TV Card Recommendation

[Unregistered]

G'day all,

Firstly, I apologise if this question has been asked before. I tried searching 'TV Card', but got an error message saying the minimum would have to be 3 characters.

I am looking into buying a TV card and was hoping if any of you can give me your advice as to which card you would recommend, or tell me any good or bad experiences with your present TV Card.

Am I correct to assume that the most hassle free method is to record a TV show in Mpeg 1 format, then convert it through Image Converter to my NX73? Is it as simple as that, or are there more steps than that?

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

[ncoday]

Originally posted by Unregistered
G'day all,

Firstly, I apologise if this question has been asked before. I tried searching 'TV Card', but got an error message saying the minimum would have to be 3 characters.

I am looking into buying a TV card and was hoping if any of you can give me your advice as to which card you would recommend, or tell me any good or bad experiences with your present TV Card.

Am I correct to assume that the most hassle free method is to record a TV show in Mpeg 1 format, then convert it through Image Converter to my NX73? Is it as simple as that, or are there more steps than that?

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

I will chime in with what I use:

Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350

Records TV into MPEG2 format and can also do radio capture. I have a radio tuner that I can listen to radio stations

I then use TMPEnc Plus to convert to MPEG1 and cut out commercials

[strider_mt2k]

That makes ME feel much better!

I just bought a Dell 8300 PC and a PVR-350!
Awsome card! (Awsome computer!)

I owned a few of Hauppauge's TV cards over the years, but this really is the coolest yet.

I have to second that suggestion!
From the research I've done the PVR350 is about the easiest way to do it.

It doesn't come cheap tho!
I paid about $170.00 for my PVR-350.

[luemas]

i have a win tv usb which works great and is external so works with both laptops and desktops and has radio aswell :) , id recommend it but u do still need to convert from mpeg2 to mpeg1.

Sam Blain

(p.s. great site ncoday)

[luemas]

i have a win tv usb which works great and is external so works with both laptops and desktops and has radio aswell :) , id recommend it but u do still need to convert from mpeg2 to mpeg1.

Sam Blain

(p.s. great site ncoday)

[PowderSausage]

Hi all, I'm the 'unregistered user' who posted the topic.

Thanks luemas, strider_mt2k and ncoday for your replies. Seems like you're having fun with your tv cards!

I noticed that your Hauppauges records in Mpeg 2 only. Was there any reason you chose to buy this card instead of one that could record in Mpeg 1?

Finally, do you or anyone else know if I purchased a TV Card that can record in Mpeg 1, will a direct conversion through Image Converter be possible/successful?

I'm sorry for the many questions as I'm so confused, but again thanks in advance everyone for your reading/advice/replies and for helping out a newbie.

[Karim]

If you wait a little, you can get a new [yet unreleased] ATI All-In-Wonder video card which will feature HDTV decoding. I personally would consider nothing less.

[tej]

The Hauppauge 250 and 350 both will record MPEG1 as well as MPEG2.

Scroll down towards the end of the below link to see:

http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datasheet.htm

Personally, I think the Hauppauge cards provide the best quality of video capture. The other nice thing about them is that they add almost no CPU overhead while encoding. The 350, with its hardware decoder adds almost no overhead while decoding, while the 250 cranks up the CPU for software decoding.

If you get one, go buy SageTV at http://www.sage.tv/ and a really, really big hard drive :) You can build your own Tivo.

[PowderSausage]

Thanks tej and Karim for your advice.

Karim; I got my Clie only after I purchased the 9800 Pro. Now I regret not having spent that extra bit more for the AIW instead. I'm hoping my card will last me another half/full year so for now I don't think I'll be considering purchasing a replacement card. But thanks again for your recommendation.

tej; Thank you for your info regarding the 250 and 350 being able to record in Mpeg 1 as well as Mpeg 2. Most everyone swears by the Hauppauges and I've yet to find anyone fault them so I'm most probably going to get myself one. But, now I'm even more confused.

ncoday; Why did you choose to record in Mpeg 2 then TMPEnc Plus then IC (3 steps) rather than record in Mpeg 1 then IC (2 steps)? Is a 2 step process even possible?

Thanks again in advance for your time and input.

Edited for grammar.

[ncoday]

Because the quality of the MPEG1 files that the 350 produces are not great quality.

Also, I don't use the software that comes with the card, I use SnapStream BeyondTV

[tej]

PowderSausage,

I wasn't planning on going into too much detail, but since I've seen that name over at Sudhian.com, I figure you can handle it :)

OK, I have a similar set-up to you: Shuttle SS51Gv1, Hauppauge Win-PVR-250, ATI AIW Radeon, driving a flat display via the DVI of the ATI card. (beautiful picture BTW, using DScaler which is built into SageTV). You don't need to upgrade your 9800 Pro if you are using the DVI out to drive your display.

The Hauppage cards will support MPEG1 capture, but the ability to do so depends on the software you are using. The Hauppauge cards come with WinTV2000, which is a very lame digital VCR software package, but does have the benefit of capturing in VCD format pretty easily.

Snapstream and SageTV both try to provide the "Tivo" experience on your PC, with pretty good results.

SageTV doesn't capture to VCD out of the box, but can do so by adding two lines to the INI file. Unfortunately, that support is still buggy, as trying to view that file back in SageTV causes it to crash, instead of playing back normally. However, the file saved on the hard drive plays back in Windows Media Player without any problems.

Let me give you an example. I modified my SageTV properties (INI) file by adding those two lines. I then told SageTV to record an episode of Futurama that was scheduled to start in 20 minutes. I then changed the default recording quality for that episode from default DVD to the one I added, VCD. SageTV started recording Futurama in the background. When I tried to watch the show while SageTV was still recording it, from within SageTV, the program crashed. Oops. Well anyways, on the hard drive, in my Videos directory, was an .mpg file. Clicking on it made it play (just fine) in Windows Media Player. I dragged the file over to Image Converter and it converted just fine. Nice two step process.

Of course, it might be easier to just get a Sony VR100K :D

[PowderSausage]

Thanks again ncoday for your reply.

So from what I've read so far, I can assume that I am able to record in Mpeg 1 and do a direct conversion to IC - unless its of such abysmal quality of which I'd have to take your route of Mpeg 2 to TMPenc to IC.

Quality isn't that important to me actually. I converted a music video through IC in 'normal' mode and to me that was highly acceptable. Hopefully recording in Mpeg 1 then IC 'normal' will yield similar/identical results.

Since the All In Wonder was mentioned - any users care to comment?

Thanks again!

[PowderSausage]

Wow, thanks tej for the detailed reply - and from a fellow Sudhianite/SS51 user too!

Seems like you've worked out the easiest way of recording programs to your Clie - thanks for sharing!

But, I agree too that the Sony VR100K looks more and more appealing. Only problem is that Sony Hong Kong doesn't carry it yet and are unsure of when, if ever, it will arrive :( .

tej, can you tell me how long does the entire process takes for say a one hour program?

Thanks again!

[Tim_axe]

This renewed my interest in a TV card. Does anyone know how much ATI's HDTV Wonder card will cost? I saw a review of it a while back, and the picture quality difference between HDTV and normal TV was incredible. So how far will ~$150-$200 go for cards with onboard compression/decompression hardware?

BTW, is Digital TV comparable to HDTV? I realize they are different, but in affordability I might have to compromise a bit and go for something cheaper...

-Tim_axe

[tej]

Originally posted by PowderSausage


tej, can you tell me how long does the entire process takes for say a one hour program?




Well I ran a test on a half-hour program. I had SageTV record a 30 minute program as MPEG1. Dragged it over to ImageConverter, and saved it to the hard drive (not directly to MS). Conversion time (high quality) ~20 minutes on a 2.4 GHz with 512K RAM. That's faster than 1:1 re-encoding, not bad at all. I then loaded both the MPEG1 and MQV files onto an MSPro via a USB 2.0 card reader, and renamed the files in Explorer. (SageTV won't play back the video, but doesn't crash either. :rolleyes: )

Actual hands-on time was minimal. A minute to tell SageTV what to record, and another minute to open Explorer and drag the file to ImageConverter, and click through the prompts. Then another minute to drag to the MSPro. With long pauses in between of course, waiting for the PC :)

Now the interesting part (information from Clie Movie Player 1.1 on UX50):

MPEG1 file specs:
Duration: 00:37:57
Bit Rate: V:1520/A:224 Stereo
Dimensions: 352 x 240
Data size: 396,765 KB

MQV files specs (high quality):
Duration: 00:30:00
Bit rate: V:384/A:128 Stereo
Dimensions: 320 x 240
Data size: 115,461 KB (less than 1/3rd the size of the original file)

Clie Movie Player seems to misread the duration of the MPEG1 file. Both MPEG1 and MQV files start and cut off at the same scenes, and while playing, Movie Player reports the correct end time of 00:29:59. I'm not sure if the MPEG1 file is VBR encoded, with may throw off the estimate. Or it could be a bug :)

Playback on a UX50 off a MSPro (Movie Player 1.1):
All playback tests were fullscreen, btw.

MQV: plays back at full speed (15 fps on HQ) with good quality during slow scenes, but the image quickly becomes very blocky and poor with any fast movement.

MPEG1: plays back at less than full speed (maybe 8-10 fps?) during slow scenes, and drops to maybe 2-4 fps (I'm guessing here) during quick movement. Image quality is better than the MQV file during slow scenes, but much better during fast scenes, with almost no blocking. But that comes at the expense of a slow frame rate.

Playback on a NX80 off same MSPro (Movie Player 1.0):

MQV: same as UX50.

MPEG1: Appears to play back at ~8-10 fps, both during fast and slow scenes. Certainly not as smooth as the MQV's 15 fps, but pretty good. Excellent picture quality during both slow and fast scenes, with no blocking, or severe frame-rate drop (as far as I can eyeball). Excellent detail as well.

Playback on a NX80 off Compact Flash card (using Movie Player 1.1 from the UX50):

MQV: not tested

MPEG1: About as good as off the MSPro.

The blockiness in the MQV file seems to be a factor of the encoding, not the processor/hardware.

Here's a nice link showing the limitations of this codec. Its a shame Sony didn't shoot for anything better, like Divx. I hate to say it, but I'd even prefer WMA :(

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=121163,00.asp

I was very surprised with the performance of the NX80. I had no idea it could handle such a high-bit rate, albeit at a slower framerate. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of file size. If you're willing to sacrifice picture quality, you can cut file size by a factor of 3 or even 6 with Standard Quality encoding.

If I get time, I'll try to tweak the capture settings in SageTV to see if I can capture MPEG1 at 320 x 240 and also cut back the bitrate. Movie Player might be able to keep up the framerate if it doesn't have to resize each frame....

[PowderSausage]

tej,

Fantastic info! Much much appreciation for your time/explanation and link.

I agree, the Movie Player misreading the duration of the Mpeg 1 is strange.

If I even had just 20% the knowledge that you have in this area I could do so much more with my NX73 in less time!

Can't wait to get my TV card at the end of the month.

If you don't mind, whats your log in name in Sudhian just so that I can thank you again should you be online?

Thanks again!