bar at the top and bottom. AND, most programs add a control bar of their own to the bottom as well. on a screen thats only as tall as the UXs (PPC = W:240xT:320 UX = W:480xT:320) in pixels the control bars comment by mark is viod. The screens are exactly the same pixel height so the space used by control bars is pretty much equal.

[Dougf]

First of all, regarding the TT3, UX50's battery in my experience is better then the TT3. Whether it be bluetooth, or simple PIM Use, I saw significant battery drain on the TT3 over the UX50. Thats not saying UX50 battery life is phenominal, but it is saying it is better then TT3. Example, on one full day with the TT3 with no use of the bluetooth only PIM and it would be at 83% battery at the end of the day, if I didn't charge it, before the end of the day the next day it would go down to 25% and shut down completely. With no wireless, my UX has gone a week with no charge, and this is only using PIM functions. If I use Wireless I charge, or slap on the extended battery.

As far as PPC, Palm had come so far with OS5 that PPC is not superior any longer to Palm. PPC remains unstable. I am not a Windows basher, I believe the desktop stuff remains Windows strong point...not on a device like this. My hotynch operation by the way is quick and painless not even 10 seconds anymore. And import/export is Sony's answer to activesynch.

The big thing Palm beats PPC with is memory. You get SOOO much bang for your buck with just 64Megs on a Palm then you do with PPC, and nobody that owns a PPC can say different. you really do have to watch what you load into a PPC device. I personally have not seen a problem with the UX screen. The landscape stretches it out far enough where I can see my info just fine. Just switch to a larger font if it is that big a deal. My last experience with the PPC was the 1900, the color was great, the size was aweome. There was no wireless, and by 12:00 I was down to 83% just viewing and adding appts. I was down to 50% by the end of the night. I wasn't too happy with that. Then I had a problem with the memory, filled up quick, and when I deleted files from it, the software writer kept something in my unit that I couldnt completely delete the program without a hard reset. And then the crashes began, after 3 weeks, that puppy was gone, and back to Palm I went, and stayed. Thats my story, I may had been doing something wrong, but so far I have had nothing but great experience with my UX50.

[benixau]

Amen - once a PPC crashes and needs a hard reset and a restore it is normally the beginning of the end. My UX OTOH - hard reset, no problems - just restore from the built-in backup memory. Which PPC has that??????

[Mark]

Originally posted by benixau
on a screen thats only as tall as the UXs (PPC = W:240xT:320 UX = W:480xT:320) in pixels the control bars comment by mark is viod. The screens are exactly the same pixel height so the space used by control bars is pretty much equal.

Hey, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but I don't think you are getting my point. All I was saying is that there is too much wasted screen space on the UX, especially since the screen is so small to begin with. The control bars fill up three sides, two of which are in the longest dimensions on the screen (top and bottom of the UX). I'm just saying it's alot of screen room that could be used for software.

Take net surfing for example. Both pocket IE and Netfront use bars on top and bottom. As you said, Pocket IE uses a third bar added under the top for the URL (don't know if I can turn this off, I haven't tried it yet). The actual space for seeing the page is 4.125 sq in on the PPC vs. 3.594 sq in on the UX. That's alot if you ask me.

I won't get into an argument about pixels. I love the way pics look in hi-res, but on the UX, text just gets too small for me. The big screen on the PPC makes text easy to read at an arm's length.

I will look into recovery software for the ppc. But as I said before, this 4350 is much more stable than my prior 3800 device. Again, no soft reset required yet! Come to think of it, how many numerous times did I have to reset my POS5 device?!?

To each his own, but I don't think you guys should ignore PPC because of its history. Especially since PPC sales equaled POS sales during the last quarter...

Mark

[benixau]

I didn't ignore the 4350 due to PPCs history. I had a 4350 and it caused me no end of problems. The reality is that PPC can never be as stable as POS5. Why? Cause it is windows. If you leave your PPC running and open and close (fully, not just smart-minimise) programs you can watch the amount of program RAM slowly decrease. It cant get it right because its always waiting for the app tore-open. This can only be fixed with a soft-reset.

[ClieKun]

ben are you using the wifi stick yet?

[benixau]

lol - no. Not in Oz. The WiFi stick looks interesting but I am going to wait until it drops in price. I think that when another one comes out then I will.

I also have to buy an airport card for my mac which will set me back another AU$145.
It's going to get expensive.

[ClieKun]

the wifi sticks in japan cost 15,500 yen. I saw a lot of them in the shops here.

[Spiral]

Originally posted by Dougf

As far as PPC, Palm had come so far with OS5 that PPC is not superior any longer to Palm. PPC remains unstable. I am not a Windows basher, I believe the desktop stuff remains Windows strong point...not on a device like this. My hotynch operation by the way is quick and painless not even 10 seconds anymore. And import/export is Sony's answer to activesynch.

Hotsync was good, if you kept it very simple, once you added a few conduits, ugh, it quickly got to be quite a nuisance. Activesync is less reliable (at startup of syncing, conflicts sometimes have to be resolved by hand), but I've never forgotten to sync, because it really is active. At first, after switching to PPC a while I prefered MS Import over Activesync's device explorer, because device explorer doesn't allow cut+paste. However, I found that files/folder could do the same quite conveniently (i use it to install stuff).

Originally posted by Dougf

The big thing Palm beats PPC with is memory. You get SOOO much bang for your buck with just 64Megs on a Palm then you do with PPC, and nobody that owns a PPC can say different. you really do have to watch what you load into a PPC device. I personally have not seen a problem with the UX screen. The landscape stretches it out far enough where I can see my info just fine. Just switch to a larger font if it is that big a deal.

I agree mostly. 16 Megabytes of a Palm use to be able to take you pretty close in terms of program storage to a 64 megabyte pocket pc. However...as recent large programs such as Snails, Daedalus 3D, while it's no problem to run on a ppc (there is a port of yeti3d engine), you see UX users hard-reseting just to try it out. Of course media takes the same amount of space on both. However, I heard a new approach microsoft is taking is to use flash-rom as main memory, and have ram only for program execution, which would allow ppc's to raise stand-by time.

Originally posted by Dougf

My last experience with the PPC was the 1900, the color was great, the size was aweome. There was no wireless, and by 12:00 I was down to 83% just viewing and adding appts. I was down to 50% by the end of the night. I wasn't too happy with that. Then I had a problem with the memory, filled up quick, and when I deleted files from it, the software writer kept something in my unit that I couldnt completely delete the program without a hard reset.
You should keep in mind the 1900 was very low-end when it was released, slow with 200 mhz pxa250. It's no surprise the 1900 ranks lower in many areas than a unit that was released nearly a year after and for double the price. wm2003 has made advances in stability too.

Originally posted by benixau
Amen - once a PPC crashes and needs a hard reset and a restore it is normally the beginning of the end. My UX OTOH - hard reset, no problems - just restore from the built-in backup memory. Which PPC has that??????
When it needs a hard reset...I have to say, I've never had a hard reset from regular program usage, whether a beta program, program incompatible with chinese ppc, or programs that require a lot of memory or use fairly low level programming (arm assembly). The only times I've had to hard reset is from overclocking. Your UX still depends on having a backup, and a fairly recent one. Activesync backups my ram everytime I activesync. But since I wiped everything clean to install the rom patch (more common on ppc than palm and doesn't waste precious ram), I haven't had a hard reset for 5 months (december to now). PPC also has programs to create backups quite easily, and can be scheduled, and packed in executable files to restore, all the ipaqs have it built-in. My ppc (Asus) has a slightly different version that also compresses backup (how many palm backups compress files? last time i checked it was 0, perhaps it has changed). And only the UX series has built-in rom for backups, the rest of palms rely on memory cards (depending on ppc, if you have enough rom, you can put your backup on card or internal rom, e800, Asus A620Bt have 32 megabytes, others I have forgotten). Pocket PC backup IS more unwieldly than palm, where you can (nearly) just copy a bunch of files back and it'll work. But it's not start all over from scratch.

On the other hand, after repeated restorations/hard resets (reset stalls), my NR on old restores is as crash-happy as can be. Run 5 random programs, and you'll probably get at least one crash. So palm backup is very good, but obviously some things got screwed up somewhere.

[benixau]

Actually, hotsync backs-up everything. Its just that I don't have to sync my device to recover it. Good for when your on the road.

I know about iPaq File-Store. BUT - it isn't as automated or complete as my clie's. MY device went into a hard reset spin. Three times a day for a week before i returned it. I was lucky if i could restore from activesync.

Oh - i forgot - PPC still has a registry. If you've ever used a mac AND a pc for any real length of time - its a big no no for a handheld.

I only hard reset my device (UX) recently because I was hacking the preferences to try and get something to work (with no guide or anything, just guessing and it wouldn't boot without an error - np, hard reset, clie asks if i want to restore and BANG - 15secs later im in Zlauncher ready to go again.

No doubt, WM2003 is a BIG improvement over PPC<=WM2002. BUT, it has a long way to go before its as logically simple to a new user as POS is.

[Spiral]

Originally posted by benixau
Actually, hotsync backs-up everything. Its just that I don't have to sync my device to recover it. Good for when your on the road.

As does activesync and pretty much every (quality) ppc backup program.

Originally posted by benixau

I know about iPaq File-Store. BUT - it isn't as automated or complete as my clie's.

I'd rate iPaq file store way way above clie's. While the UX (and ux only) can auto-backup to rom (in this respect, it a bit more complete). You won't find it convenient or very useable to store any data on any palm device on rom (usually via Jackflash), compared to Ipaq file store, which just appears as another folder to the OS (you can also automate by using the built-in ipaq backup). You can write to it and use it with all the advantages of a flash card, but with better speed. The clie's (and palm as a whole) rom is much more limited, with write/erase-only, only via Jackflash (if supported).

Originally posted by benixau
MY device went into a hard reset spin. Three times a day for a week before i returned it. I was lucky if i could restore from activesync.

My previous ipaq (3800) had this problem, but it was a second-hand. On the other hand, a friend has used a 3800 for 8 months without anything like what mine went through, and mine did it even without any programs installed and searches of various pocket pc forums and asking a few questions yielded no responses. So I assume it's an uncommon hardware problem.

Originally posted by benixau
Oh - i forgot - PPC still has a registry. If you've ever used a mac AND a pc for any real length of time - its a big no no for a handheld.

I agree it's a pain for program uninstallation. But if you ever want to change a value globally or mess with the system, you have way more power than palm, because all the hacks to change stuff is built-in to the OS. A non-power user would likely not even notice, because they don't install enough. For a power-user, it's a double edged sword: you can tweak with os easy, but does get messed up after a while. Btw, I thought macs didn't have a registry? And i thought the lack of registry had to do with the news article I read once on using an ipod to just copy the folder of MS Office for apple onto the hard drive and then walk out with it, because with just the folder, ms office installs itself. I am not a mac user though.

Originally posted by benixau

I only hard reset my device (UX) recently because I was hacking the preferences to try and get something to work (with no guide or anything, just guessing and it wouldn't boot without an error - np, hard reset, clie asks if i want to restore and BANG - 15secs later im in Zlauncher ready to go again.

Yes, on Palm i once did some stuff with filez, and system got really messed up. On PPC, i would overclock with the bus speed messed up, BANG, screen fades out, hard reset. Windows welcome screen, configure touch screen, run restore program (built-in), select backup (compressed on card), uncompresses to ram in less than a minute, and everything is back.

[ClieKun]

Originally posted by Spiral

As does activesync and pretty much every (quality) ppc backup program.


I'd rate iPaq file store way way above clie's. While the UX (and ux only) can auto-backup to rom (in this respect, it a bit more complete). You won't find it convenient or very useable to store any data on any palm device on rom (usually via Jackflash), compared to Ipaq file store, which just appears as another folder to the OS (you can also automate by using the built-in ipaq backup). You can write to it and use it with all the advantages of a flash card, but with better speed. The clie's (and palm as a whole) rom is much more limited, with write/erase-only, only via Jackflash (if supported).


My previous ipaq (3800) had this problem, but it was a second-hand. On the other hand, a friend has used a 3800 for 8 months without anything like what mine went through, and mine did it even without any programs installed and searches of various pocket pc forums and asking a few questions yielded no responses. So I assume it's an uncommon hardware problem.


I agree it's a pain for program uninstallation. But if you ever want to change a value globally or mess with the system, you have way more power than palm, because all the hacks to change stuff is built-in to the OS. A non-power user would likely not even notice, because they don't install enough. For a power-user, it's a double edged sword: you can tweak with os easy, but does get messed up after a while. Btw, I thought macs didn't have a registry? And i thought the lack of registry had to do with the news article I read once on using an ipod to just copy the folder of MS Office for apple onto the hard drive and then walk out with it, because with just the folder, ms office installs itself. I am not a mac user though.


Yes, on Palm i once did some stuff with filez, and system got really messed up. On PPC, i would overclock with the bus speed messed up, BANG, screen fades out, hard reset. Windows welcome screen, configure touch screen, run restore program (built-in), select backup (compressed on card), uncompresses to ram in less than a minute, and everything is back.
Why don`t you just come to light that some people just don`t like PPC.If they had the device hated it and then switched to palm why knock them!?

[Spiral]

Originally posted by ClieKun

Why don`t you just come to light that some people just don`t like PPC.

it's true that some people don't, but that doesn't mean that if I can't discuss an operating system with somebody and correct misconceptions. And if you check out http://www.pdai.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1233, you can see that i fully acknowledge both sides weaknesses and strengths.

Originally posted by ClieKun
If they had the device hated it and then switched to palm why knock them!?
Ok, you state very specificaly that "why knock them", so point me where I have "knocked" (I would this has a similar meaning to bash/flame) Benixau. Al contrario, I quite enjoy talking to him.

Btw, ClieKun, your sig states PPC and Palm can live together, but apparently not in the same forum? Separate but equal, just like the blacks following Plessey versus Ferguson?

edit: btw, is such a long quote neccessary? Such a waste of forum space for something already up. I always believed in some proportionality between quotes and my own writing. Usually favoring my own thoughts.

[benixau]

The File-Store on the 4350 is 3.2MB - enough for a backup of PIM data and not much else (for me at least with my contact/calendar size)

I was saying that macs don't and pc's do have a registry and that after suing a mac having a registry again is sooo annoying.. I can not stand the registry. Any of the decent settings are hidden in hex-named keys. On the mac, 9/10 are logically named and in XML files.
You're point about the power-user thing is interesting though. I guess as a power-user I never really thought about how a basic user interacts (hard to as I have always been a power user (who else can kill an early IBM HDD in 5 yrs (physical crash))).

Now, the UX can do that backup thing out of the box - the PPC cant. You need to buy an expansion card OR if you want it on your pc you have to have the program memory + RAM available.

One more thing - a UX has separate program memory. The sliding thing can be useful and annoying. Especially as WM tries to keep it even. I tried to offset it massively once so that i could transfer a file to the PPC and then off but every-time i went into the app after changing the ratio WM would shift it back to the middle.

I am actually going to ask you to finish up in your next reply cause this is waaaaay OT and it is a POS vs PPC debate (all-be-it a decently discussed one)

[benixau]

Originally posted by Spiral
so point me where I have "knocked" (I would this has a similar meaning to bash/flame) Benixau. Al contrario, I quite enjoy talking to him.

thankyou and the same. You are actually level headed (verses some PPC users that hang around ("foo" on PIC).

[Spiral]

Some ppc's (only Toshiba e800 and Asus A620BT immediately come to mind) have 32 megabytes of rom, so it's enough to backup. (actually probably not for Toshiba since it has 128 megabytes of ram)

Originally posted by benixau
Now, the UX can do that backup thing out of the box - the PPC cant.

of course there's lots more ppc can do out of the box than palm os. Without 3rd party software, i consider ppc a far more "complete," os, even with sony additions factored in. But we're ending, so leave it a that.

Originally posted by benixau
The sliding thing can be useful and annoying. Especially as WM tries to keep it even. I tried to offset it massively once so that i could transfer a file to the PPC and then off but every-time i went into the app after changing the ratio WM would shift it back to the middle.
I don't really get why the OS just doesn't like you allocating too much to one side or the other. I can see why it's bad to allocate too much to either one, but why it snaps back to the middle, which is rather inconvenient at times is beyond me too. However, when running huge programs, that dynamic ram really is useful. (so it comes at no real surprise to me that OS6 has dynamic ram)

Originally posted by benixau
I am actually going to ask you to finish up in your next reply cause this is waaaaay OT
End. Nice talking to you :)

[benixau]

Originally posted by Spiral

Nice talking to you :)

You too. Someday maybe we will meet in person and continue this. :)

[Dougf]

This is the best discussion I have ever read regarding Palm vs. Pocket PC. I consider myself a techie, but a very limited one. You both have an excellent knowledge of both OS's inside and out. I guess this is why I prefer Palm though....simple. There was alot to learn to make PPC operable for me for everyday use. I use to cringe if it would crash because of numerous occasions of losing my input for the day. My PDA is first and foremost my calendar, phone book, and to do list, everything else comes second. You are right that the 1900 came out about 2 years ago, and there are advancements.....the crash thing that is still complained about no matter which unit scares me from purchasing one. Palm has never given me that feeling. And nobody is knocking anyone nor anything on this thread, this has been an extremely well researched, intelligient conversation between 2 people that know these devices and OS's very well. I personally wouldn't mind if this whole discussion continues.

[fearlessfozz]

I like the PPC for the today screen and for the built in word and excel. But the built in stuff was limited, and since I have always been a palm guy I didn't want to spend lots of money trying to find suitable programs. I already had quick office for the UX.

But I will always have the PPC for some things, like using pocket word to make illustrations that are protable straight to word. I also like the better outlook address features.

The UX has better stuff too, like I love the todo list over ppc, its just easier to use. And the UX has a much higher cool factor, huge with the women over here :p

[benixau]

I did like to today screen and its plug-ins. BUT - it just got too crowded sometimes. For me it ended up scrolling to today screen which looked really ugly.

My 4350 got a lot of wows, oooos and ahhhhs, BUT - even though my PDA does crash (I am a beta tester for several people as I can slow my proc down to 32Mhz (thanks ClieKun)) I find it easier to get back up and running.

I gtg shopping but i will continue later