Digitizer issue re-post

[gunhed]

On my TH55, when I had the one MF screen protector on, I began getting a weird digitizer issue. For me the issue resulted in missed taps and poor writing accuracy.

One reliable way to show if the problem exists is to attempt to tap a grid of dots in Free Notes.

These are typical results from my TH55.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/swam-pert/clie/digispokessm.jpg
Full size pic (contains both screen shots): digispokes.jpg (http://www3.sympatico.ca/swam-pert/clie/digispokes.jpg)

On my unit, with the MF removed the test case never shows any of the spurious lines. Please note I have tried only the one MF unit and did not try any others.

When making physical changes while testing the problem, such as removing or putting on a screen protector, you must wait 15 minutes or more for the digitizer to acclimatize to the change before re-testing for the problem.

Judie (not Julie) at the-gadgeteer.com also saw the problem on her test TH55 (credit: eltaino for the heads up and link).
the-gadgeteer.com (http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/judiesgear.html) (scroll down to the 03-11-2004 entry).

Judie referred to the lines as "spokes of a wagon wheel".

Very little is known about the cause of the problem. In my short email conversation with Judie last night, her assessment is that in her case there is at least some digitizer involvement. In my case the particular screen protector I had on was definitely a factor. My digitizer may have a latent issue, but what I know is that with the screen either bare or with the WriteRight protector on I do not experience the problem.

For the record I do not think the problem is specific to MF and this is borne out by experiences of other people who have run into the issue. It does not mean that you will experience the issue if you have the same brand of screen protector on as any of us who saw the problem.

But what do I know? If others can post your experiences either way we'll have a better pool of data points to draw from and perhaps get a better handle on the size of the problem.

Thanks everyone.

[edit: fixed pic formatting]

[joejoe]

Ooops, sorry I got Judie's name wrong in another post.

As I mentioned at that time, I used my unit for several weeks without a digitizer problem & no screen protector. After applying the MF last night, I replicated the writing plus the "dots" test. I found mild but clear evidences that putting on the MF *did* somehow affect the digitizer.

Since I had read the post about problems before putting on the protector, I was exceptionally careful in putting it on & smoothing oh so gently with a credit card.

Since I haven't tested my TH55 with any other screen protector, I can't say if this problem is unique to the MF or not. Either way, my problem is so mild that I'll keep my protector on for the time being until I can test it more carefully.

[_VincentB_]

Hi,

I got exactly the same problem as Mr gunhed and Judie :) with a Brando screen protector.

Same resolution ... the digitizer worked properly after removing the screenprotector AND wait 15 minutes. (the test failed right after removing, you have to wait a certain period of time).

Guys THE TRUTH IS ELSEWHERE !

Now I have ordered a MF to see the behaviour ! Hope it will work !!!!

[jjthe2]

The problem is the digitizer thinks you are pressing at two points simultaneously, that's obvious from the pattern you show. In this case the other point is where the spokes converge. You can try this by simply two places on the screen at the same time, and you'll get a very similar problem.

But what's causing it? My guess would be the screen protector is not sitting perfectly on the screen, and pressing on it causes some point to press harder into the screen. Maybe the protector is very slightly warped? Or possibly there is a small particle that is trapped that activates the digitizer when you press (although I imagine you would be able to see it).

I have the boxwave protector and haven't had this problem. It looks fantastic, hundreds of times better than writerights.

[rldunn]

Thanks for reposting this - I promise I won't delete this one ;)

As for the problem, I have an ARM screen protector on and just did the grid dot test without a problem.

[broadus]

Originally posted by jjthe2
. . . .
I have the boxwave protector and haven't had this problem. It looks fantastic, hundreds of times better than writerights.

I put a BoxWave on my TH55 but found that my display was noticeably less clear. Under florescent lights in my office, the anti-glare seemed to disperse the glare over the whole protector, making the display significantly less readable. Have you noticed anything like this?

BTW, can the digitizer be messed up by applying too much pressure with a credit card in attempting to get out bubbles during installation of the protector?

[jjthe2]

I agree that under some lighting the display get a little hazy, but I would call it hardly noticeable. The only thing I'm comparing it to is the writerights which are much worse. Has anyone used both the Martin Field's and the Boxwave?

Originally posted by broadus


I put a BoxWave on my TH55 but found that my display was noticeably less clear. Under florescent lights in my office, the anti-glare seemed to disperse the glare over the whole protector, making the display significantly less readable. Have you noticed anything like this?

BTW, can the digitizer be messed up by applying too much pressure with a credit card in attempting to get out bubbles during installation of the protector?

[robinson]

Boy, I'm glad I found this post. All of the sudden my graffitti writing is aweful, and all sorts of screen artifacts. I thought it was Graffitti Anywhere or the new The GoGo english version.

Did the dot test with the new Brando screensaver I put on and I have this issue. Too.
Bummer.
What is the ARM brand of screensaver?
Scott

[broadus]

I included this question with a post above, but let my try again.

How much pressure can one place on the digitizer with a credit card getting out bubbles when applying the protector? Must one be very careful? Can too much pressure impact the digitizer?

Thanks.

[joejoe]

New test! Anyone can get digi-spokes on any Clie device (I tested on a 615, 665 & 300), in any graphical program (CliePaint, Diddlebug, etc.) with or without a screen protector. Yes, without a protector. All you need is a Clie, two stylus & someone to help.

Both of you touch the screen at exactly the same time. What happens & is 100% reproducible is that a line or artifact will appear on the screen!

So, what does this mean? It means, as some have already guessed, that if the screen protector is applied to a screen that is not totally free of even invisible dust such spokes will appear. Oddly enough, they will not go from touch-point to touch-point but they will appear radiating from one towards the other.

Given that the MF protector is slightly more rigid than the WR, for example, it probably reacts more to even the slightest bit of dust. I imagine that any protector of the same kind would do the same thing.

And when I said, earlier in this thread, that my problem was "mild," I meant that I have to do 4-5 dot tests & even more writing tests to get digi-spokes. This doesn't present a problem at this point but when I decide to clean the MF, I will be extra cautious about cleaning both my screen & the protector.

[retrobits]

I can reproduce this problem with my boxwave protector. My patterns are almost **exactly** the same as shown at the beginning of the thread, with sevarl large and small spokes originating from the center of the screen. How likely is it that my "invisible dust" ended up at the same spot? It is strange though that at least one person with a boxwave is not seeing this problem. Maybe some digitizers are more likely to be affected than others? I've ordered an ARM protector and will report my results once it arrives.

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

Based on the images at the start of this thread, and the subsequent posting by "retrobits", I would like to offer this theory:

I think what is happening is that after the screen protector is applied, some factor is causing it to "shrink". This, of course, would pull the center of the Clie digitizer plastic inward, sort of "pushing" it into the center of the screen. This is the only physical phenomenon that I can think of that would cause not one, but two separate users to report the same "radiating lines from the center of the screen" problem. Maybe the boxwave protector is sensitive to moisture or heat? Just guessing here...

Best wishes,
Bawko

[Unregistered]

Belkin Clear Screen Overlays. Did not have a problem with the test. I ran it twice. Hope this helps. DEPRET

[jjthe2]

I was the one who said it didn't happen with my boxwave. After much more testing I can sometimes get a spoke pattern, it takes 4-5 tests to get one line. I have to hold the stylus at each dot for a second or two in the test to get the spoke. It never happens with quick tapping. I still think it must be something under the protector, or some kind of deformation of the protector because my intersection does not occur at the exact location pictured above. It is still near the center, but about a centimeter to the right of the where the above intersection occurs.

[glass9876]

I had this a similar behaviour with my old SJ30. I realised that the protector was not correctly put, thus lifting the case from the display a little bit. I cant remember if the device did not even turn on. Anyway, a removal and replaceing of the same protector helped...

[broadus]

After some serious washing with soft soap and warm water and allowing my BoxWave to air dry in the bathroom, I applied it to the replacement TH55 which I received yesterday from Dell. Doing the dot test in free notes, every thing is as it should be. No digitizer spokes.

[retrobits]

hi broadus,

I'd be interested in your results after a few days of carrying your th55 around in your pocket or whatever. In other words, after letting the protecter settle in a few days, going through a few cooling and warming cycles, then run the test again.

hopefully I'll be able to give my ARM protector a try on Mon or Tues....

[broadus]

Originally posted by retrobits
hi broadus,

I'd be interested in your results after a few days of carrying your th55 around in your pocket or whatever. In other words, after letting the protecter settle in a few days, going through a few cooling and warming cycles, then run the test again.

hopefully I'll be able to give my ARM protector a try on Mon or Tues....

Retrobits,

I'll be glad to. If a few days pass and I've had typical senior moments and have forgotten, just post a reminder. Thanks.

[LeggNet]

Getting the problem occasionally with an ARM protector...

Question: Has anyone had this problem without a screen protector on the device??

Cheers, Rich

[LeggNet]

Since removing my ARM protector yesterday, I only had this occur once (about 20 minutes after removal). Nothing since then.

I really believe this is related to the harder style protectors (Brando, ARM, etc.). I sent an email to Judie (Gadgeteer Extraordinaire) and got this reply:

Rich,

I corresponded with Simon, also from the CLIÉ Source forums, and this is what I told him: “I DID have a Martin Fields screen protector on the TH55 when I first noticed the problem, but I also had the problem after I had removed it (once I realized that the hard reset did not work and was packing it to send back to Sony).

I think my problem may be from something different as when I was on the phone with Tech support we found that dimming my backlight caused the problem to lesson. So I tend to think that while the protector *might* contribute to the digitizer problem, at least in my case there really was a digitizer problem.”

Hopefully I will have my CLIÉ back next week, and I can continue testing on it.

Regards,

Judie :0)

I wonder if she didn't give it enough time to 'aclimate' after removing the protector.

My solution for now, treating the screen with Displex (or maybe Zymol if I can find it) on a weekly basis.

Cheers, Rich

[gunhed]

Originally posted by LeggNet
I wonder if she didn't give it enough time to 'aclimate' after removing the protector.Rich, I wondered this as well and mentioned it when I replied to Judie's email. It didn't change her mind, so I'm assuming she took the delay into account - especially since I know she had read the original digitizer thread where we first mentioned the delay effect.

retrobits, good luck with the ARM. If you get positive results from it that will be hope for me. I want to try it, but have not ordered mine yet.

In the meantime I'm still using the WriteRight. The clarity is not great, but this is less of an issue with the TH55 than it would have been on my old T665C. Writing feel, though not perfect, is good by me.

[fish tank]

I also have problem with the Boxwave screen protector. The same problem occurred as soon as I put it on the unit. I even tried to install it from different angles/directions, hoping to get it to work, but no luck. :-(

Took the unit off, wait over night, then tried again, same problem. Once I took it off the unit, everything went back to normal.

Seems like both Martin Fields and ARM protectors also have the same issue......are we out of luck with screen protectors for TH-55????

[DBoyScout]

How are you guys getting your MF protectors OFF, without damaging anything? Also, is there a safe & effective way to wash them? (since I kind of messed up one of them in the two pack, during the initial application)

Thanks!

[doboy]

I have the Sony screen protector on my unit, which was applied about 2 wks ago, and I don't have any problems. I dotted about 200-300 dots in the Freenotes without any problems. The Sony protector is relatively thick so I'm sure they are similar to MF and others. I know that I don't have much dust trapped if any because I previous had an overlay type protector on it and I carefully removed it as I was applying the Sony one so that all the dusts were stuck to the one I was removing. So I don't know if I have no problems because I'm using Sony protector or because I have no dust particles stuck under the protector.

[retrobits]

In addition to the occasional digitizer inaccuracies, I had been noticing for some time some wierd distortion near the middle of my screen, but dismissed it. It can only be seen by tilting the th55 at the right angle with bright light from above. It was about 3 cm long, 1.5 cm wide, like a rectangle with rounded corners and has "multicolored" concentric rings due to white light refracting through it. I assumed I had installed my screen protector (boxwave) incorrectly (getting moisture or oil underneath) or maybe some of the adhesive was moving around under there, pooling up in the middle.

Last night, I removed my protecter to do some freenote dot testing and found that the distortion remained after the protector was removed. Furthermore, cleaning had no effect. It looked like a little oil slick right in the center area of the screen. Then, to my amazement, it slowly disappeard over about 30 minutes or so. I could see it slowly growing smaller, until it was about the size of a grain of rice, then gone altogether. As I watched this happen, I tested in freenotes. Surprise, surprise... the digitizer problem grew less and less severe and finally disappeared altogether when the visual distortion was completely gone.

I assume that the distortion is due to the screen being morphed into a new shape (either raised or indented? ...probably raised) by the expanding and contracting of the screen protector as it warms and cools and pulls on the edges of the screen.

The bottom line is that after spending close to $50 trying various screen protectors I'm ready to forget the protection altogether. I'm also afraid that leaving a screen protector on the device for a long period of time will permanently morph the screen. I may investigate the Zymol wax solution that others are recommending.

[sharpja]

I had the A.R.M. protector on as well, and had the same problem. I removed it and the digitizer issue went away. So what protectors don't do this to the Clie?

-james

[sharpja]

I am registered!

[DBoyScout]

Originally posted by doboy
I have the Sony screen protector on my unit, which was applied about 2 wks ago, and I don't have any problems. I dotted about 200-300 dots in the Freenotes without any problems. The Sony protector is relatively thick so I'm sure they are similar to MF and others. I know that I don't have much dust trapped if any because I previous had an overlay type protector on it and I carefully removed it as I was applying the Sony one so that all the dusts were stuck to the one I was removing. So I don't know if I have no problems because I'm using Sony protector or because I have no dust particles stuck under the protector.

I have this SAME EXACT thing with my MF protector. I am ready to take mine off. HOW did you get yours off without ruining everyting?

Thanks!

[sharpja]

I just used my fingernail with the ARM, but it wasn't easy at all! Fortunately, fingernail material is soft enough to not harm the screen.

-James

[joejoe]

I've noticed something quite different.

Earlier I said I had a "mild" problem with the MF protector on & that it took 5-10 tests to reproduce. Well, I can no longer reproduce it even if I put a couple of hundred teeny, tiny dots on my Freenotes screen & then write a long note on top of that.

Really weird &, hey, I'm not complaining. Maybe in my case it simple "got used to" the protector. I'm happy that's the case since it's so clear that I don't notice it's there except for the fact that I need to press harder to write.

[DBoyScout]

How long have you had the MF on, before it started to 'normalize'?

[broadus]

This thread, as well as the first posting of it, has been going on a bit, so what I'm about to suggest may already been done and I've forgotten. If so, just attribute it to the increasing frequency of my senior moments.

After I applied the BoxWave ClearTouch to my TH55, while I didn't have the spokey digitizer issue, I did notice that where the stylus touched the screen in the lower left quadrant was a little off from where the writing or the dots was being produced on the screen in free notes. I went back to the "Welcome" and re-did the digitizer process, which solved my problem. Could any of these other problems be solved with doing this?

I realize that anyone who does a hard reset would have done this, and I also realize that probably everyone has thought about this, but just in case . . . .

BTW, mine is still doing well with the BoxWave.

[joejoe]

Originally posted by DBoyScout
How long have you had the MF on, before it started to 'normalize'?

I put it on on 3/18. The only thing I can say with certainty is that it does not produce the artifacts which I noticed earlier, no matter how many times I have tried since my very first tests.

Having read these threads before I put it on, I cleaned my screen meticulously with a soft camera cloth & was *super* gentle when applying it, then using only the slightest pressure with a credit card to eliminate the "bubbles."

Maybe that's the trick or maybe I'm just lucky.

[JHVanOphem]

I'm breaking out of lurk mode to make my first post!

I've seen this problem as well on my TH55, and I'm also using the MF protector.

However its not a major problem for me. There was the one day when I was getting a lot of spokes similar to the picture at the beginning of this thread, but I've tried to reproduce it and failed.

If I do the dot test I will get maybe one spike now. and then no matter how much I hit dots in the exact same area of the screen it won't spike again.

I think it is possible that things have "normalized" after awhile?

I'll keep trying it out and see if anything like cold or warmth makes any difference.

[robinson]

Sounds like its a thermal expansion issue, and related to temperature.

Differential expansion between the overlay and the plastic covering over the screen glass, cause the bond to be in either tension or compression (like a glaze on the surface of a piece of pottery).
When the screen protector pulls inwards, it causes the protector to put pressure on the screen "somewhere" in the center, plus where ever the stylus hits.
This simultaneous 2-point taps, causes the lines instead of dots.

Tough to describe, but I bet thats it.

Try moving your Clie to somewhere cold for a few minutes and test. Then allow to equalize to room temp.

Then move to an area that is warmer than normal.
Scott

[jja]

I did have this problem before and it was very serious that 2 out of 5 characters I wrote using Graffiti 1 became unexpected characters (especially the back-erase, the more I tried to erase, the more unexpected characters appeared as a result of the erase.....)

I then referred to some discussion in Taiwan's forum. They said it may be due to the pressure when applying screen protector. (And I recalled I did push it a little bit hard when I applied the screen protector for the first time)

I then did the following:
- Pulled the screen protector up for about 4/5 screen (not completely removed because it's hard for me to align the edges) and put it back very gently with almost no pressure
- Pulled the screen protector up from the other side for about 1/4 screen (to make sure the whole screen protector had been re-applied with less pressure), and again, put it back very gently with almost no pressure
- note that I just pulled it up then put it back immediately without waiting for any period of time.

Then, it worked like a charm! It has been 3 weeks and not even one single unexpected stroke appears. So far so good. I can write Graffiti as fast as I can.

Hope this helps (if you can understand my English)

[rabuf]

my digitizer problem has disappeared (knock on wood)! i've done nothing w/ the screen protector, and so i'm leaning towards to "acclimated" camp.

3/5/04 - recieved TH55
3/7/04 - bought and used Belkin screen protectors as temp until MF came
3/12/04 - MF came in and applied it the same day (after about 5 attempts b/c of lint)

during this time, noticed occassional digitizer problems, but they were so minor that i thought it was just me getting used to Graffiti 2.

3/18/04 - read post on CS re: digitizer problem and conducted test on FreeNotes. ran into some minor problems. about 3 or 4 small "spokes" and maybe 1 long "spoke." not a serious problem and therefore didn't really think about it.
3/19/04 - small dots test on FreeNotes again. same result.
3/25/04 (today) - small dots test again. no spokes. repeated the test 3 times w/o any spokes.

after 2 weeks of using MF, the problems seems to have disappeared. i will try the test again later and will post if i have spokes reappear.

bye bye...

[pacer]

This dot idea in freenotes is great.

I'm having a problem after applying an ARM that around the middle of the screen I have to apply quite a touch more pressure to click on buttons etc etc

Doing this dot thing makes it clear that the protector feels bubbled or arced a little over that part of the screen.

Think I need to order another and have another go at reapplying. Think I'll order a couple because it takes so damn long to get to Australia :)

Alex

[_VincentB_]

Guys,

I really don't believe that temperature would impact at all.

We are not using our clie in extreme conditions and Sony is intelligent enought to develop devices that works under a broad temperature range.

I think, it is a digitizer technology issue.

They are using a thinner one therefore when you apply a screenprotector on it (all brand have fixed size) you create a surface tension that cause to trigger the contact between you dot and a particular point of the screen (the center of the surface tension / weak point of the surface).

I think it is a SONY BUG.

I have tried BRANDO and MF, both are causing the problem.

Now I will try one last screenprotector (COVERTEC coming soon). If it not working I give up and don't use any screenprotector.
I am tired of that !

Right now the problem is getting worst (as someone mentionned)!
It is messing up 1 stroke out of 4 (with G1).

Hardly impossible to do a backspace with G1.


Let me know what you think about my theory but the TH55 is the 3rd PDA and I have never faced/seen this problem before !

[krypticide]

I wouldn't call it a bug...and one can't expect Sony to incorporate all screen protectors into the design of their screen. Unfortunately, I just think so of you are just unlucky. My MF screen protector works just fine.

[joejoe]

Originally posted by krypticide
I wouldn't call it a bug...and one can't expect Sony to incorporate all screen protectors into the design of their screen. Unfortunately, I just think so of you are just unlucky. My MF screen protector works just fine.

I tend to agree. It doesn't seem reasonable, IMO, for Sony to test their units with all screen protectors since many people, maybe most, use it without such protection.

And if it were required to test with screen protectors, how about with different cases or lids to make certain that *they* did not somehow negatively impact the use of the TH55?

I'm much more interested, personally, in Sony addressing the real software issues (CO problems, anyone?) & the IR beam receive issue. These are things that one should reasonably *expect* to work since they involve only the unit and no 3rd party software or accessory add-ons.

[si-smiley]

Might be a bit late to join the debate of the screen protector issues.

I had the same problems described by everyone else from day one with my screen protector a PDair make that i bought from e-bay.

At first i did not know what was happening just thought it was me not being used to the new G2. But after reading this thread it seems i have fallen fowl to this problem.

My question is has anyone tried sony's on branded screen protector and if so does it make any difference.

for now i'll be trying to reapply it with less presure failing that, it looks like i'll have to do with out one which is a shame cos i don't won't want to scratch the nice screen.

Thanks Simon

[wusen]

I used several brands of screen protector since Palm V and Sony's has got to be the worst. I made several scratches on it on the first day just by writing with stock stylus.

[musk]

Wusen, was your Sony protector for the TH55 and did you notice the digitizer issue while it was on?

[musk]

Ok, you can count me in on the digitizer madness too. Frankly, it's been driving me nuts. I'm a die-hard screen protector advocate for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that I frequently use my fingernail as a makeshift stylus (I can retrain myself, but I'd just as soon not have to).

I have just been running for a number of days without any protector on my TH55. The only time I experienced the digitizer issue during this time was immediately after removing the makeshift Brando screen protector I first had on it [1]. After a 10-minute readjustment, I have been unable to reproduce the problem on the naked screen.

After applying a brand new Brando today, the problem initially didn't exist. After a period to adjust though (was at least an hour), the problem is back in a major way. I'd say that 10-15% of my dots lead to spokes during testing.

I really like the Brando protector, but at this point I just need to find something decent that will work with the TH55. The results so far seem so varied I don't know what that might be. I've tried to compile everyone's experiences, including my interpretation of the severity of their issue.

[Product - Severity (Member)]

MF - Major (gunhed)
MF - very minor (joejoe)
MF - Major (DBoyScout)
MF - minor (JHVanOphem)
MF - minor (rabuf) - turned to none
Brando - Major (_VincentB_)
Brando - Major (robinson)
Brando - Major (musk)
Boxwave - very minor (jjthe2)
Boxwave - Major (retrobits)
Boxwave - None (broadus)
Boxwave - Major (fish tank)
ARM - None (rldunn)
ARM - Major (sharpja)
ARM - minor (LeggNet)
Belkin - None (Unreg)
Sony - None (doboy)
Unknown - Major (jja) - turned to none after reapplication
PDair - Major - si-smiley

I am also going to try jja's reapplication trick, and will report if things get any better.

[1] The "makeshift Brando" was fashioned from my T615's--it was pitted and didn't cover the whole screen.

[joejoe]

My very minor turned to "none." Just for the records...

[si-smiley]

Hi everyone just thought i'd let you know i tried reaplying the my screen protector with less presure and it seems to have done the trick. ONly bee 2 days since i reapplied but it looks good so far. done the test in free notes and zero problems.

c ya

Si

[musk]

Well, I left my Brando on for a week, during which I tried jja's reapplication trick to no avail. I finally took it off, as no protection is better than crippled Grafitti and accidentally pushing random dialog buttons. I may try another screen protector in the future, and if my fate changes, I'll let everyone know.

I realize this isn't Sony's "fault" (as in shoddy QA), but it does seem to be a result of something different with the TH55's digitizer. I suppose this new digitizer may be responsible for the thinness of the TH55 and/or its very reasonable price-tag. I do hope it doesn't mean it's more fragile in general. This may all be something worth pointing out to potential new purchasers.

Having used my TH55 for a good month now, I'd have to say this is the only negative I've been able to find with it. It's just a splendid PDA overall.

[shifeng]

So has anyone's problem with the digitizer solved ?... mine had the Martin Fields protector for two weeks and i still can get spookes very often.

And i realised it might have something to do with the temperature. I live in Singapore and the weather here is rather warm. When i'm in the office with aircon, i noticed that i get spookes more often than when i'm at home without aircon.....

I love the clear MF protector very much but i'm also very disturbed by the spookes. And i can't bear to leave my screen naked with any protector.... :(

[Ce]

Perhaps it's been said before...than I would make an apology for making a double post....but I got my European Th55 today and on the screen was a warningnote from Sony when using a screenprotector. I Quote:

"if you install a vinyltype screen protector, be careful not to use excessive pressure when applying the screenprotector to your Clie handheld screen. Do not use a flat edged instrument, such as a credit card, to smooth out air bubbles from beneath the protective screen. Doing so could cause the digitizer to not work properly and may also casue a moire pattern to appear. If such problems do occur, remove the screen protector and do not use your clie handheld for a day or so. This may resolve the problem.

For details on applying a screenprotector, refor to: www.clie-link.com/ " end of quote.

As I said, sorry when it's been posted before..but the thread about this issue are getting pretty long to read it all.

Carel

[PDAJah]

I just applied this make of screen protector:

http://www.spug.net/reviews/recfilm.htm

This ECFILM Pro seems to make the screen a little dimmer but can be applied with very little pressure. I've not had any probelms yet - you need to apply a little bit more pressure to activate options but the hand writting (Ducama) is much easier to use because of the "paper" like quality of the Ecfilm Pro. Bought this even though my MFOP was on order as I have heard there are problems with this type of protector.

[edx]

I'm not sure if this is available on other Sony's websites but it has been announced on Sony Japan's website that this is a problem with the TH55 screen and is not a problem of the screen protectors. This is the link to the official annoucement (in Japanese), http://www.nccl.sony.co.jp/products/common/info28.html

[gunhed]

shifeng: Short of replacing your TH55 the only way to solve the problem is to take off the offending protector. Don't torture yourself.

Heck, I had to stop using a PDair case I bought from Brando because the clips apparently exert enough lateral pressure on the digitizer to bring on the spokes! Brando was kind enough to let me return the case in exchange for a Syncdicator cable and a 3-in-1 stylus.

There is an alternative to going 'naked'. Use a screen protector that does not produce the issue. I use the (much-maligned) WriteRight. I know these are not particularly well regarded amongst the members here - I know of only one other member (sorry I did not note your name) who uses them and we two may be the only ones! - but they work well enough for me and do not produce the issue.

I may try the protector mentioned by PDAJah or perhaps the ARM, but past evidence seems to indicate either one will be a long shot.

musk: Thanks for summarizing the findings.

Moderators: This thread is apparently getting long enough in the tooth (as well as physically) to be an annoyance to some folks when it keeps surfacing from time to time. As the starter may I suggest that it be locked up and linked to from rldunn's anchor thread.

[cbhiii]

I am using the Global Source protector on my TH-55 and it seems to be working just fine.

Before I put it on, I used my unit without one for about a month. You do have to push a little harder with the protector on, but nothing excessive like the warning would be talking about.

[MrNako]

I couldnt find any screen protectors for my TH55 but I found some cheap ones for a palm m130, so I took two of them and crop it to the size of the screen of my TH, there's a line in the middle where both halfs join together but the digitizer works perfectly fine in there, I read on the sonys manual that I shouldnt use a credit card to put a screen protector but how was i supossed to take the bubbles out? So I did use a credit card.

Now that I saw this thread I went immediately to freenotes and made the test, it worked fine. What fails sometimes is Decuma, as I am writing sometimes the letters appear with those lines as if there was another stylus tapping another part of the screen, then is when I get wrong letters in decuma, I dont know if it is for writing to fast.

[broadus]

After a few months with no spokes, I jotted some notes a couple of days ago and was surprised to see the out-of-control lines appear. I use a BoxWave protector. I have no idea why the spokes suddenly appeared, and I had trouble reproducing them. I don't use the Freenotes as often as other members appear to, though.

[TH55 Mk 0 Mod 1]

I have found the final, ultimate method for making this disappear... it works with ANY brand ( I have tried this method with MF, ARM, Brando, Boxwave, and the Sony)

As follows:

1) Clean the screen in a dust-free enviroment with a soft glass cleaning cloth... make sure to also clean the edges. Hold at an angle to the light to check for dust particles...

2) When it is totally clean, apply the protector with only the LIGHTEST pressure... do NOT use those cards to apply them... you can get all the bubbles out just by applying it with a soft nudge with the cleaning cloth... the key is applying it a quarter inch at a time... works very well... just do it slowly and softly...

3) After application, rerun the digitizer setup program (see the manual for where to do that)

4) That's it...

I've tried this with the following brands:

Martin Fields Overlay Plus
ARM Kit
Brando Protector
Boxwave Protector
Sony Screen Protector

I've applied and used each for 2 weeks, did the spoke test every 2nd day... never had spokes with ANY of them. The key is applying them softly and without dust..

Go ahead, try it...

[SnoopyGirl]

I put on a screen protector I had bought for my T665.
http://www.pdascreenprotectors.com/index.htm
It's one of those that slides underneath the edges. It's a tad too short for the TH55. There's about 1/8" gap at the bottom. Anyway, I was having those wacky digitizer issues. I could barely get my taps to register at all along the right side. I removed the protector and that didn't help! Ack! So, I put it back on GENTLY and reset the digitizer in the prefs and it seems to work OK now.

Has anybody found that pressing sort of hard on the screen causes permanent damage to the digitizer?

Will it wreck my screen if I have to tap a little harder than usual?

[ID Engineer]

I have had no trouble at all with my Brando UltraClear protector. I was able to apply it without using major pressure, just some localized stylus pressure to minimize a couple small bubbles.

[musk]

SnoopyGirl, did you give the screen a chance to "acclimate" after removing the protector? Some have found that it takes about 10 mins or so for a newly applied protector to start causing the spoking issue, and likewise a short time for it to get back to "normal" after removal.

[Abednego]

Well, it seems like I have to add my comments too.

Some months ago I got me a Brando (normal) protector and put it on the screen of my TH55. No spokes, no probs. Then I scratched my protector (good thing it was on) with some laboratory tool at work and had to replace it. The only protector I had handy was an ARM that Yun from GlobalSource had kindly sent me as a freebie together with my metal hard case. I put the ARM on (end of July - quite hot weather) and instantly got spokes "en masse". Blaming them on the protector, I got me an Ultraclear from Brando (which took plenty of time to ship). After replacing the ARM with the Brando, I still got spokes.

About an hour ago, I finally removed the Brando - which didn't stop my digitizer "spoking". After removing it I noted - like retrobits - a distorted area in the middle of my screen with multicolored "oil-film-like" borders. Over the course of about 40 minutes this area got smaller and eventually disappeared - no spoking since. At this point I was intrigued and started searching 1src for infos - thus stumbling upon this thread.

My conclusion:
If you apply a "stick on"-protector (like Brando, ARM, MF and the likes) under warm conditions and its surface "bonds" strongly with the digitizer sheet of the TH555's screen (e.g. due to applied pressure while putting it on or other surface conditions), you will get spokes - at least when the environment is cooler then during application.
As a workaround I would suggest putting on the protector in a cool environment and - as already has been stated by others - use only gentle pressure for some time after application.

I'll try (as soon as I get my Brando Ultraclear washed) and tell you of the results.

So long,
Abed

[Take1]

Interestingly, I'm using the brando crystal clear and have not had any digitizer problems for the past two weeks it's been on my device. In fact I notice no loss in sensitivity, nor did I have to recalibrate the screen after installation -- it works fantastic! I read about how the Brando brand tended to be one of the worst in regards to the 'star' pattern issue. Perhaps they took customer complaints seriously and fixed the problem. :confused:

So far so good! :D

[DanT]

Thanks for this thread. It solves my puzzle and slight disappointment with the digitizer.

I bought expresscentre.com (EC) protector from ebay about 6 months ago. The price was reasonably cheap (cheaper than Fellows WriteRight) and the protector is very clear just like the WrightRight. However, the same digispokes appeared after a few days of use. :(

I noticed that every now and then my graffiti getting those crazy spikes like when I used BoxWave during my N760C days. Last month I read this thread and did that dotting test. Holy smokes, I got the digispokes on my TH55.

Today, after finally frustrated with the spikes and seeing this thread again, I decided to continue the test by removing the protector, did the dot test again w/o the screen protector, and installed a new EC protector with gentle rubbing over the protector (w/o using creditcard to get rid of the air bubbles as what I did in the past). Both the naked and the soft application of EC protector show no more digispoke. We'll see how long this digispoke-free graffiti writing last. Will report again later.

Back on my N760C days, the graffiti writing problem with BoxWave was explained to me by the manufacturer as the built-up of uneven surface tension after heavy usage of graffiti. His advice was to peel the BoxWave off and let it lay back on gently on the glass. My problem was, often dusts can get trapped on the glass and I ended up peeling the BoxWave completely, washing it, and reapplying it, which was a pain in the rear. That gentle reapplication did fix the problem for 3 days. In the end, I got tired of doing this twice a week. I went back to the good-old Fellows WriteRight.

The reason I tried BoxWave was because of the great report I read in various websites about it and I ran out of that 12 WriteRight protectors after 2 years.

I found BoxWave was kind of cloudy, not as clear as WriteRight, and way expensive.

On the other hand, the WriteRight is too soft and after 2 months of use I ended up with marks (dots and scratches). But I would definitely rather have those dots and scratches than this digispokes for sure.

[DanT]

EC protector did the same thing. Trash it went.

Bought WriteRight. Put them on both of my TH55/U and TH55/E1. No digispoke so far after 3 days. We'll see how long that last.

[Cyker]

What we need is something like the ARM, or some other very hard, very thin bit of plastic, that is non-adhesive I reckon.

[laolita]

I just upgraded to a TH55 and applied the Proporta screen protector... which is quite close to that description of hard and non-adhesive.

Now I am also getting the star patterns. Like others, I used little pressure to apply it (having read the Sony warning). Otherwise I like the Proporta screen protector. I don't like vinyl ones because of the friction they offer the stylus. The Proporta is quite hard plastic and is washable (I guess not adhesive as such).

One other 'new' piece of information is this is not a TH55 only issue. I suffered from this in the graffiti area on one or more of my old Palms (I started with a Palmpilot Professional around 1997 and went through a P3 and then to a P3XE (cannablizing several 'second hand' japanese IBM (P3) Workpad's in the process).

I was using Scotch tape as a screen protector for the graffiti area of those Palms.